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Posted: 5/14/2004 6:42:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 6:44:18 AM EST by LWilde]
Miz LWilde and I took the five year old grandson to get his physical at Quantico this morning (Yes...we are raising him and his seven year old sister.).

During the course of the exam, the clearly very competent and friendly Navy captain (O-6 for you Army and Air Force pukes ) asked several questions about the boy's environment. Everything was going along just fine until he asked, "Are there any GUNS in the house? If so, are the guns locked in a safe along with the ammunition?".

My response was this: "With all due respect doctor, it is none of your business, nor that of the United States Navy nor the United States Marine Corps, whether or not I have any firearms in our home, nor their location or that of any ammunition I might have. You may infer anything you wish from that answer but that IS all you're going to get. I can tell you this: If I had any firearms, they would be where the boy could not get to them. Does that satisfy you?"

Apparently it did not, since he snapped something at me about too many kids getting killed each year by unlocked guns...and walked out of the exam room!

My wife, was a bit perturbed at both of us...him for asking and me for being a hardass. That said...she KNOWS me...and that I am passionate about my rights and won't answer that question.

(During the sniper shootings out here, two BATF guys showed up at our door, after tracking down a Glock my son had purchased from the same Tacoma shop that lost the Bushmaster shooter by theft to the killers. They wanted to talk to my son (used to live in Tacoma) about the pistol they had found on a motorist during one of the many shakedowns of cars then ongoing.

I politely refused the BATF agents entry into my home unless they had a warrant. We had company from the Left Coast and didn't wish to scare the hell out of them and the kids. I said we would be happy to discuss the matter with them on the porch. They said they didn't bring a warrant so the porch would be fine. Sat on the porch and had a very pleasant conversation. I even offered them coffee...but they weren't getting in without that warrant.)

Anyway I believe in my rights and that doctor didn't need to know that info.

When the doc returned, he apologized for snapping at me. I reiterated my position and told him that there are plenty of federal and state agencies that are well aware of my status as a gun owner or not...as the case may be, and that the Corps and Navy don't have any reason to know whether or not I'm a gun owner.

He made another comment about too many kids getting killed each year by guns and we left it at that. I was about to try and educate him with some stats from say....Dr. John Lotts' book, More Guns Less Crime...but he was busy and I needed to get back to my office, so we departed amicably.

As we were leaving, I noticed his office had all sorts of Boston Redsox stuff all over the place. During our early converstion, he had noted that his detailer was sending him to his preferred duty soon, up to NAS Brunswick, ME. That info with the pics and memorabilia from the Beantown Losers, told me I had just finished an encounter of the weird kind with a Northeastern Yankee liberal.

He probably thought I was some sort of knuckle dragging southern redneck hick with smelly hounds on the porch and lots of rusty vehicles in the yard. Oh well...it still ain't none of his biz. I'm sure that doc is still steaming...too bad. I'm right and he's wrong.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:50:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Miz LWilde and I took the five year old grandson to get his physical at Quantico this morning (Yes...we are raising him and his seven year old sister.).

During the course of the exam, the clearly very competent and friendly Navy captain (O-6 for you Army and Air Force pukes ) asked several questions about the boy's environment. Everything was going along just fine until he asked, "Are there any GUNS in the house? If so, are the guns locked in a safe along with the ammunition?".

My response was this: "With all due respect doctor, it is none of your business, nor that of the United States Navy nor the United States Marine Corps, whether or not I have any firearms in our home, nor their location or that of any ammunition I might have. You may infer anything you wish from that answer but that IS all you're going to get. I can tell you this: If I had any firearms, they would be where the boy could not get to them. Does that satisfy you?"

Apparently it did not, since he snapped something at me about too many kids getting killed each year by unlocked guns...and walked out of the exam room!

My wife, was a bit perturbed at both of us...him for asking and me for being a hardass. That said...she KNOWS me...and that I am passionate about my rights and won't answer that question.

(During the sniper shootings out here, two BATF guys showed up at our door, after tracking down a Glock my son had purchased from the same Tacoma shop that lost the Bushmaster shooter by theft to the killers. They wanted to talk to my son (used to live in Tacoma) about the pistol they had found on a motorist during one of the many shakedowns of cars then ongoing.

I politely refused the BATF agents entry into my home unless they had a warrant. We had company from the Left Coast and didn't wish to scare the hell out of them and the kids. I said we would be happy to discuss the matter with them on the porch. They said they didn't bring a warrant so the porch would be fine. Sat on the porch and had a very pleasant conversation. I even offered them coffee...but they weren't getting in without that warrant.)

Anyway I believe in my rights and that doctor didn't need to know that info.

When the doc returned, he apologized for snapping at me. I reiterated my position and told him that there are plenty of federal and state agencies that are well aware of my status as a gun owner or not...as the case may be, and that the Corps and Navy don't have any reason to know whether or not I'm a gun owner.

He made another comment about too many kids getting killed each year by guns and we left it at that. I was about to try and educate him with some stats from say....Dr. John Lotts' book, More Guns Less Crime...but he was busy and I needed to get back to my office, so we departed amicably.

As we were leaving, I noticed his office had all sorts of Boston Redsox stuff all over the place. During our early converstion, he had noted that his detailer was sending him to his preferred duty soon, up to NAS Brunswick, ME. That info with the pics and memorabilia from the Beantown Losers, told me I had just finished an encounter of the weird kind with a Northeastern Yankee liberal.

He probably thought I was some sort of knuckle dragging southern redneck hick with smelly hounds on the porch and lots of rusty vehicles in the yard. Oh well...it still ain't none of his biz. I'm sure that doc is still steaming...too bad. I'm right and he's wrong.




Just remind him that they should start asking about open containers of water around the house, since more children die each year by drowning than are killed by firearms accidents
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 6:51:05 AM EST
Well, I hunt with mt Doctor's husband, and they have guns all over their house.

Glad to hear you stood your ground. The Doc had absolutely no grounds for asking such an inane question.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:04:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
Well, I hunt with mt Doctor's husband, and they have guns all over their house.

Glad to hear you stood your ground. The Doc had absolutely no grounds for asking such an inane question.



What really irritates me is that the question is on the exam forms that the doctors fill out. He didn't just think it up.

That is just wrong. They have NO right to know anything like that.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:06:33 AM EST

Request a "Release of Records" so you can see what he wrote in the chart notes for that encounter. It might be interesting.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:10:09 AM EST
My wife was recently asked the same thing. She told the doctor it was none of his business and had nothing to do with the fact that she had the flu.

He simply replied, "Fair enough" and went on with the examination.

He's damn lucky it wasn't me, I wouldn't have been so polite!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:14:28 AM EST
I am always hoping a doc will ask me that question, so I can answer "They are all locked up except the one I am carrying right now."
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:14:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 7:16:31 AM EST by ScaryGuy]
Had our OBGYN's nurse ask that the other day when Mrs. Scary was in having the checkup on ScaryKid.

I informed her that was information that fell under the auspices of the International Order of The Committee of It's None of your Damn Business.

She got the hint.

SG
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:16:01 AM EST
wait until they computerize all medical records in one huge database that will crossreference with NICS.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:17:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:18:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By imposter:
I am always hoping a doc will ask me that question, so I can answer "They are all locked up except the one I am carrying right now."



Can't carry on the Marine Corps Base Quantico...or I might have. Trust me...I did think of that!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:20:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
<<snip>>

He looked at me and said, I see your point, but do you have trigger locks? It was the next question on the list.



Exactly my point. I refused to answer.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:30:09 AM EST
I find a simple no works well enough. Lie? If it gets them back to doing their job I don't see the harm. I don't need to be lectured from someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and have no business telling me how to live or raise my child.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:47:59 AM EST
As a doc and an AVID shooter, collector, and bonafide gun NUT. This kind of shit pisses me off (the asking part). Like Shootar said its all part of the AMA's antigun stance/remolding toward a leftist society (can you tell how I really feel?).

In the young Captain's defense, a lot of this crap is now considered "part of a complete exam". Read if you dont ask, and document this crap then your not doing your "job" as a doc. I'm sure he's been told to ask these questions, mark the answers and move on. If you dont, youre not doing a complete exam. If you say you did, even if you did the most complete physical exam and asked actually relevant medical questions (eg. do you have asthma? have you had any surgeries?, etc), but you didnt ask and document the answers to the PC BS questions, you can be charged with fraud.

The govt/AMA/the great "they", have decided that they know better and can foster and change attitudes by attempting to force docs and health care providers to ask this kind of shit.

Personally, I only ask if someone has a gun in the home if they tell me theyre depressed and suicidal or if they say their estranged abusive partner is threatening them (if they say, "no." I usually recommend they get one - I hate women beaters!).
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 7:56:41 AM EST
Remember:

There IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY!

It's all part of that BS about ammendments having penumbras & such, that we got because some liberal judge wanted to legalize abortion...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:10:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I find a simple no works well enough. Lie? If it gets them back to doing their job I don't see the harm. I don't need to be lectured from someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and have no business telling me how to live or raise my child.



There is harm. You are verifying to them, that what they are doing is OK.
By taking a stand, you are showing that what they are doing is WRONG.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:14:45 AM EST
1. There is no Constitutional Right To Privacy (tm)
(see above post)

2. While the AMA /is/ antigun, I think the checklist in question is supplied by the American Pediatric Association, which is even more rabidly anti-gun.

3. More kids drown in swimming pools than are killed in accidents with guns, but they never ask about swimming pools and 5 gallon buckets, do they? It's not about safety, it IS an agenda.

4. I am in medical school, and when we covered the pediatric interview and things to ask about safety in the home they did NOT mention a thing about guns. Could be that I'm not only in the South, but a rural state in the South. Nice, sometimes.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:18:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:19:17 AM EST by astro]
This question comes from the American Academy of Pediatrics which has always been a left-leaning organization. I agree wit 4gma.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:28:25 AM EST
'no constitutional right to privacy' - I DON'T need the Constitution to enforce my OWN standards of Privacy.
My answer is 'next question'. Those occasions where I get a real liberal devotee of this crap, who presses the issue, I'll engage them just to watch them sputter. Then I arrange a different Dr for the next visit.
Haven't filed any complaints against Doctors for this intrusiveness, but think that's where the whole issue is heading in the near future.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:33:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 8:33:56 AM EST by alaman]
Should have reminded him that doctors kill 10 times the number of people guns do and asked him for proof he had not killed somebody. I've been waiting for one to ask me.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 8:34:33 AM EST
liberal panzy doctors
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:05:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
This is either part of a standard questionaire from either the AMA or CDC. They asked my daughter these questions at her sports physical last fall. This was after the exam and she had been prepped for the questions prior to as some on this board had mentioned them earlier. He asked about assault weapons she said, no we don't have any of those, just mostly semi auto AR15s and AK47s, she said the ARs are more fun to shoot though. This lefty about flipped his wig when she said that. She further informed him that she's a pretty good shot.

He looked at me like extremely confused. I could see an explanation was in order. I told him that our children age 11-14 all shoot regularly with a variety of rifles. I further explained to him that I have been a police officer in urban and now rural environments for nearly 20 years. In that time I have seen several accidental shootings by children in the city. Never once however in the country. I further explained to the Dr. that the reason was that country kids all learn to shoot as small children, most by 5-8 years old. They understand guns, know how they work, know what they can do and know that you can't call time out once the bullet is on its way. Whatever its aimed at will be destroyed.

City kids however largely get their knowledge of guns from TV. To them its an object of power and mystery, noone other than arnold has ever shown them how to use one or what it can do, and the same bad guy that got killed yesterday is in another movie or TV show tommorow. Kids in the city treat it as an object of mythical power, not a tool or sporting implement thus they have accidents.

My kids don't have accidents and they know that if anyone gets hurt it is their fault, because there is no such thing as guns that just go off. They know that when you pull the trigger, it shoots and thats the only way it shoots. They also know what to do and not to do. That Dr. is the proper way to educate kids about firearms.

He looked at me and said, I see your point, but do you have trigger locks? It was the next question on the list.



Priceless!

Way to go!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:12:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 10:27:04 AM EST by pathfinder74]

Originally Posted By Leisure_Shoot:

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
I find a simple no works well enough. Lie? If it gets them back to doing their job I don't see the harm. I don't need to be lectured from someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about and have no business telling me how to live or raise my child.



There is harm. You are verifying to them, that what they are doing is OK.
By taking a stand, you are showing that what they are doing is WRONG.



They're doctors... they think everything they do is OK. To me, correcting/confronting a doctor is like sending food back in a fast food place... get my drift? But instead of spitting in your food the evil bad doctors will just neglect to wash their hands/change their gloves after touching another patient with crotch rot or something...

Or a better anology... trying to argue with someone on arfcom.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:16:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 9:16:54 AM EST by astro]
Careful about the generalizations, pathfinder74. Some of us are pretty decent folks.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:16:36 AM EST
I recently changed docs, and that question appeared on the forms. While I don't like to lie, thats one question which I will neither answer truthfully nor give some indignant non-answer thats its not their business (which will answer the question in the affirmative at least in their minds anyway). I urge all gun owners to do the same. A simple "No." will tell them what they want to hear, not compromise the security of your guns (who knows who works in that doctor's office and has or may gain access to those records), and it will subvert the political agenda of the AMA which I think is responsible for this question.

There is absolutely no reason for them to have this info. Whether you legally posess firearms in your home or not is irrelevant to the development of any medical condition or treatment of any medical condition. I'm still curious why the AMA apparently thinks the mere existance of a gun in the home is a cause for medical concern. Until that gun can get up on its own accord and pull its own trigger to shoot someone, its not a medical issue. This is NOT like smoking or drinking; activities which are directly related to the development of certain medical conditions. Mere possession of an inanimate object like a gun does not directly lead to any medical condition and I defy any doctor to prove me wrong. And if a doctor wants to seriously argue that point, he's probably still using leeches to cure compound fractures. Its also a patently obvious attempt by the medical profession to gain credibility and influence in the political debate over gun control. Just because they're doctors and may have to treat gunshot injuries does not mean they should have any extra influence over my constitutional or property rights.

And at the most basic level I justify it with the old cliche "Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer." If they want to ask an irrelevant and stupid question of me, they can expect an irrelevant, stupid, and wrong answer in return.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:24:47 AM EST
More hippies disrespecting our military. GO BACK TO DU!
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:53:57 AM EST
We inspect our ROTC cadets vehicles before they leave for home at the end of the semester. Also at spring break. We check the lights, seat belts, fluid levels, tires, etc. The form we have to use also asks whether or not the cadet has firearms. What business is it of ours? I don't ask that question. I just run down the list and tell the cadet I am supposed to ask that question but I'm not going to. Some have guns, some don't. I don't care either way. If they tell me they do, I'll ask them what kind and where do they shoot. Past that, I don't care if they do or don't and I also tell them that it is none of the Army's business whether or not they have firearms.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 9:57:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
I further explained to him that I have been a police officer in urban and now rural environments for nearly 20 years.



No offense, but it is interesting to me that you mentioned that you are a police officer. This probably helped to calm this doctor down, as most liberal feel it is OK for police officers to own firearms. Liberals tend to hold the opinion that because Police are issued guns and get some firearms training that they are more knowledgable with firearms than any average joe.

However, there are plenty of "Joe Six-packs" on this board who have never had any military or police training, but are more knowledgable with firearms and probably better shots than your run of the mill cops and even soldiers! I've heard dozens of stories of Police officers getting killed in accidental shootings during training, and I specifically remember about 4 or 5 soldiers getting killed in Iraq due to accidental shootings.

My point is that if anyone ever asks my kids these questions, is my home going to be considered an unsafe environment because I have guns but not the "military/police" crutch to lean on? Will some do-gooder doc decide that my children are at risk living in my home, and need to be placed with protective services in order to prevent another "accidental gun related tragedy"?
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:04:46 AM EST
I got that same question on a questionnaire when I went to the doctor recently. I hadn't gone in for a long time & they wanted to "update" my records. I just left it blank & no one followed up on it.

----------------------------------------


There IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY!


Dave, I think that we have to agree to disagree. First, there is the 4th Amendment which guarantees that we will not be subject to unreasonable search & seizure. Second, "they" mostly just have the information that we willingly give them. Third, further to your argument, many laws have eroded the 4th Amendment, ex: The Patriot Act.

So, while you are technically right, we can manage a lot of information as individuals.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:10:10 AM EST

Physicians are like most other groups... many are conservative gun owners and many are liberal gun-haters. I've been shooting with several MDs (including my brother).

I agree that no response is probably best for that irrelevant, intrusive question.

DrMark (PhD)

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:35:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By astro:
Careful about the generalizations, pathfinder74. Some of us are pretty decent folks.



Ok.... I fixy fixy.


There is absolutely no reason for them to have this info. Whether you legally posess firearms in your home or not is irrelevant to the development of any medical condition or treatment of any medical condition. I'm still curious why the AMA apparently thinks the mere existance of a gun in the home is a cause for medical concern.


You didn't hear? Guns have been determined in medical journals through extensive research to cause:
- Colds
- Herpes
- Schyzophrenia
- Paranoia
- Mad Cow Disease
and blisters... and therefore they should be banneded.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:52:34 AM EST
This doc is PRO GUN. I have been shooting with my patients. I display my deer hunting pictures, and openly talk about guns. I have even carried my HK USP 9 C in my office. Most of my patients are salt of the earth factory workers and farmers, who love to hunt, shoot and fish as much as I do. In fact, that I share the same hobbies and interests serves to further my practice. It is not uncommon for me to get wild game as payment for debt or as a gift.

I love my guns. AMA--get your nose out of my business.

E.


Link Posted: 5/14/2004 10:58:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By redleg13a:
We inspect our ROTC cadets vehicles before they leave for home at the end of the semester. Also at spring break. We check the lights, seat belts, fluid levels, tires, etc. The form we have to use also asks whether or not the cadet has firearms. What business is it of ours? I don't ask that question. I just run down the list and tell the cadet I am supposed to ask that question but I'm not going to. Some have guns, some don't. I don't care either way. If they tell me they do, I'll ask them what kind and where do they shoot. Past that, I don't care if they do or don't and I also tell them that it is none of the Army's business whether or not they have firearms.



You do? They never did this for us when I was in ROTC in college..
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:01:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By imposter:
I am always hoping a doc will ask me that question, so I can answer "They are all locked up except the one I am carrying right now."



[marvalbert] YESSSSSS![/marvalbert]

Good for you- I hope you get the chance. Watch the back of his white coat turn brown.....
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:14:09 AM EST
When my Doc asks me that, it's so we can compare new purchases/handloads/groups.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:25:12 AM EST
My wife is a family physician here in this wackjob paradise called Massachusetts. She says her bosses tell her she MUST ask those questions of patients, even though I have told her repeatedly that it is an invasion of privacy, a boundary violation that she could get sued for. She gets upset everytime I mention it to her, especially since I told her that doctors had to do the same of patients in the Weimar Republic, and then in the Third Reich. "And look what happened to THOSE patients", I have said to her... That especially upsets her, because her parents are originally from Germany. (Guilt......)

Oh well- at least I've got her to stop handing out the anti-gun pamphlets.

Oddly enough, I know several of her colleagues who carry, and are big-time gun collectors. One even has Class III weapons, incl. an MP40 Schmeisser he carries in a violin case....
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:32:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By alaman:
Should have reminded him that doctors kill 10 times the number of people guns do and asked him for proof he had not killed somebody. I've been waiting for one to ask me.



That's the most moronic logic I've ever heard. While you're at it why don't you ask how many people doctors have saved vs. how many guns have saved.

As a doctor I have to ask that question repeatedly day after day. Like other folks in the thread have mentioned it's part of a standard questionaire that most of us are required to ask and can (and in this area will) be sued if you don't. It's just considered part of a complete exam. Also like someone else said, being in a southern state I know the majority of patients DO have at the very least one gun in their home and their children have been taught proper safety and handling of firearms....that doesn't mean I don't have to ask. Hell I have to ask people that I regularly shoot with because if I don't ask and document it...I'm liable.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 11:36:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By hardcase:
I got that same question on a questionnaire when I went to the doctor recently. I hadn't gone in for a long time & they wanted to "update" my records. I just left it blank & no one followed up on it.

----------------------------------------


There IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY!


Dave, I think that we have to agree to disagree. First, there is the 4th Amendment which guarantees that we will not be subject to unreasonable search & seizure. Second, "they" mostly just have the information that we willingly give them. Third, further to your argument, many laws have eroded the 4th Amendment, ex: The Patriot Act.

So, while you are technically right, we can manage a lot of information as individuals.



Unless it is a SEARCH or a SIEZURE of your person or property by an agent of the govt, the 4th does not apply.

Asking questions, IMHO, should not be considered a SEARCH, just like prohibiting someone from (using drugs, having an abortion, drinking booze, whatever) should not be considered a SIEZURE.

Also note that in legal terms, the 'right to privacy' was created by Roe & the case that immediately preceeded it (dealing with birth control being protected by an invented RtP)...
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:07:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 12:10:04 PM EST by Lazyshooter]
I'm sure there are alot of questions that doctors ask that I would not be willing to answer. Anything not relevant to the reason I'm at the doctor's office is going to be off limits. If I went in with some type of cut that needed stitches or something like that, and the doctor or a questionaire asked me if I smoked, drink, or own a firearm, etc., you can bet I won't answer.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:34:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 12:34:54 PM EST by Atencio]
I have never had that question asked of me or seen it asked on the standard physicals at the hospital I work at. All I can assume is that the powers to be think they have all ready gotten most all guns out of my state so don't need to worry about the question anymore.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 12:46:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 12:56:25 PM EST by HKocher]

Originally Posted By Boosting1Bar:
As a doctor I have to ask that question repeatedly day after day. Like other folks in the thread have mentioned it's part of a standard questionaire that most of us are required to ask and can (and in this area will) be sued if you don't. It's just considered part of a complete exam. Also like someone else said, being in a southern state I know the majority of patients DO have at the very least one gun in their home and their children have been taught proper safety and handling of firearms....that doesn't mean I don't have to ask. Hell I have to ask people that I regularly shoot with because if I don't ask and document it...I'm liable.



I call BS on your claim.

What could you possibly be sued for??? Why are you liable for knowing is a patient owns firearms??? Afterall, even if he says yes, you can't do anything about it.

You're a doctor not a BATFE agent.

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 1:01:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boosting1Bar:

Originally Posted By alaman:
Should have reminded him that doctors kill 10 times the number of people guns do and asked him for proof he had not killed somebody. I've been waiting for one to ask me.



That's the most moronic logic I've ever heard. While you're at it why don't you ask how many people doctors have saved vs. how many guns have saved.



Of course it's moronic. So is the idea of asking patients whether they have guns. That's the whole point of the question.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 1:38:21 PM EST

If physicians could be sued for not asking all patients about guns in the house, it would be required by the medical malpractice insurance companies and there would be plenty of cites availible. I don't know of any.

Sounds like some Docs are giving-in to the antis.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 1:40:12 PM EST
Although my wife and I had rehearsed in preparation for this question being asked, she still answered it when it was. Her compromise was telling him "Yes, but only 1". I had told her to reply that it was a private matter and none of his buisness. By saying what she said, it was like being ashamed of being a gun owner.
I hit the roof. I called the Dr. that evening and let him have it. He was definitly anti-gun and said it WAS his buisness because it's a "health isssue". We went round and round. I told him that not minding his own buisness just cost him 4 patients and we picked up our medical records. Of course I reviewed his comments and threw away the sheet with the notes from that visit. He had a typical liberal "I'm smarter than you" attitude. I also told him my kids don't/won't be wearing bicycle helmets either (unless they want to). If he wants his kids to than thats his call and none of my buisness.
If your a Dr. and you think that you MUST ask this question, then you are part of a problem. Its none of your fucking buisness.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 1:50:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 1:55:10 PM EST by Robert2011]
"Guns are a virus that must be eradicated." That's what they believe.

Here is an interesting article on the problem www.claremont.org/projects/doctors/000317wheeler.html

Excerpt:
We share with physicians the private details of our lives so they can make us well. We depend on them to educate us in the promotion of health. How tempting it is, then, for a doctor to misuse that trust and offer a heartfelt political belief as medical advice. Especially if it's for the good of children.

Pediatricians, regrettably, yielded to that temptation long ago with gun control. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) issued an update on Monday of its recommendations for preventive child health care. The guidelines refer doctors to a detailed action plan and set forth a multi-tiered advocacy effort.
Specifically, the AAP advises doctors to "incorporate questions about guns into their patient history taking" and to "urge parents who possess guns to remove them, especially handguns, from the home."

Link Posted: 5/14/2004 1:59:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 2:01:03 PM EST by Robert2011]
Here is an AAP page about it:
www.aap.org/advocacy/d1family.htm

Quotes from it:

Every two hours someone's child is killed with a loaded gun.

In a 1994 national poll of gun owners, one in four reported keeping guns loaded and ready for use.
U.S. News & World Report poll, 1994

The risk of suicide is five times greater if there's a gun in the home.
Kellermann AL, et al, 1992

The risk of domestic homicide is three times greater if there's a gun in the home.
Kellermann AL, et al, 1993

Everyday, 16 American children under the age of 20 are killed and many more are downed by guns.
National Center for Health Statistics, 1996

One out of five pediatricians nationwide has treated a young gunshot victim.
American Acdemy of Pediatrics, 1994
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 2:00:52 PM EST

I was given the same treatment by our Dr. when my son was a week old. I was told I needed to lock up all my gun's & ammo, & I told her she didn't have a clue. I said my son can't even roll over yet, & your scared he might find my ammo, load my rifle, & pull the trigger, & run in front of the barrel before the bullet gets out? I told her to never ask about our home/guns again as it was none of her business, & she didn't have a clue. She looked at me wide eyed, & said yes, your right. She never brought it up anymore.
When I was living in Rapid City S.D. I was carrying my Baby Eagle concealed, & went to an interview only at a chiropractor's office. I had my 4 yr old son with me, & they decided to give us both a quick exam since they had extra time. We were told to take our shirts off, & when I took my coat off there it was. No big deal, no one said a word about it. About a month later, I'm there to have an adjustment, & get a stern talking to by a nurse, about the time I wore my gun into the office.
I guess it must have created quite a buzz, because when I went to the room were they do the messages, the girl asked me if I had been talked to. I said you mean about my pistol? she said yeah.
I said yes, & she said so you won't be carrying your gun here anymore? I said no, todays my last time here. She seemed shocked, & asked why? I said I had every legal right to carry, & they had every legal right to "Ask" me not to there. I also had the right to go somewhere else, where I can carry if I want. I never went back either.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 2:07:17 PM EST
I am not worried about my Doc. One of my trips to the range, he showed up. He and a good friend were going to sight in their Ar's. They forgot their front sight tool. Gave them mine and told him I would get it later. A week passes and in the mail comes a biohazard bag with my sight tool. Cool doctor.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 2:25:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 5:49:15 PM EST by Boosting1Bar]

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By Boosting1Bar:
As a doctor I have to ask that question repeatedly day after day. Like other folks in the thread have mentioned it's part of a standard questionaire that most of us are required to ask and can (and in this area will) be sued if you don't. It's just considered part of a complete exam. Also like someone else said, being in a southern state I know the majority of patients DO have at the very least one gun in their home and their children have been taught proper safety and handling of firearms....that doesn't mean I don't have to ask. Hell I have to ask people that I regularly shoot with because if I don't ask and document it...I'm liable.



I call BS on your claim.

What could you possibly be sued for??? Why are you liable for knowing is a patient owns firearms??? Afterall, even if he says yes, you can't do anything about it.

You're a doctor not a BATFE agent.




I'm not liable for knowing whether or not my patients have guns. I'm liable for doing a complete and thorough history and physical exam. Part of that, as laid out by my employer, is asking a series of questions. You're right I can't do anything, and that isn't my job. My job is to ask, and to document it. If they say yes, I check yes. If they say no, I check no. If they refuse to answer, I check patient chose not to comply and go on. If I don't ask or check an answer without asking, you don't think I'm liable?

People with degenerative mental illnesses aren't supposed to own guns. Their family or someone is supposed to remove them, if they don't and that person shoots and kills someone, I can assure you someone is going to get sued. Who better than their doctor? As the other physicians here will tell you, you can bet your ass there are lawyers who are familiar with the protocols of the hospitals in their area. If they come and look at my records and see that I didn't ask, or their client tells them I didn't and I have an answer marked, I'm going to get sued.

Do I think the question is BS? Yeah. Would I ask it if I wasn't required to? No. The bottom line however is that I am required to ask it and I do. If I have to choose between a pissed off patient from time to time or my ass and career on the line because I didn't want to offend someone....I'll just have to deal with an angry patient from time to time.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 2:29:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/14/2004 2:30:57 PM EST by eagle1911]

Originally Posted By HKocher:

Originally Posted By Boosting1Bar:
As a doctor I have to ask that question repeatedly day after day. Like other folks in the thread have mentioned it's part of a standard questionaire that most of us are required to ask and can (and in this area will) be sued if you don't. It's just considered part of a complete exam. Also like someone else said, being in a southern state I know the majority of patients DO have at the very least one gun in their home and their children have been taught proper safety and handling of firearms....that doesn't mean I don't have to ask. Hell I have to ask people that I regularly shoot with because if I don't ask and document it...I'm liable.



I call BS on your claim.

What could you possibly be sued for??? Why are you liable for knowing is a patient owns firearms??? Afterall, even if he says yes, you can't do anything about it.

You're a doctor not a BATFE agent.




Actually, in this day and age this scenario could very well happen: 21 year old lives in his own apartment. 21 year old owns handgun. 21 year old goe and sees doctor for physical. Doctor ask how things are going. 21 year old says things are tough right now, I am under a lot of pressure, I got into some trouble at work, school is tough, my girlfriend broke up with me and my parents say if my grades drop they will not pay for school. Doc replies man thats tough, lets complete this physical so you can get some rest (Doc's whatever you say in a situation like this). So doc does phyisical, skips question about guns, tells 21 year old that he needs to have some standard bloowork done, which he can do before he leaves, and he will contact patient if anything else is needed.

21 year old goes home and finds out he failed his class. takes out handgun and kills self. Parents find out and winder where and when he got the gun. 12 year olds friend say he got it two months before said incident. Parents get lawyer because they want to blame someone for sons death.

Lawyer gets medical records and sees doctor did not ask about gun in home, especially since their were so many "warning signs". Further, lawyer finds out that it is recommended by professional organizations that this question be asked, viola, lawsuit.

Don't think it could hapend, we got a man right now talking about suing the government, because his son was brutally killed in a warzone and the government did not take care of him. This is not meant to hijack and start a discussion about those events, just to illustrate what people sue for these days.


Boosting1Bar beat me to it.
Link Posted: 5/14/2004 2:30:05 PM EST
I got hit with the same question during my last company physical.


I told them I had dozens of guns that I kept laying around loaded with the safeties off where the kids could get to them easily.

"The little bastards cost me a fortune in groceries, maybe I'll get lucky and lose a couple, three of 'em!"


Another gullible dumb fuck. You shoulda seen the look on his face.

What was even more interesting, was when he asked me how many kids I had and I said 'none'.


Between that and the dumbass that believed I was wounded in WW1, gullible people never cease to amaze me.
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