In this thread I posted about getting my son a Yamaha TT-R50 and I picked up a KTM 125sx.  I've been riding with him and he's doing great.

However, the 125 sits so high and along with the other non user-friendly things (no kickstand, 2 stroke smoke and noise, etc) I decided to sell it.  I loved the power it had, and with the aftermarket suspension any air I got was a non-issue (although i'm not some extreme rider or anything).  However, it's not the best bike for helping a little kid out and the GF wouldn't go near it.  Almost all of riding will be with one or both of them.

I picked up one of these, thinking it would make a good bike for the GF and I'd find a 450.  I wanted something street legal so she and I could ride to local forest roads and trails.

2008 Honda CRF230L



I've been tooling around on this thing and I love it.  It's so underpowered it's ridiculous, but it's hilarious fun, it tops out around 65 (and it's in no rush to get to 40MPH here in town).  But it's so light, so low and nimble that I smile every time I'm on the thing.  The suspension isn't anything that's going to handle big jumps but I'm ok with that.

Now, I'm trying to decide what to get for myself.  I've thought about another one of these 230's, but more power really would be nice.  I could go to a KLR or other 650 dual sport, or I could get a street legal 450.  Not sure if a 450 would strike a good balance between a heavier adventure bike like a KLR/DR or not.

Any thoughts on how those would ride?  I need to find a few for sale and get my own butt on the saddles of course, but any input would be valuable.

If you want to get on the highway, you need at least 600cc.....IIRC

Highways around here require 125 cc.  Which seems nuts to me.  I get batted around on my VStrom.

I'll get the main questions out of the way so others can help.

Suzuki DR650

There are some street-legal dualsport 250s out there, like the Kawasaki KLX-250s and the Yamaha WR-250F.  The problem with the 250s is the power for getting to the trails, and the smaller gas tanks.

I have a KLX-250s and it is great in the canyons and fire roads, but you need to keep an eye on the tank on longer excursions.  I can stop at Ted's Place after a run through the canyons to top off, but the ride back on the highway on the small bike can be a white-knuckler.

For a larger bike, there are bigger ones like the Suzuki DR-650 and the Kawasaki KLR650.  Bigger tanks, and more power and weight if you will be on pavement.

I am not sure what you would look at if you went away from the major commercial bikes.  I have my eye on a KTM Duke 390 but that's for the pavement.

Around town versus off road maybe 60/40.  While I'd like some power for highway trips, that might take the form of another bike for me, maybe something like a V Strom.  I don't want to compromise that much.  This winter I've mostly ridden my harley, which feels like a 1979 Caprice compared to this little 230.  Maybe that's why I've had so much fun on it so far.



I can do my own maintenance, but for now I wouldn't want to get back into a 2 stroke.

I think a DRZ400 might make a good blend of a machine, but I've never ridden one.  I'm also assuming that the newer 250cc liquid cooled four strokes might have just enough more oomph over this 230 to make me happy.

There's a KLX250 on Craigslist I might go check out.

I'm gonna head down to Valley (off the Berthoud exit) this morning to play on this 230.  Might hit some of the Loveland dealerships on the way back up.  I really want to take this thing up Old Flowers Road but not sure if it's open this time of year?

Here would be my list to checkout

I'm partial to BMW's dual sport bikes because I own one and have owned several. Mine is an R1200GS, which may be more bike than you want, but the G650GS or the F700GS would definitely be worth a look. The G650GS is a single cylinder, the 700 is a twin. Both have plenty of torque, suspension travel, and comfortable seat heights for on and off road riding.

That DRZ-400 may be worth a ride.  A friend let me try out his DR-600 on a ride- it seemed a bit top heavy so the 400 version may be more trail-friendly.

The KLX-250s can be tuned a bit.  First off, the stock jetting and needle settings were poor for our altitude.  I put on a FMF Q4 exhaust and re-jetted with some KLR parts.  (Lots of information on Thumpertalk and kawasakiforums.com)

Another consideration, since you are handy, would be a little gem called the Bill Blue 350 kit.  I am considering it myself, since I like the 250s so much but would like a bit more power.  It would result in a light and nimble 350- then you may just have to address the tank, but there are aftermarket options for that.

Husqvarna TE 250/310,   the dealer are damn near giving them away now,  6g for a brand new one is very common at this point.

The Yamaha is the WR250R.
It has no problems keeping up with any street legal 650 (Not the dirt XR650R).
The KLX250S is a big bore kit and a carb away from keeping up with the Yamaha.

Good Choice

 

That's good to hear about the 450.  You can plate them here, and I'd heard they are a handful but I spoke with a guy today at the track with one and he finds is easy to ride and nimble.  



On the saleswoman's cheek?  Sure.

In before KLR owners.

I just sold a WRR in favor of a FZ-09. The WRR is a good all around bike. Does everything good and nothing great.

My ninja 250 would disagree

The baddest dual sport you can buy right now is a KTM 500 EXC. Its a race bike that happens to be street legal. I had the 530. They are monsters.

I've got an 800GS - it is heavy. It likes to take naps pretty frequently when it is in the squishy stuff

 

This always comes down to where do you want your performance/comfort? On the dirt or on the road? And, how long do you want to ride? To the next trail or 100 miles and then some back roads?



There's no good answer if you buy the wrong bike for the riding you intend to do.



A WR250R is a fantastic "do all" bike with plenty of power, great trail manners, reliable and fun as hell (kicks that Honda's wimpy ass, too).



The DRZ400 is a decent all arounder, it's not particularly good at anything but will do most things.



The DR650/KLR's are heavy fucking pigs, but have great road manners and are cheap and ubiquitous.



Then, there's the KTM's....which are awesome grin machines, but pricey and more race-bred for dirt.

This guy knows what he's talking about. You also have the adventure touring bikes and my favorite of those would be a triumph tiger 800.

Let me give you some advice I gave a woman at work many years ago when she told me she was getting her 2 sons dirt bikes.  I told her everybody I ever knew that rhode bikes got hurt badly on bikes and dirt bikes.  She went ahead anyway and got them their dirt bikes.  Six months later one of her sons crashed his bike and was run over by another kid.  He broke his hip, pelvis, leg and was in the hospital with a bad infection.  She ended up having a fund raiser for all the fucking hospital bills and had the balls to bitch at me because I didn't go to her fucking ziti dinner.  I told her to fuck off.  Just my 2 cents.

KLX... great gas mileage handles like a dream added a filter/ pipe and jetting and it will do 90 mph on GPS ..  Mine is the shorter SF version with different gearing than the S how ever .

Guy here at work was dating a girl who had a teen age son with a dirt bike. She had no health insurance but enough $ for a dirt bike for her pot smoking son. Short story, he wrecks bike, compound fracture, air lifted to hospital = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

WTF

If you look for a drz, try and find a plated off road model as they have a bit more power, at least the one I rode was a noticeable difference. I've had a drz and now a wr450, both were/ are motards and almost exclusively ridden on the street so take this for what it's worth.

Of those two, the drz was more civil and easier to ride but a bit boring, they are known for being bomb proof.  The WR just rips, but takes a bit a bit more attention to ride. Think roll on 3rd gear wheelies. Both suck on the highway especially the WR since it's so light. If be hard pressed to give the WR up.

How about a Honda Dr 650. Heavy, but bullet proof and should be at least somewhat serviceable on the highway.

KLR - no so hot off road.
250 4 stroke - not enough nuts for me

I would just upgrade the ktm to a 300.

Seriously though, have you thought about the DRz400 or the XR650l?

I have a plated WR450f. It is a blast to ride but there are a few pitfalls for road use. The seat sucks for sitting on for any length of time. The transmission isn't designed for the shock loads of pavement use. The tank is only 2 gal so the range isn't fantastic. The gearing is not good for average road speeds. The cooling system isn t adequate for stop and go riding. It will over heat quickly if you get stuck in any type of traffic on even moderately warm days. The bike can get pretty nervous on DOT knobbies at speeds over 65-70. It is also very easy to break the law while riding it lol.

I have made a few changes over the years on mine to make it more user friendly. Along with the usual mods like bars/grips/handguards etc, i also did the following
3.3 gal Acerbis tank
Guts racing tall / soft seat
Trail Tech Stryker Speedo / computer
Changed gearing.
I also softened up the rear spring a bit and dropped the forks about 7.5mm in the trees.
Dakar street legal kit ( which I would not recommend)

Overall, I love it. Dont get to ride it much anymore but its there if i get a chance. Funnest bike I've ever owned. Its actually a great commuter bike if you can keep it on back roads under 50-55 mph. It will get around 45 mpg if you dont hammer the throttle all day. FWIW, i bought it new in 04 with the intention of making it road legal because there wasn't much avail for lightweight powerful on/off stuff out there. If I was going to do it all over again, I wouldve just bought a KTM. And while the WR with free mods has more than enough power for the average person off road ( I would fit better on a 250 in that area) the 450 is sooooo much fun on twisty roads. Even after changing the gearing to tone down the RPMs at higher street speeds, it will still wheelie on demand  up thru 4th gear and the corner to corner acceleration/ fun factor is well beyond any steel tanked 80% on 20% off unit you can buy.

I would also think a DRz 400 would be an excellent choice for the average person or perhaps even a plated XR400 if u can find a decent one.

Hope this helps some

The WR. Please excuse the Monster graphics,  I let my then 11 yo son pick them out haha.

Pete I've got a low mileage WR250X with a set of dirt wheels I'm looking to sell quickly...

I think your physical fitness and how much work you want to do offroad are important factors too.  The KLX250 is a 300lb bike, which is at the upper limit of what I would want to take off road (I'm 5'10", 160lbs).  I can manage a heavier bike, but I wouldn't have as much fun.  Of course, I guess what you define as "offroad"  factors in there too - I've seen ride reports from guys "offroading" with their KLR650s and posting pictures that look like they're on a gravel driveway.  

It sounds like you've already got a bike or bikes for touring, so I think you'd be better served by getting something like the KLX and upgrading the header, muffler, and snorkel, jetting the carb, etc if you've got to have the extra power.

I love my DRZ, it gets heavy picking up again and again on knarly trails, vibrates the shit out of your hands and feet on the road at highway speeds, but is a blast.

SM model along with a pair of E wheels and kickstarter kit (not pictured) here. Any model most versatile bike I would proclaim.

FCR-MX carb and custom MRD pipe helped a lot. Could always go all-out and get big-bore and stroker plus cams and porting.





I bought the Suzuki gel seat which helped greatly with my short self being able to flat-foot, it has a rounded profile.

I sat on a KTM, which felt like a bicycle between my legs comparatively, but for my riding, the DRZ fits the bill. Huge support community on thumpertalk as well.

They are monsters for sure, I had a 450.

Light and fast and once geared way lower than stock could ride up almost anything.

You'd want to add a cush drive for extended (hard) road use from what I was told, I didn't have any issues since I always ran knobbies.

The constant oil changes get old fast though, and highways were easily doable, just not fun.

And those are the bragging rights pics.

I've seen guys hustle a KLR650 around a real track. For about 15 minutes.

DRZ-400 with a jet kit, airbox mod and pipe.  

If you want to nutup to a real off-road go-fast bike, then a KTM EXC is your answer. I like the 450.

I've owned both before going back to a CR-250. The DRZ is a blast on the street and is light touring capable. I'll have a new EXC-450 sometime soon. It's a great dirtbike that can spend time on the street.

I'm happy with my drz400. I've had 5 dirt bikes in the last 6 years to compare it with. It's not the best at anything but it will do everything.

Never take a KLR 650 on an expressway. That's beyond unsafe. It does fine on small highways and roads, it's off road capable as in trails and such. Fun knock around bike.

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I just put the 685 kit in my KLR...  handles it much better.

http://www.bigdogadventures.com/WR250R.htm

Here's a guy who rode a WR250R to Alaska and back!

I have a 2013 KTM 690 Enduro R.  It is by far the best true dual sport bike I've ever ridden.  Unlike most KTM's, the 690's maintenance schedule is very relaxed.  

This pretty much sums up the current selection of dual sports.



With that said, I had a DR650 and am happy with it.  It doesn't see much off road use, but has in the past an in stock form ( OEM TrailWings ) was able to bring me up many gnarly climbs in Utah.



 

He wins.

I have a BMW G450X. Excellent bike. Very light and lots of power.

trying to make one bike fill many roles is always disappointing. if you need a bike to ride with the gf and the kid buy a bike for that purpose. i just sold my wr 250f but i will own another one some day.
450 offroaders suck for highway and gf/kid rides, if you are trying to blow your homies away on the trail 450's are awesome.
if i were looking 60/40 on/offroad with kids/gf it would be a 250 four stroke. buy a road bike or adv bike for the highway

There has been no mention of seat height so far. OP needs to decide whether he wants to flat foot, or tippy toe at stoplights - or whether he wants to throw a leg over the bike or climb aboard.  My Suzuki DR650 has a seat height of 32".  With a 14t primary on my DR, I wouldn't hesitate to take it out to CO and run on the jeep trails and fire roads. One disadvantage of low seat height is that it takes a bit more effort to stand on the pegs in the rough stuff.

That's because your ninja 250 isn't a dual sport.  A ninja 250 probably has as much top end horsepower as a KLR 650.  However, a KLR650 can just about idle up the side of a mountain.

I have about 25,000 miles on my '08 KLR650.  It's a great bike if you can handle the extra weight, and I single track it often.  I can ride it for an hour to get to the trails, ride single track all day, and then ride home without ever worrying about how much gas is in my tank.  It is NOT for everyone though.

The Suzuki DR650 is slightly better for offroad since it is lighter but has less wind protection and less fuel capacity.
The Suzuki DR400 is probably the best compromise if you want to do some pretty nasty trails and still hit the highway once in a while.  Around here the KTM 400-450 size bikes are the most popular with the guys who ride fast and hard.
I personally don't get the 250's for dual sport use.  I see 250's as offroad bikes that "can" be ridden on public roads if needed.  Just my opinion.

Here is my plated dirt warrior... 300 2t baby!  I have super moto wheels that have never been used on it.  For me, the plate is just for getting from trail to trail legally.

I like the lower seat height on the 230, hated the high seat and pegs of the 125.

So what's your advice?

Please explain the physics behind this.

The 685 kit piston weighs LESS than the stock 650 piston so the bike is actually lighter.
How does this work?

A big bore kit will make a bike handle better?

You do know you can buy a lower seat and have the suspension lowered to fit you.

For the most part I agree, although the 230 is fun around town. I wouldn't take it on the highway but might just commute the 20 miles to the track/dirt bike park rather than loading it into my truck at times.

Maybe I'll go look at DRZ400s, seems like that might be where I wind up on this.

At this point I'd rather have a dirt bike that sucks a little on the street than a street bike that sucks on dirt.  I could always put knobbies on the Harley...

Yeah, and if it was a 4 stroke bike I would have done some of that but I wanted a 4t/stret legal bike.

As it was, the KTM was spending too much time on the street.....