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Posted: 1/20/2013 3:33:41 PM EDT
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:35:29 PM EDT
In some cases, yes. In most, no.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:36:22 PM EDT
No one has the right to infringe on a fundamental right. That said it happens everyday and rights are only as good as your ability to defend them.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:36:43 PM EDT
Yes....if they can properly amend the constitution....we are not a democracy.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:37:09 PM EDT
No, unless the item in question poses by itself a clear and present danger to the community. Stockpiling plutonium in your apartment would be one absurd but demonstrative example.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:38:01 PM EDT
Not likely.

A democratic vote is 51% of the population making a bad choice.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:39:53 PM EDT
No.

That's what separates us from the Communists you were listening to.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:41:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
No, unless the item in question poses by itself a clear and present danger to the community. Stockpiling plutonium in your apartment would be one absurd but demonstrative example.

Pretty much this. It also is the answer to the stupid anti talking point about nuclear weapons. Usage laws of course can be put into place when the use of said item would infringe upon the immediate area. It is more than ok to own a 20,000 watt stereo, but using it to it's full potential in the neighborhood is of course regulate-able if the noise is leaving the property.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:41:25 PM EDT
It's not the object, it's the individual. When will these shitbirds grasp that?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:43:00 PM EDT
A community can't tell you not to have Playboy delivered to your house (I dunno...is there such thing as a Playboy magazine anymore?).

A community can't tell you you can't live there because of the color of you or your spouses skin, your religion, etc.

A community can't tell you what kinds of foods you can have in your house.

A community can't tell you how to vote.

A community can't tell you you can't own a firearm.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:44:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.


"Should we remove all penises to prevent rape?"

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:44:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Soylent:
A community can't tell you not to have Playboy delivered to your house (I dunno...is there such thing as a Playboy magazine anymore?).

A community can't tell you you can't live there because of the color of you or your spouses skin, your religion, etc.

A community can't tell you what kinds of foods you can have in your house.

A community can't tell you how to vote.

A community can't tell you you can't own a firearm.


Stick around, you ain't seen nuthin yet.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:44:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 3:44:57 PM EDT by ArmaNotSoLite]
Originally Posted By cavedog:
It's not the object, it's the individual. When will these shitbirds grasp that?


In some times, the object was an individual. That's why I said "Yes, sometimes."

If the community wasn't allowed to dictate what you can own, slavery would still exist. Hell, it still does exist.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:44:28 PM EDT
Sure.....as long as the opposing side can form it's own community and banish those who disagree.

Since that ain't happening....no.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:45:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BustinCaps:
No, unless the item in question poses by itself a clear and present danger to the community. Stockpiling plutonium in your apartment would be one absurd but demonstrative example.


But if they don't know about it and I keep it tightly encased in several layers of Reynold's wrap I should be okay, right?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:45:50 PM EDT
No, unless the mere possesion of said item is harmful to others. Such as radioactive materials or chemicals.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:46:35 PM EDT
If this community has elected to remove my means of self defense then thy also agreed to give me my own personal security and or are willing to pay for any damages incurred from being defenseless.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:47:37 PM EDT
If I wanted a HOA I would have moved into a neighborhood with a HOA.
I never asked the HOA to come to me to trample on my rights.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:48:01 PM EDT
It depends wholly on what "things" we're talking about.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:48:29 PM EDT
If that's what they want in said community then it also should not be allowed to have alcohol in the home and any type of functional transportation, they might do something stupid.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:50:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixnine:
If this community has elected to remove my means of self defense then thy also agreed to give me my own personal security and or are willing to pay for any damages incurred from being defenseless.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Funerals run ~ $10,000.00. I'm sure there are plenty of nice soccer-moms that would much rather the community chip in for your funeral than allow you to have those icky evils guns.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:50:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
Originally Posted By Soylent:
A community can't tell you not to have Playboy delivered to your house (I dunno...is there such thing as a Playboy magazine anymore?).

A community can't tell you you can't live there because of the color of you or your spouses skin, your religion, etc.

A community can't tell you what kinds of foods you can have in your house.

A community can't tell you how to vote.

A community can't tell you you can't own a firearm.


Stick around, you ain't seen nuthin yet.


Yeah, the potential for irony did not escape me while posting that.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:55:34 PM EDT
i'm so sick of repeating this......

If you do not like the agenda/morals/mindset of your current environment the best thing you can do is MOVE TO A PLACE THAT BETTER MEETS YOUR IDEALS. bump all that "i can't just pack up and move bullshit" and do it. get your ass to a red state that doesn't believe in taking away your weapons, and better meets your mindset. damnit people.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:56:19 PM EDT
Whether they "allow" it or not is a moot point. I'm getting to the point where I don't care what is "allowed". If I think I need something for my own survival/ enjoyment/ defense/ whatever - I'll get it. I won't tell anybody about it - but I'll get it.

Charlie
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 3:59:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.


"Should we remove all penises to prevent rape?"

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


They can have mine when they pry it from my cold dead fing.......
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:00:10 PM EDT
It depends
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:01:01 PM EDT
If your state constitution contains a right to bear arms clause, can a city government pass a law banning firearms in that city?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:01:48 PM EDT
The word communism is derived from community or common.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:05:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vikingmedic128:
i'm so sick of repeating this......

If you do not like the agenda/morals/mindset of your current environment the best thing you can do is MOVE TO A PLACE THAT BETTER MEETS YOUR IDEALS. bump all that "i can't just pack up and move bullshit" and do it. get your ass to a red state that doesn't believe in taking away your weapons, and better meets your mindset. damnit people.


I am working towards that goal. But methinks that no matter what color your state, we are all equally screwed...........
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:07:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sixnine:
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.


"Should we remove all penises to prevent rape?"

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


That is what I brought up to the wife last night. A little less than half the population has cocks, so half the population are potential rapists.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:07:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 4:09:50 PM EDT by SilentType]
Society is a balance of individual liberty with legal restraint.

That balance is established by our Constitution, which gives our government and the courts legitimacy to maintain order. Without it the government becomes dependent upon rule by threat of force and that is the pathway to tyranny.

Those who framed our Constitution based on their life experiences and beliefs preserved the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. This has been the ruling in two Supreme Court cases. The Supreme Court said that weapons in common useage cannot be banned. To subvert it to achieve whatever well intentioned or otherwise goal would be to weaken the Constitution. Weaken the Constitution and you weaken government. Weaken government and you weaken its ability to maintain order. Anarchy or tyranny are the only two possible outcomes at that point.



Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:24:15 PM EDT
Funny how these morons don't think their political enemies will ever be in power again.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:24:40 PM EDT
By their logic 51% of the community can lawfully enslave the other 49% because the majority gets whatever it wants, mob rule.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:31:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PirateNinja:
By their logic 51% of the community can lawfully enslave the other 49% because the majority gets whatever it wants, mob rule.


Very well said, my friend.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:33:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HarryStone:
Funny how these morons don't think their political enemies will ever be in power again.


I've been trying for years to point that out to nutjobs both left and right. The concept doesn't seem to be welcome.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:35:53 PM EDT
In New York, Cali, Conn., New Jersey and MD...yes.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:37:36 PM EDT
Does a community have the right to tell some one what they can own or not own?


A: DRUGS

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:45:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:52:49 PM EDT
No.

On a related note... I called collectivism collectivism and got cursed at for "using an archaic term."



He's seriously one of the biggest douche bags I've ever met. Surprisingly, he was in the military. I have no fucking idea why he joined.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 4:58:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.


Tyranny of the majority is bad. That's why were were given a republic before we fucked it up.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:00:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.
It could easily be argued amongst "Fair" and "Sensible" people that the ones wanting to take the guns are a "detrimental to society". After all our society has done fine and remained free because of the gun for over 200 years.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:09:41 PM EDT
If this is the same "anti-gun" rally I read about on another forum, it sounds like it was comprised of ~90% pro gunners!
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:11:39 PM EDT
Nobody has the right to tell me what I can or cannot own.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:19:03 PM EDT
In a republic, the rights of the minority are supposed to be _protected_ from the whims of the majority!
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:20:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlvinYork:
I went to protest against an anti gun rally today. One of the speakers argued that it is only reasonable that a community should be able to decide that semi automatic firearms be declared illegal and taken away if the community decides that is to be. One of the pro gun group asked what right did the community have to make criminals out of some of it's members on a whim? His response was that they had the right because of the possibility that some one might do something detrimental to society.


What that speaker was describing is pure democracy.

In a pure democracy the majority opinion becomes law and all dissenters criminals.

The founding fathers warned about democracy and installed the "Bill of Rights to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority as well as a single despot.

The speakers attitude is why there are checks and balances built into our "Constitutional Representative republic" and up until the 17th Amendment was added to the Constitution the state legislatures were a key part of the checks to Federal power.

The 17th by the way is when the country started electing Senators by popular vote instead of them being appointed by the state legislatures and effectively nullified any check the states had on the Feds.

When the states lost their check on the Federal government it started us down the path to where we are now to more of a democracy instead of a republic.

I personally believe the 17th has directly contributed to bringing us to our current sad state as a nation.




Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:22:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheJacket:
No.

On a related note... I called collectivism collectivism and got cursed at for "using an archaic term."



He's seriously one of the biggest douche bags I've ever met. Surprisingly, he was in the military. I have no fucking idea why he joined.


collectivism IS pure democracy. Classic tyranny by the majority attitude.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:26:11 PM EDT
The community can suck a giant and unclean dick.

If the property in question is not actively causing harm to others, then the community can mind its own business. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:35:06 PM EDT
No majority rule only applies in non constitutional matters.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:35:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NTTAWWT:
Yes....if they can properly amend the constitution....we are not a democracy.


This. If they don't like any parts amend it. Good luck though. It was designed so it would not be amendable to the whims of whatever suits people at the time.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:37:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vikingmedic128:
i'm so sick of repeating this......

If you do not like the agenda/morals/mindset of your current environment the best thing you can do is MOVE TO A PLACE THAT BETTER MEETS YOUR IDEALS. bump all that "i can't just pack up and move bullshit" and do it. get your ass to a red state that doesn't believe in taking away your weapons, and better meets your mindset. damnit people.


You have that backwards.
Why the fuck should I have to be run off my property to go live somewhere else?
Let these hippy fucks go start a commune somewhere if they can't integrate into this existing civilized society.

These liberals won't stop - do you want to be like the Israelis & be pushed into the sea?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 5:40:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NTTAWWT:
Yes....if they can properly amend the constitution....we are not a democracy.


Fuck that. You can't amend the constitution to remove rights it merely states as being obvious.

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