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Posted: 9/6/2004 8:42:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 8:47:25 PM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:43:36 PM EST
Don't forget the monseignior(sp).
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:43:37 PM EST
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:44:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you



If simplicity is what you are looking for, try Buddhism. There is no God, so to speak.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:45:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:45:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Paul:

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
Don't forget the monseignior(sp).



Where do they go?




Higher than Cardinal(?)
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:46:04 PM EST
Above priest. That's all I know about them.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:47:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you




Then why do they have churches you idiot?

You have missed several

monseignior, Priests, Cardinal Bishops, Arch Cardinals and so forth.

Not sure how it all goes


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:48:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:49:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you




Then why do they have churches you idiot?

You have missed several

monseignior, Priests, Cardinal Bishops, Arch Cardinals and so forth.

Not sure how it all goes


SGatr15




Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:53:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:


Then why do they have churches you idiot?

SGatr15



For the fellowship with other Christians. It's a big part of Baptist doctrine. Their religious version of hanging out at the range with the guys
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:54:00 PM EST
I think it's spelled Monsignor.

Here's an example.

Terri Denied Last Rites
Catholic monsignor forbidden to put crumb of holy
wafer in dying woman's mouth.
By Sarah Foster
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
10-19-3

Saying she was only following court and doctor's orders, an attorney for Michael Schiavo yesterday would not allow a revered Roman Catholic priest to administer Holy Communion to brain-disabled Terri Schindler-Schiavo, who is being slowly starved to death following the judge-ordered removal of her life-sustaining feeding tube on Wednesday.

Attorney Deborah Bushnell told Monsignor Thaddeus Malanowski, who has been Terri's spiritual provider for three years, that ''because of court order and doctor's orders, you can't put anything in her mouth,'' not even a morsel of moistened communion wafer.

Malanowski recounted the bizarre incident for WorldNetDaily. ''I felt that time was of the essence at this point and made a decision that because she is not going to live much longer, I might not have another opportunity to give her Holy Communion,'' he said.

As he had done almost every Saturday for over three years, the priest accompanied Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, to the Hospice of the Florida Sun Coast in Pinellas Park, Fla, where she has been a patient since April 2000. Because so little time is left for the family to be with Terri, her brother Bobby and sister, Suzanne, were there as well.

Plus there were two police officers in the room and a woman who was said to be Schiavo's ''representative.''

Malanowski spoke with Bushnell outside the room, explaining that he wanted to administer the Sacrament of Annointing of the Sick or the Viaticum, the last communion for a Catholic before death. Bushnell contacted Schiavo by phone to make certain he would allow it, and he gave his permission.

Wanting to make it a prayer service, the priest invited the family into the room to share the sacrament with Terri, but Bushnell demanded to know what the priest was going to so.

Malanowski explained he was going to give her: ''a small, tiny particle of the consecrated Host. And I'll moisten my index finger [in water] to make sure the Host will stick to it and that it will stick to her tongue.''

Bushnell said he couldn't do that, but suggested he ''take the Host, touch her lips with it, and you consume it.''

Malanowski protested, ''I'm not here for that. I am here to bring her communion, not me. I went to communion this morning. This is communion for her.''

Contacted by telephone, the priest of the local parish told Bushnell there was an ''alternative'' called ''spiritual communion'' for people who can't receive communion - ''She receives the Lord in her heart.''

''I told attorney Bushnell, I've been doing that for over three years,'' Malanowski exclaimed. ''Every Saturday I give her spiritual communion, and I want her to receive communion in the mouth. She hasn't received communion for 13 or 14 years. She's dying. She's on her deathbed, and with dying people - whether it is a male or female Catholic - I'm obligated to take care of their religious and spiritual needs when they're dying. They get absolution, Holy Communion, and Annointing of the Sick.''

Malanowski argued the matter with the parish priest, but realized he was ''following the party line about spiritual communion.''

''I told him I'd been doing that for two-and-a-half years - and he said, 'Well, the doctors say you cannot put anything in her mouth.'''

Malanowski said he would do it, ''because she has the constitutional right to follow her religious beliefs, she has the right to receive communion and I have the obligation as a priest to give her communion. This will be perhaps the last time in her life on earth that she receives communion.''

But the priest didn't agree. ''I sensed that, because he was saying, 'Otherwise you can't do it. If the court-order says so and the doctors say so, you can't do it.'''

Unwilling to argue points of theology and constitutional issues on the phone, Malanowski tried Bushnell again, but she was adamant. ''She wouldn't let me do it.''

There were two police officers, and he asked them, ''What if I go in there now and give her communion?'' And they said, ''We will deny you access to her. You will not be able to put it in her mouth.''

At that point Bobby and Suzanne, said, ''Father, let's go.''

And they did. While Bushnell was talking with the priest, they had had a prayer service and the ''spiritual communion'' - but many Catholics do not regard that as the same as communion with a consecrated host.

Outside the hospice a scheduled press conference was about to begin, and Malanowski found himself in front of the TV cameras.

''I told them [the media] the whole story, that she was denied her religious privileges and I was denied the right to take care of her religious needs,'' he said. ''I told them, that the attorney had some suggestion about me touching Terri's lips with the wafer, and then I was supposed to consume it. What does she know about Catholic ritual or rites?''

As WorldNetDaily reported, the Schindlers had been fighting their son-in-law for 10 years over the lack of care and therapy Schiavo as her guardian provided for their daughter, who suffered massive brain damage when she collapsed at her home 13 years ago under mysterious circumstances at the age of 26.

The ongoing dispute escalated five years ago when Schiavo petitioned the court for permission to end his wife's life by removing her feeding tube, insisting she is in a ''persistent vegetative state'' and had told him years before she would not want to be maintained ''by tubes'' and ''artificial means'' Although Terri breathes on her own and maintains her own blood pressure, she requires a simple tube into her abdomen to her stomach for nourishment and hydration.

The Schindlers fought tenaciously to keep their daughter and the case alive in the courts, but they have been basically blocked at every turn in particular by probate judge George Greer, of the Pinellas County Circuit Court, who has had charge of the case almost from the beginning. When the seven-member Florida Supreme Court in August turned down a petition to review the case, the way was clear for Schiavo to starve his wife to death.

On Sept. 17, Greer scheduled Oct. 15 as the day Terri's feeding tube would be removed. At the same time, in separate rulings, he denied any rehabilitation for the disabled woman or a chance to be spoon-fed.

Information on Terri's fight for life is posted on the family's <http://www.terrisfight.org/>website

http://www.terrisfight.org/



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Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:54:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.



Well no shit!

Tell me..who run the baptist churches then??

SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:58:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.



Well no shit!

Tell me..who run the baptist churches then??

SGtar15




No one. Each is independent.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:00:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 9:01:58 PM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:00:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.



Well no shit!

Tell me..who run the baptist churches then??

SGtar15




No one. Each is independent.




No pastor??

No helpers?

WHo?

ANd if they are each indepandent than how do the pastors learn about their religion?

Sounds like a gang to me.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:02:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.



Well no shit!

Tell me..who run the baptist churches then??

SGtar15




No one. Each is independent.




No pastor??

No helpers?

WHo?

ANd if they are each indepandent than how do the pastors learn about their religion?

Sounds like a gang to me.

SGtar15




I just meant there is government higher than the church pastor and deacon board to dictate what a single can or cannot do.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:02:13 PM EST
Put the Windex down ETH.

SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:14:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:24:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Put the Windex down ETH.

SGtar15


Pick your Bible up, Sarge!

Eric The(PerfectlySober)Hun



Catholics aren't known for reading the bible as a whole. In fact, I don't think anyone in my extended family even has one.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:36:37 PM EST
Now, to answer the original question:
1)Pope
2)Cardinal
3)Archbishop ( A Bishop of an Archdiocese)
4)Bishop
5)Priest (A Monsignor is a higher order of Priest but not a Bishop)
6)Deacon (usually a married male who can perform some duties of a Priest...but not all)


Clergy... is the name for all of the above.

There are more subdivisions or categories such as a Brother (Monk) or Sister (Nun) that don't really have "rank."
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:41:13 PM EST
Not really an answer but it relates to your question: www.catholic-hierarchy.org/


Strictly speaking I think it goes:
Pope
Cardinal
Bishop
Priest/Deacon
Clergy

Every other title falls into one of the above and is either a specialization or an honorary title.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:52:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By headpulper:
Now, to answer the original question:
1)Pope
2)Cardinal
3)Archbishop ( A Bishop of an Archdiocese)
4)Bishop
5)Priest (A Monsignor is a higher order of Priest but not a Bishop)
6)Deacon (usually a married male who can perform some duties of a Priest...but not all)


Clergy... is the name for all of the above.

There are more subdivisions or categories such as a Brother (Monk) or Sister (Nun) that don't really have "rank."



Pope (aka. Bishop of Rome)
Cardinal
Archbishop
Numerous Vicars in an Archdiocese
Bishop
Priests
Deacons
The Catholic Church is modeled alot after the Roman Gov
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:59:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you



I believe most Protestant denominations follow that pattern.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:27:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:28:22 PM EST by sterling18]
Did a google on how Jesus Chist organizated his church.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question about the Roman Catholic Church.

When Jesus Christ lived on the earth, He organized His Church. It was “built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).

In addition to the Twelve Apostles, Christ appointed other leaders to assist the Apostles in the work of His Church. These included:

* Seventies.
* Evangelists.
* Pastors.
* Elders.
* Bishops.
* Priests.
* Teachers.
* Deacons.



Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:27:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By headpulper:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Put the Windex down ETH.

SGtar15


Pick your Bible up, Sarge!

Eric The(PerfectlySober)Hun



Catholics aren't known for reading the bible as a whole. In fact, I don't think anyone in my extended family even has one.




I got 3...NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am just kind of tired of people picking on the Catholic Church for the reason the we have priest and bishops, get they seem to ignore the fact that their own churches also have a similar origizational structure.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:28:17 PM EST
Deacons are "Apprentice" Priests. Vicar is a job title. Vicars can be temporarily in charge of a Church or Mission or sub-unit of a Diocese.

Think of the Vicar in a Diocese as being an XO.

Various Orders Some orders are orders of the Priesthood, Salesian, Servites, Franciscans etc. addressed as Father, Father Serra, Father Donovan of the Fighting 69th, they can report to the Father General of the Order. Then you can have Monastic Orders or Monks "Brothers" who may "report" to an Abbot who is the boss of an Abbey or Monastery, a Brother Superior, a Father, or a Father General. Some of the orders report directly to the Vatican and the local Diocese or hierarchy has no authority (Jesuits?)

Members of the Franciscans "report" to the Minister Provincial , who reports to the General Ministry and Council in Rome which reports to the Pope. However Franciscan Fathers may assist or be assigned to a Diocesan Church in which case they also report to the local Bishop.ArchBishop etc.

Simple isn't it? Kind of like explaining the differences between Administrative and Operational Chainof Command in the Military and why a Navy Lieutenant out ranks Lieutenants in the Army and Marines and a First Lieutenant in the Navy is a job and not a rank. Piece of Cake

on the Feamle side it is like the Orders and not regular clergy. Females can't be Priests, just Sister, Mothers and Mother Superiors.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:29:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By headpulper:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Put the Windex down ETH.

SGtar15


Pick your Bible up, Sarge!

Eric The(PerfectlySober)Hun



Catholics aren't known for reading the bible as a whole. In fact, I don't think anyone in my extended family even has one.



I'm not going to even poke my nose into this one.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:31:03 PM EST
Commander in chief: God
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:32:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you



So is it you or God who decides which Baptists can drink and dance? And who is wrong?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:35:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you



So is it you or God who decides which Baptists can drink and dance? And who is wrong?




You decide if you will drink or dance. If you can convince others you are right, more power to you.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:39:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:41:26 PM EST by JarheadChiro]
Paul,

Don't forget the Brothers and Sisters (Nuns).

Both below priest.

Catholic schools for me all the way through Highschool.

Oddly enough I start M.D. school at St Matthews in Jan.

Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:43:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By PaDanby:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
I think that's about right.


The Baptist hierarchy is:

God
you



So is it you or God who decides which Baptists can drink and dance? And who is wrong?




You decide if you will drink or dance. If you can convince others you are right, more power to you.




So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:49:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 10:52:31 PM EST by sherrick13]
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 10:53:00 PM EST
So did anyone fine Paul's answer, how the Catholic Church is organizated? The only organization I found was how Jesus Christ Organization his chuch, so if you follow the dots shouldn't the Catholic Church be organizated the sameway?



Safe to say? Come on, I know the answer is out there. Aren't there any members of the Catholic Church that can chime in?
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 11:23:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:58:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 3:00:09 AM EST by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:19:20 AM EST

Pope
Cardinal
Archbishop
­Bishop
Deacon
Priest
Clergy



I think "Molester" fits in there as well. I think in between all of those titles, actually.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:17:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By skpp108:

Pope
Cardinal
Archbishop
­Bishop
Deacon
Priest
Clergy



I think "Molester" fits in there as well. I think in between all of those titles, actually.



Wow - I am laughing sooo hard.

I suppose TV Sheister or Con-artist is thus somewhere in yours?

You, then God?

Why did Paul even bother writing all those letters to the early Churches, heh? Or did human doctrinal involvement only last until the publishing of the New Testament?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:18:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:22:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:27:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


So did the Pharisees.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:28:50 AM EST
As for ther topic - you have the Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests. Everything else is a variation on one of them (For example, there is no "archbishop" over a "bishop" - the difference is the size of his area of operations). Monastic orders are a whole separate ball of wax.

as for:


Churches are an allowance for the social nature of humans, but they are not really needed to get to heaven or to have a relationship with God.



Nobody, though, has suggested otherwise. I have little doubt that the typical Catholic smearing that so many "Christians" like to do has caused you to state that in an apparent attempt to differentiate your belief from theirs.

Jesus himself referred to church organizations, and the original apostles educated church organizations. Maybe in your world any shuckster used car salesman can declare himslef a baptist preacher, but I doubt it. Some authority no doubt exists that grants positions, runs seminaries, etc. Of course, then there are your wholly independent "non-denominational" churches, many of whose taught doctrine depends wholly on the personel predilections of the self-declared pastor. However, by your stating "Baptist" you automatically imply a human-run organization of some sort - or do you deny this?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:30:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


So did the Pharisees.



Wow - such wit. Do you not follow rules?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:40:32 AM EST
Yes Eric, I READ IT!

We also read 3 passages at each mass.


But you KNEW that didn't you?


SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:42:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


So did the Pharisees.



I'll remember that one the next time a protestant slams Roman Catholics for supposedly not following every word in the Bible.

Thanks for the help!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:45:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


So did the Pharisees.


Wow - such wit. Do you not follow rules?


Jesus had alot to say about following rules. Especially rules that had little or nothing to do with following God's law.

Matthew 15

The came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
But he answered and said unto them,
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
<snip>
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their hear is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:46:18 AM EST
I'm a Baptist and I think its great that the Catholics can speak to one another at the liquor store. They can avoid aukward moments where someone you know very well does not recognize you because of your surroundings.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:49:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2IDdoc:
I think it's spelled Monsignor.

Here's an example.

Terri Denied Last Rites
Catholic monsignor forbidden to put crumb of holy
wafer in dying woman's mouth.
By Sarah Foster
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
10-19-3

<snip>



Mgsr. Malanowski is a friend of mine. A good man and a devout man. He is also a retired General and served in Germany and the Pentagon.

He was a friend of Elvis Presley's while in Germany and helped him out when Elvis's mother died. There's a great picture of him and "The King" I need to get scanned. It's in the lobby of my kid's school.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:51:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
So the people write the rules in your church?

How odd...we Catholics follow rules.


So did the Pharisees.


Wow - such wit. Do you not follow rules?


Jesus had alot to say about following rules. Especially rules that had little or nothing to do with following God's law.

Matthew 15

The came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
But he answered and said unto them,
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
<snip>
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their hear is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.



Feel free to point out which Catholic traditions "transgress the commandments of God."

While you're thinking, and continuing in your bashing, ponder Mark 9, vs. 38-41 - which interestingly came up in another thread just last night.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:52:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.







I swear it must be jealousy.


Sgtar15
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