Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 4/21/2005 6:26:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2005 6:26:34 PM EST by VA-gunnut]
This is a forward I received tonight, I normally don't read forwards, but the subject line caught my attention! This is really awesome if you haven't seen it here it is:

MEDICAL PHYSICIANS vs. GUN OWNERS

Medical Physicians:
a. The number of medical physicians in the U.S. is approx. 700,000.
b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (Statistics courtesy of U.S.
Dept. of Health & Human Services)

Now think about this:

Guns:
a. The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.
c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.0000188.
Statistically, medical doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous
than gun owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do"!

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ...
... ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors
before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on
lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical
attention.


Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:25:32 PM EST
Old news, but interesting.

Vulcan94
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:26:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:28:50 PM EST
Guns don't kill people, puppies kill people.
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:29:56 PM EST
not to be an asshole but which saves more people? But yes you have a better chance of accidently being killed by a doctor than being shot and killed
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:30:21 PM EST
Crap, my doc carries a gun. I'm screwed.
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:31:05 PM EST
Single Mother Homes Are 2,220 Times More Dangerous To Children Than Guns.

14,058 children died by means other than guns deathsexagerace.pdf 1,170 were murdered by their mothers, 8,000 died from SIDS ("sudden infant death syndrome", which includes an unspecified number who were actually murdered by their mothers), 29 were murdered by their biological fathers, 310 were murdered by men who were not their fathers, and 4,549 died of natural causes. Including SIDS and natural causes, children are killed at a rate of 44.4 per 100,000 single-mother households (SMHs) and 5.5 per 100,000 non-SMHs. If the 27 million children now in SMHs were no more likely to be killed than children in families, 10,503 fewer of them would have died in 1996, including 163 who wouldn't have been gun-related victims and 7,600 who wouldn't have died from SIDS.

One could argue that SMHs are thus 493 times more dangerous to children than guns, except that outlawing SMHs would also reduce the number of gun deaths from 220 to 57, a reduction in the rate of accidental child gun deaths from 0.08 to 0.02 per 100,000 guns.
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:34:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2005 6:35:10 PM EST by ARDOC]
Paco, instead of showing us how ignorant you are. Why dont you do a search of this subject since it has been brought up several hundred times. Why dont you read why the numbers you present are not valid. Why dont you learn something about statistics and analysis of studies and then post what you have learned.
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:37:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By sp1shooter:
Crap, my doc carries a gun. I'm screwed.



Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:56:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Paco, instead of showing us how ignorant you are. Why dont you do a search of this subject since it has been brought up several hundred times. Why dont you read why the numbers you present are not valid. Why dont you learn something about statistics and analysis of studies and then post what you have learned.



I always thought this was more of a joke than actual facts.
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 6:57:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
Paco, instead of showing us how ignorant you are. Why dont you do a search of this subject since it has been brought up several hundred times. Why dont you read why the numbers you present are not valid. Why dont you learn something about statistics and analysis of studies and then post what you have learned.



Thank you.



Link Posted: 4/21/2005 7:07:41 PM EST
Take a chill pill, ARDOC, we all love you.

I think the point Paco was trying to make was to show how stats can be twisted, or rather, the meaning of stats. Example, "You are 43 times more likely to be killed by a family member ... " We've all seen these BS statistics.

I'm much more scared of lawyers. (Don't sue me, Steve-in-VA!)
Link Posted: 4/21/2005 7:08:15 PM EST
eh, not suprised, I have met some really bad doctors
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 2:22:41 AM EST
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 2:34:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 2:35:39 AM EST
Well, my wife has had three additional surgeries becuase the moron called a doctor couldn't get it right the first time. She's yet to be injuried by any of my firearms. Of course I keep them in a safe. Maybe scapels should be locked away.

Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:29:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:37:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.



Happy to never see an asshole like you again. Cya, crawl back into your fucking hole.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:41:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 7:41:50 AM EST by green-grizzly]
The worst thing about bad doctors is that they keep the louzy lawyers in business.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:43:17 AM EST


Doctors VS Gun Owners

Is it that time of the month again?

Gee, a month goes by so quick.





What ARDOC said.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:43:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.



Is it "really awesome" or "pretty funny"? Strange how you changed your tune when called on the carpet.

As has been said before, when your wife is ready to deliver, when your child is sick, when you have your heart attack or can't breathe, stay at home and see what happens.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:45:40 AM EST
Yup, the ignorant are post it again.

Such is life.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 7:59:56 AM EST
Yea, yea so the stats are inaccurate and they misrepresent the salient issues. True enough - but did Paco really earn an ass-whooping for posting? I know this gets rehashed here every few weeks but maybe someone should offer Paco some education instead or at least someone with search function could direct him and others to previous threads where this has been explored, or not, I guess. *shrug*

[redgreen]Remember, we're all in this together. I'm pullin' for ya[/redgreen]
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 8:23:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 8:28:41 AM EST by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By legalese77:
Yea, yea so the stats are inaccurate and they misrepresent the salient issues. True enough - but did Paco really earn an ass-whooping for posting? I know this gets rehashed here every few weeks but maybe someone should offer Paco some education instead or at least someone with search function could direct him and others to previous threads where this has been explored, or not, I guess. *shrug*

[redgreen]Remember, we're all in this together. I'm pullin' for ya[/redgreen]


Search only goes back three months:

Guns don't kill people, doctors do - posted 2/26/06

Guns Vs Doctors - posted 3/23/06

And now today's thread. Every month....


My standard reply:

Though this has been posted hundreds of times here, I'm never able to stomach how absurd such a comparison it is. It doesn't make gun-laws look lame, it makes the person making the comparison look lame.

First of all, comparing # of doctors to # of gun-owners is apples and oranges. It SHOULD be the # of people who visit doctors each year, not the # of doctors. That would at least be a little bit closer to a relevant comparison. And then the statement "NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR" just contradicts everything before it and underscores the lameassness of this whole comparison - you should be comparing the # of people who have a doctor to the # of people who have a firearm!


Secondly, accidental firearm-deaths is under 800/year. It'd be nice if even the BASIC facts were correct in that original comparison.


Thirdly, nearly every study I've ever come across refers to "Medical Errors" rather than "Physician errors". "Medical errors" could include mistakes by lab workers, nurses, LPNs, and any number of various technicians like imaging specialists, radiologists, surgical techs, etc.

The stats for documented "medical errors" vary by study. Here are two -

Hospital Admissions/Year = approx. 33,600,000 (1997)
Total Number of Hospital Deaths/yr Due to Medical Error:
* 44,000-98,000 deaths due to errors. (0.13%-0.29% fatal error rate) Institute of Medicine Report
* 5,000-15,000 deaths due to errors (0.014%-0.045% fatal error rate) AMA News


Sorry but because this gets posted at least once every month or two, I've just grown weary of seeing such lameness pass by over and over.


Link Posted: 4/22/2005 8:50:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By sp1shooter:
Crap, my doc carries a gun. I'm screwed.


Is he your proctologist? Could be real trouble.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 8:56:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.




So if I post some made-up bullshit facts about how there are five times as many pedophiles in the Marine Corps, and make tasteless jokes about the Toys for Tots campaign - because I think it is "funny" - I should just tell Marines to "tke it easy" if they get pissed off.

You post blatantly incorrect "facts" about a man's profession, and you're surprised that he's upset??

Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:06:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.



ARDOC is anything but a butthole but you wouldn't know that because you are too busy running off at the mouth without finding out if what you are saying is even accurate. FWIW, ARDOC is probably the most easy going doc around here. Most of the rest of us are some seriously loose canons. Especially me! I'm a crazy mofo, always root for the mad scientist/megalomaniac in movies, and know more ways to kill someone than I can even count! As if they didn't already teach me enough ways to do so in the Marine Corps! Bwahahahahahah!

This study has been quoted here more times than any of us can count and it has been shown to be bullshit more times than we can count also. But there are still always a handful of people who hate doctors(class warfare or whatever bullshit) and it has gotten old for plenty of us so that is the reason for the angst. It is a tough job even on a good day. You ought to try it sometime.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:11:13 AM EST
I'm going to have to side with Paco here. I have only been reading this board for like a day and I thought it was pretty funny. In no way did I think the statistics were accurate, that it was in some way a bash on doctors, or that it was a scientifically sound argument. I found it minorly amusing and took it as entertainment and am quite frankly shocked at the cynicism on this thread.. heh.. But then that's my opinion today :) Maybe it will change in two years after reading this joke 24 more times :)
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:11:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.




So if I post some made-up bullshit facts about how there are five times as many pedophiles in the Marine Corps, and make tasteless jokes about the Toys for Tots campaign - because I think it is "funny" - I should just tell Marines to "tke it easy" if they get pissed off.




Now them's fighting words, boy!

Damn, I'm getting it from every angle in this thread. I'm never coming back to GD! Waaaahhhhh!
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:15:10 AM EST
I wouldnt call myself easy going! LOL. Like a lot docs we get a little stressed. But thanks Doc for the support. I have my BMW shined and waxed, tell you daughter I will be there at 8 to pick her up. I also invested in one of those Interceptor Vests to counter your ammo acquisition.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:26:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
I wouldnt call myself easy going! LOL. Like a lot docs we get a little stressed. But thanks Doc for the support. I have my BMW shined and waxed, tell you daughter I will be there at 8 to pick her up. I also invested in one of those Interceptor Vests to counter your ammo acquisition.



Damn, now where the Hell is that case of AP .308?? Shit! Honey....!

You are alot more laid back than I am around here. LOL.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:11:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:


Sorry but because this gets posted at least once every month or two, I've just grown weary of seeing such lameness pass by over and over.



I read you loud and clear. Thanks for following up with the real poop. You've had some outstanding informational posts lately...folks like you are one of the best assets arfcom has.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:18:13 AM EST
OK, let's bash French Doctors.



Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:20:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 10:21:17 AM EST by krpind]

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Search only goes back three months:FORWARD A YEAR???

Guns don't kill people, doctors do - posted 2/26/06

Guns Vs Doctors - posted 3/23/06




Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:26:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By paco97:
ARDOC you need to take it easy! I thought it was pretty funny forward. I thought that I would share it with you guys! I don't really care if the stats are correct, I just thought it was funny! Dude you take life way to serious. You'll never see me in General Discussion again thanks to buttholes like ARDOC.



Happy to never see an asshole like you again. Cya, crawl back into your fucking hole.






Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
Moved to GD.



OK I blame the mod for this
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:34:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Single Mother Homes Are 2,220 Times More Dangerous To Children Than Guns.

14,058 children died by means other than guns deathsexagerace.pdf 1,170 were murdered by their mothers, 8,000 died from SIDS ("sudden infant death syndrome", which includes an unspecified number who were actually murdered by their mothers), 29 were murdered by their biological fathers, 310 were murdered by men who were not their fathers, and 4,549 died of natural causes. Including SIDS and natural causes, children are killed at a rate of 44.4 per 100,000 single-mother households (SMHs) and 5.5 per 100,000 non-SMHs. If the 27 million children now in SMHs were no more likely to be killed than children in families, 10,503 fewer of them would have died in 1996, including 163 who wouldn't have been gun-related victims and 7,600 who wouldn't have died from SIDS.

One could argue that SMHs are thus 493 times more dangerous to children than guns, except that outlawing SMHs would also reduce the number of gun deaths from 220 to 57, a reduction in the rate of accidental child gun deaths from 0.08 to 0.02 per 100,000 guns.




If that is true can you post the source? Google failed me.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 10:36:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Robert2011:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Single Mother Homes Are 2,220 Times More Dangerous To Children Than Guns.

14,058 children died by means other than guns deathsexagerace.pdf 1,170 were murdered by their mothers, 8,000 died from SIDS ("sudden infant death syndrome", which includes an unspecified number who were actually murdered by their mothers), 29 were murdered by their biological fathers, 310 were murdered by men who were not their fathers, and 4,549 died of natural causes. Including SIDS and natural causes, children are killed at a rate of 44.4 per 100,000 single-mother households (SMHs) and 5.5 per 100,000 non-SMHs. If the 27 million children now in SMHs were no more likely to be killed than children in families, 10,503 fewer of them would have died in 1996, including 163 who wouldn't have been gun-related victims and 7,600 who wouldn't have died from SIDS.

One could argue that SMHs are thus 493 times more dangerous to children than guns, except that outlawing SMHs would also reduce the number of gun deaths from 220 to 57, a reduction in the rate of accidental child gun deaths from 0.08 to 0.02 per 100,000 guns.




If that is true can you post the source? Google failed me.



Google picked it right up: Link

(not agreeing or disagreeing, just posting) btw, it helps if you pick a unique phrase and quote it when Googling
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 11:11:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 11:23:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Search only goes back three months:FORWARD A YEAR???

Guns don't kill people, doctors do - posted 2/26/06

Guns Vs Doctors - posted 3/23/06





Oh bloody 'ell!

DOH!
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 11:50:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Search only goes back three months:FORWARD A YEAR???

Guns don't kill people, doctors do - posted 2/26/06

Guns Vs Doctors - posted 3/23/06





Oh bloody 'ell!

DOH!



Oh Hell, I'm sure it'll still be getting posted at least monthly even next year.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:17:22 PM EST

You post blatantly incorrect "facts" about a man's profession, and you're surprised that he's upset??


How many here think auto mechanics pad the bill, charge for parts they didn't replace and generally screws anyone who isn't car smart?

How many here think lawyers are greedy ambulance chasers?

How many here think members of the clergy are as crooked as Jim Baker?

How many here think all welfare recipents are worthless bums?

<end ad nauseam>

Some mechanics shouldn't be allowed to own tools; some doctors shouldn't be allowed to look at a scapel. It's a little "different" when the criticism is aim at you rather than the other guy.

Let he who is without sin...

Eddie
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:25:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
not to be an asshole but which saves more people? But yes you have a better chance of accidently being killed by a doctor than being shot and killed



Guns save two million people a year, average. How many people are saved from life-threatening injury or illness annually by physicians within the United States, out of curiousity?
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:27:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By LS1Eddie:

You post blatantly incorrect "facts" about a man's profession, and you're surprised that he's upset??


How many here think auto mechanics pad the bill, charge for parts they didn't replace and generally screws anyone who isn't car smart?

How many here think lawyers are greedy ambulance chasers?

How many here think members of the clergy are as crooked as Jim Baker?

How many here think all welfare recipents are worthless bums?

<end ad nauseam>

Some mechanics shouldn't be allowed to own tools; some doctors shouldn't be allowed to look at a scapel. It's a little "different" when the criticism is aim at you rather than the other guy.

Let he who is without sin...

Eddie




Lots of people have incorrect preconceptions and stereotypes.

I think that is qualitatively different from passing on inaccurate "statistics" presented as fact.



If I post an official-looking "analysis" of complete BS statistics, claiming that some official government statistic shows that 95% of all mechanics rip people off, and warn people about it - that is different from jsut saying, "Mechanics are ripoffs". The latter is just a statement of opinion, the former is an attempt to mislead people with misinformation.

Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:43:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Lots of people have incorrect preconceptions and stereotypes.

I think that is qualitatively different from passing on inaccurate "statistics" presented as fact.




oh yeah?

Daar heb ik schijt aan.

Lullepraat! You Oetlul! Dwaas! Randdebiel! Zoon van een hoerige kameel! Kippeneuker! Ik trek je arm eraf en sla je ermee! Je hebt het niveau van een poffertje!

(LMAO, can't go on, (especially after reading "Jij eet smegmakaas"


translations here

Link Posted: 4/22/2005 3:55:33 PM EST
they also need to add gun owners that commit murders to be fair... because I'm sure this covers doctors who have failed to follow their oath.
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 5:06:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/22/2005 5:12:48 PM EST by LS1Eddie]

Lots of people have incorrect preconceptions and stereotypes.


EVERYONE has preconceptions and stereotypes.


I think that is qualitatively different from passing on inaccurate "statistics" presented as fact.


I don't. Opinions are usually presented with a "this happened to me or my friend." A lie is a lie.


If I post an official-looking "analysis" of complete BS statistics, claiming that some official government statistic shows that 95% of all mechanics rip people off, and warn people about it - that is different from jsut saying, "Mechanics are ripoffs". The latter is just a statement of opinion, the former is an attempt to mislead people with misinformation.


This is the internet; anyone can post anything. "Studies show 97 pecent of all statistics are flawed. Eighty-five percent of the population knows that."

I think the numbers posted are probably correct, but they are presented in such a fashion to draw the reader to a certain conclusion. Imagine that.

Eddie



Link Posted: 4/22/2005 5:10:03 PM EST

Daar heb ik schijt aan.

Lullepraat! You Oetlul! Dwaas! Randdebiel! Zoon van een hoerige kameel! Kippeneuker! Ik trek je arm eraf en sla je ermee! Je hebt het niveau van een poffertje!



Did you call him a son of a camel?
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 6:43:21 PM EST
When I saw the title of your thread that E-mail was the first thing that popped into my mind.

Gotta love it. We MUST outlaw doctors IMMEDIATLY, its for the CHILDREN!
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 9:58:38 PM EST
Medical mistakes? If it was easy, people in the medical profession, and I include not just doctors, but many of the nurses, and other personell you come in contact with, have from 4 to 12 years of education AFTER high school. And they must study constantly to stay up with current medications, procedures, treatments.

And we are losing doctors, and others in the medical field due to unjustified malpractice suits.

And if you don't think some people are just out for the money, look at the woman just arrested in regards to the finger in the Wendy's chili. She apparently made a living from suing people.

That is one of the reasons your medical costs are what they are. I won't ask ARDOC, but I will bet he, like any other doctor, orders tests (which cost good money), or referrals to specialists, to avoid malpractice suits... cya.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 6:48:01 AM EST
hoohohoho!
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 6:51:09 AM EST
Top Top