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Posted: 9/14/2005 1:54:14 PM EDT
September 19, 2005

Energy-beam gun could be in Iraq within months

By Steven Komarow
USA Today

Troops in Iraq will soon be shooting an experimental weapon that fires an invisible beam of energy instead of bullets to repel insurgents without killing civilians.

Millimeter-length radiation fired by the Active Denial System penetrates just below the surface of the skin to cause an excruciating burning sensation until it is turned off. Extensive testing has shown no lasting damage, the military said.

The weapon will be demonstrated in public this summer, and a variation of the system could land in Iraq within months. It is the first in what could become a catalog of energy beams that aim to ease one of the war’s toughest problems.

Troops who guard checkpoints, bases and convoys regularly face oncoming people or vehicles of uncertain intent, and often open fire rather than risk a bomb attack.

Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari complained about mistaken shootings to U.S. officials, and the U.S. command in Iraq asked the Pentagon this spring to speed shipment of the nonlethal beam weapons.

The first ADS prototype, developed for the Marine-led Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Program, sits atop a special Humvee that has a hybrid gasoline-electric drivetrain. The propulsion batteries double as a power source for the gun, which looks like a satellite dish and is aimed with a joystick.

But deployment of that system could be years away, and commanders in Iraq want something now. So more than a dozen armored vehicles, equipped with a variation of the ADS technology and a host of other systems, could land in Iraq early next year as part of the Defense Department’s Project Sheriff.

Built by Raytheon, which also makes the ADS technology, Project Sheriff's millimeter wave weapon requires less power and has a different energy source, said company spokeswoman Sara Hammond, who declined to give specifics about the emerging technology. As a result, the weapon is easier to transport and operate, but has a shorter range.

When the beam hits its target, however, the results are the same.

“It’s just physically a smaller system,” Hammond said. “It’s being used for close-in urban warfare.”

Instead of a hybrid Humvee, the smaller energy weapon and other technologies for the Project Sheriff program will likely be installed in an armored vehicle that also has lethal options.

“It is not a silver bullet, but it will help our Marines and soldiers from having to go lethal before it’s necessary,” said Sue Payton, deputy undersecretary of defense for advanced systems and concepts.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:07:35 PM EDT
Bets on how long before the US police have it? Maybe tinfoil isn't such a bad idea after all?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:08:31 PM EDT
as someone else pointed out a few months ago, the proliferation of less-lethal has frightening undertones.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:11:52 PM EDT
come on now we dont want to hurt those poor insurgents



Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:19:04 PM EDT
Yes, but at the same time they wouldn't hesitate to use it on Citizen Joe if ordered.

I'm curious, although anything seems to give you cancer these days, does the idea of bombarding the human body with radiation sound like an invitation for cancer? What happens when these systems are used here, by LE for riots and what not?

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:25:36 PM EDT
Is it in the 40 watt range? If it was in the 40 megawatt range it would be perfect!
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:25:41 PM EDT
I read that there were some concerns that this was being rushed into service over no small amount of oblection... things like jewelry don't go well with this weapon, so they made sure to wear none during testing, stuff like that. I wouldn't want to get hit with it, especially if I had piercings.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:27:46 PM EDT
Modern day whip.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:28:16 PM EDT
My chrome plated suit is no longer bling bling its tactical. Wait till the operator hits a giant mirror.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:28:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I read that there were some concerns that this was being rushed into service over no small amount of oblection... things like jewelry don't go well with this weapon, so they made sure to wear none during testing, stuff like that. I wouldn't want to get hit with it, especially if I had piercings.



Would it go from pain-inducer to bug-zapper?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:44:03 PM EDT
We don't need energy beams or sharks with fricken lasers on their heads to win the war on terror. Just shoot our enemies and they won't bother us any more. Why make things complicated?

BTW, LEO's should never have this device. I could imagine who it would be pointed at in times of national crises (hint: people like us, not the criminal element.). Hell, they won't even shoot looters nowadays.

Scott
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:01:23 PM EDT

Troops who guard checkpoints, bases and convoys regularly face oncoming people or vehicles of uncertain intent, and often open fire rather than risk a bomb attack


I doubt that it would penetrate the metal on vehicles - which means it will be of limited use against car bombs.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:03:19 PM EDT
Wonder what happens when they turn it up a notch or two... crispy people perhaps?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:06:56 PM EDT
/Homer
Oh, yeah, what are you gonna do? Release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark, they shoot bees at you?
/Homer
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:17:11 PM EDT
"My batteries are at full charge and I have come for your guns".
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 3:59:00 PM EDT
1. Its not in service.

2. Its still being tested.

3. It works like a MF'er. You KNOW when you are hit. And the 'beam' has some interesting properties.

"Say no more, say no more"
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:15:00 PM EDT
Tin foil will not work any more.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BallisticTip:
Tin foil will not work any more.




...damn, he's right
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:18:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:24:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AgentFork:
Yes, but at the same time they wouldn't hesitate to use it on Citizen Joe if ordered.

I'm curious, although anything seems to give you cancer these days, does the idea of bombarding the human body with radiation sound like an invitation for cancer? What happens when these systems are used here, by LE for riots and what not?


I would imaging since khemotherapy (sp?) is radiation treatment and burns like a mother fucker that this could be similar. I could be way off though
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:28:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AgentFork:
Would it go from pain-inducer to bug-zapper?



Have you ever met a mosquito with a Prince Albert?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:36:44 PM EDT
Anyone want to join me for a Group Buy of energy beam guns? At least we wouldn't have to stockpile ammo.



CWO
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:41:40 PM EDT
'I doubt that it would penetrate the metal on vehicles - which means it will be of limited use against car bombs."

That's my thoughts also. What are they going to do sit their with the weapons aimed at the driver while he speeds towards them and wait till he starts to feel the sting?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:47:30 PM EDT
But does TAPCO make a folding stock for it?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:47:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AgentFork:

I'm curious, although anything seems to give you cancer these days, does the idea of bombarding the human body with radiation sound like an invitation for cancer? What happens when these systems are used here, by LE for riots and what not?




It seems that long term, lower dose exposures to various forms of radiation and chemicals are far more dangerous in terms of causing cancer than cases of acute exposure, even at higher intensity.

I doubt one exposure would pose much of a risk at all.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:59:36 PM EDT
how many millimeter length?
1mm
12
120
if it's 120 it's just a microwave gun
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:04:05 PM EDT
It's a low-intensity microwave floodlight! It hurts you, but it won't barbecue you, it just feels like hot water. If we're lucky it will set off bomb vests.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:06:54 PM EDT
Can it pop popcorn from a distance?
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:10:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 5:15:37 PM EDT by ColonelKlink]
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:10:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 5:11:14 PM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By LotBoy:
Can it pop popcorn from a distance?

I'm pretty sure our troops will figure that out real fast.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 5:14:07 PM EDT
We should make the gun in the shape of a cross and when we turn it on them, Yell out over loudspeakers that God is setting their insides on fire!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:14:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
We should make the gun in the shape of a cross and when we turn it on them, Yell out over loudspeakers that God is setting their insides on fire!



Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:31:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
We should make the gun in the shape of a cross and when we turn it on them, Yell out over loudspeakers that God is setting their insides on fire!






..or burn a crescent into their forehead, then you know who to use the "most lethal" on
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:31:46 AM EDT
For some odd reasons it reminds me very strongly Orgazmo
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:38:46 AM EDT
Budy of mine just back from USAF BMT, and TI said he got see them test them at tech school. Plus he said they have them at his Guard base now but they wont let them play with them anymore because some of the guys were trying to fry an egg with it. But he said it hurts, it raises the core temp of the body to the point were you pass out. Like having a real high fever. Said they wont really crank it up much higher scared too. But he said its cool little toy.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:24:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TURNSKULL:
Budy of mine just back from USAF BMT, and TI said he got see them test them at tech school. Plus he said they have them at his Guard base now but they wont let them play with them anymore because some of the guys were trying to fry an egg with it. But he said it hurts, it raises the core temp of the body to the point were you pass out. Like having a real high fever. Said they wont really crank it up much higher scared too. But he said its cool little toy.

How quickly does it raise the core temperature? Is it like an instantanous/very-short time, or does it take a minute or two?

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:10:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TURNSKULL:
Budy of mine just back from USAF BMT, and TI said he got see them test them at tech school. Plus he said they have them at his Guard base now but they wont let them play with them anymore because some of the guys were trying to fry an egg with it. But he said it hurts, it raises the core temp of the body to the point were you pass out. Like having a real high fever. Said they wont really crank it up much higher scared too. But he said its cool little toy.

ALRIGHT YOU PEOPLE STAND BACK!!! PLEASE DISARM YOUR R.P.G.S OR WE WILL OPEN FIRE AND YOU WILL BE ZAPPED IN YOUR MOUSH ASSES!!!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:43:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ColonelKlink:

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Related topic: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=389951



Oh please....

If you were referring to misguided spending on government tit sucking programs for the "socio-economically challenged", then I might agree with you.

But this is one thing I will never understand. I can't believe some of you geniuses actually want to cut spending on the development of advanced technologies. This is the fucking 21st century. Out with the old and in with the new.

[Begin rant]
This means getting over the shitty old dinosaurs like the 1911. Even if it looks bling bling with the crappy ass 30 dollar 25k gold plated Wilson combat mags, it's still a revolver capacity semi-auto.

This means getting your fucking head out of your ass about manned space flight. Instead of looking at the short term costs, it is time to start looking at the long term benefits. GPS, satellite phones, MRI's, satellite imagery, global communications, guided munitions, etc are all absolute fucking wastes of money. We need to get our fucking shit together NOW, and replace the current shuttle orbiter with something a little more advanced than an Atari 2600.

It means you look like an idiot when you bash glock's, usp's, and XD's, because of their "crappy plastic construction".

The truth is people are afraid to adapt to changing technologies. This is almost as bad as the retards originally condemning the ar15 because it was "a mouse gun".


[End rant]


Sorry if i went offtopic, i needed to get that off my chest.



In DoD procurement, there's a fine, often-crossed line between fostering useful innovation and some Pentagon General's gee-whiz, ain't-it-cool pet program. This one almost certainly crosses that line; time will tell...
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:50:23 AM EDT
"Set phazers to stun!"

Guess Gene Roddenberry had it right.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:54:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By spartacus2002:
But does TAPCO make a folding stock for it?


Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:57:10 AM EDT
... Test your ability to control one here:

www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=5
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:00:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 8:38:44 AM EDT by LWilde]
I'd like to see them bump up the juice, decrease the beamwidth and try it out on some enemy insurgents.

Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:01:49 AM EDT
In ten years this is going to be scary.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
In ten years this is going to be scary.




+1
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 8:40:55 AM EDT
Guyz...one thing to think about:

Microwaves are known to do very strange things to one's testies. Getting them "warm" is bad...very bad.

Can you say "raghead terrorist population control"
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:37:50 PM EDT
You just know someone over there is going to turbocharge this sucker, crank up the power, and we're going to have roast insurgent.

Not, of course, that there's any problem with that....
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:48:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASUsax:
You just know someone over there is going to turbocharge this sucker, crank up the power, and we're going to have roast insurgent. Not, of course, that there's any problem with that....

We can load up those units into a C-130 (side-fire style like the AC-130) and a few generators... Then just fly circles and heat 'em up!

Oh, great idea on shaping it into a cross.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:08:33 PM EDT
I like the idea if they can turn it into a lethal weapon otherwise its a waste of time and tax payer $$$$ hmmm and I always thought some kinda guass rifle would be invented before beam weapons.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:11:47 PM EDT
What kind of fun is that if it dont do no harm, man I want to see human torches running around yelling allah akbar as they go up in smoke.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
We should make the gun in the shape of a cross and when we turn it on them, Yell out over loudspeakers that God is setting their insides on fire!



I love you so much right now

I hope you don't mind if I steal that little line from you
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 1:21:05 PM EDT
Maybe the Oklahoma NG will field-test it NOLA. Sure would make it easier to deny citizens their RKBA.
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