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Posted: 2/1/2011 4:48:49 AM EDT
[#1]
In before someone posts the pic with the backwards Aimpoint ...
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:02:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Was danger so imminent that the safety had to be off?
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:03:53 AM EDT
[#3]
They will blame remingon.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:07:05 AM EDT
[#4]
ESU cops were trying to arrest Alberto Colon, 41, when a detective trying to activate the flashlight on his weapon accidentally fired it, hitting the suspect's father.
I'm begining to rethink the role of flashlights on weapons. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:45:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
ESU cops were trying to arrest Alberto Colon, 41, when a detective trying to activate the flashlight on his weapon accidentally fired it, hitting the suspect's father.
I'm begining to rethink the role of flashlights on weapons. At least the notion that a weapon mounted light is appropriate for a search. 
Just because you've got a weapon mounted light does not mean you don't need a stand alone flashlight. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:50:00 AM EDT
[#6]
They're the only ones professional enough to handle firearms....
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:52:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
ESU cops were trying to arrest Alberto Colon, 41, when a detective trying to activate the flashlight on his weapon accidentally fired it, hitting the suspect's father.
I'm begining to rethink the role of flashlights on weapons. Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:53:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Remington moment
Here in Memphis several years ago the SWAT team had a 'Remington Moment' before it was called that. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:57:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. As usual, J_W777 nails it again. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 6:02:51 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. As usual, J_W777 nails it again. Here Here |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:21:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. As usual, J_W777 nails it again. Here Here Hear, hear. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
They will blame remingon. From what I've heard, that was tried... and it failed. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:24:21 AM EDT
[#13]
I've never had a negligent discharge and I'm not an "elite" police officer.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:24:49 AM EDT
[#14]
"When people get in trouble, they call the police. When the police get in trouble, they call ESU."
Maybe if they didn't spend so much time racing the FD to car accidents, they'd know how to handle their weapons better. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:27:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
ESU cops were trying to arrest Alberto Colon, 41, when a detective trying to activate the flashlight on his weapon accidentally fired it, hitting the suspect's father.
I'm begining to rethink the role of flashlights on weapons. Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. Thats about the ONE thing our range guys get right..it getsd DRILLED into everyone's head to high index and keep your finger out of the trigger guard. If you want a Light? fine, but you had BETTER also have a Stand-alone (Working nights I carry FOUR flashlights aside from my TLR). The problem comed IMO from guys trying to activate the light with their trigger finger, instead of the Thumb of the support hand...as you're SUPPOSED TO. part of out night Qual is one-handed shooting, and I almost ND'd turning on the light. learned my lesson, THAT part of the course is done with another light. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:29:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: ESU cops were trying to arrest Alberto Colon, 41, when a detective trying to activate the flashlight on his weapon accidentally fired it, hitting the suspect's father. I'm begining to rethink the role of flashlights on weapons. Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. I have never been military or LEO, and even I know what one hand does the other wants to. That is why you are taught to keep the finger out the trigger guard, and the finger on the other hand straight. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 8:30:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
"When people get in trouble, they call the police. When the police get in trouble, they call ESU."
Maybe if they didn't spend so much time racing the FD to car accidents, they'd know how to handle their weapons better. This Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:02:25 AM EDT
[#18]
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:16:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. I was wondering how long it would take for you to show up.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:19:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. I was wondering how long it would take for you to show up.
I like how in the locked dupe thread the one guy said "At least they weren't covered up". 
Yeah, that's why it took 2 months for it to come out. They tried their hardest to cover up the Rockefeller Center "mishap". |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:21:56 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. I've always wondered why your ESU seems to be tac & esu all rolled into one. Do you think that it would be better to have a tac side and an esu side? |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:25:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. I've always wondered why your ESU seems to be tac & esu all rolled into one. Do you think that it would be better to have a tac side and an esu side? They shouldn't have them responding to car accidents and stuff of that nature. They are almost always beat to the scene by FD and then they stand around doing nothing. Meanwhile, 50% of the time we call for them it take them forever to show up. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:28:08 AM EDT
[#23]
It happens to the best of us, I guess.
 Though, I've been around guns since I was a teenage, and I've NEVER had an AD/ND. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:30:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pressure switches are more likely the culprit than the light itself. Under stress (whether the stress is from real events like incoming gunfire or the anticipation of something like gunfire) it's entirely possible for someone to try and squeeze the pressure switch and end up squeezing the trigger as well. Training matters...and unfortunately a lot of people doing these sorts of jobs don't seem to have enough weapons training, or have weapons training that doesn't emphasize the right things. As usual, J_W777 nails it again. Here Here Hear, hear. Training? What's that then?......................................... 
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:38:46 AM EDT
[#25]
I was a little startled to find out that SWAT courses range from 40 - 80 hours total. Combine that with the 40 hours devoted to weapons (including lecture times) in the Wisconsin academy, and that means that a good number of SWAT cops have far less than 80 hours of actual weapons training.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:39:24 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: It happens to the best of us, I guess. Though, I've been around guns since I was a teenage, and I've NEVER had an AD/ND. Yeah but you're not professional enough |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:46:59 AM EDT
[#27]
Yet the gun laws for civilians in NYC are STILL the absolute worst in the entire nation.
Lengthy, difficult, time consuming and expensive permitting process for owning handguns...another separate expensive and time consuming process for owning long guns...And most long guns are banned due to the NYC AWB (No evil features, nothing that can accept over 5 rounds...pretty much bans 90% of the guns out there). I would like to throw this in Bloomberg's face, but if it was up to him, most cops wouldn't even be allowed to carry guns in the first place. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Yet the gun laws for civilians in NYC are STILL the absolute worst in the entire nation. Lengthy, difficult, time consuming and expensive permitting process for owning handguns or long guns...most long guns are banned due to the NYC AWB (No evil features, nothing that can accept over 5 rounds...pretty much bans 90% of the guns out there). I would like to throw this in Bloomberg's face, but if it was up to him, most cops wouldn't even be allowed to carry guns in the first place. Unless you a celebrity and then you can just buy yourself a CCW for NYC. I almost think that is worse than a flat out ban. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:50:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yet the gun laws for civilians in NYC are STILL the absolute worst in the entire nation. Lengthy, difficult, time consuming and expensive permitting process for owning handguns or long guns...most long guns are banned due to the NYC AWB (No evil features, nothing that can accept over 5 rounds...pretty much bans 90% of the guns out there). I would like to throw this in Bloomberg's face, but if it was up to him, most cops wouldn't even be allowed to carry guns in the first place. Unless you a celebrity and then you can just buy yourself a CCW or NYC. I almost think that is worse than a flat out ban. Yeah all it takes is celebrity status...because somehow celebs are more prone to deadly attacks...so they get carry permits. NYC needs to be slapped by Alan Gura. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 9:52:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. I've always wondered why your ESU seems to be tac & esu all rolled into one. Do you think that it would be better to have a tac side and an esu side? In NYC, the more things your department has control of, the more political pull you have. Any FDNY truck company can handle a car accident or a stuck occupied elevator better than ESU. FDNY Rescue can handle building collapses better than ESU. But, the cops have more juice... so they show up at shit like that. Honestly, there is no reason why ESU couldn't just be a SWAT team. But, politics rules all (as I'm sure you know). |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 10:36:47 AM EDT
[#31]
SWAT teams should be just that. Having guys trained as medics on the team is fine...but when you give a group a million missions they will suck ass at all of them.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
SWAT teams should be just that. Having guys trained as medics on the team is fine...but when you give a group a million missions they will suck ass at all of them. That's ESU. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 11:49:33 AM EDT
[#33]
All the guys I know who work in ESU wish they were a SWAT only unit.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 1:25:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for the Rockefeller Center one to hit the news.
Maybe if they had better selection process for the unit some of this could be avoided also. Currently the process is basically "Which Chief is your dad?" or "Which hasidic rabbi is making a call for you?". They had a special on Nat Geo channel the other night showing alot of what ESU does. I'd say over 50% of the guys were very obviously overweight with some looking like Sgt. Sugar Cookie. Man I hadn't even heard about the rifle incident and I don't live too far away. Don't recall anything on the rant either! People always ask me why don't I put in for ESU, and then I have to explain how little interest I have in all the excess stuff ESU is supposed to handle. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 2:46:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
They're the only ones professional enough to handle firearms.... 
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Posted: 2/1/2011 2:53:21 PM EDT
[#36]
I find it ridiculous that Sgt. Tineesha Turkeyleg wasn't in that group of pics.
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Posted: 2/1/2011 3:13:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
I was a little startled to find out that SWAT courses range from 40 - 80 hours total. Combine that with the 40 hours devoted to weapons (including lecture times) in the Wisconsin academy, and that means that a good number of SWAT cops have far less than 80 hours of actual weapons training. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile MOST Swat/TAC/QRT/ESU/Whatever trams also tain once or twice a month, as opposed to the twice yearly that most regular road guys are mandated. figure anywhere from 8-16 hours a month. |
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Posted: 2/1/2011 5:59:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
They're the only ones professional enough to handle firearms.... http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z114/bobsgunsUSP/footrace1.jpg http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z114/bobsgunsUSP/footrace2.jpg http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z114/bobsgunsUSP/footrace3.jpg http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z114/bobsgunsUSP/footrace4.jpg http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=462146 
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