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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/21/2003 7:54:06 AM EDT
What a silly place England is.


Britain to curb famous legal rule
By ED JOHNSON
Associated Press
LONDON -- The British Parliament on Thursday approved legislation to overturn "double jeopardy" protection for offenses such as murder, rape and armed robbery.

The centuries-old legal rule prevents suspects being tried twice for a crime and is enshrined in the legal codes of many of Britain's former colonies, including the United States.

But under the Criminal Justice Bill, introduced by Prime Minister Tony Blair's government, a person acquitted of certain serious offenses will face a second trial if compelling new details, such as DNA evidence, come to light.

The legislation, hailed by the government as the biggest reform of Britain's criminal justice system in a generation, now only needs royal assent, which is virtually automatic, before it becomes law.

Blair's government presented the legislation last year, but its progress through Parliament has been turbulent, largely due to clauses curbing the right to trial by jury. The House of Lords, Parliament's upper chamber, which has the power to amend and delay legislation, opposed those clauses and repeatedly blocked the bill.

After intense talks Thursday, the Lords backed government plans for judge-only trials in cases where there is a danger a jury could be intimidated. The government in return agreed to put shelve its plans to scrap juries in complex fraud cases.

The government Thursday also prevailed on plans to overhaul Britain's much-criticized National Health Service.

Blair, who has made reforming the state-funded health care system a priority for his second term in office, wants to grant Britain's leading hospitals greater independence and allow them to make their own management and spending decisions.

But his proposals to create so-called foundation hospitals have encountered fierce opposition from lawmakers, many in his governing Labor Party, who see them as the first step toward privatization.

The Commons narrowly approved the proposal Wednesday, although 62 Labor lawmakers rebelled. On Thursday, the Lords dropped their opposition to the plans and the legislation now only needs royal assent before it becomes law.


Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:12:17 AM EDT
Just a philosphical discussion:

I'm not entirely in agreement with the idea of double jeopardy. I find it rediculous that if a murderer gets off on a technicality, and later absolutely solid evidence is found, that he should be able to walk.

That said, I have a great deal of respect for the Framers, so they put that in there for a reason.

Is it more than just to avoid having the government persecute someone they don't like?
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:26:38 AM EDT
they have been prosecuting people for the same crime more than once for a while now
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 8:41:08 AM EDT
This is nothing new. You can only be tried twice if new compelling evidence is discovered.

They can't try you again with the same evidence just to get a different jury. That is the whole idea behind double jeopardy. A powerful government could theoretically try you repeatedly forever for the same crime if found not guilty without double jeopardy.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 9:48:51 AM EDT
I know this is about England, but it amazes me that anyone would try and justify it, for them or us.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:03:30 AM EDT
Ashley Judd starred in a documentary about her real-life experience with "Double Jeopardy."

I never knew she had a story like that.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:25:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I'm not entirely in agreement with the idea of double jeopardy. I find it rediculous that if a murderer gets off on a technicality, and later absolutely solid evidence is found, that he should be able to walk.

That said, I have a great deal of respect for the Framers, so they put that in there for a reason.

Is it more than just to avoid having the government persecute someone they don't like?


Prior to the revolution, the Brits would try a colonist again and again for various righteous and revolutionary activities just to make the guy go broke and keep him in jail pending (another) trial.

Double jeapordy has been gutted here also. The Supreme Court has read the provision narrowly, and allows multiple states and the feds to try you for the same crime.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 1:54:20 PM EDT
So what, we don't have "Double Jeopardy" protection here, either! Maybe they can't go at you again in "Criminal" court, but they'll DAMNED sure get you in "Civil" court. It's pure bullshit. Oh, and you think you have a right to a jury trial, do you? You won't think so once you understand the makeup of a jury and how they get there. That, as well, is bullshit.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:22:33 PM EDT
It serves the Brits right for doing the same thing to the Irish in the six counties.

What's good for the goose...
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:29:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
It serves the Brits right for doing the same thing to the Irish in the six counties.

What's good for the goose...



ah, can you say Diplock Court lol...

well, for a while, they're still better off on the mainland...at least they won't be held and tortured for 5 days, stripped of their right to silence, and have thier lawyers murdered under the direction of MI5, the British Army, and the RUC. Well not YET anyway....

Oh, if anyone thinks I'm making this up, do a little research on the Stevens Inquiry.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:30:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fenian:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
It serves the Brits right for doing the same thing to the Irish in the six counties.

What's good for the goose...



ah, can you say Diplock Court lol...




A buddy of mine and I were discussing this after I posted it. We both found it terribly ironic.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 7:23:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
It serves the Brits right for doing the same thing to the Irish in the six counties.

What's good for the goose...




And when we were savage fierce and wild

Whack fula diddle ala di do day

She came as a mother to her child

Whack fula diddle ala di do day

Gently raised us from the slime

And saved our hands from hellish crime


Then she sent us to heaven in her own good time

Whack fula diddle ala di do day

(Verse from a song by Paderic Kearney; composer of "The Soldier's Song"; Ireland's National Anthem)

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:26:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/21/2003 10:28:06 PM EDT by Fenian]
Peadar Kearney is Brendan and Dominic Behan's uncle, I believe. A Soldier's song:

A Soldier's Song
Peadar Kearney
We'll sing a song, a soldier's song
With cheering, rousing chorus
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we await the morning's light
Here in the silence of the night
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Soldiers are we, whose lives are pledged to Ireland
Some have come from a land beyond the waves.
Sworn to be free, no more our ancient sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave;
Tonight we man the bearna baoghal
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal;
'Mid cannon's roar and rifle's peal
We'll chant a soldier's song.

In valley green or towering crag
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's proudly floating o'er us,
We're children of a fighting race
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Innisfail
Shall set the tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silv'ry glow,
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe,**
So chant a soldier's song.

**3 guesses who they mean hehe.

Amhán Na bhFiann

Sinne Fianna Fáil,
Atá Fá gheall ag Éirinn,
Buidhean dár sluagh tar rúinn do ráinig chughainn:
Fámhoídh bheírh saor,
Sean-tír ár sinnsear feasta
Ní fágfar fá'n tíorán ná fa'n tráil;
Anocht a theigeamh sa bhearna baoghail,
Le gean ar Gaedhí chun báis nó saoghail,
Le gunna sgréach: Fá lamhach na piléar.
Seo Libh canaidh amhrán na bhFiann.

Seo dhibh a cháirde duan oglaidh
Caithréimeach, bríoghmhar, ceolmhar.
Ár dteinte cnámh go buacach táid,
`S an spéir go min réaltógach.
Is fionmhar faobhrach sinn chun gleo
'S go tiúnmhar glé roimh tigheacht do'n ló,
Fa ciúnas chaoimh na h-oidhche ar seol,
Seo libh, canaídh amhrán na bhFiann.

Cois banta réidhe, ar árdaibh sléibhe.
Ba bhuadhach ár rinnsear romhainn,
Ag lámhach go tréan fá'n sár- bhrat séin
Tá thuas sa ghaoith go seolta;
Ba dhúthchas riamh d'ár gcine cháidh
Gan iompáil riar ó imirt áir,
'Siubhal mar iad i gcoinnibh rámhaid
Seo libh, canaidh amhrán na bhFiann.

A buidhean nach fann d'fuil Ghaoidheal is Gall
Sinn breacadh lae na saoirse,
Tá sgéimhle 's sgannradh í gcroidhthibh namhad,
Roimh ranngaibh laochra ár dtíre;
Ár dteinte is tréith gan spréach anois,
Sin luinne ghlé san spéir anoir,
'S an bíodhbha i raon na bpiléar agaibh:
Seo libh, canaidh amhrán na bhFiann.



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