I am a patriot.  I love this country, always have, always will.  My country, may she always be right, but my country, right or wrong.

But juxtapose our collective calls for revenge/taking this seriously/taking the gloves off you get on this board with the nationwide spasmodic response to a naked pyramid of prisoners.  Will the populace stand behind President Bush if he starts cracking heads?

BTW, and FWIW, my own solution is NOT to go medieval on the enemy.  I would, however, like to see our forces close with and destroy anyone who is a threat or who harbors those who are a threat.

But dead bodies, particularly those not wearing uniforms, don't play well these days.  I wonder if we've lost the will to kill our enemies, what with smart bomb attacks at 2am on empty headquarters buildings.  We have become so surgical in our approach that it seems we not only can't accept "collateral damage, we don't even want to kill the confirmed bad guys.  I think this trend is very dangerous.  

Thoughts?    

we don't have the stomach, and haven't since the first bush fucked up by not proceeding into baghdad and finishing the job. sad.

I was hopeful in previous threads, but I feel that we as a nation have lost the will to do what has become so obviously necessary. That is unless we see a lot more 9/11's. I don't want that, but that's probably the only thing that would shake us up. And then only temporarily.

No, not yet.  Give it a few years and a dozen or so more 9/11's, and we will be good to go.

Not until they attack us here, on foot, in our streets. We're terminally numb. We've had it too good for too long for our own good.

You, me, a few others do.
Remember that todays Army leadership were the guys who survived the Klinton years. I immediately suspect them all.

This country is filled with mostly gutless yellow bastards who can't see beyond their next high. Nihilistic freaks. Keep them warm and fed-add cable TV and public education. Mindless drones who are absolutely wasting their brain power.

Quoted: No, not yet.  Give it a few years and a dozen or so more 9/11's, and we will be good to go.

Yup.

Quoted: I was hopeful in previous threads, but I feel that we as a nation have lost the will to do what has become so obviously necessary. That is unless we see a lot more 9/11's. I don't want that, but that's probably the only thing that would shake us up. And then only temporarily.

I have a bad feeling that it will come to repeat 9/11's to wake people up.

Right now I think most Americans would be content to let these dogs naw their legs off as long as they got to see the final episode of Fuckin' Friends or watch American fuckin' Idol.

Quoted: Not until they attack us here, on foot, in our streets. We're terminally numb. We've had it too good for too long for our own good.

The problem is... this has happened since 9/11 but the media has carefully covered up the facts.  I sincerely believe the beltway snipers were every bit as terrorists as the dog that flew into the WTC.  

Quoted: No, not yet.  Give it a few years and a dozen or so more 9/11's, and we will be good to go.

heh...you know, for a scum sucking pagan..you're right on the money

J/King

I dont think the majority of our fellow countrymen are prepared to accept what needs to be done. Therefore, our troops will suffer the consequences.

Sadly, they will have to butcher more American civilians, probably on a massive scale, for people to cast aside their delusional fantasies about "moderate islam" and the hope of them wanting to coexist peacefully with us.

The vasy majority of people do not understand the nature of the enemy we are facing.  

Here's a tip: Read the history of islam and jihad.  If you want to know where it's going, look at where it's been.

Quoted: Quoted: No, not yet.  Give it a few years and a dozen or so more 9/11's, and we will be good to go. heh...you know, for a scum sucking pagan..you're right on the money J/King

We usually are.

One thing you never find Pagans doing is the whole genocide, religous fervor thing.  It is just not in our make up.

Quoted: After reading several threads here, I think many on this board have the "will" to go on a real killin' spree--as long as it doesn't involve leaving their keyboard.

I've got a wireless keyboard, and the willingness to travel...

Quoted: You, me, a few others do. Remember that todays Army leadership were the guys who survived the Klinton years. I immediately suspect them all. This country is filled with mostly gutless yellow bastards who can't see beyond their next high. Nihilistic freaks. Keep them warm and fed-add cable TV and public education. Mindless drones who are absolutely wasting their brain power.

 The most brilliant thing I've heard all day........one of the reasons I left the Army was that fact that things DIDN'T change after Klinton left office. And I have NO faith in the American public as a whole. Hopefully, it never comes to Hezbollah attacking us in our own country. But America is "comfortably numb". Only the few patriotic Americans, many of the veterans, many in the military, and those who just lucked out and retained some common sense can see where we are headed.

Quoted: No, not yet.  Give it a few years and a dozen or so more 9/11's, and we will be good to go.

This is probably the sad truth about it all.

It may take the al queerda bombing the 'Birkenstock' factory or raiding the doobie fields in Kalifornia to make the liberals mad enough to want to do something.

Of course the hippies would welcome them with open arms but they don't want anything to do with them either...the bead wearing, pot smokin', free love, gay rights, no absolutes American infidels!

BigDozer66

I have the stomach for it. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do. I don't like the idea, I'd rather not, it is unpleasant, but I'll do what has to be done. But I tend to look at war differently than a lot of folks. If we have to do this thing, then do it swiftly, terribly, and utterly and damn the popularity contests. The only way to answer an attack by an enemy, is to make the retribution so devastating and terrible that any further idea of attack is inconceivable. If someone raises their hand to strike you, break that hand in 50 places. If they attack again it won't be with that hand.

Not popular, I'm sure, but my .02 nevertheless.

I believe that it will never get to the point of our SF, or USMC going midevil on that ass.
If it was up to me, It would get there real fast. It would be spelled out real f’in clear so that every 2 bit nation would understand that if you f*ck with the best then you will die like the rabid dog that you are.

I would like to see a young bloody Marine officer telling the story of the battle on FNC showing his bloodstained Kbar, and a cut to Oliver North who states that “That’s how it’s done people”

BUT that will never happen.

Oh well time to wake up and go back to watching reruns of Friends!

Quoted: we don't have the stomach, and haven't since the first bush fucked up by not proceeding into baghdad and finishing the job. sad.

It started even before that. And that was not the goal of the first gulf war. The goal was Iraq out of Kawait, not saddam out of power, though it should have been both.

No this loss of being able to stomach war, and the butal reality of war and the things that must be done to win it area a direct result of the managment, of the war in Vietnam. It continued and eventualy worked it's way into later administrations. The clinton administration being natoriusly know for shitting on our troops and not doing the job till it's done when Americans decided that the sight of an American soldier being dragged through the streets is to much to take.

See it's easier to take when you can't see it happening, but when it's happening and you can see it live, or almost live that has a bigger effect on people.

As a nation we don't have the stomach to be at war to win, because we don't as a nation have the stomach to do what needs to be done.

We will have the stomach if we get hit hard enough.  But some of the liberal loonies won't understand it until the Caliphate over America has been declared and their "Friends" re-runs have been taken off the air and replaced with Islamic chants and prayer.

GunLvr

Quoted: After reading several threads here, I think many on this board have the "will" to go on a real killin' spree--as long as it doesn't involve leaving their keyboard.

yes...but the ones that "will" do the killin, need to know that there are a whole bunch more at the bar eggin them on.

just like the 5 in the vid....by the silence...the rest are eggin em on..........

America doesn't have anything near the stomach required to do what has to be done. I thank God that we didn't have this poor social climate in 1941... We'd have done everything in our power to try to appease the Japanese.

I have lost my faith in humanity many times over, reading the liberal responses to some of the things that are going on of late. We are our own worst enemy right now.

Nobody wants to connect the dots... DUmmies will tell you that there have been "isolated incidents" with Islam but there's no problem that we can't negotiate away.

Sorry if this was a bit disjointed, it's a conglomeration of thoughts I've had running around in my head the last few days, and the Berg incident brought it all back to light with a fury.

Even now the spotlight is being brought back to the Abu Ghraib prison incident from the Berg incident. We are a joke. Our stuff is so far from together it's not even funny.

jim

Americans, at least the majority, are extremely resilient.

I would not underestimate the majority taking offense to terrorist actions on our soil and not respoinding accordingly.

The liberal types on the other hand...

Most of you seem to think that America doesn't have the stomach to do what is necessary to win this fight. Most of you think that we will have to endure more terrorist attacks to gain the resolve to do what is necessary to win the war on terror. I sadly and broken-heartedly agree!

However, it seems to me that there was as much "panic" after 9/11 as there was anger. We have sat back and allowed unprecidented restrictions on our civil rights (sneak-and-peaks, warrantless wiretaps, etc.). Now America blames itself for invoking terrorism upon our own people! The Detroit Free Press has reported Nick Berg execution as "a gruesome development in the Iraqi prisoner-abuse scandal" (see for yourself, front page www.freep.com).

How many more 9/11's can America survive? If our enemy has the will and desire to kill Americans mercilessly, and Americans are willing to blame themselves for what the enemy does to us, then who will win this war?

And no, I'm not an Islamic sympathizer.

I was over at a friends house last night working out on his free weights....he's one of my best friends...well as my wife puts it, one of my only two friends.....thanks dear...

During the session, we started talking about the Berg killing that general lack of resolve on part of the main stream public and the media....I remember when I was a kid, watching a show called "Why we fight"...they would show it at nights on PBS..before they turned left on us...with our tax dollars...

I would watch it with my Grandpa, a WWII vet...North Africa, France, Germany....he told me that they would play these before movies, you know when they would have newsreels...it would tell the nation of the dangers of the Germans and the Japanese....and why we were fighting the war...

Not long ago I was reading a book about the reaction of the country after Pearl Harbor. The day after, the leadership of all the Labor Unions agreed to call off any impending strikes and not to have any work stoppages and order thier union membership to be ready to work around the clock if needed...Congress agreed to curtail spending other than for basic services and the War effort.

Tens of thousands of Americans besieged recuiting offices....a country that was bitterly divided was, over-night united for a common cause. America came togther in a way never seen before or since.....we seemed to for a time after 9/11...but now it seems that expect for a few, that day has been forgotten....I'm one of those that think that once a month the names of the dead should be read and the video of that day played....once a month forever

Even today we honor the lives that were gave freely for the cause of Freedom. This year marks the 60th Anniversry of the Operation Overlord, D-Day. We remember these things because to not, we will be doomed to repeat our mistakes.

And now it seems we are repeating our mistakes. John Kerry wants to turn the hunt for bin Laden and his scum to the FBI. I would like to see the FBI humping the mountains of Afganistan. People are demanding we withdraw from Iraq...now. And what, leave a country that has more infrastructure to support terror in the hands of a bunch of radical fundamentalists who at morning prayers advocat killing Westerners?

There are shortages of muntions, body armor, vehicles, weapons....men and women going off to war are having to buy their own gear. Something that no trooper of the 82nd or the 101st would have done before D-Day.

Now we hear the whining about the prisoner story....yes it was bad, yes it should have not happened...but were was the outrage when the 4 Blackwater employees were dismembered, burned and hung by a bridge. WHERE WAS IT?

Except for a few, there were none.

Now we care about who got voted off Survivor, or made it to the next round of American Idol.....

We are fighting for our very existence...these people want to kill us...I was at my 5 year old's T-ball game tonight, before I went to lift....I was looking around and thinking..."if there was just one terrorist here with a AK, he would try to kill every man woman and child.."

And my Mom and Dad wonder why I carry, even to a T-ball game.....


To me there seems to be no hurry, no concern about what is going on...all people seem hung up on is the economy and scandels....all that will mean nothing unless we pursue the enemy, to his doorstep and kill him...

My Grandfather is a Combat Vet and is my Great Uncle.....at the last family gathering, we were talking about the war and the fighting that the loss of life...My Uncle Frank said this-

"The news media and the Anti-war people would have been out of their skins if they had to live through the loss of life that we had in WWII. If they had been around, they would have brought us home and called it off....."

My Grandpa said this-"Unless we are ready to make the hard sacrifice here at home and be ready for what happends over there and accept it, they (the terrorist) will win..."

Grandpa's never lied to me yet.....

We're not hard-headed enough right now; need more dead americans, many more (don't worry, we'll get 'em).  Also, keep this in mind.  Even during WWII, when we were "so" behind the war effort, there was an active anti-war movement, lots of peaceniks and pacifists even then.  They'll always be with us, they always have been.  One of the salient features of a democracy is that they are notoriously non-warlike.  That's a good thing, really.  Frustrating, perhaps, but a good thing.

I for one am glad we live in a Representative Republic and not a Democracy!

There will be many more Americans, as well as other NM people, killed before we wake up and figure out that Islam is not the 'religion of peace'!

BigDozer66

Quoted: Sadly, they will have to butcher more American civilians, probably on a massive scale, for people to cast aside their delusional fantasies about "moderate islam" and the hope of them wanting to coexist peacefully with us. The vasy majority of people do not understand the nature of the enemy we are facing.   Here's a tip: Read the history of islam and jihad.  If you want to know where it's going, look at where it's been.

A little reading material
biblia.com/islam/islam.htm