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Posted: 9/10/2004 4:52:23 PM EST
Don't Arrest Kerry in Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert Says.
www.gunlaws.com | 10 September 2004 | Alan Korwin

Don't Arrest Kerry In Shotgun Incident, Gun-Law Expert Says


Gun-law expert Alan Korwin is calling for calm, in the national uproar over John Kerry’s possible serious gun violations during a recent photo op in Racine, West Virginia.

The national clamor over the Democratic presidential candidate, who took possession of a Browning semiautomatic shotgun outside his home state, reflects a problem with the laws and should not be used to arrest and prosecute the man, Korwin says. A gun crossing state lines is heavily regulated.

"There are so many charges Kerry might face," according to Korwin, who has written seven books on gun laws, including the unabridged, plain-English federal guide, "Gun Laws of America."

1. Taking ownership of the shotgun gift, if he doesn't already have a valid Massachusetts Firearm Identification Card, could subject him to a 2-1/2 year prison term in his home state. Since he has claimed publicly he owns firearms, chances are he has this critical piece of paper, Korwin says.

2. Bringing the firearm back to Massachusetts, if he received it from a private party, would be a federal felony under the 1968 Gun Control Act. (5 years in prison, $5,000 fine, 18 USC §922)

3. The only exemption that would allow him to bring it into his home state requires that he obtained it in a face-to-face transaction with a federal firearms licensed dealer (FFL). A private gift would not qualify.

4. If Kerry did get it from an FFL, he would have had to personally fill out and sign a "4473 form" required by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, before the gift was given, under penalty of federal felony.

5. If Kerry did not personally undergo a "NICS" instant background check before the transfer from an FFL, he would have put the person conducting the transfer in some legal jeopardy, though the law contains a loophole that would probably save Kerry from additional harm (the dealer, not the recipient, suffers from failure to do the NICS check).

While gun lobbyists are inflamed that Kerry introduced a law that would outlaw this particular type of sporting shotgun, and gun gifts in general, it is a good thing the law has not passed yet, because then it might be too serious a problem to simply ignore.

Korwin says that calls to indict Kerry are premature and "most certainly overkill. John Kerry should receive the same lenient treatment any other citizen deserves when innocently violating these complex and non-intuitive rules." At least give him a chance to explain, Korwin pleads.

Unfortunately, federal authorities from BATFE have been known in the past to be inflexible in their enforcement of even minor technical violations (note that none of these felony violations involve a victim or any sort of harm). With widely circulated evidence, in the form of photographs of Kerry in obvious possession of the firearm, he may find himself subject to the long arms of the law.

And more importantly, Korwin says, "Some of these laws are just foolish, putting honest citizens at enormous and unjustified risk, and are so complicated that even a presidential candidate and his staff cannot figure them out."
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:54:31 PM EST
I wonder what would happen if one of us peasants did the same thing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:56:10 PM EST
he's above the law
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:56:14 PM EST
fuck Him!!!!!


Throw the book at him!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:56:26 PM EST
laws only apply to the proletariat, right, comrade kerry?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:56:57 PM EST
Oh please arrest the man PLEASE
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:58:45 PM EST
Arresting him would just mean 10x more of us would goto jail.
Giving him a nice ticket would be nice.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 4:59:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:04:56 PM EST by repub18]
HEY GUYS CALL 1-800-ATF-GUNS AND REPORT THIS ILLEGAL FIREARMS ACTIVITY!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:00:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Arresting him would just mean 10x more of us would goto jail.
Giving him a nice ticket would be nice.




Why would that happen??
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:01:23 PM EST
the only way for him to see the light is for him to take the fall for this. If he "gets off" with a warning, he'll think that's available for anyone and will use that as leverage to claim how "fair" and "just" our laws are.....

Take him down, take him down hard. Let him fight his way out of it with his money. He'll get off, no question. But only by taking him down and prosecuting him for it will we ever have a chance for him to see the light....
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:02:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:03:00 PM EST by Palo_Duro]
You see? Gun laws are so fucked up, even the lawmakers can't follow them.

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:03:19 PM EST
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:03:39 PM EST
WTF? they ought to throw his sorry ass in jail.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:04:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By poink:
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.




I might just do it, DARE ME???
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:04:18 PM EST
Hang'em high
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:04:46 PM EST
You would think that this incident would enlighten Kerry to the absurdity of the situation...

instead, he challenges GWB on the AWB.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:04:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Arresting him would just mean 10x more of us would goto jail.
Giving him a nice ticket would be nice.




Why would that happen??



Because in normal circumstances, some one of his stature wouldn't have problems legal wise accept for maybe a comment.

Now if he's arrested that will make it 10x stricter on us.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:05:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:06:57 PM EST by repub18]

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Arresting him would just mean 10x more of us would goto jail.
Giving him a nice ticket would be nice.




Why would that happen??



Because in normal circumstances, some one of his stature wouldn't have problems legal wise accept for maybe a comment.

Now if he's arrested that will make it 10x stricter on us.




no it wouldnt, they wouldnt give us any lienency anyhow
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:07:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By poink:
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.




I might just do it, DARE ME???




Double dog.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:07:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:08:08 PM EST by olyarms]

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By olyarms:
Arresting him would just mean 10x more of us would goto jail.
Giving him a nice ticket would be nice.




Why would that happen??



Because in normal circumstances, some one of his stature wouldn't have problems legal wise accept for maybe a comment.

Now if he's arrested that will make it 10x stricter on us.




no it wouldnt, they wouldnt give us any lienency anyhow


Why wouldn't it. Any lienency we do have would be taken.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:07:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By poink:
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.




I might just do it, DARE ME???



Oh, I triple dog dare you...

I'm serious...
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:08:54 PM EST
i plan on writing an editorial and sending it to every god damn newspaper in this state.

why should us peasants go to jail for doing something like this, when a man of john kerry's stature can not only do it, but blatantly do it on camera, in front of millions of people?!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:09:02 PM EST
This thread is worthless without... mughsots???
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:10:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By poink:
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.




I might just do it, DARE ME???




Double dog.



TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:12:08 PM EST
aww I tried to call but it was a voice message I will call back tommorow
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:12:17 PM EST
yeah, do it! i wouldnt mind having a quote from the ATF to put in my article.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:12:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 5:13:39 PM EST by Airwolf]
Fuck the Elitist bastard!

You or I would have been in cuffs and facing FEDERAL charges if caught doing the same thing.

This FUCKTARD should NOT get a "pass" on this one. That's 90% of what's wrong with the nation, the people that make these "foolish and complicated" laws should have their ass trapped by them just as easily as the rest of us "peons". We might see a LOT of this horseshit vanish RFN!

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:14:27 PM EST
Give them a call tommorow 1-800-ATF-GUNS
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:15:34 PM EST
"don't buy for the other guy"
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:22:15 PM EST
Could be interesting...
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:24:49 PM EST
i'll write something up and post it here for comments/suggestions when i'm done.

all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others, huh?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:30:06 PM EST
Photo op...........he didn't keep it.


No proof; I'm just a cynic.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 5:41:33 PM EST
First the bunny suit picture, then the forged documents and now this. What kind of idiots does Kerry have running his campaign? Whoever they are, I'd like to buy them a beer! I'm no lawyer but I think some real laws have been broken here. I for one would like to see him have to defend himself in court. If he is (God forbid) elected and then convicted, they would have to take the nuclear football away from him wouldn't they? Interesting.....very intersting.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:32:31 PM EST
Remember the Politicos that handled that revolver in NYC on a talk show?

Very illegal, nothing happened.


The Left is above the Law when they believe the Cause is Just.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:43:56 PM EST
tagged to show my dad, a MAJOR Kerry supporter.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:48:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Remember the Politicos that handled that revolver in NYC on a talk show?

Very illegal, nothing happened.


The Left is above the Law when they believe the Cause is Just.



Oh, you mean like Al Gore with a revolver on the Regis show (which is shot in NYC)?

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:57:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Hydguy:

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By poink:
yeah, i wonder what the ATF would say if you called them and told them about some guy who didnt fill out 4473, didn't have a background check, was potentially the recipient of a straw purchase (who knows, that shotgun might be illegal to posses in the liberal hell hole of MA), and planned on crossing state lines with it?

anyone want to try and find out? when they ask for the name and you tell them 'John Kerry', let us know what their reaction is.




I might just do it, DARE ME???




Double dog.



TRIPLE DOG DARE YOU.

You don't have a hair on your ass if you don't. And let us hear what they say too.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:57:28 PM EST
Call the ATF, make the ketchup lady pay for his legal fees, then put him in jail with bubba.

I bet he would become pro gun and anti gay union at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 6:57:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Remember the Politicos that handled that revolver in NYC on a talk show?

Very illegal, nothing happened.

The Left is above the Law when they believe the Cause is Just.


How true. When we had the Great Western Gun in Pomona Calif(20 miles east of L.A.), some reporters from the L.A. Times made illegal purchases of gun in the parking lot for a story the trading of illegal guns, even though they turned the guns over to the locad PD, but there were no exception for this type of violation in CA, but he reporters were not prosecuted. There are 2 type of laws in Calif, one for the elitists types and one for the little people.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:09:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 7:22:35 PM EST by GoGop]
How about e-mailing a link to this thread to the BATFE?
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:11:23 PM EST
John Kerry should receive the same lenient treatment any other citizen deserves when innocently violating these complex and non-intuitive rules."

Hmmm.....why does this smell like so much bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:13:13 PM EST
I tried calling but they are not open , only taking messages right now
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:28:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
I tried calling but they are not open , only taking messages right now



PLEASE....KEEP CALLING!!!!!! Please will someone do this before he has a chance to cover his ass somehow. PLEASE!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:38:09 PM EST

I'm going to try and call tomorrow, even though I think they're closed for the weekend. I'll keep trying until I get through, because I want answers.

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:38:39 PM EST
ATF "Contact us" link

www.atf.gov/contact/index.htm
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:41:12 PM EST
I just sent them an e-mail with this link and told them how disgusted I am as a law abiding gun owner
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:51:48 PM EST
Am I missing something here?
You can buy a long rifle or a shotgun from out of state and bring it back with you as long as it's legal in the state you buy it from and the state where you live.

Flame away if I am wrong....

Link Posted: 9/10/2004 8:19:58 PM EST
Korwin says that calls to indict Kerry are premature and "most certainly overkill. John Kerry should receive the same lenient treatment any other citizen deserves when innocently violating these complex and non-intuitive rules." At least give him a chance to explain, Korwin pleads.

"lenient treatment"??????? If that was any common pesant you'd be jailed without trial your dog would be shot and your house would be burned.

Unfortunately, federal authorities from BATFE have been known in the past to be inflexible in their enforcement of even minor technical violations (note that none of these felony violations involve a victim or any sort of harm). With widely circulated evidence, in the form of photographs of Kerry in obvious possession of the firearm, he may find himself subject to the long arms of the law.

And more importantly, Korwin says, "Some of these laws are just foolish, putting honest citizens at enormous and unjustified risk, and are so complicated that even a presidential candidate and his staff cannot figure them out."

This so-called "gun expert" is trying to make a statement to those who dont give a flying shit in the first place about how retarted the laws are. Kerry should be aggressively prosecuted just like we common folk would be, its the right thing to do "for the children"
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:38:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Am I missing something here?
You can buy a long rifle or a shotgun from out of state and bring it back with you as long as it's legal in the state you buy it from and the state where you live.

Flame away if I am wrong....




In most states it's only legal to purchase a long gun in a state that directly borders your own.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:42:23 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 12:52:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sparky315:


In most states it's only legal to purchase a long gun in a state that directly borders your own.



That's the way it is here.
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