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Posted: 8/29/2005 9:00:33 PM EDT
California Marijuana Seizures Up 20 Percent

ASSOCIATED PRESS

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- Agents have seized more than $2.6 billion worth of marijuana plants this year, already surpassing last year's season total by 20 percent, authorities said.

The state Department of Justice's annual Campaign Against Marijuana Planting, or CAMP, is still a month away from wrapping up operations after the season peak at the end of September.

The raids, many in remote, forested terrain, pit agents against often heavily armed guards protecting their marijuana plots.

About three weeks ago, a grower was shot dead and a state Fish and Game warden was wounded during a raid on a 22,000-plant pot farm in the hills above Los Gatos. It was the fourth death in a marijuana raid shootout with authorities in the past three years and the first time a law enforcement officer has been shot in CAMP's 22-year history.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:07:34 PM EDT
Marijuana... the almost drug.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:
Marijuana... the almost drug.





On a serious note, people who push to keep marijuana banned fucking piss me off to no end. Such stupidity is just unbeleivable.
Link Posted: 8/29/2005 9:15:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2005 9:19:05 PM EDT by unkempt1]
all that wasted money and effort and Meth continues to be manufactured.

Pretty damn sad.

Let them have their pot, Meth is a much bigger and badder issue IMHO


ETA: note to self. Keep out of drug threads


Link Posted: 8/29/2005 10:38:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:
all that wasted money and effort and Meth continues to be manufactured.

Pretty damn sad.

Let them have their pot, Meth is a much bigger and badder issue IMHO


ETA: note to self. Keep out of drug threads






word,
I think the change would do some actual good. decrease importation and related problems, empty out the prisons for all the meth heads and gang bangers.

I speculate there would be less DUI and related deaths due to alcohol.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 4:26:02 AM EDT
Think about it,

More than two and a half BILLION bucks worth of the weed. Guess how many cops that would keep employed? And it's much easier to find than those darn meth labs. There's a large industry of law enforcement personel that make a living off pot. It always amazes me that it's still illegal in the year 2005! Why our last two presidents have smoked it! But ya can't tax it, and that's the problem, I guess. Much harder to make bathtub gin, than toss some seeds in the backyard.

Can you imagine the BATF&P?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 6:41:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By luckypunk:

word,
I think the change would do some actual good. decrease importation and related problems, empty out the prisons for all the meth heads and gang bangers.

I speculate there would be less DUI and related deaths due to alcohol.




I doubt DUI would drop, your still under the influance of weed, which is only a little less impairing than alcohol. Taxing would be good, like cigarettes, you wouldn't get as much cause it is much easier to grown you own, but it would still net them plenty of money.

Meth is disgusting, that realy needs to have a stop put to it. Death penalty for Meth manfuctuars? I say so.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:12:41 AM EDT
Ok this is gonna sound stupid & heartless. Make it all legal. They'll kill themselves by overdosing or what ever and we'll be rid of the problem.

OK flame away
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:
Let them have their pot, Meth is a much bigger and badder issue IMHO



If we do that, then the slippery slope prevails.

Once we legalize pot on the grounds that other things are more dangerous, what's next?

The only legalization that I support is a complete legalization of ALL drugs/narcotics, along with a clause that:

A> Insurance companies can refuse payment for drug-related treatment
B> Hospitals can refuse treatment for drug-related maladies (i.e. overdoses)
C> A federal conceal-carry law is enacted and enforced, and we're able to carry in all 50 states, and defend ourselves from drug-crazed idiots.

Only when we start letting the idiots OD and off themselves, and refuse to treat them.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:30:32 AM EDT
No, it means the LEOs are seizing more plants.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:35:16 AM EDT
i wish we'd at least look into the commercial uses of hemp...an unbelievable untapped resource!
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 7:37:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kythri:

Originally Posted By unkempt1:
Let them have their pot, Meth is a much bigger and badder issue IMHO



If we do that, then the slippery slope prevails.

Once we legalize pot on the grounds that other things are more dangerous, what's next?

The only legalization that I support is a complete legalization of ALL drugs/narcotics, along with a clause that:

A> Insurance companies can refuse payment for drug-related treatment
B> Hospitals can refuse treatment for drug-related maladies (i.e. overdoses)
C> A federal conceal-carry law is enacted and enforced, and we're able to carry in all 50 states, and defend ourselves from drug-crazed idiots.

Only when we start letting the idiots OD and off themselves, and refuse to treat them.



+1

I'd support that
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:29:16 AM EDT
No, it means that prohibition has created enough demand that the Mexican cartels are setting up more growing operations in this country/state.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:30:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
No, it means that prohibition has created enough demand that the Mexican cartels are setting up more growing operations in this country/state.



end user potheads create the demand, not prohibition
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 9:40:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
No, it means that prohibition has created enough demand that the Mexican cartels are setting up more growing operations in this country/state.



end user potheads create the demand, not prohibition



I'm not a drug user but it always makes me laugh when a nation of alcoholics are fearful of marijuana.

alcohol is nothing more than a neurotoxin. It's used as a industrial solvent and antiseptic. there's really not that much difference between drinking alcolhol and paint thinner. except that our bodies can combust alcohol and that keeps you from dying of alcohol poisoning.

why can't people see that drinking beer = drug abuse? it's as plain as day but they just wont accept it.

a cokehead is a drug addict.
a heroin user is a drug addict.
a case a day beer drinker is a ??? what?? fun guy??? party animal??

there is not one single drop of alcohol in your body naturally. it's toxic to practically everything, which is why the doctors use it to sterilize stuff.

but since some drug pushers (budweiser, etc) put commercials with bikini girls on TV, then it's OK. who pay the bill for the commercials? you do.

meanwhile, one person in eight is an alcoholic. biggest human tragedy in history. alcoholism is NOT a joke. it's fucking pure misery. some of the asshole types will make a joke out of this but it's still tragic.

go ahead and drink all you like, i won't try to stop you but don't put yourself in a higher category than a cokehead or any other drug user.

NO, i'm not an alcoholic, thank God.

remember, BEER IS OK BUT POT IS BAD. LOL
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:13:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:
Let them have their pot, Meth is a much bigger and badder issue IMHO




I am always surprised to see such hypocracy by gun owners. "My drug is okay, but yours is bad" sounds a lot like "My gun is okay but your gun is bad" to me.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:16:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2005 11:27:32 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Spyda:
Think about it,

More than two and a half BILLION bucks worth of the weed. Guess how many cops that would keep employed? And it's much easier to find than those darn meth labs. There's a large industry of law enforcement personel that make a living off pot. It always amazes me that it's still illegal in the year 2005!



The article refers to California alone, where simple possession has been decriminalized for everyone and made legal for those with a doctors recommendation. Pay $400.00 for a doctors recommendation to treat your headaches/anxiety/depression and you can possess up to 3 pounds for "medicinal" use.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:18:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
No, it means that prohibition has created enough demand...




Many argue that an item being legal or illegal neither increases or decreases demand. A certain percent of people will use drugs reguardless of what the laws are.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:22:14 AM EDT
I say take every dime spent on this and put it to resolving the meth issue.

How can these guys even feel good about spending all this time and money for weed when meth is causing such a larger problem?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:26:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:
why can't people see that drinking beer = drug abuse?



Of course it is.

Caffiene, Nicotiene, Tobbacco are all drugs.

Caffiene is legal.

Tobbacco and RX meds are illegal under certain circumstances, and heavily regulated.

Alcohol & Marijuana are decriminalized.

Meth, Heroin, cocaine, are "illegal" (although with a doctors prescritio you can get RX versions of most of them)

Anyone that uses any drug, but then says any other should be illegal is a hypocrite.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:31:27 AM EDT
i'll never forget this townhall meeting i saw on nightline years ago...they had this limp dick yuppie liberal and a black female drug counsellor from the inner city on to talk about legalizing drugs. the lib started talking about all the bullshit arguments for legalizing drugs and that black woman went ballistic and said "are you outta yo muthafucking white honky ass mind??? do you know what legalizing drugs would do to the black community??? it's bad enough now with drugs being illegal, what do you think it would be like if it was legal and you could buy it down at your local 7-11??? you need to get out of your ivory tower and come see what drug abuse is like in the real world. and it all starts with 'harmless' drugs like marijuana."

you shoulda seen that stupid asshole flapping his lips like a fish out of water. he didn't know whether to shit or go blind.

frankly, what she said was good enough for me. drugs are bad. just cuz "everybody does it" don't make it right. yeesh, like talking to a fucking 10yr old kid...
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:34:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I say take every dime spent on this and put it to resolving the meth issue.

How can these guys even feel good about spending all this time and money for weed when meth is causing such a larger problem?



In my experiance poly drug use is the norm. Target meth, you will arrest a bunch of beer drinking pot smoking, Rx drug abusing tweekers. Target marijuana, you will arrest the same guys again. Target DUI, same guys.

There may be a small number of pot heads head enjoy smoking in their own home and never get behind the wheel after smoking. Those guys are not target by police as their druguse is done in a responsible manner.

But your average pothead prefers to smoke in public with his freinds in the bar parking ot, concert, or city park, usually before having a few beers then driving home. If someone breaks out some coke or meth, they will do that too.

Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:48:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By Lon_Moer:
No, it means that prohibition has created enough demand that the Mexican cartels are setting up more growing operations in this country/state.



end user potheads create the demand, not prohibition



You're right about that. The desire of people to use something creates demand, not the prohibition itself. The prohibition creates dangerous unregulated black markets that end up costing more money and harm than if it were legal.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:50:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I say take every dime spent on this and put it to resolving the meth issue.

How can these guys even feel good about spending all this time and money for weed when meth is causing such a larger problem?



In my experiance poly drug use is the norm. Target meth, you will arrest a bunch of beer drinking pot smoking, Rx drug abusing tweekers. Target marijuana, you will arrest the same guys again. Target DUI, same guys.

There may be a small number of pot heads head enjoy smoking in their own home and never get behind the wheel after smoking. Those guys are not target by police as their druguse is done in a responsible manner.

But your average pothead prefers to smoke in public with his freinds in the bar parking ot, concert, or city park, usually before having a few beers then driving home. If someone breaks out some coke or meth, they will do that too.




That hasn't been my experience at all, but then I don't live in the ghetto either.

It's the old "Gateway drug" arguement, which is just flat wrong.

First of all prohibition creates the gateway effect, by lumping pot in with more dangerous drugs you make it more likely for a pot smoker to try something else, because the hype about pot is false in his experience. But more importantly way too many people have smoked pot for the gateway effect to mean anything.

It's like saying birth is a gateway to serial killing.

Beer is a gateway drug, almost everyone who smokes dope drank beer too.

It just doesn't wash.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:53:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
But your average pothead... If someone breaks out some coke or meth, they will do that too.


That's almost as funny as the time the sarge claimed that studies have shown that most child molesters are cat owners.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 11:55:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
I say take every dime spent on this and put it to resolving the meth issue.

How can these guys even feel good about spending all this time and money for weed when meth is causing such a larger problem?



In my experiance poly drug use is the norm. Target meth, you will arrest a bunch of beer drinking pot smoking, Rx drug abusing tweekers. Target marijuana, you will arrest the same guys again. Target DUI, same guys.

There may be a small number of pot heads head enjoy smoking in their own home and never get behind the wheel after smoking. Those guys are not target by police as their druguse is done in a responsible manner.

But your average pothead prefers to smoke in public with his freinds in the bar parking ot, concert, or city park, usually before having a few beers then driving home. If someone breaks out some coke or meth, they will do that too.




So target and press the abuse and activity of the high and get off the possession/sale aspects. Let them be the piles of crap they naturally are in the privacy of their home. Arrest them when they act out.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 1:26:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i'll never forget this townhall meeting i saw on nightline years ago...they had this limp dick yuppie liberal and a black female drug counsellor from the inner city on to talk about legalizing drugs. the lib started talking about all the bullshit arguments for legalizing drugs and that black woman went ballistic and said "are you outta yo muthafucking white honky ass mind??? do you know what legalizing drugs would do to the black community??? it's bad enough now with drugs being illegal, what do you think it would be like if it was legal and you could buy it down at your local 7-11??? you need to get out of your ivory tower and come see what drug abuse is like in the real world. and it all starts with 'harmless' drugs like marijuana."

you shoulda seen that stupid asshole flapping his lips like a fish out of water. he didn't know whether to shit or go blind.

frankly, what she said was good enough for me. drugs are bad. just cuz "everybody does it" don't make it right. yeesh, like talking to a fucking 10yr old kid...



I would not legalize any drug except pot.

People smoke tons of that stuff with about the same or less bad effect as alcohol.

I don't know about the other drugs. I think people would not be able to handle free access to highly addictive and harmful drugs like coke, meth or heroin.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 2:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Anyone that uses any drug, but then says any other should be illegal is a hypocrite.



Prescription drugs included?
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 3:04:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:

I don't know about the other drugs. I think people would not be able to handle free access to highly addictive and harmful drugs like coke, meth or heroin.



And what's bad about that?

Its high fucking time we let people rise and fall on their own.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 5:11:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By red65:

I don't know about the other drugs. I think people would not be able to handle free access to highly addictive and harmful drugs like coke, meth or heroin.



And what's bad about that?

Its high fucking time we let people rise and fall on their own.



And they do without legalizing coke, meth, or heroin. No need to legalize it.

One of the arguements for legalization is anybody can get those three anywhere, as if what the fuck, legalize it they're going to get it anyway.

Well if anybody anytime anywhere can get it anyway, there's no need to legalize it. Let the dumbfucks blow all their $ on it, OD then die.
Link Posted: 8/30/2005 8:30:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
It's the old "Gateway drug" arguement, which is just flat wrong.




Marijuana is a gateway drug in the same manner as alcohol is. Decreased inhibitions while under the influence.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:41:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By go3:

Originally Posted By red65:

I don't know about the other drugs. I think people would not be able to handle free access to highly addictive and harmful drugs like coke, meth or heroin.



And what's bad about that?

Its high fucking time we let people rise and fall on their own.



And they do without legalizing coke, meth, or heroin. No need to legalize it.

One of the arguements for legalization is anybody can get those three anywhere, as if what the fuck, legalize it they're going to get it anyway.

Well if anybody anytime anywhere can get it anyway, there's no need to legalize it. Let the dumbfucks blow all their $ on it, OD then die.




Nevermind..................................
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:11:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:


One of the arguements for legalization is anybody can get those three anywhere, as if what the fuck, legalize it they're going to get it anyway.

Well if anybody anytime anywhere can get it anyway, there's no need to legalize it. Let the dumbfucks blow all their $ on it, OD then die.




Nevermind..................................





If you never heard that arguement then you're uninformed. Here's an example of it

http://www.vailvalleyinstitute.org/drugs.html

"We were discussing the modification of drug laws. I told them that right now, their children were within five phone calls of being able to get any illegal drug they wanted. And that if they didn’t believe me, they should go ask their kids. I got letters back, expressing their shock that in their suburb, with all the efforts of the Drug War, their children had such easy access to drugs."

So I paraphrase the arguement that the pro druggies make and get a "nevermind", LOL.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:43:25 AM EDT by unkempt1]

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:


One of the arguements for legalization is anybody can get those three anywhere, as if what the fuck, legalize it they're going to get it anyway.

Well if anybody anytime anywhere can get it anyway, there's no need to legalize it. Let the dumbfucks blow all their $ on it, OD then die.




Nevermind..................................





If you never heard that arguement then you're uninformed. Here's an example of it

http://www.vailvalleyinstitute.org/drugs.html

"We were discussing the modification of drug laws. I told them that right now, their children were within five phone calls of being able to get any illegal drug they wanted. And that if they didn’t believe me, they should go ask their kids. I got letters back, expressing their shock that in their suburb, with all the efforts of the Drug War, their children had such easy access to drugs."

So I paraphrase the arguement that the pro druggies make and get a "nevermind", LOL.



Pro druggies huh? that's quite presumptuous of you.
I'd call it more like pro personal responsibility .

I just don't care if they want to kill themselves, I sure as hell shouldn't have to pay to "save" them from their choice if poison. $19 billion a year plus I might add. for them to have unlimited availability of any drug they want. Good job!


And no, you got a never mind because there is no changing your opinion or the lunacy of prohibition, which you somehow see as a good thing from what I'm reading from you.

again, why should I bother to try. ............ answer: I shouldn't.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:55:55 AM EDT
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