User Panel
Posted: 7/23/2013 10:25:09 AM EST
Has anyone else seen this email from the guys at Maxon's in IL?
I'm on their email list for their monthly indoor shoots. The guy sounds pretty George, George, George
I've told you all along. From the first moment we met until we parted I sang the same song over and over again. The best fight to win is the fight you can avoid. The second song I sang is that if you only have a gun to defend your life you are going to use your gun. George Zimmerman didn't listen. He didn't hear it. He didn't understand it. Thats the crime. The crime of putting all your eggs in one basket. George Zimmerman bet his life and the life of Travon Martin on his gun. They both lost. Sure, George Zimmerman survived the gun battle and the criminal prosecution battle but he will ultimately lose everything he owns in a wrongful death civil suit. It doesn't matter that he was acquitted of murder. It doesn't matter that he was acquitted of manslaughter. It doesn't matter that the "stand your ground law" saved him from a lifetime in prison. The burden of proof in George Zimmerman's criminal trial was on the state to find him guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". If we quantify that burden on a 1 to 100 scale, that means that the state had to convince those jurors that George Zimmerman was almost overwhelmingly guilty. A big burden. Somewhere in the 90-95% range. In a wrongful death civil case for money damages the family of Travon Martin only has to prove by a "preponderance of the evidence" that George Zimmerman had taken Travon Martins life wrongfully. Again, to quantify that burden the Martin's only need to prove by 51% that George Zimmerman had wrongfully taken Travon Martin's life. 51% is a pretty easy burden. Just about a slam dunk. George will fight this battle but its outcome is almost certain. George will lose this battle and it will cost him everything he has now and for the foreseeable future. Every penny, nickel, quarter and dollar George has or will earn will be taken by the Martin's. George Zimmerman might as well be in prison or dead. Who will hire him? Who wants to rent him an apartment? Who would date him? Who even wants to be seen with him? For all practical purposes, George Zimmerman's life is over. If George Zimmerman had just done what he was supposed to do... a) call 911and report his suspicions b) observe the suspicious person from a safe distance until the police arrive c) continue to keep a safe distance from the suspicious person d) if the suspicious person approached him LEAVE the area & update the police If George had met the Travon Martin with equal or slightly greater force Travon Martin would be alive today and George Zimmerman's future would exist. George Zimmerman should have: a) advised the suspicious person the police had been notified b) IF George decided to meet the threat can he do so with LESS Lethal force ? Did George Zimmerman have any "less lethal" options? NO. 1) Verbal Compliance ? NO. 2) Baton ? NO. 2) Pepper Spray ? NO 3) Hi power, strobing flashlight? NO. All George Zimmerman had was a gun... so he used a gun. You see George's crime wasn't that he shot and killed a younger, tougher, bigger, stronger, up to no good person with juvenile delinquency record, a criminal record and a record of drug use. His crime was that he wasn't prepared. He had no options besides using his gun. This is why the Police have a variety of weapons with them at all times. To meet force with equal or slightly greater force. You need to learn from George Zimmerman's mistakes. Practice verbal compliance. Get a baton, some pepper spray, a high power strobing flashlight and some training to use these less lethal weapons proficiently. If you use them and they fail and you move up a notch at a time while defending yourself, your self defense attorney will make you out to be a hero who didn't want to take a life but was forced to when all else failed and your life hung in the balance. Employ S.T.O.P. "S" SITUATIONAL AWARENESS "T" THINK about whether you should stay or leave the area "O" OPTIONS - What are your less lethal (and lethal) options "P" PROTECT MY LIFE - D R A W Unfortunately George Zimmerman STOPPED at GUN. Next stop... BANKRUPTCY COURT !!! Nice job George. Jerry Novak Attorney at Law Licensed Private Detective (armed) NRA Certified Firearms Instructor IL Licensed Firearms Instructor UTAH Certified CCW Instructor UTAH Bail Enforcement Firearms Instructor Certified Oleoresin Capsicum (Pepper Spray) Instructor Member Int. Assn. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors View Quote |
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The man is 100% correct.
FOR YOU FOLKS ENTERING LATE, I HAVE RETRACTED MY STATEMENT ABOVE. SO MOVE PAST THIS POINT WITHOUT BITCHING, UNLESS YOU ARE SIMPLY AN ASSHOLE. |
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Maybe if he listened more and talked less he would know that Florida law gives people who acted in self defense immunity from civil suits.
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I got half-way through and was looking for his sales pitch.... meh
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Has anyone else seen this email from the guys at Maxon's in IL? I'm on their email list for their monthly indoor shoots. The guy sounds pretty George, George, George
I've told you all along. From the first moment we met until we parted I sang the same song over and over again. The best fight to win is the fight you can avoid. The second song I sang is that if you only have a gun to defend your life you are going to use your gun. George Zimmerman didn't listen. He didn't hear it. He didn't understand it. Thats the crime. The crime of putting all your eggs in one basket. George Zimmerman bet his life and the life of Travon Martin on his gun. They both lost. Sure, George Zimmerman survived the gun battle and the criminal prosecution battle but he will ultimately lose everything he owns in a wrongful death civil suit. It doesn't matter that he was acquitted of murder. It doesn't matter that he was acquitted of manslaughter. It doesn't matter that the "stand your ground law" saved him from a lifetime in prison. The burden of proof in George Zimmerman's criminal trial was on the state to find him guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". If we quantify that burden on a 1 to 100 scale, that means that the state had to convince those jurors that George Zimmerman was almost overwhelmingly guilty. A big burden. Somewhere in the 90-95% range. In a wrongful death civil case for money damages the family of Travon Martin only has to prove by a "preponderance of the evidence" that George Zimmerman had taken Travon Martins life wrongfully. Again, to quantify that burden the Martin's only need to prove by 51% that George Zimmerman had wrongfully taken Travon Martin's life. 51% is a pretty easy burden. Just about a slam dunk. George will fight this battle but its outcome is almost certain. George will lose this battle and it will cost him everything he has now and for the foreseeable future. Every penny, nickel, quarter and dollar George has or will earn will be taken by the Martin's. George Zimmerman might as well be in prison or dead. Who will hire him? Who wants to rent him an apartment? Who would date him? Who even wants to be seen with him? For all practical purposes, George Zimmerman's life is over. If George Zimmerman had just done what he was supposed to do... a) call 911and report his suspicions b) observe the suspicious person from a safe distance until the police arrive c) continue to keep a safe distance from the suspicious person d) if the suspicious person approached him LEAVE the area & update the police If George had met the Travon Martin with equal or slightly greater force Travon Martin would be alive today and George Zimmerman's future would exist. George Zimmerman should have: a) advised the suspicious person the police had been notified b) IF George decided to meet the threat can he do so with LESS Lethal force ? Did George Zimmerman have any "less lethal" options? NO. 1) Verbal Compliance ? NO. 2) Baton ? NO. 2) Pepper Spray ? NO 3) Hi power, strobing flashlight? NO. All George Zimmerman had was a gun... so he used a gun. You see George's crime wasn't that he shot and killed a younger, tougher, bigger, stronger, up to no good person with juvenile delinquency record, a criminal record and a record of drug use. His crime was that he wasn't prepared. He had no options besides using his gun. This is why the Police have a variety of weapons with them at all times. To meet force with equal or slightly greater force. You need to learn from George Zimmerman's mistakes. Practice verbal compliance. Get a baton, some pepper spray, a high power strobing flashlight and some training to use these less lethal weapons proficiently. If you use them and they fail and you move up a notch at a time while defending yourself, your self defense attorney will make you out to be a hero who didn't want to take a life but was forced to when all else failed and your life hung in the balance. Employ S.T.O.P. "S" SITUATIONAL AWARENESS "T" THINK about whether you should stay or leave the area "O" OPTIONS - What are your less lethal (and lethal) options "P" PROTECT MY LIFE - D R A W Unfortunately George Zimmerman STOPPED at GUN. Next stop... BANKRUPTCY COURT !!! Nice job George. Jerry Novak Attorney at Law Licensed Private Detective (armed) NRA Certified Firearms Instructor IL Licensed Firearms Instructor UTAH Certified CCW Instructor UTAH Bail Enforcement Firearms Instructor Certified Oleoresin Capsicum (Pepper Spray) Instructor Member Int. Assn. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors View Quote View Quote I love when some yankee twit lawyer spouts off on FLORIDA LAW. Zim is headed to an IMMUNITY HEARING. He will be granted IMMUNITY in civil proceedings in Florida. |
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Z was jumped after he was on his way back to the truck was he not?
T JUMPED HIM. That thug wasn't interested in talking at that point. I thought Fla law shielded persons who were found not guilty in a self defense case from civil cases. Perhaps not from the Gestapo in DC but the baby momma/daddy couldn't sue |
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The man is 100% correct. View Quote Damn right. I know I keep my baton next to my OC next to my tazer next to my rubber bullet gun next to my pistol. That way I can properly select which deterrent I will choose in order to just ever-so-slightly have the force advantage over mine adversary. Queensberry rules, whatwhat? |
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The man is 100% correct. View Quote No, he's not. Based on that email, I should be carrying a baton, mace, etc. just in case I run into a guy that I can't beat up, that ends up beating on me, because I shouldn't shoot someone but instead should use equal or slightly greater force. Fuck, that. ETA - Of course, LoBrau beat me to it. |
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Lots of fail.
1) There will be no wrongful death lawsuit 2) The stand your ground law was not the basis of his defense Both in the first quarter of the letter. Pretty sad for a lawyer to get those things that wildly wrong. |
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Florida thank you for your opinion. The only judgment left is between him and God judging him is over by us as far as tis concern. he got jumped on the way back to his car and by the letter DRAW.
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You mean 10%? He know nothing about Fl. law. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes This. George made mistakes....but Martin was the aggressor in the confrontation...the jury agreed and didn't even have all the facts on Martin's history (and were presumably colored by the media going into it from the Martin/Crump team's fabrication and little boy pictures). Zimmerman stands to make a lot of money....his suit against NBC for the tape editing? A suit against the network who put out the 'recreation' (animation) of him shooting Martin from a distance...etc...etc.....and, if O'Mara does even a minimal fraction as well in his immunity hearing as he did in the trial...Zimmerman's protected against civil suits. AFARR |
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You should return the email with a note attached: Don't send me any more stoopid shit like this piece of crap. |
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I call BS. As a lawyer, he damned well knows that "Stand Your Ground" was not used. I say BS, or he's no lawyer.
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So... George "survived the gun battle"?
That's as far as I got. |
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The man is 100% correct. View Quote I thought FL law provided for immunity from civil suit, George was disengaging / leaving when he was essentially sucker punched and that he was already on the ground getting his head bashed into the sidewalk before he had a chance to fight back, rendering the whole 'escalating use of force' bit moot? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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For an attorney he is really fucking uninformed about Florida law as well as the facts of the case
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I said he was correct because:
Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reaon to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. |
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The words of an attorney from the state that has given us two liberty squelching petit tyrant special interest lawyers as presidents......sounds about right.
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reason to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. View Quote Not true. Trayvon approached Zimmerman Now, please show us where Zimmerman instigated the fight. |
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- There are an awful lot of assumptions in the e-mail.
- 'Ground and pound' IS deadly force. Get it through your thick skull. He met deadly force with deadly force. - So now Joe SixPack is supposed to walk around with a duty belt with his cell, a baton, OC spray, a flashlight and his sidearm? Quoted:
He had no legal right nor reaon to approach him. View Quote Next time someone walks up to you on the street call the cops and see if they arrest the person. |
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Not true. Trayvon approached Zimmerman Now, please show us where Zimmerman instigated the fight. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reason to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. Not true. Trayvon approached Zimmerman Now, please show us where Zimmerman instigated the fight. By following him.......... |
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Protip Lawyerman, If you're going to spout off about the Zimmerman case, you might want to educate yourself on the fucking facts. |
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reason to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. Not true. Trayvon approached Zimmerman Now, please show us where Zimmerman instigated the fight. By following him.......... |
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reason to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. Not true. Trayvon approached Zimmerman Now, please show us where Zimmerman instigated the fight. By following him.......... Public sidewalk. Zimmerman has as much legal right to walk there as Martin or anyone else. He then has the right to defend himself in a place he is legal to be in. |
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He is wrong. GZ was in a lethal threat situation. He responded with the correct level of force.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Following does not equal approach, If you think someone is in your neighborhood to cause trouble and damage you have every right to follow / keep an eye on them.
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reaon to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. View Quote Who says he approached him? nvm saw your last post... IL, go figure. |
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The man is 100% correct. View Quote This is what I don't see the forum understanding. GZ may have been in the clear to kill for fear of severe bodily injury but it will ruin him for life. If I were him I would leave the country ASAP before a civil suit is filed. He will be railroaded in that light if not. |
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I said he was correct because: Zimmerman was not an LEO and Martin was not committing a crime. He had no legal right nor reaon to approach him. Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around, an LEO coudl have approached Martin and Zimmerman's life would not now be what it is. It doesn't matter that Zimmerman was justified in his shooting. Had he used his brain, he would not be where he is. I am not saying his motives were bad, just his judgement. I agree that once Martin overpowered Zimmerman, he was justified in shooting if he feared for his life. I am saying he never should have placed himslef in that situation. Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it. Zimmerman went a little too far and it cost him more than he planned. View Quote Well... He had no legal right nor reaon to approach him - Nothing wrong with approaching someone and talking with them. But Zimmerman didn't approach Martin Had Zimmerman used his brain and kept his distance while Martin simply walked around - Zimmerman hadn't seen Martin for almost 4 minutes, how far away should he have been? Any self defense expert worth his shit will tell you to avoid the fight, not instigate it - What evidence is there Zimmerman instigated the fight? Rachel Jeantel has stated Martin approached and confronted Zimmerman. She also believes Martin threw the first punch and was beating up Zimmerman, giving him a whoop-ass beating. She also thinks Martin would have stopped before killing Zimmerman. There's a lot of room for interpretation there, how badly would have Martin beat up Zimmerman if the shot hadn't been fired. |
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Quoted: Do you mean Obama and .......Lincoln? Or Maybe Reagan....he was from Illinois? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The words of an attorney from the state that has given us two liberty squelching petit tyrant special interest lawyers as presidents......sounds about right. Do you mean Obama and .......Lincoln? Or Maybe Reagan....he was from Illinois? Yeah Reagan, the guy whose house the University of Chicago is planning to raze. I said petit tyrant not misguided dunderhead |
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Well, ever since that day, Zimmerman's life has been fucked. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to become a cake walk any time soon. If he hadn't followed, hadn't gotten out of the car, and hadn't been such a pussy, he would be a lot better off right now.
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What I find hillarious about ARFCOM is how much anger is directed toward a simple difference of opinion about an incident that not a single person (including me) has any first-hand knowledge of.
The one thing I would bet on is this...if you could privately ask Zimmerman if he would do anything differently if he had the chance to do it again,I would bet money he would stay in the car and stay on the phone with the cops. |
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When your life hangs in the balance, seconds will get you killed. That is why Law Enforcement has been shooting first and asking questions later. This guy obviously has never been in a force on force situation.
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