Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 11/23/2003 7:56:18 AM EDT
WTF?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/11/22/international1545EST0605.DTL
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:02:11 AM EDT
LET'S TRY THAT AGAIN.

M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army
Sat Nov 22, 3:55 PM ET

By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer

"BAGHDAD, Iraq - After nearly 40 years of battlefield service around the globe, the M-16 may be on its way out as the standard Army assault rifle because of flaws highlighted during the invasion and occupation of Iraq (news - web sites).



U.S. officers in Iraq say the M-16A2 — the latest incarnation of the 5.56 mm firearm — is quietly being phased out of front-line service because it has proven too bulky for use inside the Humvees and armored vehicles that have emerged as the principal mode of conducting patrols since the end of major fighting on May 1.


The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death.


"It's a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which controls Baghdad. "I can tell you that as a result of this experience, the Army will look very carefully at how it performed."


Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraq's dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops.


The M-4 is essentially a shortened M-16A2, with a clipped barrel, partially retractable stock and a trigger mechanism modified to fire full-auto instead of three-shots bursts. It was first introduced as a personal defense weapon for clerks, drivers and other non-combat troops.


"Then it was adopted by the Special Forces and Rangers, mainly because of its shorter length," said Col. Kurt Fuller, a battalion commander in Iraq and an authority on firearms.


Fuller said studies showed that most of the combat in Iraq has been in urban environments and that 95 percent of all engagements have occurred at ranges shorter than 100 yards, where the M-4, at just over 30 inches long, works best.


Still, experience has shown the carbines also have deficiencies. The cut-down barrel results in lower bullet velocities, decreasing its range. It also tends to rapidly overheat and the firing system, which works under greater pressures created by the gases of detonating ammunition, puts more stress on moving parts, hurting its reliability.


Consequently, the M-4 is an unlikely candidate for the rearming of the U.S. Army. It is now viewed as an interim solution until the introduction of a more advanced design known as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, or OICW.


There is no date set for the entry into service of the OICW, but officers in Iraq say they expect its arrival sooner than previously expected because of the problems with the M-16 and the M-4.


"Iraq is the final nail in the coffin for the M-16," said a commander who asked not to be identified.


The current version of the M-16 is a far cry from the original, which troops during the Vietnam War criticized as fragile, lacking power and range, and only moderately accurate. At the time, a leading U.S. weapons expert even recommended that American soldiers discard their M-16s and arm themselves with the Kalashnikov AK-47 rifle used by their Vietcong enemy.


Although the M16A1 — introduced in the early 1980s — has been heavily modernized, experts say it still isn't as reliable as the AK-47 or its younger cousin, the AK-74. Both are said to have better "knockdown" power and can take more of a beating on the battlefield. "

I see some factual errors in the story but can the end really be near for the M16/M4 family of weapons?

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:13:08 AM EDT
oh here we go again!

The army wants an excuse to buy new expensive weapons. at our expense. why not phase out the M16.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:13:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By aabob:
LET'S TRY THAT AGAIN.

M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army
Sat Nov 22, 3:55 PM ET

By SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer

"BAGHDAD, Iraq - After nearly 40 years of battlefield service around the globe, the M-16 may be on its way out as the standard Army assault rifle because of flaws highlighted during the invasion and occupation of Iraq (news - web sites).

Not according to any official after-action reports written by the Marines or Army. Source?





U.S. officers in Iraq say the M-16A2 — the latest incarnation of the 5.56 mm firearm — is quietly being phased out of front-line service because it has proven too bulky for use inside the Humvees and armored vehicles that have emerged as the principal mode of conducting patrols since the end of major fighting on May 1.

Effective patrols are done on foot. The M16 is an infantryman's weapon. "Inside of Humvees"??




The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death.

...fighting from "Inside of Humvees"???
Nonsense.
Only an idiot questions the suitability of an Infantry weapon, because it is deemed ineffective for firing from inside a vehicle.




"It's a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which controls Baghdad. "I can tell you that as a result of this experience, the Army will look very carefully at how it performed."

Perhaps it's not the vehicle, General. Maybe it's the choice of tactics.




Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraq's dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops.

"Prone to jamming"?
If the troops are poorly led, and do not perform basic maintenance?
Yes.




Although the M16A1 — introduced in the early 1980s — has been heavily modernized, experts say it still isn't as reliable as the AK-47 or its younger cousin, the AK-74. Both are said to have better "knockdown" power and can take more of a beating on the battlefield. "

I see some factual errors in the story but can the end really be near for the M16/M4 family of weapons?


It's a silly article.
Without any sources.

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:25:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2003 8:26:08 AM EDT by LocknLoaded]

I see some factual errors in the story but can the end really be near for the M16/M4 family of weapons?


It's a silly article.
Without any sources.


True!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. officers in Iraq say the M-16A2 — the latest incarnation of the 5.56 mm firearm — is quietly being phased out of front-line service because it has proven too bulky for use inside the Humvees and armored vehicles that have emerged as the principal mode of conducting patrols since the end of major fighting on May 1.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Effective patrols are done on foot. The M16 is an infantryman's weapon. "Inside of Humvees"??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because the enemy is a bunch of gutless cowards, cannot face us in a fight so we get attacted from behind. our suckerpunched.

Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:50:15 AM EDT
maybe we should learn from the gang wars and arm the humvee crews with tech 9's. We all know how effective and deadly those are from inside a moving vehicle.

mike
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 8:53:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
maybe we should learn from the gang wars and arm the humvee crews with tech 9's. We all know how effective and deadly those are from inside a moving vehicle.

mike



yeah they hit everything except rival gang members.

I find it funny that they complain the M-16 is too big then they will complain the M-4 is too small and they can't hit stuff at 500 yards.

why can't we just have 3 rifles, M-4 for upclose M-16 for jungle and a .308 battle rifle for those long desert shots.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:05:00 AM EDT
Seems to me, a new caliber upper(perhaps several) could extend the m16's service life by another 40 years.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:09:58 AM EDT
I`ll be more than happy to get in line for a DCM M16A1, M16A2, and M4.
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:23:18 AM EDT
GREAT! Since they "suck" so bad they should have no reservations about selling them to us civilians.
I read this article from a news source that called assault rifles "weapons of mass destruction".
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:29:06 AM EDT
Top Top