Just vote.
Who would you like to see win.
Total victory.
No in betweens.

Oh yeah, why do you feel this way?

P.S. How do you think Saddam or Osama would vote?

Win what?

If baseball I vote for the Red Sox.

Israel.

What are the alternatives?

The New Republic of Texas.

See poll.

I'm curious to see if anyone will explain why they would want a Palestinian Victory.

I would want the palestinians to win becuase that is the only way there will ever be peace in that part of the world. Then we could be fucking done with it and I wouldn't have to hear about it on the god damn news EVERY fucking night. If isreal did totally destroy the palestinians the other arab nations would just start a new plo type organization to try to get isreal. Don't you see that ? It will never end.

If the arabs felt the same way about us, would you prefer the same solution?
In the name of peace?

Israel.

I'm tired of hearing the Palestinians and their supporters whine.  They deserve to get their collective asses kicked.  

Let's see...

Arabs are responsible for killing thousands of my fellow citizens...[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/corky/smilies23.gif[/IMG]

I will soon be paying $2 a gallon for gas because of Arabs...[IMG]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/ups/kiss_my_ass/mad.gif[/IMG]

Hmmm, which will I choose?[IMG]http://www.duhspot.com/users/smiley/s/ups/hect0r/umph.gif[/IMG]

I was going to cast one vote each for the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost on the side of Israel, but I thought that might be 'ganging up' on the other side!

And a tad presumptuous of me, as well.[:D]

So I just voted once.

Eric The(Hosanna)Hun[>]:)]

No.

I figured that. [;)]

It's time to send the "Palestinians" back home to Jordon, Lebanon, and anywhere else these lying sacks of $hit came from.

Israel can be a major PITA sometimes but they need to prevail in all of this.  As for the Pal's not even the Arabs' states want them, so WTF do we do with them?

Israel, of course.

Interesting topic.  I think it's very clear by the statements people have made which side they have chosen.

IDF to PLO...
(spoken in my best Leon voice)
"Wake up! It's time to die...!"

I'm intrigued by the pro-Palestinian "stealth-voters".
I'm curious to hear their viewpoint.

correct me if i am wrong, but God did tell the Israelies to go Kill ALL of them like a really really long time ago.  i figure they are just getting around to doing what God says. [kill]

Israel was created using stolen land

Israel continues to push into and occupy (steal) more land

Israel has undue influence in American politics

Israel's current leader Sharrone (sp?) should be on trial for war crimes from a couple decades ago.

Sharrone, has the poor sense to continue down this path, even risking a two front war - cuz he know America is the only nation in world still be hind it.

My vote - let them go at each other. Convert to alternative sources of energy - and walk from the region.

Fuck 'em all.

C'mon SIX, just pick one.  You voted, which is it?

I believe God commanded King Solomon to go get 4,000 Philistine (Palestinian) foreskins.

After the first few hundred, they realized it was much easier to kill them first....

...and the score as the teams retake the field is, the zionists 48 and the islamic extremists 3.

we'll return to the "my god can kick your god's ass" bowl, after this word from our sponsor, the cordite corporation.

Israel.  Why?  The Palestinians have refused peace overtures by Israel, and have also consistently refused to approach the UN (I know, I can't stand them either!) to appeal to "the Court of World Opinion" to see about getting an actual Palestinian State created, much like Israel in 1948.

The Pals have instead been prosecuting what can only be said to be a "religious war of Genocide" with the only acceptable resolution being the utter destruction of the Hebrew nation and Hebrew race - COMPLETELY.  The only way the Palestinians will now be happy will be the death of EACH and EVERY Jew, worldwide.

If the Palestinians want to toy with genocide, let us give it to them.  The systematic and total destruction of the Palestinian race, worldwide.  If effect, "Do it to them before they do it to us."

Israel will finally be using the Palestinian rules of engagement if such a war should take off.

FFZ

Israeli's weren't dancing in the street and celebrating when the planes flew into the WTC. Palestinians were. Maybe that's not a particularly good reason. And maybe I'm ignoring the longer term history. I don't care. Those bastards were celebrating the loss of American life. Screw 'em.

Why?  That was made abundantly clear 11 September 2001 when 19 Arab moslems murdered thousands of American civilians in an unprovoked attack!

This evil deed was an act that will go down in history as the "second day of infamy" (even though more died than the first time and all were civilian).  It was perpetrated by people who are allied with the Palestinians.  15 of these VERMIN were nationals of a country allegedly our ally (a lie, as Saudia Arabia is our ENEMY!)  All were Arab.  All were moslem.  All were VERMIN.

The civilian murdering cowards known as the Palestinians are funded by both SA and Iraq, another enemy of the US.  They have killed our people in NY, Washington, Yemen, Somalia, Lebanon and other places.  The Israelies have not, as yet, attacked the US mainland nor have they indicating any interest in doing so!

The VEREMIN are the ones raping us at the gas pump so they can fund our sworn enemies.

Makes it very clear to me!!

Haaaahahahaahhaahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!! damn I think I p'd my pants that was so funny! hhaha, you were joking right?




What makes you think they will stop there if they (PLO) win?

'Oh, I just want Poland back because it was ours originally. Well, maybe France too. Ok, Britain looks like they are German (a little) I need that too.' -Adolph Hitler

History. Repeating itself in living color on your TV. I'll make the popcorn!

--LS

Israel belonged to the British.  They relinquished control of it to allow the Jews to have a nation-state of their own, as I understand it.



the only land Israel has now that it didn't have from their point of independence is what they rightfully took in the previous conflicts initiated by other countries.  haven't you ever heard "to the victor go the spoils"?  Israel hasn't stolen anything.  it took it fair and square when the bastards attacked.



frankly that's the fault of American leadership and not Israel, buddy.  we have to LET them have the influence.  otherwise, they're just talking on deaf ears.  i suppose you blame guns for crime and deaths too?



and what does that have to do with the who should come out victorious in this war?  you'd condemn millions of people because one guy in a leadership position might have misbehaved in war?  with that logic, the whole US should be damned for klinton's "war efforts".



wouldn't it be poorer sense to take this path without america's help?  obviously, you don't remember too much of your american history, do you?  just to make it easy on you, we only need go back about 6 and a half months ago.

Israel ain't no angel.  no country is.  but i'll be damned if i condemn a people for protecting themselves against unprovoked attacks on their innocents.  

Well said ARLady, well said.

--LS

Arabs have 95% of the Middle East, why can't they share the last 5%?

If the Palestinian Cause is so just, why don't Jordan and the other Arabic nations field an army to take over Israel. Especially if Allah is on their side.

Israel gives the Palestinians land, and they still don't get peace. Stop caving into the terrorists.

i think it had something to do with Israel fighting back....and winning.

Israel is a nation born of terrorists, the worst single act being the bombing of the British officers and their families.
Israel also was upset that America was not supporting them enough in yet another of their wars, so they attacked an unarmed clearly marked US Navy support ship, and gunned the life boats in the water with helo gunships.
They also spy on America.

That being said, the Palestinians are currently worse terrorists, they are allies of our current worst enemy, and their religion is devoted to America's death. And they danced in the street on 9-11. They must all die for the good of America.

Just ran across this and felt it expressed my thoughts better than I can.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The National Review
April 2, 2002
Back to the Future: Let us not forget 1967.
By Victor Davis Hanson
http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson040202.asp

The proposed solution to the crisis in the Middle East is predicated on one notion: the return of the West Bank and all the other lands occupied by Israel after June 10, 1967. As the current conventional wisdom goes, our diplomatic efforts should be directed toward that single goal. Israel must give back conquered land. In return its Arab neighbors will promise to recognize its existence, make peace, and normalize relations.

One way of determining whether such an agreement would lead to peace would be to imagine what really might happen should Israel give up all of the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights. Fortunately, we need not be utopian about the future, but rather simply revisit the past before June 5, 1967. Then Israel possessed none of those territories. Yet there was no peace — but simply a series of pauses between wars not unlike the present predicament. A quick perusal of a number of general histories about the pre-1967 era — especially Michael Oren's forthcoming magisterial work Six Days of War — reveals a chilling similarity with the present calamity.

Did the Arab states accept Israel's right to exist between 1947 and 1967, when it remained within its U.N.-mandated (Resolution 181) borders? Hardly. Three wars were fought to destroy Israel itself, not to restore the West Bank for the Palestinians. We must remember that for all the talk of Palestinian grievances over the present occupation, Muslims are now allowed free access to their mosques in a manner Jews and Christians were not accorded for their own places of worship under Jordanian control. Desecration of religious shrines and cemeteries was a pre-1967, not a present, phenomenon.

Are suicide bombers and terrorism a new development, a desperate response to the brutal occupation of Palestinian land after 1967? Perhaps, perhaps not. But for Israel's first 20 years of existence terrorists of all sorts crossed over from the Arab West Bank, Syria, and Gaza to kill civilians in efforts to demolish the Jewish state. Instead of Hamas and Hezbollah, such killers used to be dubbed with similar grandiose, but empty, names like "Youths of Revenge" and "Heroes of the Return" — the "return" meaning, of course, all of Israel, not the West Bank, which was in Arab hands.

In 1964 the Syrian chief of Staff Salah Jadid summed it up best, "Every soldier in our army feels that Israel must be wiped off of the map." The nascent al Fatah, along with Syria, bragged in 1967 that "We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated." Indeed, Radio Damascus was quite explicit about its intentions well before it lost the Golan Heights: "Our known objective is the freeing of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist existence there" — again "Palestine" did not mean the West Bank. The PLO's Ahmad Shuqayri was clear about that "We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants and as for survivors — if there are any — the boats are ready to deport them." Some will say, "that was then; this is now" — but the rhetoric from Syria and the Palestinian militants is as disturbing today as it was then.

Does America's support for Israel contribute to the present unrest, and thus create a destabilizing preponderance of military strength for the Jewish state? Forget for the moment that our current aggregate aid to the Palestinians, Jordan, and Egypt is roughly the same amount as we give the Israelis, and instead think back to the first twenty years of Israel's existence. Then America gave almost no military hardware to Israel — except for a few outdated tanks and some short-ranged missiles. Its Air Force consisted mostly of French Mirages and Ouragans — largess that quickly ceased once the 1967 war broke out. Recently we read of a French diplomat's off-the-record remark that Israel is a "sh***y little country." But de Gaulle himself had said as much earlier to Israeli envoys — that he was not about to endanger relations with the Arab world because of some "superficial sympathy for Israel as a small country with an unhappy history."

On the eve of the 1967 war the Arab world had spent $1 billion on defense — more than double the Israeli investment. Indeed, Israel's armed forces were dwarfed by those of its neighbors, which had twice the number of tanks and three times as many jets. Before the Six Day War, the combined Arab armies fielded 900 combat aircraft, 5,000 tanks, and 500,000 soldiers — the latter for the most part outfitted with the latest Soviet and American arms.

Of course, what the Russians and the Americans could not supply to the Arabs were modern maintenance regimes, literate soldiers, secularly educated officers, Western ideas of discipline, merit-system command structures, and rare leaders like Dayan, Rabin, Eshkol, Elazar, Ebban, Meir, and others who were the fruits of a secular, rational, free, and democratic state. The Palestinians now like to cite the unfairness of American-made "Apaches and F-16s" in Israel. Yet when their side had all the material advantages and a staggering edge in weaponry the Arabs still lost.

Has America shown a decided prejudice toward the Israeli side that explains the sudden Arab hostility toward the United States? Not really. An Israeli head of state had never officially been received at the White House until 1964 — nearly 20 years after the foundation of the Jewish State! For most of its early years, Israel depended on support initially from the Soviet Union and later France. Indeed, during the first three Middle East wars the United States sold weapons to nearly every Arab regime and had a military base in Libya. During the 1967 war it essentially supplied no weapons to Israel during the fighting — in dire worry over its military arrangements with many Arab countries and its access to Middle East oil. Nearly forty years ago, as today, Americans were giving Egypt free grain, shipping tanks to Jordan, cozying up to the Saudis, and lecturing Israel on restraint — and the Arab world liked us no better then than it does now.


Are thugs and tyrants like Saddam Hussein a new phenomenon in the Middle East? Once again, almost every atrocity now associated with Iraq could be paralleled under Nasser's Egypt, from a massive secret police to a tribal military clique — even the gassing of fellow Muslims and threats to use such poison against Israel. Well before the Kurdish massacre and the SCUD threat during the Gulf War, Nasser gassed Yemeni villages, and threatened the Israelis with the same — prompting the West Germans (of all people!) to rush 20,000 gas masks to Tel Aviv. Nasser's agents, along with Palestinian terrorists, plotted several assassination attempts against King Hussein of Jordan and organized raids into neighboring countries. His "official" 99.9 plurality in "elections" was about the same margin as Yasser Arafat's and Saddam Hussein's. And any in Syria who thought about returning the Golan Heights in exchange for peace were tried and executed on trumped-up charges of sedition.

Nor is the current lunatic Anti-Americanism new. Syrian Radio blared before the 1967 war, "The Arab seas and the fish in them will feed on the Americans' rotting imperialist bodies." Thirty-five years before Mr. Atta's work on 9/11, Radio Cairo trumped Syrian calumny with the macabre but now prescient warning, "Millions of Arabs are preparing to blow up all of America's interests, all of America's installations, and your entire existence, America." The same big lies that we see today on al Jazeera were the everyday stuff of the latter 1960s — when official government radio stations blared out daily untruths that Americans had bombed Arab countries during the Six Day War and so prevented a "sure" Muslim victory.

What are we to make of all this monotonous Middle Eastern cycle of envy, bluster, defeat, shame, terror / envy, bluster, defeat, shame, terror? Some tough admissions are in order. A great many Arabs — not all, but too many to be controlled by the impotent mechanisms of duplicitous, ineffective, and autocratic governments — will always wish to kill the Jews and destroy Israel, for a variety of complex reasons that transcend the occupation of territory. A schizophrenic hatred of and desire for the West is perhaps at the heart of the antipathy. After all, a man who chants and spews hatred in the street against Israel and the West on Sunday, and then on the next morning begs to work there to earn cash to buy Western material goods is a pretty-mixed up and angry fellow.

There is no evidence of democracy anywhere in the Middle East except in Israel — then, now, or in the near future. But without free societies and education systems that are also open and subject to secular critique in the Middle East, we should get used to a continual Arab effort every few years — 1946, 1956, 1967, 1973, 2001 — to destroy Israel. Whether we ignore Israel (1946, 1956, 1967), actively back it (1973), or seek to be an honest broker (1982, 2001) means little in an undemocratic Arab world, which will hate us regardless. They see any Israeli concessions — whether the withdrawal from Lebanon or the proposed return of all the West Bank — as a requisite step forward in the eventual absorption of Israel, rather than cause for reciprocal magnanimity and eventual peace.

If the Arab League really wishes a settlement, they should invite Mr. Sharon to their future conferences. If Mr. Arafat really wishes to create a democratic state in Palestine, he should hold real elections (under U.N. supervision) immediately and lift all censorship of the media. Americans should insist on elections in the region — especially in Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. As Israel pulls out of the West Bank, Syria must leave Lebanon. And if Palestinians wish a return of prosperity and the eventual autonomy of the West Bank then they should condemn the suicide bombers as murderers, not praise them as martyrs. Only that way can the world be sure that thinking in the Middle East has evolved beyond the barbarism of 1967.

During this entire crisis Americans have hoped for the enlightenment, favored restraint, and been sorely disappointed — whether the Clinton efforts at brokering a Middle East settlement, past administrations' lack of real responses to overt terrorist attacks, the recent lull between September 11 and October 7 in hopes of talking sense to the Taliban, or the present efforts to force U.N. weapons inspectors into Iraq. In contrast, every time that we have shown independence, principle — and force — freeing the unfree in Afghanistan, sending home Mr. Zinni, warning Arafat that the wages of his suicide bombers naturally bring Israeli retaliation against his police-state infrastructure, and letting the Pakistanis and Saudis know of our growing anger, we have done far better and fewer have died.

What a strange world we live in: What our academics, intellectuals, and self-professed ethicists call morality so often turns out to be so abjectly amoral — and downright deadly as well.


— Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power.

Israel

Israel is going to win, but unfortunately the US is going to be drawn into the thick of it. The Arab world will unite against Israel, forcing the US to honor its treaty's.

The Arab nations are already talking about cutting  the oil they supply us.

ARlady just read your post, well said.

Really in the Bible the "Jews" were in that area, that was 2,000 years ago........



Gee could it have anything to do with the attacks that Israel suffered in the '60's from it "neighbors"? Or could it be because of the people today who get on a bus, ride for a few minutes and the blow up diners in Israel?? Could it be they are hoping that they can go to Starbucks someday without having to worry that someone might blow themselves up?



I believe waht you are trying to say is that Americans who identify themselves as Jewish may have expressed their concern about Israel to their elected officials. Holy cow, imagine that representative government, that listens to "the people".



Here is an important point, I have no doubt that if it was possible the Palestineans would wipe out Israel, they just don't have the means. Israel has the means to wipe out all the Palestinians, and probably a few of the countries in that neighborhood, but they don't. If the rest of the region is so worried about the Palestinians why don't the give them a chunk of Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon. Think about it.



Nice thinking

would you change your mind if you knew that none of these are true and/or have no relevance?  i mean, you wouldn't knowingly base your opinion on lies and falsehood, would you?

'Not one square inch, not one foot, not a yard of Palestine will the Zionists occupy, ever!'
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/EricTheHun%2FArafatAndIsraeliSoldier%2Ejpg[/img]
'You have my word, that we will drive the hated enemy into the sea.'

'Now, where is my 'A Million Martyrs to Jerusalem and All I got Was This Lousy T-Shirt'?'

Don't think of 9/11 as a terrorist attack, think of it as what it truly is: a desperate cry for help from the Arab world. They were trying to let us know that they are hurting, but we're so arrogant and self interested, we forgot how to listen to the world's poor and helpless.

The Palestinians use of suicide bombers, likewise, is a cry for help, an expression that they don't like being second-class citizens in their own country or being victims of racial profiling.  

Didn't about 50,000 or so Americans die within a day or two at Gettysberg? Perhaps then we ought to just go out shoot ourselves.  Which makes about as much sense as anything else that I've read on this thread today [argue][argue]
W

waltere? What does that mean?

Thanks Mouse...great little history lesson packed in that article.

Jim