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Posted: 12/29/2002 6:45:44 PM EDT
There's been a lot of talk here lately about distrust or dislike of the LEO community. Some in my view justified, some unjustified. I thought an anonymous poll would best express the mindset of the membership. The subject of the poll will be [u]your local civilian law enforcement only[/u], not military police or government agencies such as the ATF or FBI. Feel free to post a comment or just vote anonymously. I'm going to abstain from voting, not because of my past LE duty in the service, but because I'm the topic creator. For the sake of obtaining an unbiased result, perhaps those who currently work as civilian LEs could abstain from voting and stick to posting comments, as the poll is geared toward recognizing the current civilian viewpoint. Of course it's your choice. Please don't turn this thread into a flame war.

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:47:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:49:55 PM EDT
I trust the Sheriff and most of his county boys, but the city cops around here have done some really...well, silly things.  I shant elaborate, but truuuuust me on this one[;)]
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:51:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 6:52:15 PM EDT by kpel308]
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 6:59:36 PM EDT
A guy from another board just had 20 guns stolen from his house. When the cops came, they pretty much rode his ass, criticized and questioned him why he thought it necessary to have so many guns. Never mind the fact they were supposed to be there to take down a report and catch the perps who robbed his house. Their first priority was to interrogate him and why he has such an evil fetish for guns.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:06:15 PM EDT
Need like a "some are good, some are bad" or similar option. Like every profession, LE is made up of [b]PEOPLE[/b]. Some are great, and some are assclowns. Some might even be assclowns on crack.....


Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:12:23 PM EDT
Another NO vote here.

Too many on the local PD carry a big chip on their shoulders.

One gave a local high school kid a ticket for going too SLOW over the speed bumps in the school parking lot. [>:/] Don't think his mom didn't chew some ass on that one. I'd have payed to see it.

If they don't like you, they hassle the crap out of you. And they are GOD.

But overall, I'm very much pro-LEO. We just have a poor performing dept. here.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:13:50 PM EDT
In general, I'd have to say that the cops in my city do their job pretty well.  
I've run into a couple of them who I thought were complete idiots, but overall most of them are good.

Denver on the other hand...
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:14:54 PM EDT
Tough call here. It's hard for me to provide an absolute answer.

I live in a small (5K folks) town. The blatant ignorance and disregard of Constitutional rights by the local PD boys has to be seen to be believed. Even on the county force, there has been a trend toward younger deputies who have either no knowledge or respect for the rights I and others hold so dear.

Do I trust them to defend my life, and my loved ones? To do so would be a betrayal of one of the basic human principles-self reliance and self responsibility.

Do I trust them when the time comes to come down on the side of Constitutional rights? As a whole, no. But a few of them are actually good guys and respect God-given rights.

That said, though, even of these "good guys" I suspect just like there were in Germany, there are alot of followers who will follow their orders. Their actions have shown that to be the case. Many of these folks seem to think they are a law unto themselves. So, on this basis, I'm going to have to vote that no, I don't trust them. As always, hope springs eternal, and I hope I'm wrong when the big freedom or death bash goes down.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:17:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:18:33 PM EDT
I voted YES as I believe most LEOs want to serve and protect in their best ability. However, I would not trust every LEO to be there for me at all times as that would be impossible for them to do.
Unfortunately, you will find those hypocrite LEOs that believe they need to uphold the law of the area they live in even though they don't believe in those laws personally and that they will arrest you even though those laws may infringe on your rights.
But personally, I always had good relations with the police officers where I live and have no problems with any of them personally.

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 7:25:15 PM EDT by GlockBoy]
Here's a little story from my hometown, just wanted to share with ya'll.


Bonham cop pleads guilty to ATV theft

BONHAM — A Bonham Police corporal pleaded guilty Wednesday to misdemeanor theft for taking an all-terrain vehicle from a residence in November.

Wally Lee Spindle was sentenced to six months in jail and two years of probation plus he must pay court costs. He agreed to voluntarily give up his peace officer's license, Bonham Police Chief Mike Bankston said in a written statement.

Investigation revealed that Spindle was one of three people involved in the theft of the ATV, Bankston said. The department has issued warrants for the other two people involved and expects to have suspects in custody within 48 hours, the chief said.

On Nov. 18, four days after the Kawasaki ATV was reported stolen, Bonham Police investigator Wendell Bockman received a call from Fannin County Chief Deputy Donnie Foster, who had received a tip that Spindle had an ATV at his residence that matched the description of the stolen vehicle.

Bockman and Foster went to the tipster's house and verified the ATV's description. The tipster said Spindle and his girlfriend had taken the ATV to the house to store until Christmas, Bankston said.

The next day Bockman interviewed Spindle as a witness. Spindle was placed on paid suspension on Nov. 25. Additional investigation revealed that Spindle might have greater involvement, Bankston said.

Spindle had been an officer with the department since May 4, 1987, and had risen to the rank of corporal.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:28:26 PM EDT
I don’t know, but I’ve only been in this town for a little under three months. I have only met the COP once and it was for my pistol and revolver permit. Seemed like a personable man even though he is retired from NJ [:)]. He was surprised to find that he is the one who signs off on the permits and that he must if the person passes the background check. As far as the rest of the force, I have only seen a cruiser from my town driving around once.

I haven’t had much contact with the local police/ populous to gain a good perspective.

Off the top of my head I would lean towards them upholding the law as written.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:29:08 PM EDT
I will answer with a qualified NO.

In a 25 mile radius of where I live there
are about 80,000 people.
We have 2 or 3 murders a year, and about
the same no. of "Hostage" situations.
(Have never had a Terrorist Incident )

This same area has [b]4 fully equipped
"Swat" teams[/b] not counting State Police.
The police may be trustworthy, but I
have my doubts about the people in charge.

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:35:21 PM EDT
This is kinda a dumb question. It is like "Are Republicans good or bad?" when in fact they can be both.

I guess my answer is I trust "most" of the individual officers and deputies but I distrust the motivations and policies of those in charge.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:37:40 PM EDT
in metropolis that i live in (pop.1900) i so far have only met the TAX COLLECTORS not real cops. i have a state trooper neighbor who is a real stand up guy though
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:40:37 PM EDT
Don't any LEOs take this personally.

The entire concept of ANY authority figures is, to me, the lesser of two evils. IE if everyone lived responsibly, we wouldn't need authority figures. Given the choice of having authority figures or anarchy, I'll reluctantly accept the former.

Although my local LEOs are pretty damned good, I refuse to give them total trust because they are human beings and will be human. That can be both good and bad....

There was, in ancient times, a plan to give certain authority to the Centurions (or something like that)to take care of things. Some ancient philosopher asked:"Who will watch the guards?"

A. My rights are too precious to be entrusted to ANYONE.

B.By our community keeping a sharp eye on our LEOs, we insure that we continue to have a decent PD. When a community doesn't keep an eye on the local LEOs, they get what they deserve...a lousy local PD.

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:40:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2002 7:50:11 PM EDT by AFARR]
I live in Chicago.

I watch the local cops turn on their lights to cut around people at red lights and then stop up the street at Dunkin Donuts.  

I watch them pull over and park illegally (blocking the turn lane) and walk in to the restaurant.

It may be minor things like this, but when members of an organization start to feel they are above the laws that apply to common people, the attitude becomes pervasive and they are no longer there to "protect and serve" but to keep the common people in line.

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:42:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:43:33 PM EDT
It takes 6 months to get your carry permit here. In most other counties it takes 2 weeks. Instead of just letting you renew your permit when it expires they make you go thru the whole process again.

The police do not trust us with guns, therefore I do not trust them.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 7:49:43 PM EDT
The only problem I have with the in the area police is with the MPD Chief. He has a nasty tendancy to cry 'racisim' whenever he is criticized (he's even suing the city)...

However, I trust the actual on-duty cops, and have had no 'bad cop' experiences...
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:36:48 PM EDT
I don't trust any law enforcement: local, county, state or federal. But of the four, I distrust local PD the least.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:43:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:48:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I voted yes.  I know many of them personally.

Arlington, TX.
View Quote

You don't happen to know Hank Hill, do you?
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:51:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 9:56:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Originally Posted By Yankee1911:

You don't happen to know Hank Hill, do you?
View Quote

I wouldn't buy propane from anyone else!
View Quote

Link Posted: 12/29/2002 10:36:53 PM EDT
Yeah, cops are people too. Good ones and bad ones.

Being in the FD introduced me to pretty much all the town cops and a few staties.

I just have to say, its nice having a police armorer around when u have problems, or when u want to try something cool out.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:08:50 PM EDT
When I had my "shoot the burglar" episode, a patrol cop had some snide comments to add to the case file. He wasn't even the investigator, just a patrol peon. WTF?

Generally speaking, Nashville cops are anti-gun. Their last several chiefs have been anti also.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:38:53 PM EDT
[b]"Do you trust your local law enforcement? Yes or no."[/b]

No! and the sad part is that I know most of them[rolleyes]some will even tell you I'm "one of them" but I'm not.

90% of the people I know in public life have an "US vs Them" idea about every day folks,even the fire fighters I know only seem to want to help if something really bad has happened everything eles is just a pain in the ass for them.
Link Posted: 12/29/2002 11:49:13 PM EDT
Do I think most local cops are good people? Sure.

Do I TRUST local cops to save my life and protect me and my loved ones should the need arise? NO, thats just one of the reasons I own guns and do my best to become a better marksman. Self-reliance...

The only Cop i really know is a great guy. But it always feels that every other cop i run into is an @sshole. The only time I ever got a ticket, the cop was acting like a total bastard. Good thing she never found out I had 4 rifles and a shotgun in the car as i was comming back from the range. Things coulda gotten much worse. And then there's the power trip attitude that they get. I was at a local arts and wine festival where the cops were showing off their new SWAT car (a lightly armored vehicle) and the cop told me it could stop "Anything from a rifle" UH-HUH... [puke]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:26:19 AM EDT
I'm a Vol. Firefighter in a small town, as for the city boys....in general.. NO

My fulltime job, Im a 9-1-1 dispatcher, So All I will say about the County Guys...I trust 2, and I can name at least a dozen that I dont!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:32:51 AM EDT
Even my kids can’t stand cops.

They have this one A-Hole officer who spends a lot of time at their school.

My kids are good kids and honor role students and varsity athletes. This cop goes around asking kids if the piece of trash on the ground was theirs and he does it with a real overbearing authoritative attitude and forces kids to pick up other peoples trash while he watches to get his jollies.

Almost all the kids in the schools hate this guy and are growing to hate cops.

Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:37:01 AM EDT
I was wondering how many LEO's trust the average citizen in this country any more.  

I do not mean the real bad guys, but rather the average person.  

Are you one of the average persons, who refuse to help their neighbor when you hear or see them being assaulted by their spouse?  Or are you the one that just turns his back, trying to justify why you should not get involved.  

We all have stories about how someone, in some job, some place, at sometime have wronged us.  Why can you not look beyond yourself and step up to be counted on.  

I gave up a very good paying job to become a peace officer, to become something more than just average.  I decided to put my ass where my mouth was, and do something other than bitch about it.  

No not everyone has to become a peace office, but evaluate yourself and actions and see where you can set up at.  This country does not just run its self, nor do our local communities.  

Nightly I fight that which you fear.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:59:33 AM EDT
When I went to Phoenix to get my form 4’s signed and later to pick them up they where doing some street work and remodel on some of the surrounding buildings.

There is nearby parking but all the meters are covered and signs are up saying no parking except for a few disabled spots. I am disabled and was lucky to get one of the four provided both times.

Both times I was there; there was a cop whose only job seamed to be driving up and down both sides of the street for two blocks writing tickets. I noticed many of the vehicles ticketed had disabled plates and placards.

These poor disabled and elderly people (who had to be there if they wanted to or not) could not walk far enough to park anywhere else and the spaces where there and they all got hosed.

I felt so sorry for this elderly couple who where both using walkers park there car and start on their way to the courthouse while this officer was making his way toward their car.

Thank you officers for your selfless actions.

Link Posted: 12/30/2002 2:45:41 AM EDT
I didn't have much of an opinion one way or the other until a couple of years ago when I was stopped going to work early in the AM. I believe the LEO(county) thought I might be a DUI or he was just nosy.  No erratic driving (haven't used alcohol in 12 yrs.)and I wasn't speeding. What bothered me was that he lied and said I had crossed left of center 3 times. I knew it was a lie because One: I hadn't and Two: If I had any good cop would have stopped me the first time I did it not wait for two more times and 2.5 more miles. He was a real wiseass and when he saw that I hadn't been drinking, it pissed him off and he threatened to give me a "citation." I should have asked for one, plead "not guilty" and asked for a jury trial, thereby costing him and the County time and money. But I didn't, I just kept my cool and went on. I found out later that this jerk did this often, hoping for DUI arrests.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:20:18 AM EDT
i reluctactly voted "no".

i live in a small town (under 5k population). a "crime spree" in this locale is 3 expired tags in one week.

our local p.d. has alternated personalities from nazi paramilitary to lunatic to big brother for the last 25 years.

the chief that i grew up with was a bona fide alcoholic, yet he was the best chief the town ever had...a gentleman with common sense and a big heart.

despite the dept. having a couple of double-naught spy types on the force, he somehow ran a fairly clean department.

a few years ago, we had a new chief that had worked his way up thru the ranks of the dept.. it seemed every time he staged one of his swat-like "drug raids" (three high school kids smoking pot in dad's basement, more often than not)...'someone' had tipped the local stoners to the raid and mr. chief started looking bad...coming up empty handed.

well, mr. brainiac chief got the bright idea that it was someone in city hall that was calling up the party boys and warning them of the impending raids.

he contacted another brainiac friend of his that worked for the local phone company. together, they secretly, AND ILLEGALLY, wire tapped all the phones in city hall and put a tape recorder on them.

the tap went on for months. mr. einstein didn't catch his "leak"...but he did let something he heard on the tape slip to a secretary that remembered the only person she told the story to was a friend...over the phone!

she talked to a few others in city hall that noticed the chief knew some things he couldn't have known without listening to phone conversations.

the fbi was brought in and the whole department was turned inside out when the scheme went public.

the town was horrified.

the chief and two others in the p.d. were fired.

sadly, the ex-chief is currently an ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR in the county i now reside in.

if 'i' had wire tapped a phone...i would still be doing time in prison.

remind me to tell you the story of how one of the officers, a fellow i graduated from high school with, blasted 4-5 rounds out of a tommy gun...up thru the p.d. ceiling and into the (unoccupied) clerk's office, one floor above the p.d.).

"trust" him? not with my life!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:27:14 AM EDT
I voted yes because the Sheriff is a family friend and my sister is an attorney and all the cops know her. If it weren't for that I would probably just be a fence sitter, not going either way.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:48:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:36:48 AM EDT
Ummmm, lessee....Do I trust anyone whose paycheck depends on following orders, and "enforcing the law". Ummmmm, lessee.....
I DO know a few cops in the rural area in which I live. Do I TRUST them.....HELL NO!!
If anyone out there has the illusion that when given an un-constitutional order, cops are gonna toss their badges on the chief's desk, yer nuts. Just witness the Houston incident when 200 cops or so rounded up everyone in a parking lot, "just following orders". If told to round up firearms as part of the "war on terror", or some other lame excuse, they'll do it in a heartbeat. You think they're gonna feed themselves, and their families, or protect your freedom?? Trust 'em?? NOPE!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:59:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 6:01:44 AM EDT by gardenWeasel]

Read the bottom line.

Betcha they are keeping a list.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 7:32:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 7:40:46 AM EDT
I said yes, because my local city's police department (it's a small town, about 8K) is well known to me.  I know every officer on the force and call some of them friends.   There are currently no bad apples on this force but there is one that's not likely to issue a warning instead of a citation...but he's only five feet tall! [:D]
This department also was the first agency in my county to receive state accreditation, several months before the Sheriff's Department.  They know their jobs,  and they do their jobs with a nice blend of courtesy and authority.   But I don't expect them to guard my house...that's my job.

Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:44:58 AM EDT
How can you trust anyone whose basic job is to generate a revenue stream for the village/town/city/state/whatever?  Police are destroying their credibility with the public.

We're in the midst of a "budget crisis" (code for "the liberals want to raise taxes") and yet our local PD can afford brand new Chevy SUVs to patrol in.  I'm not opposed to them updating their fleet, but why SUVs and not the less expensive sedans?  Is it an image thing?  I don't even want to know what kinds of elaborate weaponry and training they are indulging in!  They don't have an armored car yet (that I am aware of), luckily.  I think our local PD could lay off over half its officers and staff and still operate just fine.  The 20mph speed limits don't need to be "strictly enforced."

Keeping this in perspective:  This week, I drove from eastern NC all the way into Lexington, KY and back again.  During the trip, I noticed about a dozen police handing out tickets in NC, none in TN, and none in KY.  Now I know this isn't authoritative nor scientific, but it does seem to corroborate my view that NC is the NJ of the south.  TN and KY had an awful lot of anti-DUI propaganda spewing over the airwaves though.  I have a gut-level reaction to the words "booze it or lose it" and "click it or ticket."  Fuckers.  
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:52:59 AM EDT
not in my hometown, i went to high school with a lot of those fuckwads. grade a assholes all around

in milwaukee, i can't say since I haven't interacted with any of them. based on news stories i've read i'd lean towards no
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:57:50 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 10:08:59 AM EDT
Voted yes for where I now live - Pinellas COunty, FL.  County sheriff & deputies are ok.  Maybe a couple who are a little goofy, but not hostiles.

BUT, I lived in NJ before.  Therefore I am grateful by contrast  for the types of LEO's I've seen in FL.  If I still lived in NJ, the answer would have been a resounding "NO."  I feel sorry for the 25 decent LEO's in NJ; the rest are scumbags/power trippers (75%), dopes (though still on trips) (20%), bureaucrats (4.75%).
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 10:30:57 AM EDT
Here's a little story that I was involved in a year or so ago.

When I was going to school down in Carbondale, Illinois I rented a little cabin on the outskirts of town.  The Cabin was tucked away just off a main road through town.

One morning, about 2:00 a.m. or so, I heard a car pull up the gravel drive real slow and shutoff it's engine.  After 10 or so minutes of silence, I went to the kitchen window to see what was up.  Across the lot, 30 or so yards away I could make out the shape and color of a police car.  The officer in the car had his dome light on and he seemed to writing.  I fugured he was catching up on some paper work so I went back to bed.  When i got up again around 5:30 I looked out the window. the sun was just starting to come up and that cop car was still there.  The guy was sound asleep at the wheel.

This happened several more times over the course of a few months.  I wanted to say or do something so bad, but I was afraid of retaliation so I left it alone.  Then there was news in the paper one morning about a women who was raped and murdered not far from where i live.  At the time of these crimes was one of the mornings this cop was sleeping on the clock in my parking lot.  I was outraged but could really do nothing about it.

Then a few days later, sure enough, the cop is back.  In Carbondale, we had two police departments.  The city Police and University Police.  The guy doing this was a University cop.  I had enough so I called the city police to have them come out and check it out.  The dispatcher didn't believe me.  So I called the University police.  They refused to believe me too.  So I got my still camera out, musted up some courage went outside and started snapping pictures.   i knew the flash would wake him up or get his attention, and I'll admit.   I went back inside.  Then several minutes later, there was a light rapping at my door.  I was scarred shitless.  There was no way I was going to open the door, so I just yelled out that I had called the police and that they know he was there.  Then I heard the screen door shut.  About 5 or so minutes later, another cop car pulled up the drive, but only about half way, turned around and left.  Don't quite know what was up with that.  I figure they didn't want to find anything.  Several minutes after that, the cop other cop left.  that was it.  Call me a chicken shit, but I never really said anything after that.  I had the pictues developed and printed and the came out clear.  You can't make out the identity of the cop.  But the car number is clear.  I did call and talk to the editor of the campus newspaper and they were eager to see them, but I really didn't want to be identified.  

In a way, I was satisfied.  They cop knew he was had, and probably feared for his job.  But I just left it alone.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:05:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 11:12:00 AM EDT by Happyshooter]
My local sheriff is okay...in fact a while ago two cops in the city rammed a guy for being the ex-husband of one of them (they were BF-GF) and driving with his family (new family) in a mini-van. She beat him until she got tired and then the male cop jumped in.

The sheriff's deps came and arrested the cops! They didn't even charge the victim with anything.

Our local (township) police are bad news. Their union ordered harrassment of all CCW license holders; and the union and the chief are in some sort of real conflict with death threats and everything--and the cops are taking it out on the public.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:11:36 AM EDT
Yes, I trust my local law enforcement.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:01:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
I didn't have much of an opinion one way or the other until a couple of years ago when I was stopped going to work early in the AM. I believe the LEO(county) thought I might be a DUI or he was just nosy.  No erratic driving (haven't used alcohol in 12 yrs.)and I wasn't speeding. [red]What bothered me was that he lied and said I had crossed left of center 3 times. I knew it was a lie because One: I hadn't and Two: If I had any good cop would have stopped me the first time I did it not wait for two more times and 2.5 more miles.[/red] He was a real wiseass and when he saw that I hadn't been drinking, it pissed him off and he threatened to give me a "citation." I should have asked for one, plead "not guilty" and asked for a jury trial, thereby costing him and the County time and money. But I didn't, I just kept my cool and went on. I found out later that this jerk did this often, hoping for DUI arrests.
View Quote

One of my best friends is a statey and he does this all the time so he can pull people over and shake them down for drugs. To him it is a sport. I swear sometimes if I hadn't been friends with him for so long before he became a trooper I'd stop talking to him.

One of his other favorite things to do is this: In PA only Philly, Pittsburg and the counties immediately around them require cars to be inspected for emmissions. So my friend sits at the edge of the city and waits for cars that don't have an emmission sticker (which means they are not from anywhere near the city) that are going out from the city then pulls them over for "swerving" and then shakes them down for drugs.

Oh and to top it off this guy has told me flat out that he doesn't think citizens should be allowed to carry guns.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:22:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan:

Oh and to top it off this guy has told me flat out that he doesn't think citizens should be allowed to carry guns.
View Quote

I wasn't carrying at the time as I was traveling from IN to OH but the incident has left me with a lot less confidence in LEOs. I know that he was probably just "one-in-a-thousand" but it really disturbed me.
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