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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:00:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 1:07:03 PM EST by axl]
An unfortunate experience endured by a well intentioned member got me to thinking - as a matter of interest to others who wish to do right by friends and family, what are the "lessons learned" of dos and don't regarding druggies? I have two first cousins in this category. One, a female in her fifties, has been in jail several times. I keep a very distant relationship with her. The other is about thirty, in and out of jail, same shit. I allow neither to visit my home, access to my phone numbers, you name it. I have no trust in them whatsoever. In and out of treatment, dozens of jobs, keeps my family in turmoil, really really fucked up. Always need help. About to lose the car, no car no job, about to get evicted, need bail money, need treatment money, kids need dental work, car broke down, need a place to stay a few days, it goes on and on. Sad part is that family enables them to continue.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 7:11:43 AM EST
Im no angel...but I left my demons in Florida when I moved. I call one guy occasionally but its one sad story after another

Ive got basically three old/best friends from when I was growing up in Maine. One is a machinist and my gunsmith...another just retired from the Navy and works in Cabella's gun dept.

The third just never grew up and is strung out on something(meth , I think) and a lifelong drunk.I completely avoid him at all costs. He's had so many chances to smaten up and get on with his life, but blown every one. Its just plain depressing to be around him. His meth-mouthed-skank-whore,worthless cunt of a girlfriend isnt helping matters either.

Sometimes you just have to let your friends drown , or they will take you down with them.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:19:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 11:23:41 AM EST by Fireguy3]
I just got done with 10.5 year paid sentence ..err...i mean job working with druggies!

NOBODY should help provide them with ANYTHING they need!! Why? Though it may be hard to watch most alcoholics and Drug addicts meet their Waterloo.. they will do nothing to change their circumstances until they hit bottm without a parachute...HARD!!! Or overdose and die before it happens.

I am now training to go truck driving, after 10.5 years of listening to Victims of Life in general and their incessant whining about how life does them dirty, mommy and daddy didn't love me, my dad was never there, i can't no job doing anything else, i cannot find a way to relax without it, you don't understand, I'm worthless etc. and all the other rationalizing and excusing bullshit addicts can come up while trying to run you(who are trying to help them) down so they can feel better about themselves, i will enjoy the peace and quiet of being alone sailing a land ship down the interstate.

Am i now caloused about drug using losers who have no impulse control, will try to develop any because it requires effort and blame everyone and everything around them ...oh yeah!! Addicts can officially go f*ck themselves!!

My cousin who lost his $60,000 a year flatbed driving job for smoking "wet" along with the rest of them.

This is not to say i do not have respect for the ones who are recoving from chemical addiction, either alcohol or drug, they are working hard everyday to keep their sobriety and life on track again, to them I salute you for making the cut.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:22:42 AM EST
They will steal anything from anybody to pay for their next fix. Dying parent/sick kid/ you name it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:27:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 11:32:44 AM EST by Baldmonk]
I have close family members of that catergory. You can't help them and only bad things will come from trying. Only they can help themselves.

Until they decide to change (if they ever do). Cut contact. It's for your own good. Life is tough that way. I know this from expirence with 2 brothers that will probably never straighten up and turn around. I have 2 kids of my own and cannot afford to have any contact anymore. My mom is still enabling them though and can't convince her to quit, because it's not helping anyone.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:37:05 AM EST
I did that to my mom. I haven't seen her in ten years, other than happening to see her in a store where she didn't recognize me before I got the chance to turn down an isle and exit the store without talking to her. The last time I saw her, I had to pick her up from rehab so we could go to my grandfather's (my dad's side) funeral. Every time someone has tried to help her, she fucks it up royally. I have not been dumb enough to get sucked in and just stayed away. She has grandchildren she has never met and will never meet.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:38:37 AM EST
I grew up with alcohol & drug abuse. The best advice I ever got was at an AL-ANON meeting. I highly suggest it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:39:39 AM EST
I have some folks in the family that are like that, and I keep away from them. My life is better for it, too.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:41:17 AM EST
I've known a few drug addicts/users over the span of my life.

I'd say about 80% are shitbags that are not to be trusted.

A solid 20%, however, are incredible people who are doing extremely well for themselves, and I trust them.

The 80% group tend to be addicts. The 20% group tend to be people who dabble in drugs. By dabble, I mean take various drugs no more than perhaps 3-5 times a year. They also tend to experiment more so with psychedelics and the likes, rather than stuff like meth.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:42:54 AM EST
Also, then there is the .001% population who take massive amounts of drugs and become icons.

H.S. Thompson is one that immediatley comes to mind.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:44:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By axl:
An unfortunate experience endured but a well intentioned member got me to thinking - as a matter of interest to others who wish to do right by friends and family, what are the "lessons learned" of dos and don't regarding druggies? I have two first cousins in this category. One, a female in her fifties, has been in jail several times. I keep a very distant relationship with her. The other is about thirty, in and out of jail, same shit. I allow neither to visit my home, access to my phone numbers, you name it. I have no trust in them whatsoever. In and out of treatment, dozens of jobs, keeps my family in turmoil, really really fucked up. Always need help. About to lose the car, no car no job, about to get evicted, need bail money, need treatment money, kids need dental work, car broke down, need a place to stay a few days, it goes on and on. Sad part is that family enables them to continue.

I know what you are experiencing. It's sad yet infuriating.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:06:46 PM EST
Family - can be the most resilient and forgiving aspect of one's life, yet can also be the enabling factor that continues to provide the means for the addiction. What has always surprised me is the way the druggies use their family; smart capable intelligent people who absolutely know better and still continue to forgive and try again. I guess I'm too cynical: I am polite and detached. Do not want them showing up at my house needing a place to stay or some money.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:12:30 PM EST
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:15:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:25:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


Experience? Trust me, I have experience with this. Family member, dead. Old acquaintances in and out of rehab, one serving time for accessory to murder, supportively sitting through several group sessions...drug users aren't exactly unknown to me.

Much like everything else in this world, drug users may seem like a black and white issue, when in all reality there are varying shades of gray. Some are worthless junkies, some are productive members of society who like to get high from time to time. Just cause your cousin Billy Jo Jack steals your grandma's social security checks to go chasing the dragon doesn't mean that every other user is the same.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:37:20 PM EST
a buddy of mine reconized he was following down his brothers path early, get some help and today hes doing fine (except for being a liberal hippy)
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:46:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


Experience? Trust me, I have experience with this. Family member, dead. Old acquaintances in and out of rehab, one serving time for accessory to murder, supportively sitting through several group sessions...drug users aren't exactly unknown to me.

Much like everything else in this world, drug users may seem like a black and white issue, when in all reality there are varying shades of gray. Some are worthless junkies, some are productive members of society who like to get high from time to time. Just cause your cousin Billy Jo Jack steals your grandma's social security checks to go chasing the dragon doesn't mean that every other user is the same.
Well said.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 1:54:01 PM EST
But some here say drugs are victimless?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:47:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But some here say drugs are victimless?


The drugs themselves don't create victims. Those who cannot handle their abuse create victims.

If thuggy fresh robbed your family at gun point and spent the money on some new Air Jordans and a chain, would you consider the fashion industry to be responsible for what happened?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:50:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By axl:
An unfortunate experience endured by a well intentioned member got me to thinking - as a matter of interest to others who wish to do right by friends and family, what are the "lessons learned" of dos and don't regarding druggies? I have two first cousins in this category. One, a female in her fifties, has been in jail several times. I keep a very distant relationship with her. The other is about thirty, in and out of jail, same shit. I allow neither to visit my home, access to my phone numbers, you name it. I have no trust in them whatsoever. In and out of treatment, dozens of jobs, keeps my family in turmoil, really really fucked up. Always need help. About to lose the car, no car no job, about to get evicted, need bail money, need treatment money, kids need dental work, car broke down, need a place to stay a few days, it goes on and on. Sad part is that family enables them to continue.


Cut all ties. These people bring no value to your life, but will bring plenty of risk and drama.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:55:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 2:58:17 PM EST by oulufinn]
Realizing that you can NOT "fix" them is key. Any help you give is wasted and enables their self destruction. (Unless it is moral support or throwing water on them if on fire.)

They need to realize they are out of control and must decide to seek help. I've seen a few real success stories, but MANY lost causes. Darwin ain't wrong.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:58:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But some here say drugs are victimless?


The drugs themselves don't create victims. Those who cannot handle their abuse create victims.

If thuggy fresh robbed your family at gun point and spent the money on some new Air Jordans and a chain, would you consider the fashion industry to be responsible for what happened?


Clothing does not mess with the mind.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:00:29 PM EST
Cut them out of your life like the cancer they are.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:02:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Realizing that you can NOT "fix" them is key. Any help you give is wasted and enables their self destruction. (Unless it is moral support or throwing water on them if on fire.)


I've been on both ends of the addiction revolving door. I was an booze/meth addict for many years ending in 1989.

Quite simply, you can't fix an addict unless they want to be fixed. All the interventions, jail and 12 step programs are useless until the addict themselves decides it's time to get help.

Don't help them, don't give them money, don't give them anything. If the want help, they'll pull their head out of their ass and ask for it.

I know, I've been there.

ZM
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:09:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But some here say drugs are victimless?


The drugs themselves don't create victims. Those who cannot handle their abuse create victims.

If thuggy fresh robbed your family at gun point and spent the money on some new Air Jordans and a chain, would you consider the fashion industry to be responsible for what happened?


Clothing does not mess with the mind.


It's tricky. While there are some situations where I would agree the drug is responsible for dramatically altering the person in a negative way, it is always up to the person to take the drugs initially.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:13:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 3:14:43 PM EST by EXPcustom]

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


I know a highly decorated marine that was in Cambodia in 75 and had a long carear as a enlisted marine. He became a Heroin addict after honorably discharging sometime in the late 80's.

He never stole from anyone and always worked to support his habit. He is always in and out of jail on petty unpaid tickets or possesion charges.

I know his family very well and they can attest to his good character but he does have a drug problem.

99% of drug addicts are no good and I totally agree with what most people say but there are exceptions to the rule.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:14:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
But some here say drugs are victimless?


The drugs themselves don't create victims. Those who cannot handle their abuse create victims.

If thuggy fresh robbed your family at gun point and spent the money on some new Air Jordans and a chain, would you consider the fashion industry to be responsible for what happened?


Clothing does not mess with the mind.


I beg to differ. For a lot of shopaholics, going on a shopping spree will release dopamine which in turn makes the shopper happier and changes their attitude. So in a way, they are in fact, getting high.

Example: I know a person who uses cocaine once every few months. He's an alcoholic pothead, but does toot on special occasions. He doesn't use it to the point where it damages his financial stability and he keeps its use low. On the other hand, the girl I'm seeing now does no drugs with the exception of an occasional bottle of wine, but shes constantly shopping and returning goods. Debit card is always over drawn, she can barely afford gas to get to work a few days before her payday and its all because "Ohhh I need that mirror" or "That purse would go so well with my shoes"

Financial responsibly and addiction vary greatly from person to person.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:15:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done.


The thing is I do have experience with them and what you say is not my experience.

I have been around quite a few folks when I spent a few years bartending who were recreational/weekend users who did not rob/steal to support anything. They spent the money they made working.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:25:44 PM EST
As a parole officer, it is my experience that MOST OF THE TIME, the drug is stronger than the individual and what I mean by that is even with the risk of going to jail, the individual goes back to the drugs.

The exception to this is when I get a young client who is using who, through violating probation/parole/intermediate punishment, goes to jail for the first time in their lives and realizes that their priorities are screwed and that they need to change them ASAP.

As far as familiy/friends go, they can be the biggest asset AND the biggest detriment to the client because families friends will take in a client and help him/her get back on their feet but they have to learn to say "NO", especially when it comes to giving out cash.

When doing parole plans, clients uaully give an address of a family member. When I interview the family member, most think that their Fred or Frida is special and they won't screw up again. I tell them thatthere are inherent risks involved in boarding addicts, ie: stole property/money. I'll usually get calls a few weeks later from disgruntled parents asking me to pick up little Fred or Frida and take them back to jail or they'll complain about missing jewelry/money/GUNS/electronics/tools/etc. My response is usually to conduct a field visit and instruct parents to contact police if anything else is removed.

My point is that if your friend/relative has had a track record of drug use and doesn't respond well to jail/treatment/etc., I would steer clear of them. Nothing you can do will change their ways. However, if we're talking about a kid/young adult with little or no history of jail/treatment your help could be beneficial to them.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:28:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By TarzanFainberg:
As a parole officer, it is my experience that MOST OF THE TIME, the drug is stronger than the individual and what I mean by that is even with the risk of going to jail, the individual goes back to the drugs.

The exception to this is when I get a young client who is using who, through violating probation/parole/intermediate punishment, goes to jail for the first time in their lives and realizes that their priorities are screwed and that they need to change them ASAP.

As far as familiy/friends go, they can be the biggest asset AND the biggest detriment to the client because families friends will take in a client and help him/her get back on their feet but they have to learn to say "NO", especially when it comes to giving out cash.

When doing parole plans, clients uaully give an address of a family member. When I interview the family member, most think that their Fred or Frida is special and they won't screw up again. I tell them thatthere are inherent risks involved in boarding addicts, ie: stole property/money. I'll usually get calls a few weeks later from disgruntled parents asking me to pick up little Fred or Frida and take them back to jail or they'll complain about missing jewelry/money/GUNS/electronics/tools/etc. My response is usually to conduct a field visit and instruct parents to contact police if anything else is removed.

My point is that if your friend/relative has had a track record of drug use and doesn't respond well to jail/treatment/etc., I would steer clear of them. Nothing you can do will change their ways. However, if we're talking about a kid/young adult with little or no history of jail/treatment your help could be beneficial to them.


Out of curiosity, are most of you cases people who have criminals offenses above and beyond drug possession or are there usually other crimes involved?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 3:45:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bill247:

Originally Posted By TarzanFainberg:
As a parole officer, it is my experience that MOST OF THE TIME, the drug is stronger than the individual and what I mean by that is even with the risk of going to jail, the individual goes back to the drugs.

The exception to this is when I get a young client who is using who, through violating probation/parole/intermediate punishment, goes to jail for the first time in their lives and realizes that their priorities are screwed and that they need to change them ASAP.

As far as familiy/friends go, they can be the biggest asset AND the biggest detriment to the client because families friends will take in a client and help him/her get back on their feet but they have to learn to say "NO", especially when it comes to giving out cash.

When doing parole plans, clients uaully give an address of a family member. When I interview the family member, most think that their Fred or Frida is special and they won't screw up again. I tell them thatthere are inherent risks involved in boarding addicts, ie: stole property/money. I'll usually get calls a few weeks later from disgruntled parents asking me to pick up little Fred or Frida and take them back to jail or they'll complain about missing jewelry/money/GUNS/electronics/tools/etc. My response is usually to conduct a field visit and instruct parents to contact police if anything else is removed.

My point is that if your friend/relative has had a track record of drug use and doesn't respond well to jail/treatment/etc., I would steer clear of them. Nothing you can do will change their ways. However, if we're talking about a kid/young adult with little or no history of jail/treatment your help could be beneficial to them.


Out of curiosity, are most of you cases people who have criminals offenses above and beyond drug possession or are there usually other crimes involved?


I'd say its about 35/65. 35% of the charges are for possession, paraphernalia, PWID, and delivery. 65% are for charges that are not explicitly drug related but they are crimes that are done to get drugs or as a result of being on drugs. Some of those charges would be forgery, access device fraud, retail theft, burglary, DUI, simple/aggravated assault, etc. We usually find out these people are users through simply reading the criminal complaint, prior record check, initial drug test upon intake, or admission of prior drug use/treatment.

What this tells me, at least, is that even though drug use may be a victimless crime, the need to use again and again usually results in the user engaging in some sort of illegal activity.

I have a girl whose MO is forging checks to get money for OCs. She's been in and out of jail since I got her case 3 times.

Another girl will steal DVDs from stores to trade them to her dealer for rocks. I can't even recall how many times she's been in and out of jail since I got her case almost 4 years ago.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 4:28:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


Experience? Trust me, I have experience with this. Family member, dead. Old acquaintances in and out of rehab, one serving time for accessory to murder, supportively sitting through several group sessions...drug users aren't exactly unknown to me.

Much like everything else in this world, drug users may seem like a black and white issue, when in all reality there are varying shades of gray. Some are worthless junkies, some are productive members of society who like to get high from time to time. Just cause your cousin Billy Jo Jack steals your grandma's social security checks to go chasing the dragon doesn't mean that every other user is the same.


Seen lots of users...... In my close 40 some years, never a productive member of society.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 5:34:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


Experience? Trust me, I have experience with this. Family member, dead. Old acquaintances in and out of rehab, one serving time for accessory to murder, supportively sitting through several group sessions...drug users aren't exactly unknown to me.

Much like everything else in this world, drug users may seem like a black and white issue, when in all reality there are varying shades of gray. Some are worthless junkies, some are productive members of society who like to get high from time to time. Just cause your cousin Billy Jo Jack steals your grandma's social security checks to go chasing the dragon doesn't mean that every other user is the same.


Seen lots of users...... In my close 40 some years, never a productive member of society.


Or maybe you just don't notice who uses and who doesn't when you meet productive people.

I was raised outside NYC in a very affluent area. Lots of young professionals working in manhatten used occasionally and discretely.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:48:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:58:57 PM EST by TarzanFainberg]

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:

Originally Posted By Baldmonk:

Originally Posted By Lefthandpath:
As long as they manage to financially support their addiction without stealing, I'm fine with them.


The thing is if you had any expierence with this, you would know that can't be done. Best to cut your loses and minimize your exposure to the maximum extent practical.


Experience? Trust me, I have experience with this. Family member, dead. Old acquaintances in and out of rehab, one serving time for accessory to murder, supportively sitting through several group sessions...drug users aren't exactly unknown to me.

Much like everything else in this world, drug users may seem like a black and white issue, when in all reality there are varying shades of gray. Some are worthless junkies, some are productive members of society who like to get high from time to time. Just cause your cousin Billy Jo Jack steals your grandma's social security checks to go chasing the dragon doesn't mean that every other user is the same.


Seen lots of users...... In my close 40 some years, never a productive member of society.


Or maybe you just don't notice who uses and who doesn't when you meet productive people.

I was raised outside NYC in a very affluent area. Lots of young professionals working in manhatten used occasionally and discretely.


Poor or rich, it makes no difference except for how long it takes for the user to start stealing/commiting crimes to support their habits.

Yeah rich folk can put up a facade that everything's OK for a bit but after a while, if they keep it up, their world will go to shit.

Of course, in NYC as you've stated, people don;t get addicted to drugs!

Let me paraphrase Denis Leary: "If Hitler was selling coke, Jews would be in the bathroom with him saying 'I know you didn't do it! I like your mustache! Fucking Himmler!'"
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:05:02 PM EST
I have had to disown a whole side of the family due to drug use and other things. I havent seen or talked to my dad in about 7 years because there is a point to where you decide you dont want your children seeing someone sitting around drooling on themselves and barely able to speak.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 10:07:38 PM EST
If you ever have a problem with a druggo relative just give them $50 when they ask for money and tell them this is on the proviso that if you come back and are still an addict you have the right to tie them to a tree out bush until they have recovered. Because you care for them. They wont even take your take money.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 1:15:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bobmeister:
If you ever have a problem with a druggo relative just give them $50 when they ask for money and tell them this is on the proviso that if you come back and are still an addict you have the right to tie them to a tree out bush until they have recovered. Because you care for them. They wont even take your take money.


If they are a druggie, they will take the money. Then come back and steal stuff.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 1:19:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
I just got done with 10.5 year paid sentence ..err...i mean job working with druggies!

............


I consulted druggies for a while back in the early 70's, and I worked a drug hotline.

It was during that time I came to the realization that America is in dire need of an enema.
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