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Posted: 8/20/2004 5:13:23 AM EST
This guy looks like he might actually have some formal training.... note trigger finger...

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:15:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 5:16:17 AM EST by DK-Prof]
you're kidding right???



Armed thugs, nothing more. One thing that seems to be consistent is their lack of understanding of cover and concealement, one of the very basics of military training.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:15:16 AM EST
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:16:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
you're kidding right???



Armed thugs, nothing more.




+1
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:16:49 AM EST
They wouldn't be getting killed by the hundreds if they had any training...
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:16:49 AM EST
Nope stupid fucks with guns is all.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:17:29 AM EST
Among their weapons, they have G3s, FALs, PKs, FPKs, and Dragunovs. If they knew what they were doing, our casualties during engagements would be significant...
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:19:48 AM EST
they are being trained not to mess with the US
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:21:24 AM EST
A few might have a clue, but the rest? NFW. Thugs with guns.

When you have a mindset that DYING FOR YOUR BELIEFS IS THE BEST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU (rather than LIVING for them) it kind of puts the whole thing in perspective, doesn't it?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:21:53 AM EST
NO!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:22:05 AM EST
If they where trained they would have enough sense not to hold up 2000+ members in on location the size of your average hotel.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:23:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:24:13 AM EST
The fact that he is even aiming and not just mag dumping and running for cover is quite impressive. That said, I hope the m-fer didn't live long enough to view this fine photo
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:24:31 AM EST
Hve you seen any footage showing them shooting mortors, hang a round goes off it falls over, then they just set it back over and do it again.

Watch the guys who shoot the RPG, most of them just jump out in to the street and fire the round not aiming at all, sometimes they get lucky and hit something.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:28:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:31:46 AM EST
They are dying at a 500 to 1 clip....NO they arent

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:33:05 AM EST
They watch TV also!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:35:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15



Well said.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:41:14 AM EST
Cmon people.... not 1 ounce of respect? he's got a scope too....
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:44:00 AM EST
After seeing the video of that fucking moron with the Russian PK machine gun walk down a wall firing a long steady burst, then taking himself out with a ricochet from the same wall that is like 5 feet from him, I'd say no. LOL. These people alomost have the mental capacity to be dangerous. Almost.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:44:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:54:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15


Agreed.

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=28856www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/agent1.jpg



The guy on the right looks cold
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:07:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:08:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
After seeing the video of that fucking moron with the Russian PK machine gun walk down a wall firing a long steady burst, then taking himself out with a ricochet from the same wall that is like 5 feet from him, I'd say no. LOL. These people alomost have the mental capacity to be dangerous. Almost.



Got a link?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 6:21:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By gt6plus:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
After seeing the video of that fucking moron with the Russian PK machine gun walk down a wall firing a long steady burst, then taking himself out with a ricochet from the same wall that is like 5 feet from him, I'd say no. LOL. These people alomost have the mental capacity to be dangerous. Almost.



Got a link?



Yep.

www.vampirebat.com/war/shiite_militia_ricochets_self.wmv

Right click on the link, save target as. It's a short segment and only takes a minute to download. However, I think it makes the point.

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:10:31 AM EST
Yes, I think some of them are probably well trained, you should never underestimate the enemy, they definitely have "guts", they have the determination to go against much more powerful military forces
when the odds are against them, they have a different mind set, I have heard most guerilla wars are unwinnable when they have the support of the local people, and most Iraqis hate the USA.

they plan to "out last us" they know as long as they keep fighting we will eventually leave.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:19:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 7:34:54 AM EST by gt6plus]
I've seen that before, I really thought a grenade was lobbed in there or rounds fired in, and whatever hit the ground in front of him was explosive,,, but now it does look like he did himself in,, does it look like his barrel dropped enough to shoot the ground that close to him?

edit to add smiley
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:25:56 AM EST
I think you guys are being silly...if I were an INSURGENT or shit stirrer I'd wear a mask too...it is operational security in my mind...they don't want to be discovered via intel/cameras etc...

That said, I hope we kill everyone of them and bury them in a vat of bacon
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 8:40:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By gt6plus:
I've seen that before, I really thought a grenade was lobbed in there or rounds fired in, and whatever hit the ground in front of him was explosive,,, but now it does look like he did himself in,, does it look like his barrel dropped enough to shoot the ground that close to him?

edit to add smiley



If you stop the video at .02sec you can see incoming stikes on the ground with debris fying towards him. His muzzle is still too high to shoot the deck.

He is taking incoming
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:27:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 9:27:49 AM EST by magnum_99]
Not much effective training anyway.

Agree with DKProf, they seem to lack the ability to comprehend basic cover, concealment, fire and maneuver.

If they could at least shoot their weapons accurately out to 200 yards, and actually planned ambushes, raids and the like, and executed basic small unit tactics, US forces would be taking much more significant casualties.

A friend of mine just returned from over there. Our discussions about this confirm that they are complete tactical morons.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:06:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Not much effective training anyway.

Agree with DKProf, they seem to lack the ability to comprehend basic cover, concealment, fire and maneuver.

If they could at least shoot their weapons accurately out to 200 yards, and actually planned ambushes, raids and the like, and executed basic small unit tactics, US forces would be taking much more significant casualties.

A friend of mine just returned from over there. Our discussions about this confirm that they are complete tactical morons.



I wonder how they keep fighting without re-supply? seems like they would run out of RPG's & morter rds? since they dont have a steady supply line like the Vietnamese communists via the "Ho chi Minh Trail".
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:24:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Thunderbolt:
Yes, I think some of them are probably well trained, you should never underestimate the enemy, they definitely have "guts", they have the determination to go against much more powerful military forces
when the odds are against them, they have a different mind set, I have heard most guerilla wars are unwinnable when they have the support of the local people, and most Iraqis hate the USA.

they plan to "out last us" they know as long as they keep fighting we will eventually leave.



Most Iraqis do not hate us. They either like us or at worst are indifferent to us.
Al-Sadr is actually pretty unpopular amongst mainstream Iraqis. He is considered a young, hot-headed firebrand. His followers are usually un-employed, ex-Iraqi army types. Most Iraqis like Al-Sistani, the older, more moderate cleric. While he doesn't really like the West, he is indifferent and understands why we did the things we did.

A lot of the fighters we kill turn out to be foreign Jihadists. A lot of Iranians, Syrians, and Saudis. Zarquewi is Jordanian. When my MP CO. was over there, we noticed that our prisoners would group themselves. You put a prisoner in the cage, and they would either go to one group or another group. After we started to interview people, we found out the bigger group were Syrians and they don't get along with Iraqis.

Point is, don't make the mistake of grouping all the Iraqis in with these Mahdi Militia guys. These Militia guys are very much in the minority, and are either criminals, hot-headed individuals, or foriegners.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:25:07 AM EST
I wonder how many of them are really trying to stay alive in confrontations really. I have no formal training (yet). But even I know to take cover where it can be found and not stand in an open street or hill top to be shot dead as soon as I'm seen. Nor would I consider attacking armor with small arms on bikes as they did in the early days. Some of the stuff they have pulled makes me wonder if chimps with guns would fight better.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:26:57 AM EST

Do you think the Mehdi fighters in Najaf are well trained?


I think I've listed my (lack of) training here before.....but I'm completely confident I could take at least 10 of them out before they got me. I didn't have to pay anyone to teach me a few pearls they have missed, such as:


1) use sights
2) use cover
3) never stop in the middle of a street to reload.

you get the idea.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:35:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 10:36:08 AM EST by Grunteled]

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Do you think the Mehdi fighters in Najaf are well trained?


I think I've listed my (lack of) training here before.....but I'm completely confident I could take at least 10 of them out before they got me. I didn't have to pay anyone to teach me a few pearls they have missed, such as:


1) use sights
2) use cover
3) never stop in the middle of a street to reload.

you get the idea.



Sights.... I forgot that one. I can't count how many videos of "insurgents" fighting US forces have featured the following.

- Moron points weapon held without shouldering in general direction of sounds of gunfire.
- Moron proceeds to dump said unshouldered weapon in long burst or two.
- Dance in open street and yell in gibberish.
- Reload, repeat

Seriously a chimpanzee with an AK could be as effective.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:55:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 10:56:02 AM EST by mindtrix]

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:

Originally Posted By gt6plus:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
After seeing the video of that fucking moron with the Russian PK machine gun walk down a wall firing a long steady burst, then taking himself out with a ricochet from the same wall that is like 5 feet from him, I'd say no. LOL. These people alomost have the mental capacity to be dangerous. Almost.



Got a link?



Yep.

www.vampirebat.com/war/shiite_militia_ricochets_self.wmv




Looks like someone is shooting back at him... I don't think it was a ricochet

Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:56:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:33:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 11:34:00 AM EST by magnum_99]

Originally Posted By Thunderbolt:

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Not much effective training anyway.

Agree with DKProf, they seem to lack the ability to comprehend basic cover, concealment, fire and maneuver.

If they could at least shoot their weapons accurately out to 200 yards, and actually planned ambushes, raids and the like, and executed basic small unit tactics, US forces would be taking much more significant casualties.

A friend of mine just returned from over there. Our discussions about this confirm that they are complete tactical morons.



I wonder how they keep fighting without re-supply? seems like they would run out of RPG's & morter rds? since they dont have a steady supply line like the Vietnamese communists via the "Ho chi Minh Trail".




Apparently there were huge stashes of weapons and ordnance all over the place left over from Saddam's regime.

Most of that stuff if now probably hidden in "holy sites" and mosques. Also, I believe that a large percentage of the fighters are foreign, and that arms are coming in from Iran, Lebanon, and Syria.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:52:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15


Agreed.

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=28856www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/agent1.jpg



+1
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:03:07 PM EST
Firing their weapons in the middle of the street without cover, from the hip, and barefooted shows the kind of training they have. They are stupid asses that deserve what they get.

When i see pics of them fighting in their "dresses" and barefooted or in sandals, it makes me laugh.



Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:08:37 PM EST
The ones you don't see out in the middle of the street, who seem to survive the rockets, bombs, artillery, small arms and sniper fire are the Ex-Iraqi Army troops. They're the ones with buttstocks on their weapons and notches in the buttstocks. Don't under estimate the enemy. The rest are a bunch of rubes, aka cannon fodder.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:16:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
The ones you don't see out in the middle of the street, who seem to survive the rockets, bombs, artillery, small arms and sniper fire are the Ex-Iraqi Army troops. They're the ones with buttstocks on their weapons and notches in the buttstocks. Don't under estimate the enemy. The rest are a bunch of rubes, aka cannon fodder.



For certain. They may even be a sort of bullet magnent. They go out in the streets by the droves drawing fire while the ones who can shoot take out a few US troops where they can from cover. Clueless sandel wearer gets 72 virgins, while army guy avoids bullets in his ass. Good for both!

Since most of the deaths are from IEDs (I'm hearing) I just don't think the fighters are effective at all as riflemen. Not to say you laugh them off but they are not effective, they have had their asses waxed every time they engaged ground forces with small arms.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:20:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15



Nah, mask doesn't mean coward, it means smart enough to hide your face so you don't get hauled out of bed at three in the morning in your pajamas. I don't have a particular problem with "insurgents" fighting our forces. I do have problems with them blowing up civilians and innocents. But fighting us, pffft, bring it on......

But these yayhoos aren't trained, it seems like every video'd engagement I've seen has been a pure "spray and pray" deal. I've heard anecdotal evidence that by nature the hajiis do not use aimed fire that much.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:46:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Also note the mask.


Mask=coward.


SGtar15



Nah, mask doesn't mean coward, it means smart enough to hide your face so you don't get hauled out of bed at three in the morning in your pajamas. I don't have a particular problem with "insurgents" fighting our forces. I do have problems with them blowing up civilians and innocents. But fighting us, pffft, bring it on......

But these yayhoos aren't trained, it seems like every video'd engagement I've seen has been a pure "spray and pray" deal. I've heard anecdotal evidence that by nature the hajiis do not use aimed fire that much.



maybe the videos that you have seen are staged for the camerman, thats why you never see them aiming? they could just be propaganda footage for the general public too see, to make the fighters appear "brave and fearless" and look like determined fighters on camera.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:49:08 PM EST
I'd be surprised to learn that they are potty-trained!
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