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Posted: 10/30/2006 6:14:23 AM EST
I posted about this in the FL forum because it’s applicable to those in NEFL that are members of this range but I’m posting the in GD too cause I’d like to get some other shooters’ generic opinions on what this guy wrote in our local range publication.

The gist of his writing is that defensive/practical shooting has no place at our range and needs to be discontinued.

I slightly see his point but these matches have been going on every weekend for years and I don’t think there’s been any problems to date. I can understand that he doesn’t want the range shut down and he thinks that IPSC style shooting will be the range’s downfall but I think shooters that participate in those events aren’t wild shots as this guy makes them out to be. Plus the typical reason ranges get shut down is noise.

Here’s an aerial view of the range w/ some measurements to things around the range.



His letter.


Letter to the Editor from Marion Estes

TO EVERY MEMBER OF GATEWAY RIFLE AND PISTOL CLUB,
DESIGNED AS A SAFE PLACE TO SHOOT:

GRPC:_ Target or Tactical Range?

Some “run and gun” sports emphasize “Tactical” shooting. That is, scenarios
designed to stress the shooters’ judgement and ability to place _rapid-fire shots on
multiple designated targets. The shooter moves as fast as possible, since the scoring
is time based. Incentive to literally “run and gun”.

Is this activity suited to all Gun Clubs and Ranges?

NOT AT ALL:_ The “tactical” shooters absolutely require a much wider angle target field than even five station trap shooting. GRPC is a target range, based on
stationary targets with a stationary shooter “face on” to the target._ This is so the
cone of fire is consistent with the range’s layout. The INTENDED line of fire keeps
“out” bullets from impacting_ Herlong Air Field’s main structures. This layout is
not arbitrary. It was designed in 1965 for safety considerations. The housing crush
we are experiencing greatly reinforces the need for shooting within the design.
GRPC began as corn field, with structures barely visible on the horizon. Things
change. One bullet “out”, and “in” a neighborhood will make us vanish. Period. No
questions. No rebuttal. No options.

GRPC has two kinds of berms/constructions:_ The berms and concrete block
walls which divide shooting lanes and ranges are Safety Berms, and run South-
North. The berms which are bullet stoppers are those which run East-West. There
should be no confusing the two or their reasons for being where they are, or what
they do.

Tactical Ranges do exist, and are designed for that purpose. They have specific
features which permit “tactical” adventures. They are also mostly located out in the
middle of East Nowhere, and far, far away from residential/commercial buildings.

SO WHAT? WHY IS THIS OF INTEREST TO ME? I DO NOT SHOOT
THAT GAME:

Politics, is what. The club’s president position and four Board of Directors
positions are up for retention or replacement at the November Club meeting. You
determine who will fill those positions by voting. Vote very carefully, know who
is running and what their interests are. Frankly, the Old School (current president
and most Board members) is dedicated to preserving the range and safety
. The New School seems to view GRPC as a Tactical Shooting Preserve, with other activities sort of attached. The 2000+_ non-tactical shooters can lose the entire range based
on one “ill-placed” shot by one of the sixty or so dedicated “runner and gunner”
shooters. Do not let that happen. Vote. Vote with an eye to the future.


Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:17:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2006 6:21:42 AM EST by Cypher214]
The guy is just a moron who doesn't have a clue in hell about IDPA/USPSA matches and how they are conducted.

I'd like to see him cite some specific instances of ranges being shut down due to a mishap that occured during an IDPA/USPSA match.

I'd also like to see his figures regarding injuries sustained by participants in a match, versus injuries sustained during "normal" range activities.

Most USPSA shooters know what the hell they are doing and if they don't, the RO fixes the problem in a hurry.

The author sounds like a dipshit "Fudd" who thinks guns are only intended for ducks and deer.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:17:58 AM EST
Wow.

Are his numbers correct? 60 practical shooters vs. 2000 "target shooters"?

Sounds like someone with an axe to grind.

Did something happen to the letter writer to make him "hate" practical?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:26:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By dedfella:
Wow.

Are his numbers correct? 60 practical shooters vs. 2000 "target shooters"?

Sounds like someone with an axe to grind.

Did something happen to the letter writer to make him "hate" practical?


Well, the range does have over 2000 members but I'm not sure how many people shoot the IPSC/USPSA each time, it varies. Also they don't have to be members (of the range) to shoot those matches. They just have to pay the dues for each match.


OH, The letter writer runs the High Power rifle matches if that means anything.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:29:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By dedfella:
Wow.

Are his numbers correct? 60 practical shooters vs. 2000 "target shooters"?

Sounds like someone with an axe to grind.

Did something happen to the letter writer to make him "hate" practical?


Well, the range does have over 2000 members but I'm not sure how many people shoot the IPSC/USPSA each time, it varies. Also they don't have to be members (of the range) to shoot those matches. They just have to pay the dues for each match.


OH, The letter writer runs the High Power rifle matches if that means anything.


You sure wouldn't think it by reading the letter. I wonder if he has ever witnessed a USPSA match...
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:32:25 AM EST
He has a valid point.

The range was built for target only. The chances of a "high" shot are increased there-by making the range a hazard.

1) fix the range.

2) Stop any "run-n-Gun shooting...(lol I love that idiotic term)

3) Wait for some1 to get hit or nearly hit and allow them the chance to bring up a lawsuit to close the range.

thats your choices.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:32:28 AM EST
Also, here's the list of what matches we have.



it's not like we only have 1 defensive match, we have a lot.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:42:04 AM EST
It doesnt matter how many matches you have...the range isnt safe for it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:43:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
He has a valid point.

The range was built for target only. The chances of a "high" shot are increased there-by making the range a hazard.

1) fix the range.

2) Stop any "run-n-Gun shooting...(lol I love that idiotic term)

3) Wait for some1 to get hit or nearly hit and allow them the chance to bring up a lawsuit to close the range.

thats your choices.


Yeah, but it wouldn't just be the "run-n-gun" that would have to be ended IMO, you'd have to stop ALL competition and turn the range into one where ALL shots must be 2-3 seconds apart.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:50:06 AM EST
I'd put together a fund raiser to fix the range.

I bet in 1 year you would enough cash to do it.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:54:19 AM EST
Someone offended his little FUD sensibilities with all that rapid trigger pulling. Poor guy needs to spend a few hours in a drum circle getting his chi re-aligned.


"Kumbaya my lord... Kumbaya"



More Seriously: That picture doesn't really have enough info in it for me to say either way. I can see what looks like some possible problem areas but the course would need to be set up before those possibilities become either likely or unlikely.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 6:54:59 AM EST
Looks to me as if the writer thinks his shooting discipline is more important than anyone else's.

I seeand hear the same sort of thing from "hunetrs" who think nobody else should own a firearm that isn't traditionally appropriate for quail hunting.

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:11:27 AM EST
I do not have a dog in this fight but there is an issue that needs to be addressed. The NRA has a range certification team.
They club would be best served by contacting them and get real aswers. Here is their web site

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/technicalteam.asp

Providing on-site assistance to shooting range facilities
The NRA Range Technical Team is a nationwide network of volunteers trained in the field of shooting range development, design, and operations. The Range Technical Team was developed to provide an extension of NRA Headquarters to range owners and operators at the local level. The goal of the Range Technical Team is to provide every shooting community with the necessary assistance and support to help keep our nation's ranges operating well into the 21st century.

Services provided by Range Technical Team Advisors (RTTAs) include:


range planning assistance
range use and procedural evaluations
range safety and design evaluations
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 7:14:15 AM EST
Here's what the ranges look like from ground level if anyone's interested. There's 5 different stages.









Link Posted: 10/30/2006 9:12:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By ARSTAF:


Thanks for the info.

I know the range is NRA affiliated but not sure if what you mentioned has ever been done.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 10:26:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
It doesnt matter how many matches you have...the range isnt safe for it.


And you know this how.....?

I used to shoot IDPA at the Renton Gun Club in Renton, WA. The suburbs grew around the range. We shot IPSC at the backstop while off to the right we could see house lights through the woods about 100 yards away. Never a problem that I know of and the last time I looked at the RGC schedule they still had IPSC matches.

On the other hand, I used to conduct Action Pistol shooting matches at the Aarb, AL range. This range is in an old rock quarry with downrange against a cliff about 100-150 feet high about 50 feet away. I've had one person launch one OVER the cliff when his whatever gun got of control. One round was all it took to call a "cease fire" and DQ him.

It's all a matter of how the course is set up and how the matches are run. My experience with IPSC is that they are VERY safe.

Merlin
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