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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/19/2006 10:08:59 AM EDT
I want to add a GFCI outlet ,where an existing outlet is. What do I need to do or have done/ Am planning on installing a dishwasher. Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:12:19 AM EDT
There is no need to GFCI protect a dishwasher. The dishwasher might even trip the GFCI.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:13:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ark-and-spark:
There is no need to GFCI protect a dishwasher. The dishwasher might even WILL trip the GFCI.



Seen it a million times.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:15:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 10:17:35 AM EDT by out-a-ammo]
Install it and test it. If your wiring is grounded properly, it should work fine.

If there are wires continuing from the outlet, you have to determine whether or not you want them protected. If not, hook them all on the line side, if you do, hook them on the load side.


Edit: As stated above dishwashers are not normally on a protected circuit.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:15:46 AM EDT
ok, thanks guys.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:54:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By out-a-ammo:
Install it and test it. If your wiring is grounded properly, it should work fine.





A GFCI receptacle does not need a GROUND to work properly . A HOT and
a NEUTRAL are all that is needed . Sort of a misconception about how they work and what they are used for .
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 11:42:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By djohns6:

Originally Posted By out-a-ammo:
Install it and test it. If your wiring is grounded properly, it should work fine.





A GFCI receptacle does not need a GROUND to work properly . A HOT and
a NEUTRAL are all that is needed . Sort of a misconception about how they work and what they are used for .



GFCI works by sensing voltage differences between hot and neutral, if there is any difference it trips. You also should not use GFCI's on fridges and gas stoves.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 12:49:19 PM EDT
A GFCI receptacle does not need a GROUND to work properly . A HOT and
a NEUTRAL are all that is needed . Sort of a misconception about how they work and what they are used for. GFCI works by sensing voltage differences between hot and neutral, if there is any difference it trips. You also should not use GFCI's on fridges and gas stoves.

+1
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:01:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arbiter:
A GFCI receptacle does not need a GROUND to work properly . A HOT and
a NEUTRAL are all that is needed . Sort of a misconception about how they work and what they are used for. GFCI works by sensing voltage current differences between hot and neutral, if there is any difference it trips. You also should not use GFCI's on fridges and gas stoves.

+1



Now I will agree.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:05:18 PM EDT

GFCI works by sensing voltage differences between hot and neutral, if there is any difference it trips.

No, it looks at the current. If there is any imbalance between the hot and neutral, it will trip. Looking at the voltage between the hot and neutral wouldn't work, because that changes greatly as you turn on and off appliances and other items in your house.z
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:28:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:35:43 PM EDT
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:41:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.



Tell me that after one saves your daughters life from the hairdryer getting knocked into the bathtub by accident.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:42:06 PM EDT

People got by just fine for years with regular outlets

No they didn't. People died. When growing-up, I can hearing about someone dieing from electrocution in their own home about every week or so. Now, I can't remember hearing about that in almost six months. Better insulation on wires, polarized outlets, ground wires, and GFCI's save lives.z
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:43:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ZW17:

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.



Tell me that after one saves your daughters life from the hairdryer getting knocked into the bathtub by accident.



Pretty simple solution there...unplug the fucking hairdryer after you are finished with it.

Then again, common sense ain't so common.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:49:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redcap:

Originally Posted By ZW17:

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.



Tell me that after one saves your daughters life from the hairdryer getting knocked into the bathtub by accident.



Pretty simple solution there...unplug the fucking hairdryer after you are finished with it.

Then again, common sense ain't so common.



Didn't I read a book that you wrote called "How to Win Friends and Influence People"? Oh wait, you didn't write that book...
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 2:18:48 PM EDT
I'm NOT an expert, but I was an apprentice electrician for about 9 months last year.

I would not put a GFCI on a dishwasher, none of the houses I wired (120+) had a GFCI there. We put them on the outlets in the kitchens and bathrooms, and all the exterior outlets.

You should have one or more hot wires coming into the box. One is always line (leads back to the panel) and the others are load, leading away from the panel to other receptacles. If you want the other receps down the circuit to be protected, put the load wires into the load side of the GFCI and you're good to go. If you do NOT want them protected, put all the wires into the line side. If don't know what wire is line, most newer GFCI outlets have a little LED in them to show if it is mis-wired. If you have a voltmeter, I'd seperate the hot wires out, turn on the circuit, and test them to find out which is hot. This may be dangerous though, my employee(and teacher) wasn't exactly known for their safety practices.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:10:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 6:50:44 PM EDT by ZW17]

Originally Posted By Redcap:

Originally Posted By ZW17:

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.



Tell me that after one saves your daughters life from the hairdryer getting knocked into the bathtub by accident.



Pretty simple solution there...unplug the fucking hairdryer after you are finished with it.

Then again, common sense ain't so common.



Yeah and accidents never happen.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.



Let me go out on a limb here and say that YOU are one of those people that has NO clue how they work . Right ? It's OK , you can say it . We know .
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:47:22 PM EDT
If anyone wants to talk about a worthless POS electrical device. Lets talk about an AFCI. That is nothing but a trouble some worthless POS. Nothing more than manufactures pushing needless and costly stuff on the industry.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 3:59:16 PM EDT
In theory the AFCI is a damn good idea. But in reality it solves a problem that doesn't really exist.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:04:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redcap:
GFCI is pointless and expensive. People got by just fine for years with regular outlets until some fucktard egghead decided to make GFCI a requirement.




you should take heed to the post directly above yours.



People who don't know jack shit, please keep quiet, peoples lives are on the line.




Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:13:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
In theory the AFCI is a damn good idea. But in reality it solves a problem that doesn't really exist.



My understanding is the AFCIs were pushed to try to keep people from burning down their homes with space heaters. Number one trouble spot was the bedrooms, and people would be trying to continuously pull 15 amps from a 15 amp circuit with elect space heaters. Bad connections overheat, and problems ensue.

The AFCI is an attempt to stop this type failure, or so I was told.

Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:37:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
In theory the AFCI is a damn good idea. But in reality it solves a problem that doesn't really exist.



My understanding is the AFCIs were pushed to try to keep people from burning down their homes with space heaters. Number one trouble spot was the bedrooms, and people would be trying to continuously pull 15 amps from a 15 amp circuit with elect space heaters. Bad connections overheat, and problems ensue.

The AFCI is an attempt to stop this type failure, or so I was told.




Arc fault circuit interruptors are just what they say. They open the circuit in the event of an arc, not an over load. The way I was told is that people push their beds up against the receptacle on the wall of their bedroom and by stressing the cord on their lamp, etc cause an arc that can ignite their bed or other piece of furniture.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:38:12 PM EDT
licensed sparky here

gfi's around water are a good idea, the older code of with in 4 feet of the sink and the bathrooms etc etc was a good idea. now they are going over board, no need for a gfi on the counter 15 feet from the sink.

no need for a gfi on the dish washer, but some areas want them plugged in, to qualify as a disconnect means. so if it plugs in on the counter it should be under current code a gfi recpt
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 4:51:09 PM EDT
Good stuff said here from real Sparkies but I'll add:

How a GFCI works

No need for a proper ground with a GFCI.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:11:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Good stuff said here from real Sparkies but I'll add:

How a GFCI works

No need for a proper ground with a GFCI.



That is exactly why with each GFCI recep they include a sticker that says something to the effect that this outlet has no ground conductor.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:42:04 PM EDT
I'm a journeyman Electrician with 16 years in the trade......

1) GFCI receptacles are required on outlets within 6 feet of water, disregarding ANY appliances with a motor ( i.e.- refrigerators, disposers, diswashers, and laundry machines)...all kitchen countertop outlets are to be GFCI protected regardless of proximity to water.....these are referred to as "small appliance" circuits....

2) GFCI outlets are THE ONLY device that can be used to replace a device in an UNgrounded branch circuit, anywhere in the home.

3) Most if not all appliances with a motor, should be on their own SEPERATE branch circuit....(i.e.-refrigerators, disposers, washing machines, dishwashers, furnaces, etc....) the reason being that motors draw 125% of the required power needed to run upon start up.....think of your lights dimming for a split second when the washer changes cycles, that's the motor draw. ( say a motor runs on 16 amps, it needs 20 amps to start it)

While you may just be able to attach an appliance cord to the new dishwasher, and plug it in to an existing outlet, you MAY be overloading that particular branch circuit......depending on how old the home is, your kitchen may only have one circuit, maybe two at most......Figure that your refrigerator, microwave, coffee maker, toaster, etc....is already plugged into whatever circuitry you already have. In my experience, electrical fires are caused by one of three things.....1) Arcing- which is a condition where there is a bad connection, and the electricity actually has to jump a small gap in the wire, thereby creating a "hot spot" that can ignite....2) Overloading a circuit and 3) safety device failure.......Two and three kind of go hand in hand in that a breaker is a safety device meant to shut down or "trip" when an overload is sensed.....When the breaker is old and/or worn, it does not trip and open the circuit like it should, thereby allowing more current into the circuit than the wire can handle...This causes overheating, and in extreme cases, overheating to the point of ignition.
My best advice to you, if you are unsure, is to have a professional check out your wiring, and make a reccomendation. If you have an Electrician friend that you trust, ask him/her to do it. Any contractor that you call from the Yellow Pages is going to try and sell you some type of work. Keep that in mind, when you call. Also, remember, there IS NO HINDSIGHT after an electrical fire.......By the time you get to "I should of/ would of/ could of......" it most likely will be too late. Proceed with caution, and make smart decisions regarding your property and your family's safety.....Good luck!


PS- DO NOT trust anyone who is not experienced in this sort of work to actually DO THE WORK. Your homeowner's insurance policy will not pay out if you have an unlicensed goon burn your house down.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 5:59:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeyP:

Originally Posted By djohns6:
Originally Posted By out-a-ammo:
Install it and test it. If your wiring is grounded properly, it should work fine.





A GFCI receptacle does not need a GROUND to work properly . A HOT and
a NEUTRAL are all that is needed . Sort of a misconception about how they work and what they are used for .



GFCI works by sensing voltage differences between hot and neutral, if there is any difference it trips. You also should not use GFCI's on fridges and gas stoves.[/quote]

or water pumps of any kind
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