For the past week, I've been looking at too many gun related ads that say "Paypal preferred" or even worse, "Paypal only."  In some, somebody chimes in and says "Paypal can terminate your account because of their no gun related stuff policy!!!!"  Yes they can, but they are bad at enforcing their lame policy.

But even if you can get by using them, DON'T USE PAYPAL.

My point is simply this:  don't support a business that doesn't support you.  On any transaction you make with them, Paypal is taking money from both parties involved.  Why would you want to pay someone anything for being anti-us?

Think about paypal this way:  You go to a gun store, and want to purchase a $500 firearm from a gun dealer that struck you as honest and truthful.  So you purchase this firearm from him, but only give him $485 + tax for his product, then walk out the door and hand $15 to Sarah Brady.  So there you go, there's $15 you don't have, and there's $15 that the seller doesn't have.  But some corporate, smug, anti-freedom dude has it.

Okay, okay, so that's an extreme way to see it, but you get the point.

Now I'm no fan of condemning one side and offering no solution, so here comes the answer.  Use bidpay.  Their list of restricted transactions follows:

e. Restricted Transactions. Seller is not permitted to use BidPay Services to receive payments for any Transaction involving any of the following: 1. where the total payment amount, including the cost of the good or service, sales tax, shipping, handling, and insurance, exceeds one thousand five hundred U.S. dollars (US $1500.00); 2. where Seller has reason to believe that the Buyer is under 18 years of age; 3. pornography; 4. gambling or wagering; 5. controlled substances, prescription drugs, steroids, or paraphernalia; 6. airline tickets; 7. vacation packages; 8. magazine subscriptions; 9. prepaid phone cards; 10. goods requiring custom construction with a future shipping date exceeding five (5) business days from the close of the Transaction; 11. copyrighted materials where the Seller does not have the proper license or right to sell such materials; 12. any unlawful activity.

There are plenty of companies out there like this one.  Use one.  And don't just join Bidpay.  Leave Paypal, send Paypal an e-mail telling them why you are leaving, and e-mail Bidpay to tell them why you are switching to their service.  Follow these steps and you accomplish three things:

A)  Don't give Paypal any more of your hard earned money.
B)  Paypal gets slapped in the face by hundreds, maybe thousands of previous customers.
C)  Bidpay feels warm inside because of the flow of new customers, and most likely won't change their policy because they will remember the mass of e-mails they received from new customers about why they came.

Do these things, and gun owners get a small victory.  Do it not, and we lose another small battle.

IBTL

Paypal RAWKKKKSSSSSS!!

It's all convenient and shit.

Quoted: IBTL

Why would this get locked?

Quoted: IBTL

Why?  I hate paypal and was kinda wondering about another alternative.  I think I might just start requiring bidpay from now on...

I thought bidpay went out of biz about 2 years ago?

Welcome to 1999.

paypalsucks.com

What about the First Amendment ? Bill Pay won't let you use it to pay for porn. Porno is just as legal as guns are. So if you're going to boycott Pay Pal for being anti, shouldn't you also boycott Bill Pay for being just as anti?Or are some parts of the Bill of Rights more important than others?

I tried to use Gearpay, but hardly anybody uses it.  

Quoted: What about the First Amendment ? Bill Pay won't let you use it to pay for porn. Porno is just as legal as guns are. So if you're going to boycott Pay Pal for being anti, shouldn't you also boycott Bill Pay for being just as anti?Or are some parts of the Bill of Rights more important than others?

Yes.  Yes they are.  It's about priorities.  While I may not like their policy on porn, I downright fucking HATE paypal.  Dislike bidpay.  Fucking HATE paypal.  Pick one.

Quoted: What about the First Amendment ? Bill Pay won't let you use it to pay for porn. Porno is just as legal as guns are. So if you're going to boycott Pay Pal for being anti, shouldn't you also boycott Bill Pay for being just as anti?Or are some parts of the Bill of Rights more important than others?

Who the hell pays for porn on the internet?

Quoted: Now I'm no fan of condemning one side and offering no solution, so here comes the answer.  Use bidpay.

The problem with Bidpay is that if you get stiffed by the seller you have no recourse.  Using Bidpay is like Western Union, your money is INSTANTLY converted to cash and you can't do a chargeback through your CC.  I want the transaction to succeed, but I want control of MY money until I get the goods.  Paypal is the only game in town that I am aware of that you can do a chargeback.  I've done five so far and purchased hundreds of things online.  I WON'T get screwed out of my money using Paypal, they closed my account before over a chargeback, so what, I got my money back.  Paypal sucks, but it works.

Unless you get screwed out of more than $150.  Then they tell you that they're going to do their best to recover the funds and you're SOL until then.  (Which they never usually get back)

Couldn't you call your CC company/bank, explain to them the frauldulent situation and get things fixed?  That's what I did when screwed by a ebay seller/paypal so I get my money back plus the $150 that paypal refunded.

(I eventually paid the $150 back but they wanted it all.  I told them to pound sand and put my balance on the fraudulent seller.  They kept trying to screw me, kept trying to screw me, I couldn't make any headway, until I made them talk to my Ole lady.  She got things fixed and literally left the woman on the phone in tears.  My woman's like a bulldog!

My life depends on paypal. I give money to a lot of anti-gun entities....IRS being the biggest.

<shrug>.... paypal works for me, including gun related transactions.  I think some of the listed restrictions on BidPay are pretty stupid and arbitrary too.  And they are the "little guy" trying to get critical mass, and they already have nonsensical policies?

I won't limit my life to interact *only* with those people, companies, movies, etc that are perfectly aligned with my own values.  The world just doesn't work like that.  I work with liberals every day -- I'm not about to quit my job and look for another job where I only work with conservatives.

Look at it this way -- if me choosing to utilize a company means that I endorse their political policy -- does that mean that that company choosing to do business with *me* means that they endorse *my* political views too?  Of course not -- it just means we've agreed to interact in a limited way to our mutual benefit, regardless of our differences in other areas.

arfcom is big enough , why not start arfpay? Seriously why be reliant on other companys to do what we want , why not start an arfcom one?
I use Paypal also but I would be more than happy to switch to something else since they don't support guns. That is one way tio surely put a hurting on their wallet

I wont order from a big name on arfcom because he uses paypal only. What a pain in the ass.

For what it's worth, Pay Pal has stepped up to the plate for me several times over the past 6 months for items I won off eBay.  Got stiffed by the sellers, contacted them with no reply, filed complaint with Pay Pal and within a day or two they refunded my money.  
   Do I like to use them, no, but with my job and the hours I work, getting a USPS MO isn't always the most feasible  way for me to do business.

But were your auctions all under $150? (or $250, I can't remember.  I think it's the former.)

Quoted: But were your auctions all under $150? (or $250, I can't remember.  I think it's the former.)

I did a chargeback against Paypal for $595.  That the great thing about using YOUR creditcard, if you don't get any help from Paypal you do a chargeback with your CC company.  Paypal WILL suspend you account, so what.  You can open a new account in your wife's, kids name.  At least you are protected from the cheats out there.

But when you do that, they send you to a collection agency, who in turn fucks your credit.

But you're right.  Having a black mark on your credit is better than getting screwed outta $500+bucks

This is Breaking News!!!!!1111111

Quoted: Quoted: IBTL Why would this get locked?

I opened a Gearpay account today based on principle alone.

Quoted: This is Breaking News!!!!!1111111

haha I can always rely on you to come trolling on any thread/comment I make in the GD.  Still haven't gotten over what happened, huh?

I won't respond to anything else you post.  So again, I give you the opportunity to have the last word.

The point of this thread wasn't to talk about the actual Paypal policy, but to find an alternative and stick to it.  I know most people on the forum know about the policy.  At one point way back when, a lot of gun owners stopped using paypal.  I've noticed recently that most require/prefer it.  

Yes, the initial problem was identified in 1999 or whatever year it was.  But the problem has intensified recently.  The first line of the original post was intended to show this.

As for the people who were genuinely interested in the topic at hand -- yes it looks like Gearpay is the top choice if only it got more popular.

JoeMcdonnell - no, I'm not anti-1st amendment in regards to porn being sold, BidPay was just the first alternative I saw.  Ideally, I would prefer that no transaction restrictions would exist.

Snowdiver - Great point.  Paypal has grown to be so big that it can extend services farther than the little guy alternatives.  It's unfortunate, but it's the corporate way, right?  I actually didn't know about all the services and securities Paypal provides, but I can't say I'm surprised.  They aren't the most popular for nothin'.

Squamata - ARFpay would kick asssssss

Quoted: But were your auctions all under $150? (or $250, I can't remember.  I think it's the former.)

Yes, they were all actually under $50-60.

I don't know where the headquarters is for Paypal, but in Omaha, NB, they have a big office building that is just across the street from big gun shop - Cabela's.  

That always struck me strange.

Quoted: But when you do that, they send you to a collection agency, who in turn fucks your credit. But you're right.  Having a black mark on your credit is better than getting screwed outta $500+bucks

WTF are you talking about.  The seller screwed me and Paypal would NOT DO ANYTHING about it.  My credit card got my money back.  How is that going to affect my credit.  That's wy using YOUR CREDIT CARD is a good thing. You have rights.  No one can screw you out of YOUR money.  Am I clear?

{ I've noticed recently that most require/prefer it. }

Thats the way I am. I have had very good luck with PayPal and prefer to pay and be payed that way. I have enough smarts to not let the amount in the account build up over a few hundred bucks in case someone does a chargeback and they lock the account. Plus it keeps the wife from getting too nosey!