Electronic or Dial Locks on your safe?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electronic or Dial Locks on your safe?

Posted: 5/29/2001 8:51:24 PM EDT

Mine is a Browning Gold series safe that I bought used for $650 non firelined.
It came with a S&G dial lock.
For me to upgrade for convenience, would cost me $400.00
Which,? I would rather put into a newer, bigger ,firelined safe
I need to upgrade

Posted: 5/29/2001 9:22:18 PM EDT

[#1]

Mine is firelined and has an electronic lock. I love the lock...I can get in the safe in 6 seconds...a real time saver when I'm running late for work in the morning and I need to put the bedside armament away for the day.

Posted: 5/29/2001 9:51:24 PM EDT

[#2]

I asked the same question over at TFL. The consensus was to get the electronic lock over the mechanical.

Take a look:

[url]http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=67470

Posted: 5/29/2001 10:00:22 PM EDT

[#3]

I chose the mechanical lock. I asked this question on the old board and a locksmith recommended the mechanical, though I forget his exact reasoning. For me I just felt safer with the mechanical lock, as saving ten seconds isn't that big of a deal to me.

BTW, PeaShooter, spend the money on a new safe. If you have lived with the one you got this long no sense blowing more cash on it. Just get an electronic lock on the new one of that is what you want.

Too, the wife paid for the safe so I had to keep costs down as well. Sucks being a kept man. [;)]

Posted: 5/30/2001 5:37:49 AM EDT

[#4]

Not to be too paranoid... BUT:

What about the effects of EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) which occurs with a nuclear blast. If a nuclear weapon is detonated in the atmosphere above the continental US, it could effectively wipe out all non-protected electronics for thousands of miles.

I realize that the odds of this occuring are fairly small , but this would really be a time that you WOULD need access to your firearms.
(imagine having to drill out the lock without power tools)

Although a bit slow to operate, a mechanical S&G lock that is properly maintained will probably work far past my lifetime.

Just my $.02

Here is an article to read (non-technical):

[url]www.insightmag.com/archive/200105284.shtml[/url]

Posted: 5/30/2001 5:44:17 AM EDT

[#5]

I will go with the old fashion way, the mechanical lock. The electronic one is not bad but any thief with a computer can crack your code in minutes by wire it up to your lock. With the mechanical one, you got to "drill" or "blow it up". See the movie "Die Hard"?

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:11:01 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I will go with the old fashion way, the mechanical lock. The electronic one is not bad but any thief with a computer can crack your code in minutes by wire it up to your lock. With the mechanical one, you got to "drill" or "blow it up". See the movie "Die Hard"?

View Quote

"Die Hard?" Oh yes, the movie whose sequel mentions the Glock (not sure which model) as being "ceramic," "Made in Germany," invisible to airposrt radar, and costing more than a cop makes in a month.

Yes - based on the obvious technical accuracy in this area I do have knowledge in, I can safely endorse the fact that the writers were equally technically correct about things I know less about, such as safe cracking. [;D]

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:34:12 AM EDT

[#7]

Forgot to mention one other thing.

I placed 90% of my guns in a large Amsec TL-30 fire safe (the "armorer model") in my basement and left the original S&G lock on it.
[img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/4.jpg[/img]

-----------------------------------

I took out 2 AR15's, an 870 shotgun and a few handguns and placed them in my bedroom gun safe. (much smaller and lower quality non-fireproof Guardall 6030)

[img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/1.jpg[/img]

-------------------------------------------
IT DOES have an electronic lock on it for quick access. (it's an Mas-Hamilton Auditcon lock)
The Auditcon gives me the ability to trigger a silent "duress" alarm by changing the last digit of the combo when opening the safe and it logs all activity which can then be viewed on a computer.

[img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/2.jpg[/img]

----------------------------------

Both safes are protected by vibration and heat sensing (for torch attacks) units placed inside and are on separate partitions on my security system. (allows for each to be armed while the rest of the house is disarmed)

[img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/3.jpg[/img]

----------------------------------------
I even avoid the electronic "gun vault" type containers. Under the bed, I keep my primary defense gun in a palmer security box with a mechanical simplex lock on it. (www.palmersecurity.com)

[img]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/5.jpg[/img]
I won't feel too bad knowing that I can always gain access to the majority of my guns in the basement safe should the bedroom safe get rendered useless.

I have to go polish my tinfoil hat now....

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:34:44 AM EDT

[#8]

I think Adam W is right. I hate the Die Hard series because it is so technically inaccurate. I have a mechanical lock on my safe. I don't ever have to worry about batteries. That is a good thing.

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:51:06 AM EDT

[#9]

I have the electronic lock. I wanted ease of access. With the electronic, I have a master combo and I can setup 4 or 5 more #'s which open the safe.

Downside.

Someone can come in and rip off the cover of the electronic lock.

Now how do I get in my safe? I'd have to order a replacement. Time and $.

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:58:44 AM EDT

[#10]

Speaking of safes...

This past weekend I was at a antique funiture auction. Right inside the door was an old safe. It was about 5' wide and about 6' tall. It opened up from the middle outwards. The doors each were about 1' thick. They also were angled. The insides had small shelves and another safe in the lower right. Safe inside a safe. :) A few of the small shelves had metal coverings on them with small holes which I guess were keylocks at one time.

I'm guessing this was a big jewlery safe. It must weigh a few tons! Not much space inside for guns but it was interesting. I can't remember the brand but on the inside it was labeled Buffalo NY.

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:00:38 AM EDT

[#11]

I have had a National Security safe for several years. It has the S&G mechanical lock. Electronic locks were not an option when I got my safe. I would consider one if I got another safe.

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:16:05 AM EDT

[#12]

I have a fort knox with an electronic lock. I know that you are all going to laugh, but, after reading RBAD's post, I am rethinking this whole thing!

Is this nuclear stuff for real? I did some surfing and it scare the heck out of me. A SINGLE nuke detonated over the center of the country could take out most of the power grid and most electronic appliances. I'd be shit out of luck if it killed my gun safe lock.

Does anyone know if it's hard to replace the electronic lock with a traditional dial lock?

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:21:12 AM EDT

[#13]

I have both, the dail and a elect. The safe with the elect is way faster and can be done at night. No way can you do the combo of a dail in the dark.

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:26:46 AM EDT

[#14]

A piece of tin foil (shiney side out) will protect your electronic locks from EMP attack.

The electronic lock is faster and simplier to operate - I can do mine in the dark.

The battery comparment is accessable from the outside so changing the 9V battery isn't an issue. I change it every year when I do the fire detectors and alarm sensors.

Mine has a lifetime coverage against damage caused by burglars. They'll replace any portion of the safe damaged. I wonder how much it costs to mail a 900 pound safe across country - lots of stamps I suppose.

Posted: 5/30/2001 10:16:53 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
A piece of tin foil (shiney side out) will protect your electronic locks from EMP attack.

View Quote

Are you serious about this??? I've now spent the better part of today researching this topic and would to tend to think that this would NOT do a bit of good.

I never realized how vulnerable we are to this! One single terrorist attack could conceivably knock out the infrastructure of the whole country !

I've decided to buy another safe with a mechanical lock and move most of my stuff to it.

Hey RBAD : The walls on that AMSEC safe look really thick. Where did you buy it from?

Posted: 5/30/2001 10:25:39 AM EDT

[#16]

It's best to get the electronic upgrade at the time you purchase the safe, which should run $100+ more. The $400 fee occurs when the official locksmith does the upgrade, which should be required for the Browning warrantee.

Posted: 5/30/2001 10:49:45 AM EDT

[#17]

The EMP concern is really a valid one. This is not a matter of paranoia, but rather common sense. Consider the possibility of some sort of accident, not necessarily an attack. It's not always a matter of tin foil issues.

"What if's" aren't always paranoia or incorrect either. Think for one second- The day you need your equipment most you can't get it- Unless you have a torch.

Posted: 5/30/2001 10:59:42 AM EDT

[#18]

HEY GUYS ... THINK !!!

MS70 is right on target.

This could really be devestating and I've noticed that everyone here (including me) has been advocating the use of digital locks.

Imagine ALL OF YOUR GUNS LOCKED AWAY FOR LIFE!

Check this out:

[url]www.netoriginals.com/uss/weapons.html[/url]

Posted: 5/30/2001 11:36:15 AM EDT

[#19]

I purchased a little known security device for my electronic/digital FORT KNOX safe when I custom ordered it---

It's called the "TTEMPTU".
Teeny Tiny Electro Magnetic Pulse Tactical Unit.

A bunch of little tiny guys inside the lock with pieces of shiny side out tin foil shields...

Posted: 5/30/2001 12:22:46 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
A bunch of little tiny guys inside the lock with pieces of shiny side out tin foil shields...

View Quote

You might laugh, but this is actually one of the considerations that I thought about when ordering my safe. Ya never know what can happen in this crazy ass world.

Definitely do NOT leave all of your weaponry in a safe protected by an electronic lock. Like M70 said, I'd hate to have to cut my way into my safe in a SHTF scenario.

Posted: 5/30/2001 12:58:46 PM EDT

[#21]

Believe me when I tell you I'm NOT laughing...
Some months after I got the safe, I decided to change the battery, using the specified brand in the FORT KNOX manual.
I must not have read carefully enough, because I didn't open the door 1st. I changed it with the door closed and the lock didn't work after putting in a new battery. Or the other new battery. I contacted FORT KNOX, and they shipped me a new lock ASAP. BTW, the code isn't in the lock, as I was able to unplug the lock and punch in my code---PRESTO!---the safe opened.
Maybe a shiny side out foil covered extra lock in a lead box kept in a cool dry place...
I did not like having all my eggs in one basket after that incident. I've modified my storage somewhat since then...
The lock was the problem, not my actions, but, I was duly warned and learned a valuable lesson.
If you have the digital lock, don't store all your guns in THAT safe.
If you have the regular dial lock, make sure the batteries in your FLASHLIGHT are working!
I'm debating the changeover to the dial lock or another Super Duty safe from FORT KNOX.
This is a great thread. A real thinker.

Posted: 5/30/2001 3:24:43 PM EDT

[#22]

I have a Remington safe that will hold 25 guns. It has a mechanical lock. Only one problem, NO ONE knows the combination but me (not even my wife)! I guess if I die unexpectedly, they will have to torch it open! [pyro]

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:31:54 PM EDT

[#23]

I'm with RBAD. Mechanical is the way to go. No worries about EMP or batteries, or technocritter hackers.

Posted: 5/30/2001 6:45:33 PM EDT

[#24]

A nuke in the sky is a percurser to one on the ground. Ever read the Effects Of Thermonuclear War? I dont think there will be much need for much in the way of firearms. Water will be the hot commodity. If you survive you will die soon from the Nuk radiation.

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:30:15 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
A nuke in the sky is a percurser to one on the ground. Ever read the Effects Of Thermonuclear War? I dont think there will be much need for much in the way of firearms. Water will be the hot commodity. If you survive you will die soon from the Nuk radiation.

View Quote

Very true indeed ... But what I am also concerned about is a wacko country or group just doing an atmospheric blast for the EMP effects only.

As far as the water goes:

Damn.. While I was playing digital photographer today, I missed snapping pics of my stockpile of Y2K blue water barrels [:D] .

Posted: 5/30/2001 7:56:35 PM EDT

[#26]

A: Save the foil to line the ceiling along with the coat hangers to keep out the brain scanning satellites.
B: Doesn't matter if you use an electronic or mechanical lock, there's always a possibilty that the lock will fail, both types do on occasion.
C: Try to hurry home from work and open the safe BEFORE the airburst, so you can hold on to your favorite gun while you fry.
D: If you like the electronic lock, by all means buy it, they are very safe and reliable, just stick with the big names like S&G or Mas-Hamilton Etc...

Posted: 5/30/2001 8:44:28 PM EDT

[#27]

Its2234me beat me to it...however, for those who are jumping on the nuke scare bandwagon, take a look at this...it's MUCH better than foil around your lock!

http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

Posted: 5/30/2001 8:50:56 PM EDT

[#28]

Jesus de Christo!

If a nuke comes my way?? Im not worried about getting to the safe!
I want to go out? Layin PIPE! [sex]

Posted: 5/30/2001 9:10:53 PM EDT

[#29]

I thought the military already has small emp devices to stop cars and stuff. Wasn't this was already out of the "black" realm? I think they were working on larger devices as well.

Not a tin-foil thing, I could have sworn I saw this on some Discovery or Learning Channel show.

Posted: 5/30/2001 9:53:59 PM EDT

[#30]

Like someone else suggested, just have both types. Electronic for speed, and mechanical in the event of global thermonuclear war. Would you like to play a game? [:D]

Posted: 11/29/2002 11:59:35 AM EDT

[#31]

Nuke goes off, Electronic lock on safe, Guns stay in safe forever, Need I say any more!

Posted: 11/29/2002 12:04:43 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Forgot to mention one other thing.

I placed 90% of my guns in a large Amsec TL-30 fire safe (the "armorer model") in my basement and left the original S&G lock on it.
[url]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/4.jpg[/url]

-----------------------------------

I took out 2 AR15's, an 870 shotgun and a few handguns and placed them in my bedroom gun safe. (much smaller and lower quality non-fireproof Guardall 6030)

[url]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/1.jpg[/url]

-------------------------------------------
IT DOES have an electronic lock on it for quick access. (it's an Mas-Hamilton Auditcon lock)
The Auditcon gives me the ability to trigger a silent "duress" alarm by changing the last digit of the combo when opening the safe and it logs all activity which can then be viewed on a computer.

[url]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/2.jpg[/url]

----------------------------------

Both safes are protected by vibration and heat sensing (for torch attacks) units placed inside and are on separate partitions on my security system. (allows for each to be armed while the rest of the house is disarmed)

[url]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/3.jpg[/url]

----------------------------------------
I even avoid the electronic "gun vault" type containers. Under the bed, I keep my primary defense gun in a palmer security box with a mechanical simplex lock on it. (www.palmersecurity.com)

[url]cedargrovepolice.net/rbad/5.jpg[/url]
I won't feel too bad knowing that I can always gain access to the majority of my guns in the basement safe should the bedroom safe get rendered useless.

I have to go polish my tinfoil hat now....

View Quote

TL-30 is the way to go, I am glad that someone besides myself saw beyond the shiny finishes on the Browning & Fort Knox safes (All that is needed to enter is a sazawall) & Bought a real Burglar proof safe!

Posted: 11/29/2002 12:22:32 PM EDT

[#33]

Mine is dial lock and I never lock the dial.

MM419

Posted: 11/29/2002 12:27:22 PM EDT

[#34]

S&G Electronics

Posted: 11/29/2002 12:30:06 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Would you like to play a game? [:D]

View Quote

I know that one! It from that cheeeeezy 80's hacker movie "WarGames". Don't they finally "win" by making the computer play tic-tac-toe with itself right before it launches all the nukes?

FOTBR

Posted: 11/29/2002 1:02:47 PM EDT

[#36]

I can get into my safe in 6 seconds and it is a mechanical dial.... well sometimes I can. I try and practice under stress.

Posted: 11/29/2002 1:24:38 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I will go with the old fashion way, the mechanical lock. The electronic one is not bad but any thief with a computer can crack your code in minutes by wire it up to your lock. With the mechanical one, you got to "drill" or "blow it up". See the movie "Die Hard"?

View Quote

But yet they still pass level II security requirements? I guess Die Hard get's their electronics the same place they get their million round magazines. I didn't watch Die Hard but sounds like I ought to so I can good sound technical advice on equipment vice talking with the safe guys at the store.

My electronic lock gives you exactly three shots at the 7 digit number before locking the safe for five minutes. Do the math you'll be sitting there with your computer for about a quarter of a million years before you work all the combinations. Bring a lunch.

I went with the electronics as I'm in my safe many times a day on the weekends. What's more important is to get the better level II lock vice the more common level I - mechanical or electrical.

In the event of an EMP blast we’re going to be very worried about much more then small arms. I’m within the blast radius of a 100 megaton weapon dropped on LA so a rifle ain’t going to do me much good.

[shock]

Posted: 11/29/2002 1:31:19 PM EDT

[#38]

[url]www.ecis.com/~mraudio/glock/diehardiiquote.htm[/url]

[i]"That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me. Know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It doesn't show up on your X-Ray machines here and it costs more than you make in a month!"[/i]
- Bruce Willis to Dennis Franz, Die Hard II, 1990

What's wrong with this quote? Everything! It's a typical Hollywood bashing of the guns that they love to hate (but don't hesitate to use in their movies to make money!). Here's a little rundown of the errors:

[list][*]There is no "Glock 7." Glock models begin at 17 and run through 36 currently.[/*]
[*]Glocks are made from polymer and steel, and contain no ceramics. No ceramic Glocks or any other guns have ever been made, except perhaps as experiments. Ceramics are too brittle for most gun applications. [/*]
[*]Glocks are made in Austria, not Germany.[/*]
[*]Glocks, significant portions being steel, show up on airport X-Ray machines.[/*]
[*]I'd guess that the head of airport security in Chicago makes more than $600 a month.[/*][/list]

So, now you know.

-Troy

Posted: 11/29/2002 1:48:42 PM EDT

[#39]

I know when it comes to bank locks, the safest are the non mas-hamilton type. Spin comb's are stronger and don't break down as much as the electronic counterpart. When we end up replacing locks, 9/10 are mas hamiltons. Not to mention when ya don't change your comb often the buttons get worn and a small comb is easy to guess when ya know which numbers to pick from

Posted: 11/29/2002 2:56:43 PM EDT

[#40]

Putting my tinfoil hat on- though I agree water will be a much more sought after commodity, the effects of a couple terrorist bombs would be localized, except for EMP, and whether or not you wind up in harms way will be the whim of the air currents and weather.

After 48 hours, quite a bit of the radiation is gone, after 2 weeks, it's far safer again.

Incidentally, vacuum tubes are not susceptible to EMP, and have heard that some countries have kept them in some critical devices for this very reason.

Posted: 11/29/2002 3:36:42 PM EDT

[#41]

Aside from EMP concerns, electronic locks are more likely to be damaged by fire. Just a little heat could melt the keypad or wire insulation, leaving the lock inoperable. In contrast, most mechanical locks will withstand considerable heat.

Posted: 11/29/2002 5:20:32 PM EDT

[#42]

Neither! My wife's uncle was a locksmith, and he made a good living that included repairing locks on safes. I've heard too many stories from him to trust the lock on a safe. Also, I work for an armored car company, so I've personally seen a lot of problems with locks on safes. I've help break into a few for customers [:)]. That was fun. Granted most of these locks were old and/or stored improperly (example, a safe at a restaurant that was stored near salt or one beside the freezer so it was always damp and the lock rusted or one stored in an unheated room, etc.), but you do plan on keeping yours for the rest of your life, don't you? I'm not trusting a mechanical lock with my guns, much less an electronic one. My guns are in a small closet behind a locked metal door. If I had to (for example, the key broke-off in the lock or the tumblers seized), I could get to them using an axe or a saw to go through the wall. If man can build it, it can break.z

Posted: 11/29/2002 6:05:27 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
If man can build it, it can break.z

View Quote

I think this is a good point. Even if an EMP pulse freezes your lock, assuming you have some reasonable tools you will still be able to get in your safe. It will just take a few hours. If you live anywhere near a potential ground zero, you might not have that time; but if that is not the case, EMP would be manageable.

In the much more likely event of needing to get into your safe FAST without EMP, the electronic lock will be better. And it is probably a little safer to prevent a break-in.

It makes sense to be better prepare for the more likely scenarios. Play the odds.

Posted: 11/29/2002 7:04:57 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
I'm with RBAD. Mechanical is the way to go. No worries about EMP or batteries, or technocritter hackers.

View Quote

Ditto, mechanical here.

Watch Goldeneye for a sample of what can happen with an EMP thingy.

Oh ya, those of you with those ATM keypad "smart/dummy" guns will be SOL too.

[b][i]ALL YOUR SMART GUNS/SAFES ARE BELONG TO US![/I][/B]

Posted: 11/29/2002 7:08:43 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I thought the military already has small emp devices to stop cars and stuff. Wasn't this was already out of the "black" realm? I think they were working on larger devices as well.

Not a tin-foil thing, I could have sworn I saw this on some Discovery or Learning Channel show.

View Quote

Discovery Channel. The people were in the house and all of a sudden their computer froze and [b]FBI[/b] popped up on the screen. Then that helo dropped that EMP thing and all electronic things went dead. The JBT's proceeded to kick in the door and cuff the culprits.

That "active" camo thing was pretty cool too.

Posted: 11/30/2002 3:06:40 AM EDT

[#46]

I have a manual locked safe with most of my stuff in it. In my digital safe, I have most of my ammo, spare parts (lots) and just a few weapons. I keep a GI flashlight (red lense) on it, to enable seeing the pad in the dark.
Some of the ammo will be finding a new home after this post. Thanks.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Electronic or Dial Locks on your safe?

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