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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/5/2005 5:38:30 PM EDT
Has anybody heard of this vehicle before? I searched the archives for it but didn't see any topics. This looks like a really interesting vehicle. It is based on a F450 chassis and is supposed to be a totally self-contained RV that requires no hookups to provide full-service. It uses solar panels to generate electricty and runs on either diesel or biodiesel. It has its own water filtration. It is basically designed to take you anyplace you want to go and provide the comforts of home (heat, A/C, refrigeration, radio, computer, cooking, sanitation, king-size bed). The other cool thing is it is basically the same size as a dualie pick-up. It isn't a gargantuan bus-sized thing.

It has a 59 gallon diesel tank and gets 11mpg city - giving a range of over 500 miles even after extensive use of the diesel furnace and stove for non-driving functions (diesel consumption averaged 2 gallons a week in non-driving functions while camping in -10F Colorado winter). Basically I could go on forever on the specs; but here is a link:

www.earthroamer.com/main_truck/vehicle_8speclist.html

All in all, it seems like a pretty impressive vehicle. However, like all nifty toys, the price is pretty impressive as well. It basically costs the same as a house in many parts of the country (base price of $181k w/ no options).
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 6:47:10 PM EDT
A house? more like 2 or 3 where im at.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 8:06:36 PM EDT
WAY over priced for what it is IMO. You can buy an F450 Cab and chassis for about 40K.

So they are saying that the Box attached to it is worth about 140K... I think not.


They are trying to price it up there with the EURO expedition RVs. An F450 is a good chassis but it is no Unimog.

www.turtleexpedition.com

Also converted an F450. They have done several others as well. some good Ideas can be gleaned from what they have done with the Dakota and the F350.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 8:39:43 PM EDT
Some interesting stuff out there... the only pricing I found on Unimog RVs was $350k; but that thing was huge. It looked like a full size RV and a Unimog rolled into one. There were some smaller Unimog RVs; but they all appeared to be custom projects by individual owners.

I don't know enough about cars to reference the Euro Expedition vehicles you are talking about. All I could find is the Land Rover Expedition, which is probably cheaper but definitely not at the same level.

The Turtle V looked like the closest competition but apparently it s only a prototype and none are for sale. Also didn't see a price or the kind of detailed specs that this one showed.

I do like the idea of a truck-sized, trail-capable RV that you could live out of like a giant BOB.
Link Posted: 9/6/2005 11:30:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2005 11:32:00 AM EDT by ml271]
The center of gravity on those are way to high. You want something to go anywhere try a modified jeep with a tentrax trailer. Like these from www.aev-conversions.com



The trailer folds into a tent on the top www.tenttrax.com
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 9:36:11 AM EDT
The 6.0L Powerstroke is too complicated and trouble prone to be a BOV.

Find somthing that size with a 100% mechanical engine and you will be much better off. Somthing like a 89-early 98 Dodge, a 84-94 Ford, or any number of medium duty trucks with Cummins, Cat, or International engine in it. Older Mogs, Pinzgauers, or 2 1/2 ton military rigs would be much better for a SHTF vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 11:50:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:
The 6.0L Powerstroke is too complicated and trouble prone to be a BOV.

Find somthing that size with a 100% mechanical engine and you will be much better off. Somthing like a 89-early 98 Dodge, a 84-94 Ford, or any number of medium duty trucks with Cummins, Cat, or International engine in it. Older Mogs, Pinzgauers, or 2 1/2 ton military rigs would be much better for a SHTF vehicle.






Gotta call bullshit on that.

Go to any diesel forum and you'll see two things.

1.All the manufactures have their problems

2.A small amount of people with problems as opposed to the overall amount of vehicles sold post their problems online, thus giving you a biased picture.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:45:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shootemup:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:
The 6.0L Powerstroke is too complicated and trouble prone to be a BOV.

Find somthing that size with a 100% mechanical engine and you will be much better off. Somthing like a 89-early 98 Dodge, a 84-94 Ford, or any number of medium duty trucks with Cummins, Cat, or International engine in it. Older Mogs, Pinzgauers, or 2 1/2 ton military rigs would be much better for a SHTF vehicle.





hit
Go to any diesel forum and you'll see two things.

1.All the manufactures have their problems

2.A small amount of people with problems as opposed to the overall amount of vehicles sold post their problems online, thus giving you a biased picture.



1. Have you ever actually worked on the fuel system of a HEUI motor? Worst fuel control system ever used in a diesel engine. Adds the engine oil pressure into the equation as far as no start and poor running conditions. Very tempermental to oil and filter quailty.
2. Your right, the DMax has injector problems, and the 24V Cummins has lift pump and injection pump problems, thats why they are not in my list of reliable SHTF vehicles.
3. Anything with electronic engine controll is going to be a liability in a SHTF. If you will notice, the only electronics on the engines listed is a shutoff selonoid, at most.
4. Yes I am biased against the Powerstroke engine. I have worked on too many of them to consider them as reliable as other choices availible.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 6:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 6:53:28 PM EDT by WAMJR]
I'll stick with my Land Rover LR3 for my BOV. No mods needed, perfect from the factory. Just hit one button and the SUV raises 7 inches for off road.


Let the wife drive for a while.

Going down a trail

Crossing a stream

Link Posted: 9/8/2005 4:12:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:
1. Have you ever actually worked on the fuel system of a HEUI motor? Worst fuel control system ever used in a diesel engine. Adds the engine oil pressure into the equation as far as no start and poor running conditions. Very tempermental to oil and filter quailty.
2. Your right, the DMax has injector problems, and the 24V Cummins has lift pump and injection pump problems, thats why they are not in my list of reliable SHTF vehicles.
3. Anything with electronic engine controll is going to be a liability in a SHTF. If you will notice, the only electronics on the engines listed is a shutoff selonoid, at most.
4. Yes I am biased against the Powerstroke engine. I have worked on too many of them to consider them as reliable as other choices availible.



Which vehicle mass produced today, that are affordable, doesn't fit into this category?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 5:06:52 AM EDT

Which vehicle mass produced today, that are affordable, doesn't fit into this category?

None because of the OBC-II requirement to make cars less affordable. That's why you have to buy something used.z
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 7:30:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zoom:

Which vehicle mass produced today, that are affordable, doesn't fit into this category?

None because of the OBC-II requirement to make cars less affordable. That's why you have to buy something used.z



Exactly.

My ideal BOV vehicle would be somthing like this.

http://www.nf6x.net/greentruck/truck1/thumb.jpg

Turn the box into a living area, with plenty of LP and diesel storage, and you could be self sufficiant for a decent amount of time, and be able to go almost anywhere you could get it to fit.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 3:46:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

1. Have you ever actually worked on the fuel system of a HEUI motor? Worst fuel control system ever used in a diesel engine. Adds the engine oil pressure into the equation as far as no start and poor running conditions. Very tempermental to oil and filter quailty.



Yeah, them fellows at Caterpillar don't know shit about diesels do they?

Beats the hell out of me why someone wouldn't want fuel when the engine doesn't have any oil pressure....

Kinda makes you wonder why they recommend a CERTAIN oil and filter too, huh?

Maybe it was DESIGNED that way. What a concept.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 11:11:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 11:14:13 AM EDT by BarnStormer]

Originally Posted By bfarrin1:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

1. Have you ever actually worked on the fuel system of a HEUI motor? Worst fuel control system ever used in a diesel engine. Adds the engine oil pressure into the equation as far as no start and poor running conditions. Very tempermental to oil and filter quailty.



Yeah, them fellows at Caterpillar don't know shit about diesels do they?

Beats the hell out of me why someone wouldn't want fuel when the engine doesn't have any oil pressure....

Kinda makes you wonder why they recommend a CERTAIN oil and filter too, huh?

Maybe it was DESIGNED that way. What a concept.




I am guessing you are a certified Cat tech then, correct?

/sarcasm/Obviosuly you know how well they run, how easy they are to trouble shoot injector problems, and why every Cat engine ever made uses the HEUI system. /sarcasm/

A HEUI motor will run long enough with no oil in the crankcase to do engine damage. and no, this has not happend to a truck I have worked on, but I have seen it happen before.

Besides, since when does an engineer care about how reliable an engine is, or how easy they are for a tech to work on?



[Edit] And that certain oil and filter that are recomended by Cat, just happen to be Cat oil and Cat filters, wow what a concept, push their own parts so they can make more money on markup.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:01:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:
My ideal BOV vehicle would be somthing like this.



Turn the box into a living area, with plenty of LP and diesel storage, and you could be self sufficiant for a decent amount of time, and be able to go almost anywhere you could get it to fit.



Pretty much my thoughts as well. I keep thinking that'd make one hell of a project once I get settled down. It may not be as "pretty" as a fugly pickup with a shiney box on it though, and you'll definitly stand out in the RV crowd.

In any case, I think one with a resonable amount of "do-it-yourself" ability could build something similar from a cab & frame truck for a LOT less than $180k. The determining factor is "what is your time worth" of course -- if you have zero time to work on a project like that, then $180k might be a bargin. If you have the garage/shop space, time, and the desire to do it yourself, then $180k is extremely overpriced.
Link Posted: 9/20/2005 6:25:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:
I am guessing you are a certified Cat tech then, correct?

/sarcasm/Obviosuly you know how well they run, how easy they are to trouble shoot injector problems, and why every Cat engine ever made uses the HEUI system. /sarcasm/

A HEUI motor will run long enough with no oil in the crankcase to do engine damage. and no, this has not happend to a truck I have worked on, but I have seen it happen before.

Besides, since when does an engineer care about how reliable an engine is, or how easy they are for a tech to work on



I'll take your sarcasm with a grain of salt, as I was pretty sarcastic too.

I've been to CAT school, 7.3/6.0 Nav, 6.5 GM...blah blah blah. I've been fortunate enough to work on them in well supplied, and well tooled dealers.

I think they're pretty easy to troubleshoot if you've got the right tools and mindset. If you work on enough of them, I think they're easier to diagnose than most older mechanical systems(and gasoline engines) for that matter.

While there are, and probably will continue to be concerns, I got paid to fix them, and if they weren't breaking, I didn't get paid.

I've never seen a HEUI run without any oil in the crankcase. I can't help but think of how long it takes to get one started after an injector replacement when the oil has drained back to the crankcase or the high pressure reservoir is empty/low. Can't say that I ever tried to start one dry though...

Last time I looked there were at least 20 oils that met the API certifications(CI-4, CH-4, CG-4) that CAT specified. They can recommend whatever they want, and require whatever they want for warranty repairs(and dealer use), but if it meets the certifications - it meets the certifications. With that said, some seem to perform better than others.....same with the filters. And more than once, a drain and refill of the crankcase with the "preferred" products fixed driveability concerns.

Your experiences may certainly be different, but if you're that bitter about the manufacturer you support in one form or another - you might want to look for another job.


Link Posted: 9/20/2005 8:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/20/2005 8:13:13 PM EDT by BarnStormer]

Originally Posted By bfarrin1:

I'll take your sarcasm with a grain of salt, as I was pretty sarcastic too.

I've been to CAT school, 7.3/6.0 Nav, 6.5 GM...blah blah blah. I've been fortunate enough to work on them in well supplied, and well tooled dealers.

I think they're pretty easy to troubleshoot if you've got the right tools and mindset. If you work on enough of them, I think they're easier to diagnose than most older mechanical systems(and gasoline engines) for that matter.

While there are, and probably will continue to be concerns, I got paid to fix them, and if they weren't breaking, I didn't get paid.

I've never seen a HEUI run without any oil in the crankcase. I can't help but think of how long it takes to get one started after an injector replacement when the oil has drained back to the crankcase or the high pressure reservoir is empty/low. Can't say that I ever tried to start one dry though...

Last time I looked there were at least 20 oils that met the API certifications(CI-4, CH-4, CG-4) that CAT specified. They can recommend whatever they want, and require whatever they want for warranty repairs(and dealer use), but if it meets the certifications - it meets the certifications. With that said, some seem to perform better than others.....same with the filters. And more than once, a drain and refill of the crankcase with the "preferred" products fixed driveability concerns.

Your experiences may certainly be different, but if you're that bitter about the manufacturer you support in one form or another - you might want to look for another job.





Hmm..Cat, 7.3, 6.0, 6.2/6.5. are you a tech for a GM medium duty/ truck dealership, that would explain the Cat and GM motors, but not the Ford/IH junk.

The most experience I have with HEUI is the 7.3 in Ford trucks, and there has only been one that has really kicked my ass., Really long story, so I am not going to type it out here. From a engineering standpoint, it is a good system, no need for a high pressure fuel pump, or cam actuation of the injector. Downside, is increaded risk of oil/fuel contamination, adding the variable of the HPOP and control system, and a limit as to how much fuel the system can inject ( I do a lot of performance stuff, and this is a big issue)

Had a little work with the 3126 when I was with the local Caterpillar dealership. We had the most problems with them in Kodiak's, a lot of time they were feed trucks, so oil contamination was the main problem.

When it comes to Diesel engines, I like simplicty. Mechanical high pressure fuel systems like the 3406B, or cam actuated injectors like the NTC Cummins. Less variences, more availible fuel delivery. But would never meet emissions because of limited timing and duration control.

Oh, and as far as the no oil deal. Had a truck with a 3126E rupture an oil filter, and it ran long enough to put some marks on the cylinder walls, it stopped as soon as the oil resivoir ran empty.
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