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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 1/8/2002 6:27:38 AM EDT
Greetings. I will be driving from my home in FL to N. Carolina and back in a couple of weeks, and want to bring along my Glock. I have a FL CCW. What are the pertinent laws in GA, SC and NC? Keep Glock in case, unloaded? I know only GA has a CCW reciprocity agreement with FL. Appreciate any input. MIJoe
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:06:10 AM EDT
I've done similar things in the past, and I called the NC and SC state police to ask them how they'd prefer I handled it. They told me that unloaded, locked in a case, ammo separate was ideal, and would not get a traffic cop riled up, should I be stopped. If you're just making the trip in one shot, you're good to go; you're allowed to go from point A in a state where your gun is legal, to point B, in a different state where your gun is legal, without restriction, even if that trip involves going through a state where your gun is *not* legal. You're not allowed to stop for any length of time in the draconian state, but short stops for gas and to use the catbox likely won't cause problems. Now, I seem to recall that SC has a bizarre law on the books that said that, unless you had a CCW, you could not carry a loaded gun in your vehicle. Ever. Unless you kept it in your glovebox. [whacko] Then you could do it without a license or permit... I just don't see the point of such a law. (Don't take my word on this, BTW; I lived in SC 5 years ago, and my memory is fuzzy). -BP
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 3:50:42 PM EDT
NC is an open carry state. Locked and Loaded is OK as long as it is in plain view. I place mine on the passenger seat. Been stopped no questions asked. If you need more info E-mail me. A great site for this kind of info is www.packing.org
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:45:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 1:59:40 AM EDT by cc48510]
Florida -- w/o CCW: Pistol Must be securely encased (Glove Box or Holster in the seat next to you) w/ CCW: Anywhere you damn well please
FRS 790.25(5): POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
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FRS 790.001: (16) "Readily accessible for immediate use" means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person. (17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
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Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:49:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 1:54:18 AM EDT by cc48510]
Georgia -- w/o CCW: In Plain View and not on the person w/ CCW: Any of the enumerated ways to carry specified under Georgia CCW Law or in plain view not on the person.
GRS 16-11-126: (d) This Code section shall not forbid the transportation of any firearm by a person who is not among those enumerated as ineligible for a license under Code Section 16-11-129, provided the firearm is enclosed in a case, unloaded, and separated from its ammunition. [red]This Code section shall not forbid any person who is not among those enumerated as ineligible for a license under Code Section 16-11-129 from transporting a loaded firearm in any private passenger motor vehicle in an open manner and fully exposed to view or in the glove compartment, console, or similar compartment of the vehicle;[/red] provided, however, that any person in possession of a valid permit issued pursuant to Code Section 16-11-129 may carry a handgun in any location in a motor vehicle.
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Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:55:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 1:56:00 AM EDT by cc48510]
South Carolina --
SCRS 16-23-20: Unlawful carrying of pistol; exceptions. It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any pistol, whether concealed or not, except as follows: (1) Regular, salaried law enforcement officers and reserve police officers of a municipality or county of the State, uncompensated Governor's constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators. (2) Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or of the National Guard, organized reserves, or the State Militia when on duty. (3) Members of organizations authorized by law to purchase or receive firearms from the United States or this State, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting or collecting modern and antique firearms while these members are at or going to or from their places of target practice or their shows and exhibits. (4) Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing. (5) Any person regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, repossession, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of this person while possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business. (6) Guards engaged in protection of property of the United States or any agency thereof. (7) Any authorized military or civil organizations while parading or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations. (8) Any person in his home, or upon his real property, or fixed place of business. [red](9) Any person in a vehicle where the pistol is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, or closed trunk.[/red] (10) Any person carrying a pistol unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or a fixed place of business or while in the process of the changing or moving of one's residence or the changing or moving of his fixed place of business. (11) Any prison guard while engaged in his official duties. (12) Any person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a pistol about his person, under conditions set forth in the permit. Persons authorized to carry weapons pursuant to items (6) and (12) of this section may exercise this privilege only after acquiring a permit from the State Law Enforcement Division as provided for in Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23.
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Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:56:08 AM EDT
North Carolina -- Appears to be an open carry state. I was unable to find any statute banning open carry and the NRA lists it as an Open Carry State. I also could find no regulations regarding carrying in your vehicle beyond the Concealed Weapons law bannign Concealed Carry w/o a CCW.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:58:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:05:34 AM EDT
I'd like to thank you all for the valuable info. Hopefully one day we will have a national CCW and avoid all the hassle of different regs in different states.
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:27:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MIJoe: I'd like to thank you all for the valuable info. Hopefully one day we will have a national CCW and avoid all the hassle of different regs in different states.
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ITYM "Hopefully one day the government will stop requiring a license to carry, whether concealed or not."
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 7:22:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 7:25:53 AM EDT by zoom]
In SC if it's in the passenger compartment, you must have it in a closed console or closed glove compartment. It can be loaded. Do not store it under your seat or on you in SC unless you have a concealed carry permit that SC recognizes. If caught, depending on which county you're in, you will probably be arrested. Also, make sure you store your registration and proof of insurance in a different place from your loaded pistol. In SC, it is a crime to open the console or glove compartment if it contains a firearm. So, if you store your registration with your firearm and you are stopped, you will have to pick which law you want to break. If you end-up at that point, ask the officer what to do. If he, like happened to my sister-in-law, is planning on keeping your license and having the car towed if you can't provide the registration, then you might want to break the firearm law. She thought it would be cheaper to handle the firearms charge than pay for the tow and impound fees. She was very wrong after getting the bill from her lawyer. The state law: "Section 16-23-20: It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any pistol, whether concealed or not, except as follows: ... (9) Any person in a vehicle where the pistol is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, or closed trunk" z
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 9:58:54 AM EDT
BrokenPaw, You wrote: "If you're just making the trip in one shot, you're good to go; you're allowed to go from point A in a state where your gun is legal, to point B, in a different state where your gun is legal, without restriction, even if that trip involves going through a state where your gun is *not* legal." I don't know about that one. What is your authority for this? Every state controls their own gun laws. Is this a federal law? Unless there is some federal law that prempts the state's law on this issue (which I'm not aware of) then, even if you are just passing through, and get pulled over, you can be arrested in that state if the manner in which you are carrying the weapon violates that state's law. The correct thing to do is what cc48510 did, which is to look at each states' law. It's the only way to be safe. If there is a federal law on this, please post it, I'd really be interested. Thanks, Right-to-Bear
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 11:36:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Right-to-Bear: If there is a federal law on this, please post it, I'd really be interested.
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I didn't originally hav a citation for it, because I initially heard about the law in a discussion in my local shooting club, but a Google search for "interstate transport firearms through states" yields (second result) an article here: [url]http://www.gunlaw.com/interstate.phtml[/url] which discusses 18 USC 926A, the "Safe Passage Act". The article was written in 1999. I don't know if new federal legislation has been enacted that supersedes it... This is the best info I can come up with whilst at the office... -BP
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 12:49:57 PM EDT
BrokenPaw, You da man. Sorry I ever doubted you. 18 U.S.C. 926A says: "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console." The only hitch is that you must be very careful what accesible means. In the annotations to this section, it cites a case where under the seats is accesible. I think that the purpose of this federal law is to ensure that you can ship guns from state to state (i.e. interstate commerce). Without this law, it potentially would be illegal for the postal service, UPS or Fed-Ex to have a gun in the back of their truck for delivery and drive through a state that prohibits that type of gun. It would cause big problems for delivery companies (or private citizens) to have to drive around various states that are not gun freindly to get to their final destination. However, the original discussion here seems to deal with keeping the gun in the glove box or console as you travel. This federal law does nothing to preempt state law that forbids that type of carry. Unless you are willing to travel with the gun and magazine completely unloaded in the trunk, then you'd better still check with each state. Thanks again for pointing out this federal law. You learn something new every day. Right-to-Bear
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 1:08:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Right-to-Bear: I think that the purpose of this federal law is to ensure that you can ship guns from state to state (i.e. interstate commerce). Without this law, it potentially would be illegal for the postal service, UPS or Fed-Ex to have a gun in the back of their truck for delivery and drive through a state that prohibits that type of gun. It would cause big problems for delivery companies (or private citizens) to have to drive around various states that are not gun freindly to get to their final destination.
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Kinda OT, but this raised an interesting issue in my mind: Can a person with a felony conviction on his record get a job at the US Postal Service or FedEx? If so, could he be in violation of federal law if he's (unknowingly) transporting a firearm? Does "having it in the back of the FedEx truck with 80 other boxes, not even knowing it's there" count as "possession"? -BP, da man! [:D]
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 4:05:16 PM EDT
If you were to drive through DC and were stopped by the PoPo they would lock you up for sure. The Capitol Police locked up a LEO from MD that was on capitol grounds with his PD gun, but was off duty. The USAO prosecuted the case!
Link Posted: 1/9/2002 6:48:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/9/2002 7:05:24 PM EDT by cc48510]
Most of the gun laws use the word knowingly. The supremes have interpreted this to mean that if a person is unaware that they are doing something it's ok. For example, one guy got off after being arrested for "possessing a MG" The guy was unaware his gun had the parts to be considered a MG. The case was reversed either by SCOTUS. The basic ruling is that if you are unaware the gun is of the type regulated or that the gun is there, you are not knowinly violationg the law.
Staples v. U.S., - U.S. - (1994) ([url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/staples_v_us.txt[/url]) This is also a very interesting case, where the Supreme Court reversed the 10th circuit and decided that in order to convict someone under the NFA of possessing an unregistered (untaxed) weapon, they must prove the defendant knew it was the sort of gun regulated by the NFA. In this case they had to show the defendant knew the rifle in question was fully automatic. This case was really answered in the Freed case ([url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/us_v_freed.txt[/url]), where the court said part of a violation of the NFA was the defendant's knowing the weapons in question were the sort subject to regulation. Freed held explicitly, and Staples didn't touch, that the government need not prove the defendant knew about the registration stuff, only the nature of the weapon that made it subject to registration. Lower courts had however been ignoring Freed, claiming the government needed to only show the guns were in fact the sort regulated, regardless of whether the defendant knew they had that feature. In Freed the NFA weapons were hand grenades, which made showing the defendant knew the nature of the weapons sort of irrelevant, although I guess there could have been an issue about whether he knew there was explosive material inside them. However with an mg, it can appear to be a regular semi-auto. This case will end a lot of stupid prosecution, for possessing a weapon that didn't work, but the feds could work on till it did, or for the feds to tape together parts kits - they can do whatever they want, but they will have to prove the defendant knew the thing was a machine gun, not just that they could make it behave as one.
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Bryan v. United States, - U.S. - (1998) ([url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/bryan_v_us2.txt[/url]) In this case the court affirms the 2nd circuit ruling ([url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/us_v_bryan.txt[/url]), which essentially equates the state of mind "wilfully" with "knowingly" in the Gun Control Act, even though both terms were used, and wilfully traditionally means a greater state of mind (awareness of what you are doing, whether it you it on purpose, versus whether you know you are violating the law in question) than knowingly. Justice Stevens, who believes gun owners are evil, decides that all the government need show is that the defendant knew he was violating any law, and not the specific requirement the defendant is being charged with. The addition of states of mind was a reform in the 1986 FOPA, before that ATF regularly got convictions against persons who had no idea they were doing anything wrong at all, and in fact thought they were just selling off their gun collection. This in essence repeals part of that reform, by judicial decision.
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Link Posted: 1/10/2002 7:14:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By cc48510: Most of the gun laws use the word knowingly. The supremes have interpreted this to mean that if a person is unaware that they are doing something it's ok.
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Hmm. If the burden of proof is on the government, then... If someone just [i]happened[/i] to give me a stripped post-ban lower as a present (which gives plausible deniability about knowledge of pre- versus post-ban lower receivers), and I just [i]happened[/i] to order a CAR kit from an online dealer, and (because the dealer's page defaults to having "pre-ban" as the default option...) just [i]happened[/i] to get a pre-ban kit with flash hider and telestock in the mail a few short days later... How could it be proved that I [i]knowingly[/i] assembled a prohibited weapon? All hypothetical, of course, you understand.
Link Posted: 1/10/2002 9:32:23 AM EDT
Actually that might work with Flash Suppressors. Most cannot tell the difference between a Flash Suppressor, Flash Hider, Compensator, or Muzzle Brake. Should a person argue that because of Staples that their not knowing that it was a Suppressor and not a Brake made it so that they didn't knowingly assemble a weapon of the type banned. Same goes for threads. Show me one person who can actually get a Suppressor off w/o special tools. How is one to know there are threads below ? This works if someone sells you something saying it is Post-Ban legal. If you unaware that the Brake is actually a suppressor and what that thingie under the sight is, then you could argue lack of knowledge. The real question is if someone sells you an AR-15 and says it is Pre-Ban and the Serial checks, if you would know that it is of the type banned. Sicne you do not know that it may have been sold stripped. This will throw one hell of a monkey wrench in the ATF ever prosecuting under it's new opinion.
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