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Posted: 9/21/2004 10:54:05 AM EST
HERE'S A CLUE - THE BAN IS DEAD, GONE, AND HAS GONE THE WAY OF A PIECE OF PAPER DROPPED DOWN THE FABLED MEMORY HOLE. YOU AIN'T GONNA GET $1600 FOR A 10 YEAR OLD CAR15!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:56:41 AM EST
Yeah..uuuhhhh...but it's a "collector's item"...yeah, that's it!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:58:04 AM EST
I saw one at a local gun shop yesterday for 2200 I told the guy he was nuts he said it was still worth that much because that is close to what he paid for it
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 10:59:23 AM EST
Clue? Where?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:00:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:01:27 AM EST
Well, I think it is kind of funny actually. I'm sure the same ppl. would/will raise the price of their old CAR15s to $2k plus if Kerry wins...
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:01:43 AM EST
what are you talking about? it's supply and demand...the supply of old guns is low and so therefore the demand must be high!!

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:02:15 AM EST
Offer and acceptance.... I'm glad I sold during peak, but if it the ban didnt die I would have been bitchN to myself

Q why do you torment yourself, stop looking in the EE

Oh here a side note, go and try to buy one, everyone is out of stock, except for the dealers selling noban new CAR15 for 1600.00
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:03:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:03:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
Offer and acceptance.... I'm glad I sold during peak, but if it the ban didnt die I would have been bitchN to myself

Q why do you torment yourself, stop looking in the EE

Oh here a side note, go and try to buy one, everyone is out of stock, except for the dealers selling noban new CAR15 for 1600.00



Nope...my local shop has Bushmaster LE carbines for $850.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:06:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 11:07:04 AM EST by DriftPunch]
I paid good money for my two preban ARs. I wanted what I wanted, and I knew it was going to be a premium, but my guns are not investments. In reality is that it was a gamble I could not afford not to take. If the ban was extended or made worse, I'd be golden. If it expired, I'd be happy as hell that it expired. I likee the ones I have, so I didn't feel the need to liquidate and run the risk of dealing with squaring away a replacement.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:11:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
Offer and acceptance.... I'm glad I sold during peak, but if it the ban didnt die I would have been bitchN to myself

Q why do you torment yourself, stop looking in the EE

Oh here a side note, go and try to buy one, everyone is out of stock, except for the dealers selling noban new CAR15 for 1600.00



Nope...my local shop has Bushmaster LE carbines for $850.



Hook a bruvva up! Kan I puts my gold toof down foe layaway?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:11:41 AM EST
Well, it's whatever the market will bear, I guess.

So what, pray tell, do you suggest that a dealer do with a "pre-ban" rifle, say a Colt SP-1, that he paid $1100 for a couple of years ago? Should he be forced to sell it at a $300 loss, just because the ban has expired?

I think he is entitled to ask whatever he wants for the article. Whether he ever gets it or not is up to the market. There will always be those that will pay a premium for the "cachet" value of particular items, be they rifles, guitars, cars or comic books.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:14:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Well, it's whatever the market will bear, I guess.

So what, pray tell, do you suggest that a dealer do with a "pre-ban" rifle, say a Colt SP-1, that he paid $1100 for a couple of years ago? Should he be forced to sell it at a $300 loss, just because the ban has expired?

I think he is entitled to ask whatever he wants for the article. Whether he ever gets it or not is up to the market. There will always be those that will pay a premium for the "cachet" value of particular items, be they rifles, guitars, cars or comic books.



He can ask whatever he wants. Just like I can ask $20,000 for my 8 year old Jeep because that's what I paid for it. I'm just going to have to put up with people thinking I'm a dumb ass because of it, just like the dealer asking $1600 for an old-ass AR.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:22:21 AM EST


I'm not selling, I'm not buying, I've still got new stripped lowers in my safe.

Why in the world are you getting so upset over it? Skip or click the back button and get on with your life.

It's no different than any other ad that is asking more than you are willing to pay.

People can ask whatever they want for anything, but in the end it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Even a fart in a jar.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:26:55 AM EST
Well, inasmuch as the ban (in most states, anyway) has been out of effect for, well, barely 200 hours, I think that it is way too soon to see where the market is going to shake out. I, for one, would certainly hope to see increasing downward pressure on rifle prices. I didn't choose the SP-1 at random in my previous post; I want a real one.

Your '96 Jeep analogy is a little weak, but I'll work with it. If your Jeep was undriven since new, and had all of the original documentation to go along with it, would you not agree that it would have a value significantly closer to what you originally paid for it? Look at the collector car marketplace. There are people paying into the hundreds of thousands of dollars for vehicles that may have sold for only a couple of thousand bucks when new. If, for some reason, Chevrolet were to begin manufacturing 1963 split-window Corvette coupes again, the drop in value of the original articles would be slight, if at all. Heck, you can buy a brand-new 427 Cobra, aluminum body and all, just like the originals, but that handful of originals only ever increase in value.

So, just as you might mock those that ask to at least recoup their original investment in a particular article, so might they mock those who offer what the market shows to be a ridiculously low amount.

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:31:54 AM EST
People can ask whatever they want for anything, but in the end it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Even a fart in a jar Is there a market for these farts in jars? Man I would be so rich!!! Awsome. Maybe I could even eat different things to get different smells. You and I could become partners. What says you?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:36:37 AM EST

my local shop has Bushmaster LE carbines for $850


My local shop has ZERO Bushmaster LE AR's. They had a whole rack full before the 13th!!!
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:42:51 AM EST
I said last week that GoatBoy should write a script that changes the words "pre-ban" into "old" in the EE.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:46:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By coondog:
People can ask whatever they want for anything, but in the end it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Even a fart in a jar Is there a market for these farts in jars? Man I would be so rich!!! Awsome. Maybe I could even eat different things to get different smells. You and I could become partners. What says you?



WTS - Preban fart in a jar. Excellent condition, still fresh & fragrant. $1600.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:49:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 11:51:16 AM EST by Waldo]

Mr. Obvious thinks someone is selling something that someone wants, but is asking more than someone is willing to pay. Isn't that right, caller?


Are their any other questions for Mr. Obvious today?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:54:29 AM EST
I always say, seemingly to the ether alone, that something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. What you "think" it is worth is irrelevant. In truth, it is worth just a penny less than you are willing to take for it (if you are the seller). If it sits on the shelf for a year because no one is willing to pay what you say it is worth, then it AIN'T worth that.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 11:56:21 AM EST
There are ravid cocksmokers everywhere who'll try to trick the uninformed mook into believing that 10 plus year old rifle is worth $1K or $2K. Let's face it, those dipshits are everywhere and they are the fools who these sellers are looking for. Not us.

I still laugh (to myself) when I peruse a gunshow and see these asstrolls trying to rip off uninformed buyers. Let the buyer beware because there's a sucker born every minute.

Why someone would impulsively buy something without checking out the market first, is beyond me.

HS1
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:00:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 12:01:30 PM EST by Alien]
Don’t YOU UNDERSTAND? This is a part of our economic system! It’s natural for people to take advantage of the ban. It’s perfectly ok for people to try and fuck you out of more of your money because they are simply finding a market for their product! Communist!

Well, at least that’s what some people on this board would have you believe. I’m in complete agreement that these high prices are stupid though. It’s ridiculous.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:05:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Waldo:
Mr. Obvious thinks someone is selling something that someone wants, but is asking more than someone is willing to pay. Isn't that right, caller?


Are their any other questions for Mr. Obvious today?



Mr. Obvious would be wrong. Why would I want an old AR for the price of two new ones?
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:06:07 PM EST
i sold my SP1 at a gun show saturday for $750

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:06:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Alien:
Don’t YOU UNDERSTAND? This is a part of our economic system! It’s natural for people to take advantage of the ban. It’s perfectly ok for people to try and fuck you out of more of your money because they are simply finding a market for their product! Communist!

Well, at least that’s what some people on this board would have you believe. I’m in complete agreement that these high prices are stupid though. It’s ridiculous.



The market will correct itself in time, period. You or I will not pay one red cent more than we are willing to pay. Correct?

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:08:15 PM EST
Its their product if they want to sell it at that price they can. No one said that you had to buy it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:11:14 PM EST
On the other hand, there are some reasonably priced post bans over there...

Maybe even some that have already had the A2 flash suppressors installed...

Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:17:57 PM EST
I just duped some sucker in NY in to buying my pre-ban Bushy M4 for $1800!!! What a dope!!! I couldn't be happier!!

­

<­BR>



Kidding. I have offered up a BEAUTIFUL, all Bushy pre-ban M4 to anyone in a still-ban state in even trade for a Bushy replacement M4 current production, even swap. Letter from Bushmaster included stating its "pre-94" construction, 1993 I believe, FFL/shipping split 50/50. Nobody has taken me up on it. I'm going to get a new Bushmaster anyway, and figured someone would LOVE this rifle. Not one taker so far.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:18:07 PM EST
and here's a clue for QuietShootr: some states are still affected by an AWB which probihit all guns except pre-94 ones. so there is still value. but over 1000 is a bit extreme for a barebones gun.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:24:04 PM EST
I'm trading my complete Colt Sporter lower that I paid about 700 bucks for 2 years ago for a NIB Ameetec lower w/o a stock.. the trade is even. I think its stupid to try and still sell to people in AWB friendly states at preban prices. If your not in a AWB state your gun isn't worth anything but what a new one costs. Your an asshat if you try and take advantage of people in states like NY etc. Hell i'm happy to be able to help a fella out in NY that still has to contend with the AWB.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:54:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Vermilion:
I'm trading my complete Colt Sporter lower that I paid about 700 bucks for 2 years ago for a NIB Ameetec lower w/o a stock.. the trade is even. I think its stupid to try and still sell to people in AWB friendly states at preban prices. If your not in a AWB state your gun isn't worth anything but what a new one costs. Your an asshat if you try and take advantage of people in states like NY etc. Hell i'm happy to be able to help a fella out in NY that still has to contend with the AWB.



Yeah, and I agree. I sold my Colt preban lower to a NYer for under $400. So eat shit if you don't agree with me....
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:56:47 PM EST
Just because they sell guns doesn't prevent them from being sleaze balls. I know some quality delers, but also some of the worst slime of the earth I have ever met have been gun dealers. Just move on and let the ignaorant bastard find an ignorant buyer.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 12:59:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
Oh here a side note, go and try to buy one, everyone is out of stock, except for the dealers selling noban new CAR15 for 1600.00



No, you can buy lowers easily and there are many parts dealers that can sell you an upper. I did exactly that at the gun show last weekend.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:06:38 PM EST
well, don't forget, you can still gouge all those terrorists wanting machine guns who are prohibited under state law
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:47:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
I saw one at a local gun shop yesterday for 2200 I told the guy he was nuts he said it was still worth that much because that is close to what he paid for it



It is like buying stock and the price going down. No idiot will pay you above market price. Unless you found the one true idiot with more money than brains.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 1:54:50 PM EST
gunbroker.com is calling AR's No-ban ar's
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:48:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
some states are still affected by an AWB which probihit all guns except pre-94 ones



Is this what everyone thinks?
Non-sunsetting states only ban 2+ evil features on post-94 guns. They can still buy all the post-ban configured guns they want.

Come to California if you want to see a real ban.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:50:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2004 9:00:38 PM EST by repub18]
.
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:52:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

Originally Posted By Voldermortist:
some states are still affected by an AWB which probihit all guns except pre-94 ones



Is this what everyone thinks?
Non-sunsetting states only ban 2+ evil features on post-94 guns. They can still buy all the post-ban configured guns they want.

Come to California if you want to see a real ban.




I feel for ya man
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 8:57:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By shaggy:

Originally Posted By coondog:
People can ask whatever they want for anything, but in the end it will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Even a fart in a jar Is there a market for these farts in jars? Man I would be so rich!!! Awsome. Maybe I could even eat different things to get different smells. You and I could become partners. What says you?



WTS - Preban fart in a jar. Excellent condition, still fresh & fragrant. $1600.




colasiple stock? 3 prong flash hider? details...
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:15:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
Offer and acceptance.... I'm glad I sold during peak, but if it the ban didnt die I would have been bitchN to myself

Q why do you torment yourself, stop looking in the EE

Oh here a side note, go and try to buy one, everyone is out of stock, except for the dealers selling noban new CAR15 for 1600.00



I'm selling my Bushmaster CAR in the EE for $800!

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=226414
Link Posted: 9/21/2004 9:58:16 PM EST
And then there's the guy who's telling everyone they need to buy his $800 pre-ban PISTOL lower if they want to build an AR pistol...

He'll probably accomplish his little rope-a-dope scheme, as too many people are confused about the rules for AR pistols...

(hint: ANY STRIPPED LOWER MAY BE MADE INTO A PISTOL, SO LONG AS IT HAS NEVER HAD A STOCK BEFORE YOU MAKE A PISTOL FROM IT)
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:00:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
Well, it's whatever the market will bear, I guess.

So what, pray tell, do you suggest that a dealer do with a "pre-ban" rifle, say a Colt SP-1, that he paid $1100 for a couple of years ago? Should he be forced to sell it at a $300 loss, just because the ban has expired?
.


He should probably arrange to sell it to a dealer in a state like NY where there is still a ban like NY; the weapon will retain more of its value for his bottom line, since it is still one of a limited number of rifles that can be sold in that state. He can then go and buy a couple of new rifles at current prices for his own customers.

I am sure that even in NY prices will drop a bit because the pool of available rifles is drying up, just not very much.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 2:34:34 AM EST
I saw a dealer at last weekend's PA gunshow trying to sell an LE Colt 6721 for $1350 !!

I felt like doing this
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:19:44 AM EST
When I see folks gouging at a show, I'll stop and take a good look, ask to handle it, Hmm and Haww, query the wife .......................

and then offer him $300

Every time I pass by after that, I affirm that the offer is still good and that its the best he's going to get on something old and used.

I might offer to trade him heads up for the bookbag that I always carry with me; emphasizing that the bag is RARE and you cant get 'em like this anymore.
If he says anything smart, I'll tyrade about how the bag is worth whatever the market will bear and if he doesn't like my prices he should just politely decline the sale.

Link Posted: 9/22/2004 3:24:54 AM EST
Yeah, I think there's some sort of denial going on. If you look at places like subguns or sturmgewehr, the prices blipped down for about three days last week and now they are right back where they were before! Either there is some kind of collective denial going on (and exactly how many people have such screwed up priorities or so much money that they want to spend $6K for a Steyr Aug anyways?), or the seven states that still have a ban in effect are having a much greater effect than I had predicted.

Maybe in a few more months supplies will catch up with demand and we will see some changes?

I still can't find any deals worth buying.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:00:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
or the seven states that still have a ban in effect are having a much greater effect than I had predicted



It's only 3
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:14:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By HELLBRINGER:

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
or the seven states that still have a ban in effect are having a much greater effect than I had predicted



It's only 3



Yeah, and what's the deal with that? Whenever the media mentions the state bans, they always say 7, and I didn't think Maryland's actually passed.

What I have: New York, Kali, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Connecticut. That's five.
Link Posted: 9/22/2004 4:21:45 AM EST
It's only 3 states (NY, CT and MA) where a pre-94 lower is of any value as they still ban evil features on any gun built after 9/13/94. In California, for example, ALL lowers are banned from further importation so it doesn't matter what the price is.
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