Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
PSA
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 7
Posted: 5/11/2012 4:08:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 4:14:52 PM EDT by FRIZ]
The Washington Post
05/11/2012

Echoes of ‘67: Israel unites
By Charles Krauthammer

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/echoes-of-67-israel-unites/2012/05/10/gIQA9tUaGU_story.html


In May 1967, in brazen violation of previous truce agreements, Egypt ordered U.N. peacekeepers out of the Sinai, marched 120,000 troops to the Israeli border, blockaded the Straits of Tiran (Israel’s southern outlet to the world’s oceans), abruptly signed a military pact with Jordan and, together with Syria, pledged war for the final destruction of Israel.

May ’67 was Israel’s most fearful, desperate month. The country was surrounded and alone. Previous great-power guarantees proved worthless. A plan to test the blockade with a Western flotilla failed for lack of participants. Time was running out. Forced into mass mobilization in order to protect against invasion — and with a military consisting overwhelmingly of civilian reservists — life ground to a halt. The country was dying.

On June 5, Israel launched a preemptive strike on the Egyptian air force, then proceeded to lightning victories on three fronts. The Six-Day War is legend, but less remembered is that, four days earlier, the nationalist opposition (Menachem Begin’s Likud precursor) was for the first time ever brought into the government, creating an emergency national-unity coalition.

Everyone understood why. You do not undertake a supremely risky preemptive war without the full participation of a broad coalition representing a national consensus.

Forty-five years later, in the middle of the night of May 7-8, 2012, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu shocked his country by bringing the main opposition party, Kadima, into a national unity government...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/echoes-of-67-israel-unites/2012/05/10/gIQA9tUaGU_story.html

Dear friends:
Please read the article before posting, it's well worth your time.
Regards,
FRIZ
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:11:43 PM EDT
Page not found...

Kharn
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:12:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 4:12:48 PM EDT by watchwatch]
Your link is borked.   There is an html tag stuck at the end of the link <br>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/echoes-of-67-israel-unites/2012/05/10/gIQA9tUaGU_story.html
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:15:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Your link is borked.   There is an html tag stuck at the end of the link <br>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/echoes-of-67-israel-unites/2012/05/10/gIQA9tUaGU_story.html


Thank you.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:16:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FRIZ:
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Your link is borked.   There is an html tag stuck at the end of the link <br>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/echoes-of-67-israel-unites/2012/05/10/gIQA9tUaGU_story.html


Thank you.


Np

Good article
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:19:43 PM EDT
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:27:32 PM EDT
not yet - I would get a postcard from the consulate if we were :)
 
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:29:00 PM EDT
Good read.

Sounds like they truly do have a real leader.

It'd be neat to know what that felt like.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:44:22 PM EDT
Good article.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:52:53 PM EDT
Netanyahu forfeited September elections that would have given him four more years in power. He chose instead to form a national coalition that guarantees 18 months of stability — 18 months during which, if the world does not act (whether by diplomacy or otherwise) to stop Iran, Israel will.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:53:54 PM EDT
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.



Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:54:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Samal:
not yet - I would get a postcard from the consulate if we were :)  


I was going to say not yet myself, but no postcard for me.

Wonder how quickly you might get that postcard?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 4:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Osirak, 1981.  Syria, 2007.  Iran?  "Naaaaah, all bark and no bite"
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:01:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 5:04:14 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Osirak, 1981.  Syria, 2007.  Iran?  "Naaaaah, all bark and no bite"


Those situations aren't nearly analogous to Iran. To say so, is beyond naive. In those other situations, they only had one target to destroy. Iran has dozens. The type of strike required wouldn't be like either of those raids. For you to not see this, makes it obvious you are not well informed on this topic.

ETA: I don't need to pull a Tomislov and put up links to all the threads in the past dating back to 2001 about Israel threatening to strike Iran every six months do I?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:03:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
 Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Israel may think outside the box and not limit itself to just airstrikes. Just because that's how the US would do it doesn't mean that's the way Israel would do it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:05:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By MK262:
 Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Israel may think outside the box and not limit itself to just airstrikes. Just because that's how the US would do it doesn't mean that's the way Israel would do it.


Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:07:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Good assessment.  It will not only fail...it will be counterproductive.  Regardless, I think we might see some solution before the 18 months is up.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:12:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 5:13:34 PM EDT by Brownie63]
I like Krauthammer.  But, I don't know if this an accurate feel or if he is over-reading the tea leaves.  

But like Charles, I do feel that something is afoot.

Obama's weakness has contributed to the Arabs being emboldened.

The Lord will bless the nation of Israel.  I stand with them.

Fuck Obama.  He hates Israel and he has contempt for our own military.  
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:13:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.


Soft kill aimed at critical personel (already underway to an extent), extended attacks from a base in Saudi Arabia, ground commando attacks, economic targets, extended kinetic attacks on economic targets, leadership decapitation, support for anti-Persian elements within the Iranian empire (already underway) and more.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:16:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:00:10 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Good assessment.  It will not only fail...it will be counterproductive.  Regardless, I think we might see some solution before the 18 months is up.


Israel attacking is probably what the Mullahs hope for most.

1. Gives Iran the excuse under Article X of the NPT to withdraw from the treaty under the National Security exemption and build nuclear weapons legally.
2. Iranians rally around the flag in nationalism following the attack, buying the regime support it hasn't seen since the Iran/Iraq war.
3. Modest damage to the nuclear program that can be reconstituted within 2 years tops.
4. International sympathy after the attack that causes the support for sanctions to weaken, and possibly causes other countries to look the other way as Iran builds a bomb.
5. The US, being Israel's greatest ally, is left to clean up a huge mess and is considered to be just as responsible as Israel, undermining US interests in the Middle East.

I'm not sure if we'll see a solution in the short term. We might see some half hearted agreement to forstall war and kick the can down the road for a certain period of time. Iran made a similar deal in 2003 with the EU 3, which it later chose to toss aside after it saw we were bogged down in Iraq and there was no real fear of invasion or attack.

North Korea made similar deals in the past, which they have broken every time.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:17:27 PM EDT
The more time progresses the more it seems to me that Iran may be a paper tiger. Their inane threats and bungled terrorist operations leave me seriously unimpressed.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 5:20:32 PM EDT by Skibane]
Originally Posted By MK262:
it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Not a problem.

The prospect of possibly having your nation nuked at some future date beats certain annihilation today.

6 months to two years down the road: wash, rinse, repeat as necessary.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:27:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:04:05 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.


Soft kill aimed at critical personel (already underway to an extent),


They have 10,000 nuclear scientists. Some more important than others, but they already understand the key technologies and how to implement them... there will always be others to follow their work. That technological genie is out of the bottle. You cannot destroy institutional knowledge.

extended attacks from a base in Saudi Arabia,  


.Seriously? Yeah, I'm sure extended operations from the country that houses the holy sites of Islam by Jews would fly real well on the Islamic street. This isn't the kind of strike where the Saudis could possibly pawn off deniability.

ground commando attacks,


This isn't an Entebbe situation. And their expeditionary capability is pretty much zero away from their borders.

economic targets, extended kinetic attacks on economic targets,


The world can't afford to take Iran's oil off the market and it would send oil skyrocketing. That's not an option. Too many other countries would be negatively affected.

leadership decapitation, support for anti-Persian elements within the Iranian empire (already underway) and more.


Even if you could kill the top leadership, this would likely lead to a take over of the government by the IRGC, and may create an even more hostile and unpredictable regime. Unintended consequences are not to be taken lightly.

As for the Iranian opposition, it is fractured, divided, has no clear leadership and the Iranian Security apparatus is very good at targeting opposition leaders and suppressing decent. It's why they survived the 2009 protests and didn't end up like Egypt or Tunisia. They also aren't afraid of slaughtering Iranians by the thousands if they have to. The motherfuckers are evil.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:29:12 PM EDT
Israel has options. To decimate any Iranian nuke program in one strike, Israel will have to use tactical nukes (which I don't think they are above doing). To do it conventionally, Israel will likely have to do a series of bombings followed by a bomb damage assessment and then go back and clean up what they may have missed. To do this, Israel will have to own the air over Iran for several days. Although difficult, this is not impossible. I am hearing that the US will provide air refueling and Air Force PJ's for the likely downed Israeli pilots.

Lets all come back to this thread in a few months and see who was right and who was wrong.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:29:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Good assessment.  It will not only fail...it will be counterproductive.  Regardless, I think we might see some solution before the 18 months is up.


Israel attacking is probably what the Mullahs hope for most.

1. Gives Iran the excuse under Article X of the NPT to withdraw from the treaty under the National Security exemption and build nuclear weapons legally.
2. Iranians rally around the flag in nationalism following the attack, buying the regime support it hadn't seen since the Iran/Iraq war.
3. Modest damage to the nuclear program that can be reconstituted within 2 years tops.
4. International sympathy after the attack that causes the support for sanctions to weaken, and possibly causes other countries to look the other way as Iran's builds a bomb.
5. The US, being Israel's greatest ally, is left to clean up a huge mess that is considered to be just a responsible as Israel, undermining its interests in the Middle East.

I'm not sure if we'll see a solution in the short term. We might see some half hearted agreement to forstall war and kick the can down the road for a certain period of time. Iran made a similar deal in 2003 with the EU 3, which it later chose to toss aside after it saw we were bogged down in Iraq and there was no real fear of invasion or attack.

North Korea made similar deals in the past, which they have broken every time.


I agree again on all points.  Iran is hurting pretty bad due to the sanctions regime.  They no doubt wish for an attack for the reasons you state.  I am hoping for some agreement...of course we will not see one unless Iran is allowed to save face by some measure.  I hope Israel does not mess it up.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:30:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:32:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Skibane:
Originally Posted By MK262:
it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Not a problem.

The prospect of possibly having your nation nuked at some future date beats certain annihilation today.

6 months to two years down the road: wash, rinse, repeat as necessary.


This theory of "mowing the lawn" every two years always makes me shake my head. As if the Middle East could stand being turned on its head every two years and being in a continual state of war.

More to the point, eventually, it would become a self defeating proposition. At what point would their ability to hide stuff out match your ability to find it? It would become unsustainable.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:40:35 PM EDT
... the key to saving Iran from severe punishment is to convince its relatively Western-thinking youth that doom is inevitable without reversing current (radical) course. Just not sure they have the moxie to overcome the grip of the Imam
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:46:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


They might try in an effort to remain relevant.  Fact is...this whole issue is now way beyond their immediate control, and involves numerous parties that have chosen a different course for the time being.  Short of a nuclear attack, Israel is incapable of any real impact on this matter militarily.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:47:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... the key to saving Iran from severe punishment is to convince its relatively Western-thinking youth that doom is inevitable without reversing current (radical) course. Just not sure they have the moxie to overcome the grip of the Imam


This is the ultimate solution. But like you, I don' t know how they can make that happen. The Iranian people deserve to be free.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 5:55:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:09:00 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


This isn't about Israel's survival. Israeli leaders, even Ehud Barak, have said that Iran is rational and that they can be deterred via Israel's nuclear arsenal. This is about Israel wanting to keep its nuclear monopoly in the middle east and the aura of invincibility it provides. Israel also fears the emboldening of Iranian proxy groups like Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad should Iran extend a nuclear umbrella over them, as well as other Iranian adventurism.

It's true that there is a danger of miscalculation, and that that could lead to nuclear war, but the odds are remote.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:08:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter69:
The more time progresses the more it seems to me that Iran may be a paper tiger. Their inane threats and bungled terrorist operations leave me seriously unimpressed.


Maybe...I think Iran's nuclear program may be about as advanced as North Korea's missile program . That is an awful big maybe when 8 million peoples lives are at stake. Can you imagine the pressure on Netanyahu...jump the gun and you probably start world war 3 only to find out it was a bluff. But on the other hand...wait one month...no..one week...no...wait one DAY too long to act and you wake up to mushroom clouds over Tel Aviv.  Your people (that you are tasked with protecting) are decimated. I can't imagine the pressure that man is under.

  Israel has one of the best intelligence sevices in the world and something IS afoot.It will not be accomplished with a couple of bunker buster bombs. Israel will have to knock Iran on it's ass and make sure it can't get up. And we WILL be involved...it will take the Arab world all of ten minutes to blame the great satan for Israels actions. I would bet that gas hits $10 a gallon within a couple of days. It's gonna be a real mess.
 

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:23:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Your statements are FULL of ignorance. At ANY given time Israel could wipe out Iran and possibly the whole Middle East. They have what almost all the countries in the Middle East don't have.......NUKES!!! And the world wouldn't have any idea about how many they have is Joe BITEME didn't open his cock holster about the subject. FUCK OBAMA and the anyone who wants to try to take Israel out.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:24:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Osirak, 1981.  Syria, 2007.  Iran?  "Naaaaah, all bark and no bite"


Those situations aren't nearly analogous to Iran. To say so, is beyond naive. In those other situations, they only had one target to destroy. Iran has dozens. The type of strike required wouldn't be like either of those raids. For you to not see this, makes it obvious you are not well informed on this topic.

ETA: I don't need to pull a Tomislov and put up links to all the threads in the past dating back to 2001 about Israel threatening to strike Iran every six months do I?


Yeah, why don't you PROFESSOR!!!
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:26:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By MK262:
 Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Israel may think outside the box and not limit itself to just airstrikes. Just because that's how the US would do it doesn't mean that's the way Israel would do it.


Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.




DO YOU LIVE THERE?? ARE YOU ON THE ISRAELI COUNCIL??? DO YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL???? HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING???????Geez. WTF???? Speculate much????
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:27:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JeepCommando401:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Osirak, 1981.  Syria, 2007.  Iran?  "Naaaaah, all bark and no bite"


Those situations aren't nearly analogous to Iran. To say so, is beyond naive. In those other situations, they only had one target to destroy. Iran has dozens. The type of strike required wouldn't be like either of those raids. For you to not see this, makes it obvious you are not well informed on this topic.

ETA: I don't need to pull a Tomislov and put up links to all the threads in the past dating back to 2001 about Israel threatening to strike Iran every six months do I?


Yeah, why don't you PROFESSOR!!!


They are saved in the Archives. You have to be a paying member of the site to read them, so it wouldn't matter to you anyway.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:27:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JeepCommando401:
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Your statements are FULL of ignorance. At ANY given time Israel could wipe out Iran and possibly the whole Middle East. They have what almost all the countries in the Middle East don't have.......NUKES!!! And the world wouldn't have any idea about how many they have is Joe BITEME didn't open his cock holster about the subject. FUCK OBAMA and the anyone who wants to try to take Israel out.


Take a deep breath and calm down. He is very well informed on this topic.  Try reading instead of foaming at the mouth.  So your whole answer is Israel has nukes.  Well, that is just a brilliant assessment.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:29:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PegasusAirborne:
Originally Posted By shooter69:
The more time progresses the more it seems to me that Iran may be a paper tiger. Their inane threats and bungled terrorist operations leave me seriously unimpressed.


Maybe...I think Iran's nuclear program may be about as advanced as North Korea's missile program . That is an awful big maybe when 8 million peoples lives are at stake. Can you imagine the pressure on Netanyahu...jump the gun and you probably start world war 3 only to find out it was a bluff. But on the other hand...wait one month...no..one week...no...wait one DAY too long to act and you wake up to mushroom clouds over Tel Aviv.  Your people (that you are tasked with protecting) are decimated. I can't imagine the pressure that man is under.

  Israel has one of the best intelligence sevices in the world and something IS afoot.It will not be accomplished with a couple of bunker buster bombs. Israel will have to knock Iran on it's ass and make sure it can't get up. And we WILL be involved...it will take the Arab world all of ten minutes to blame the great satan for Israels actions. I would bet that gas hits $10 a gallon within a couple of days. It's gonna be a real mess.
 


This is the most intelligent response to all the above posts, and to those who think they know it all.  db



Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:30:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


They might try in an effort to remain relevant.  Fact is...this whole issue is now way beyond their immediate control, and involves numerous parties that have chosen a different course for the time being.  Short of a nuclear attack, Israel is incapable of any real impact on this matter militarily.


If that is the only tool in your bag that can get the job done, it seems to me that you would be more inclined to use it.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:30:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:32:57 PM EDT by Citadel-SC]
Originally Posted By JeepCommando401:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By MK262:
 Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Israel may think outside the box and not limit itself to just airstrikes. Just because that's how the US would do it doesn't mean that's the way Israel would do it.


Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.




DO YOU LIVE THERE?? ARE YOU ON THE ISRAELI COUNCIL??? DO YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL???? HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING???????Geez. WTF???? Speculate much????


They have admitted to such THEMSELVES that they can only delay the program a couple years at best!!! Good grief.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:31:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:44:40 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By JeepCommando401:
Originally Posted By MK262:
Originally Posted By mcgredo:
Originally Posted By MK262:
 Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops.


Israel may think outside the box and not limit itself to just airstrikes. Just because that's how the US would do it doesn't mean that's the way Israel would do it.


Unless they open canned sunshine they aren't going to do the damage they need to... and that isn't going to happen.




DO YOU LIVE THERE?? ARE YOU ON THE ISRAELI COUNCIL??? DO YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL???? HOW IN THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING???????Geez. WTF???? Speculate much????


Israel doesn't even acknowledge they have nuclear weapons.

You're telling me they are going to use nukes on a non-nuclear state that has not even attacked them, in a pre-emptive nuclear strike? Yeah, I don't need a crystal ball.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:31:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


They might try in an effort to remain relevant.  Fact is...this whole issue is now way beyond their immediate control, and involves numerous parties that have chosen a different course for the time being.  Short of a nuclear attack, Israel is incapable of any real impact on this matter militarily.


If that is the only tool in your bag that can get the job done, it seems to me that you would be more inclined to use it.


Clearly that is not going to happen.  They and as such we have plenty of tools, and they are being used with good success if Iran's economy is any indication.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:36:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


They might try in an effort to remain relevant.  Fact is...this whole issue is now way beyond their immediate control, and involves numerous parties that have chosen a different course for the time being.  Short of a nuclear attack, Israel is incapable of any real impact on this matter militarily.


If that is the only tool in your bag that can get the job done, it seems to me that you would be more inclined to use it.


Clearly that is not going to happen.  They and as such we have plenty of tools, and they are being used with good success if Iran's economy is any indication.


I hope you are right.  I think the results of our presidential election will play a decisive role in Israel's plans.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:43:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 6:48:35 PM EDT by MK262]
Originally Posted By JeepCommando401:
Originally Posted By MK262:
I can see Mahmoud's reaction now.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3Bc4-4QdcaycKSxnBfgnPDTtqlHReYmiYez4TQ-syVMiS0KQg0g

Israel can circle the wagons all they want, but everyone knows that only the United States has the ability to credibly delay Iran's program (even we can't destroy it).  Even if Israel were to hit power grids, entrances and ventilation systems at the nuclear sites, it will only buy a delay of 6 months to two years tops. And the likelihood of failure is high.

Only the US has the ability to establish air dominance and conduct the sustained type of operations necessary to hit the dozens of sites in Iran. Even then, we still can't guarantee that we will gain escalation dominance quickly enough to prevent a much larger scale war, or that unknown nuclear sites won't come online in short order.

Israel is like the little dog in the corner that keeps barking... and barking, and barking. I understand that this saber rattling is used to put pressure on the US and other international powers to take a hardline on Iran and produce results, but it gets old. Real old.


Your statements are FULL of ignorance. At ANY given time Israel could wipe out Iran and possibly the whole Middle East.


So you are saying Israel has both conventional and unconventional superiority over Iran and the rest of the Middle East, and that they could nuke the ever loving shit out of anyone they choose at anytime. I agree, and that is why this whole "Iran is an existential threat" claim is utter nonsense.

They have what almost all the countries in the Middle East don't have.......NUKES!!!


Yes, this is true. But if you knew anything about nukes you would know they have very little utility. They are basically only used to guarantee regime survival and deterrence. They haven't been used in an offensive manner against another state since WWII, and using them in such a fashion is now against international norms.

And the world wouldn't have any idea about how many they have is Joe BITEME didn't open his cock holster about the subject. FUCK OBAMA and the anyone who wants to try to take Israel out.


I'm no fan of Obama or Biden either.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:47:58 PM EDT
I suspect Israeli leadership have been shitting themselves for awhile now because they know they have
no chance in stopping Iran's nuclear pursuit. Not one chance.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:50:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Burnsy87:
Good read.

Sounds like they truly do have a real leader.

It'd be neat to know what that felt like.


Obama has shown that he's not willing to lead on this issue...

Netanyahu has taken the bull by the horns and is preparing his country for total war...a war of necessity for it's survival.

I guaran-fucking-tee that what Obama thinks isn't registering on Netanyahu's radar right now. Obama has shown himself to be pretty much on the side of the Islamists over the past couple of years and things are most likely on a timetable to happen before Romney would take office should he win the election this November, so Netanyahu knows that he won't be getting any help from the U.S. this time.

When Israel goes to war this time around it will be a textbook example of how a war is supposed to be fought...lightning fast, tightly focused, without mercy and no relenting until it is totally won. No "touchy - feely" humanitarian B.S. or "nation building"...just a world-class ass whoopin'.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:52:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By Citadel-SC:
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Interesting read.

So, is Israel going to war?


Comparing their current actions with the benefit of looking at their history, I'd say they are girding their loins and sharpening their swords.  I have absolutely no doubt that Israel will do WHATEVER it takes to survive, and I don't blame them one bit.


They might try in an effort to remain relevant.  Fact is...this whole issue is now way beyond their immediate control, and involves numerous parties that have chosen a different course for the time being.  Short of a nuclear attack, Israel is incapable of any real impact on this matter militarily.


If that is the only tool in your bag that can get the job done, it seems to me that you would be more inclined to use it.


Clearly that is not going to happen.  They and as such we have plenty of tools, and they are being used with good success if Iran's economy is any indication.


I hope you are right.  I think the results of our presidential election will play a decisive role in Israel's plans.


I was convinced of that in '08.
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:54:30 PM EDT
What would happen in the event of Israel launching a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:57:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/11/2012 7:01:20 PM EDT by Citadel-SC]
Originally Posted By bluezerosix:
Originally Posted By Burnsy87:
Good read.

Sounds like they truly do have a real leader.

It'd be neat to know what that felt like.


Obama has shown that he's not willing to lead on this issue...

Netanyahu has taken the bull by the horns and is preparing his country for total war...a war of necessity for it's survival.

I guaran-fucking-tee that what Obama thinks isn't registering on Netanyahu's radar right now. Obama has shown himself to be pretty much on the side of the Islamists over the past couple of years and things are most likely on a timetable to happen before Romney would take office should he win the election this November, so Netanyahu knows that he won't be getting any help from the U.S. this time.

When Israel goes to war this time around it will be a textbook example of how a war is supposed to be fought...lightning fast, tightly focused, without mercy and no relenting until it is totally won. No "touchy - feely" humanitarian B.S. or "nation building"...just a world-class ass whoopin'.


What are they going to do?  They can't invade Iran due to geographic considerations, and could not successfully do so anyway.  They can have a limited airstrike that will be only slightly successful at best.  They can't use nukes on a non-nuke nation unprovoked, or they will become a pariah state overnight.  So how are they going to accomplish this war lightning fast, tightly focused, without mercy and no relenting until it is totally won.  I am real curious as to your answer, or are you just letting emotion get the best of you?
Link Posted: 5/11/2012 6:57:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DPeacher:
What would happen in the event of Israel launching a preemptive nuclear strike on Iran?


Economic collapse.

Link Posted: 5/11/2012 7:00:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2012 6:09:50 PM EDT by MK262]

Originally Posted By bluezerosix:



Originally Posted By Burnsy87:


Good read.





Sounds like they truly do have a real leader.





It'd be neat to know what that felt like.






Obama has shown that he's not willing to lead on this issue...





Netanyahu has taken the bull by the horns and is preparing his country for total war...a war of necessity for it's survival.





I guaran-fucking-tee that what Obama thinks isn't registering on Netanyahu's radar right now. Obama has shown himself to be pretty much on the side of the Islamists over the past couple of years and things are most likely on a timetable to happen before Romney would take office should he win the election this November, so Netanyahu knows that he won't be getting any help from the U.S. this time.





When Israel goes to war this time around it will be a textbook example of how a war is supposed to be fought...lightning fast, tightly focused, without mercy and no relenting until it is totally won. No "touchy - feely" humanitarian B.S. or "nation building"...just a world-class ass whoopin'.






On the contrary, I think it is possible all this is political theater. I believe it's likely that Obama and Bibi are working very closely on this issue, and have worked out a "good cop bad cop" strategy to motivate Europe into a harder line, and to make the US position at talks look softer than the Israeli position, as if the US is compromising. It gives the Israelis the security of the most dangerous parts of Iran's program being stopped, while allowing enough flexibility to enable talks with the Iranians to actually have a chance at success.





But, this is only believable if one doesn't automatically assume Obama is a moron.
 
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 7
Top Top