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Posted: 11/24/2002 12:13:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 12:32:49 PM EST by Dale007]
while shooting this weekend! Nobody was hurt. I have only shot around 200 rounds through this pistol. It busted off about an inch from the front. It is a stainless steel 1911A1 ony about 2 years old. My question is how could this happen and how good is Springfield about backing up their product? Thanks Dale
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:18:15 PM EST
I don't own any SA products, but I've heard they're pretty responsive, customer-service wise. Do you have any pictures of the slide that you could post?
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:22:47 PM EST
an inch from the front? interesting, I'd like to see some pic's myself and to know what SA does for you. glad no one was hurt!
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:28:02 PM EST
Interesting as many have allways given the 1911 barrel bushing bad rap,but have never heard of failure! Some have oppted for the rod as opposed to the bushing! Will be looking forward to your picture,and future post about this! Also glad nobody was hurt! Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:28:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2002 12:30:40 PM EST by Dale007]
I am charging the digital camera as we speak. However I have not posted pics in along time and the host I was using went out of business. Letme know what host I can use and I will try to post them. The barrel was not damaged although it has never been a very accurate gun. Always suspected that it had a bad barrel.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:32:35 PM EST
[url=www.hunting-pictures.com]hunting pictures[/url] works for me.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:33:44 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:48:22 PM EST
[http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/dale007/Dsc00834.jpg] Here are the pics. Hope this shows more then a red X.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:51:55 PM EST
[img]http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/dale007/Dsc00834.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:52:34 PM EST
That's weird. I just got a SA 1911- A1 and hope this doesn't happen to mine.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:53:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2002 12:55:23 PM EST by nm_man]
Dale- this might make it active.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 12:57:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Troy: I've seen several sets of pics of Springfields doing this.. ...
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Interesting (looking at picture) is this isolated to SA slides or other mfg had this happen also? also, what would be the major suspect (cause) in this case?
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:07:38 PM EST
Wow, I have never seen that one before. I would think that if you complained to SA they would take care of this in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:09:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:14:13 PM EST
Hopefully you mailed in your Warranty card. SA has a lifetime warranty, as I recall, and I've always heard good things about their service.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:15:05 PM EST
Phil, that is EXACTLY what happened to mine. Maybe it has something to do with the stainless steel.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:19:24 PM EST
Hmm...200 rounds in 2 years??? Sounds and looks like the metal atrophied from lack of use!! [:D] You should be brought up on charges of pistol abuse for not shooting it enough!! And someone was hurt!! That poor 1911!!!! But glad that YOU were not hurt!!!!
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:45:37 PM EST
Wow, that is interesting. Usually slide fracture/break around the ejection port.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:57:21 PM EST
Here's a complete guess on my part..perhaps the full length recoil guide hung up when you fired. The front of the slide could not move, while the rear recoiled, causing it to fracture. Is there any apparent damage to the recoil guide or the bushing?
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:58:49 PM EST
You wuss! Who cares about warranties? Haven't you ever heard of superglue?
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 1:59:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:01:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:09:32 PM EST
I noticed in both pics, the fracture is right at the end of the recoil spring plug tunnel. This area strikes against the recoil spring guide head at full recoil. Most full length guide heads are thicker and harder steel than the standard guides. Were you using a shock buff? This combined with the thicker guide head would cause the plug tunnel to strike even sooner. What is the weight and condition of your recoil spring? How far did the casings land from your shooting position? Anything more than 5-6' would indicate a weak or wrong weight recoil spring. Most factory springs are in the 15-16# rating, I always use the Wolf 18# spring for any defensive or hardball ammo. I had a blue steel Springfield 1911 Loaded that exhibited peening at the plug tunnel after about 150 rnds, I swithched it over to a standard plug and guide because of the way I learned to press-check the 1911 was not compatable to with full length rods. Springfields are supposed to be made from forgings, do you notice any porosity in the break? These might be some areas to look into, but S/A should honor your warranty. You might want to opt for a blue steel slide, if they allow you to do that, I beleve stainless is more prone to work hardening than carbon. I long since switched from from S/A to Kimber, and have never looked back.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:12:02 PM EST
Now you know where the compact 1911's come from.[thinking]
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:34:55 PM EST
Dale, could you please post a close up picture of where the steel fractured? Thanks
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:37:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:42:06 PM EST
A cast slide + a bad harmonic maybe? I don't know. Springfield is pretty top notch. Send it to them with a detailed letter. Thqt ought to do it. They don't want a dangerous firearm out there any more than you do.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 2:53:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/24/2002 3:34:19 PM EST by AR-10]
A gentleman posting on The Firing Line had this same failure with his Springfield Stainless Loaded about a year ago. I think the outcome was that there was a small batch of slides produced about two years back that were defective. Improper heat treating possibly? I have a Springfield Stainless Longslide and used to own a Stainless Loaded. They are nicely built firearms. Their service department should treat you right.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 8:17:36 PM EST
You need not worry about having to send in your warrentee card as they do not need that to still be in warentee here in the US. It's under whatever warentee that they offer.
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 8:45:38 PM EST
Hmmm, very interesting story and pictures. It appears that the slide is a cast stainless steel. I'm not sure how Springfield makes their slides, but judging by the one pic with the broken part showing, it o'most looks like it is cast. Not all stainless is able to be hardened. If it is cast stainless it cannot be hardened. I think someone either picked the wrong type of stainless or they didn't treat it correctly. It makes sense that it broke where it did since that is where the slide hits the frame and the facture propagated upwards. I guess you didnt see any cracks or machine gouges on the slide there before it broke, but that would be a good indicator of trouble brewing. -Luther
Link Posted: 11/24/2002 8:52:35 PM EST
I call BULLSHIT! OPERATOR ERROR!!! YOU CANT SHOOT .223 OUT OF A .45!!! ARE YOU NUTS?!?!?!?! BUUUUUUUUUT seriously folks. I am glad no one got hurt and Im sure SA will do right by you.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 4:10:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 4:36:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle: Looks a lot like this one: [url]http://album.gunsnet.net/data/philinseattle/159_p6094.jpg[/url] I'm not sure where I got this picture from. I've had it saved for over a year.
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Guys...its been suggested here before but I gotta tell you that busted slide looks like a sand casting to me. I thought that SA forged these parts...but maybe not. A trained mettalurgist could help...maybe a trip to the local university or good metal shop to discuss this. IF it is, as I suspect a casting, and IF it is being impacted hard during the recoil action as previously mentioned here, then that would explain a lot. Castings tend to shatter when banged around hard...forgings on the other hand take far more punishment when abused. I don't think that if this slide was a forging in a quality steel that it would EVER break as has been described here. I don't think it is a "bad batch"...unless you consider the entire product line a bad batch. I could be wrong...but that sure looks like some castings we made many, many years ago in school. What to do? Contact SA. Return if possible or get another slide...and IF it is a casting, ditch it for another piece. That is NOT the weapon you want to defend yourself with...ever. Good Luck!
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 5:08:51 AM EST
Aw crap...I just bought one. I hope that doesn't happen to me.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 5:14:26 AM EST
Chimborazo, I just sent an email with the pic to Springfield. I will let you know the out come.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 5:53:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 6:31:02 AM EST
[shock] Yikes! I've never seen any thing like this! Seems like Springfield would deffinately replace your pistol and should throw in a couple other pistols to keep ya from advertising the failure![:D]
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 8:43:20 AM EST
I'm not a metallurgist but I've broken plenty of metal in my time and forged steel definitely looks different along a break than cast steel. Springfield's website claims forged frames and slides and that slide just doesn't look forged, unless it's possible to heat-treat something so poorly that the steel changes from basically a linear crystal array to the more random orientation characteristic of castings.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 10:35:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dale007: Chimborazo, I just sent an email with the pic to Springfield. I will let you know the out come.
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Thanks...I'll be curious to see not only how they handle it, but what their explanation is.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 12:10:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 12:47:11 PM EST
I sure am glad I bought Glocks instead of Springfield Armory equipment. I'd rather not lose the front of my Slide, kind of makes aiming and shooting difficult. Sorry this is all tongue in cheek here, just playing off the Glock Kaboom posts, and how overblown they are! BTW, I'm very sorry that your fine looking SA 1911 fell apart. Hope they make it right for you! Steven L.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 4:28:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By sesat_ram: [size=3]Dale, could you please post a close up picture of where the steel fractured? Thanks[/size=3]
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Link Posted: 11/25/2002 4:37:49 PM EST
Sesat look at Phil in Seattle pic on the first page it looks like that. Now stop YELLING at me I am watching a movie. Ummm Sandra Bullock.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 4:50:21 PM EST
I agree also that this looks very much like a [i]cast[/i] piece.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 5:13:17 PM EST
Post your question here. There is a Springfield specific group for more info. [url]http://www.1911forum.com/[/url] Deb from Springfield reads the posts in the Springfield section, and is usually quick to reply. There is a TON of good 1911 info at this site in general.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 5:22:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter: I agree also that this looks very much like a [i]cast[/i] piece.
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I was wondering the same thing. Does forged metal look like that?
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 6:08:08 PM EST
Sorry Dale. Failure analysis is like porn to some of us. Unfff more.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 8:05:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/25/2002 8:08:45 PM EST by squeezecockerp7m8]
According to the Springfield website: "Every Springfield 1911 begins with a forged frame and slide as the foundation for a true custom-quality pistol. In addition, Springfield forged frames and slides are hardened in the tradition of John Browning's discriminating specifications. While some of today's 1911 manufacturers use investment castings or non-standard specifications when producing their components, Springfield's commitment to quality remains absolutely stringent, as does its dedication to the grand and honored tradition of the 1911." ...very interesting.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 8:36:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: You wuss! Who cares about warranties? Haven't you ever heard of superglue?
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Superglue?! JB Weld?! Screw that, use duct tape! [;)] Pretty neat breakage line. Almost like it was made that way.
Link Posted: 11/25/2002 9:00:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By GreenTalon: I sure am glad I bought Glocks instead of Springfield Armory equipment. I'd rather not lose the front of my Slide, kind of makes aiming and shooting difficult. Sorry this is all tongue in cheek here, just playing off the Glock Kaboom posts, and how overblown they are! BTW, I'm very sorry that your fine looking SA 1911 fell apart. Hope they make it right for you! Steven L.
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Yeah, now all you have to worry about is your gun blowing up! [:)]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 2:54:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By squeezecockerp7m8: According to the Springfield website: "Every Springfield 1911 begins with a forged frame and slide as the foundation for a true custom-quality pistol. In addition, Springfield forged frames and slides are hardened in the tradition of John Browning's discriminating specifications. While some of today's 1911 manufacturers use investment castings or non-standard specifications when producing their components, Springfield's commitment to quality remains absolutely stringent, as does its dedication to the grand and honored tradition of the 1911." ...very interesting.
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Sorry...sounds like it's time to sound the BS alert! [}:D]
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