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Posted: 10/10/2005 11:05:26 AM EDT
Anyone who's been on GD for a while knows that "excessive force" threads appears quite often here, along with "Police shoot dog at wrong house" threads.  While they always turn out to be shitstorms, one thing is certain - asking police to police themselves is foolhardy.  Moreover, this is a point our Founding Fathers would have wholeheartedly agreed with.  The system they created had "interest checking interest" as I believe Madison put it.  No one was allowed to police themselves because the Founders knew that human nature prevents such a system from working properly.  Its the old problem of who watches the watchers.  

Therefore, in order to combat what seems to be an inordinante amount of police brutality/screw-up claims, I suggest that we create an entity which polices the police with the same powers and tactics by which the they police the citizenry.  My proposed Federal Bureau of Police Misconduct (FBPM) would therefore have the following attributes.

(1) Its SOLE reason for existence would be to investigate abuse of power, brutality, and other threats to the population from the actions of law enforcement.  Therefore, unless it uncovers evidence of such abuse its budget would be cut and officers fired.

(2) Part of its income would be in the form of fines and asset seizures from officers convicted of brutality or other serious misconduct.  Accompanying the agency would be new laws authorizing the seizure of personel assets of police officers convicted of brutality, or negligence leading to the violation of civil rights (i.e no-knocks at the wrong address) to pay the accompanying fines.  Personal assets would also be seized to pay the cost of incarceration for convicted officers.

(3) As the persons being investigated would naturally be armed and dangerous, no-knocks would regularly be authorized to bring in suspected violators.  If convicted, violators would be placed in a federal penitentary outside their state of residence, both to ensure the protection of the officer and to ensure no preferential treatment given to the officers.  

Discuss.  


PS.  Before the ad hominem attacks begin, I've never been arrested, never wanted to be a cop, and I have several friends with the FBI and one at the DA's office.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:08:46 AM EDT
Yes, and it should be operated my the dopers, crack heads and meth users now being hired by the FBI.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:20:36 AM EDT
Nope, all you're doing is creating yet another agency. One that would get full of itself and corrupt pretty damn quickly in my estimation.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 11:22:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
Nope, all you're doing is creating yet another agency. One that would get full of itself and corrupt pretty damn quickly in my estimation.



But how would that be possible?  After all, they'd only be using methods currently used by LEO's against the general population.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:22:30 PM EDT
There is already a fedreal agency that investigates complaints of civil rights abuse, FBI
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:24:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
Nope, all you're doing is creating yet another agency. One that would get full of itself and corrupt pretty damn quickly in my estimation.



Fool, the obvious answer is then create the Federal Bureau of Federal Bureau Police Misconduct Police
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:26:29 PM EDT
Oh Hell naw!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:26:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:27:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By dport:
Nope, all you're doing is creating yet another agency. One that would get full of itself and corrupt pretty damn quickly in my estimation.



Fool, the obvious answer is then create the Federal Bureau of Federal Bureau Police Misconduct Police


Fool, who would watch them?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:29:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By NimmerMehr:

Originally Posted By dport:
Nope, all you're doing is creating yet another agency. One that would get full of itself and corrupt pretty damn quickly in my estimation.



Fool, the obvious answer is then create the Federal Bureau of Federal Bureau Police Misconduct Police


Fool, who would watch them?



You are no good at this bureaucracy thing.

The Federal Bureau of Federal Bureau Police of Federal Bureau Police Misconduct Police Police, duh!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 6:40:58 PM EDT
It's called Internal Affairs.  Every department has one, and most do an effective job.

New Orleans' Internal Affairs was augmented by FBI agents who were investigating NOPD cops left and right.  They even had an office on NOPD property.

And please know that for every "police beating" you see on TV, ten police officers are beaten or killed by a crook.

Quit villifying them, and respect them and what they do for society.

Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:04:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 8:42:10 PM EDT by Scott574]
Ok, I'll play even though your post was satirical.

From the wisdom that is Arfcom I've learned that JBT's are civilians too, and should not get any special benefits that are not awarded to the public. Taking this as an internet fact, then how do you justify giving them a punishment that is not awarded to the public....ie: personal asset forfeiture. Is this not a double standard violating the first tenet of Arfcom JBT equality logic?

How about we make asset forfeiture available for everybody. You brutalize me, invade my home, or otherwise deny me my civil rights then I get your car, house, or half your pension. Sounds fair to me.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:11:31 PM EDT
Yeah, that's be great...another bloated bueracracy. Especially one that strips oversight powers for local law enforcement from local governments and gives it to federal government. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:20:35 PM EDT
Who would police your new police force ?  

Gonna hire robots or accept applications from current police/sheriff/state/federal LE officers ?

The point is you cannot anymore police the cops than any other profession out there.   We have to hire from the "Pool of humanity", that means people.   We screen them, background them, test them, psych them, poly them and train them.  

Some still turn out bad.  

It happens.

Get over it.  
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:23:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scott574:
Ok, I'll play even though your post was satirical.

From the wisdom that is Arfcom I've learned that JBT's are civilians too, and should not get any special benefits that are not awarded to the public. Taking this as fact, then how do you justify giving them a punishment that is not awarded to the public....ie: personal asset forfeiture. Is this not a double standard violating the first tenet of Arfcom JBT equality logic?

How about we make asset forfeiture available to everybody. You brutalize me, invade my home, or otherwise deny me my civil rights then I get your car, house, or half your pension. Sounds fair to me.



Think of it this way, if you tie the cops hands too much, they won't believe it is worth laying their life on the line, go down that dark alley, get the drug dealer in your neighborhood, or stop the child molesters.  

I think the classic line is, be careful what you wish for........
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 8:50:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 8:52:33 PM EDT by SgtWhiting]
Let me be frank.

I am a long time LEO.  
This job is not the psychologically best job to have.  
Nor the best paid.  
I get paid to run to danger when everyone else's response is to run away from danger.
Because some people, some courts, some attorney's, and worse yet, some legislaters make my job more and more restrictive each day, it becomes harder and still harder to catch the bad guy and take him off the street.   Oh, they mean well enough, "It's for the kids "; or "This will save cops lives !", or "Make the world safer".  My personal favorite "Miranda Vs. Arizona"  I basically have to beg a person to shut up before I can get him to admit or confess his crime.  Here is a thought, shut the fuck up already !  Gee wiz opie.  The latest is no profiling.   Jesus, give me a break.   If I see a 100,000 car in a poor black neighborhood with a black gang member looking gentleman driving it, I'm pulling it over for whatever I can find.   That is not profiling, that is just stupid crooks doing what they do and cops seeing it for what it is.   No racial stuff.   Just law enforcement at it's best.        

After a while, it is easy to become cynical, over burdened and after a few years you bring a "I don't give a shit" attitude.     I learned early on you can't save people from themselves.  

After more than 27 years on the job, this is where I am at today.

Think of it as a 2 X 2 foot room with a 30 foot high ceiling.   Not much room to work.  Near the top of one wall, there is a 1 foot hole.   On the floor is balled up newspaper.   My job is to kick the balls high enough up they go into the hole.    Now, I can't kick one into the hole everyday, or even in a week or a month.   Sometimes not even in a year.   But, every once and a while, just every so often, I get one into the hole.   Then it is still all worth it.

If you take that away, if you "the people" heap us all into the same pit of those of us who aren't doing their jobs correctly, ie lump us all together, that is the day we will not go down that dark alley, or stop that suspicious car, or chase that drug dealer from your neighborhood, because it will no longer be worth it.

Then where will the sheep be without the sheep dogs ?

ETA:   By the way, it has been my experience that a good cops hates a dirty cop more than you, the general public.   I know it seems like the crooks guarding the bank, but either you trust us or you don't.  

Which is it ?
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:01:52 PM EDT
I was gonna put some input into this thread but then i realised it's like asking the Supreme court judges to voluntarily put "term limits" on their service. Ain't gonna happen, and there is too much entrenched power to ever make it happen. oh well C'est le vie. (pardon my french)
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:42:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 9:42:52 PM EDT by TheSneak]

Originally Posted By Scott574:
Ok, I'll play even though your post was satirical.

From the wisdom that is Arfcom I've learned that JBT's are civilians too, and should not get any special benefits that are not awarded to the public. Taking this as an internet fact, then how do you justify giving them a punishment that is not awarded to the public....ie: personal asset forfeiture. Is this not a double standard violating the first tenet of Arfcom JBT equality logic?

How about we make asset forfeiture available for everybody. You brutalize me, invade my home, or otherwise deny me my civil rights then I get your car, house, or half your pension. Sounds fair to me.



Eh?  Regular Joe Schmoes get their personal assets sued away/confiscated all the time!
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:52:18 PM EDT

And please know that for every "police beating" you see on TV, ten police officers are beaten or killed by a crook


And for every 'beating' you see on TV there are a hundred you dont see.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 9:58:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/10/2005 9:59:30 PM EDT by Scott574]

Originally Posted By TheSneak:

Originally Posted By Scott574:
Ok, I'll play even though your post was satirical.

From the wisdom that is Arfcom I've learned that JBT's are civilians too, and should not get any special benefits that are not awarded to the public. Taking this as an internet fact, then how do you justify giving them a punishment that is not awarded to the public....ie: personal asset forfeiture. Is this not a double standard violating the first tenet of Arfcom JBT equality logic?

How about we make asset forfeiture available for everybody. You brutalize me, invade my home, or otherwise deny me my civil rights then I get your car, house, or half your pension. Sounds fair to me.



Eh?  Regular Joe Schmoes get their personal assets sued away/confiscated all the time!



True. Usually involving a civil action by a plaintiff or thru the State following a narcotics arrest/conviction which follows a very specific set of guidelines. The original post refered to forfeiture for "brutality or other misconduct". Misconduct is a very open-ended definition, what you consider misconduct may not even be a criminal offense under State or Federal statute. A civil suit is a distinct possibily in these circumstances, but forfeiture initiated by the State is taking it to whole new level of punishment.
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