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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/4/2005 10:19:32 AM EDT
Do other religions besides Islam still call for holy wars. I know that at some point most of the older religions called for holy war at one time or another. Being a history and education major I am intimatly familiar with the crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. But have any other religions called for holy war in modern times. Why do Christain leaders and followers stand by and watch thier faithfull be slaughtered by Muslim hoards in Africa and Asia. It seems like christians should ban together to protect thier flock. I know that the original crusades were a travisty of stupidity and ignorance. But it seems like the churches should at least send finances to help thier flock protect themselves from the new hoards of islam.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:27:03 AM EDT
I can't think of any other than Islam.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:29:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 10:30:14 AM EDT by david_g17]
i read this the other day:
answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm

it's interesting especially this quote regarding the crusades (note the author is making a comparisson between Jesus and Mohammad):



Christ never, ever engaged in such violence. For example, he never assassinated opponents, whipped adulterers, cut off the hands of thieves, or launched his own Crusades (what the Medieval Europeans did is not foundational to Christianity). Christ expresses the love of God.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:40:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By david_g17:
i read this the other day:
answering-islam.org.uk/Authors/Arlandson/ten_reasons.htm

it's interesting especially this quote regarding the crusades (note the author is making a comparisson between Jesus and Mohammad):



Christ never, ever engaged in such violence. For example, he never assassinated opponents, whipped adulterers, cut off the hands of thieves, or launched his own Crusades (what the Medieval Europeans did is not foundational to Christianity). Christ expresses the love of God.


That opinion was expressed by a history professor of mine. But I find that opinion foolish because It seems foolish to stand by and let your flock be killed. For every christian follower killed in a devoloping country a muslim follower will be born. With every muslim follower born more christians will face the sword. Does the christian religeon expressly forbid helping their followers fight for rightousness against their religeous enemies?
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:45:06 AM EDT
Is fighting to help your faithful against earthly enemies considered anti christian. Do the christian religeons preach to turn the other cheek on your enemies. It would seem to be kind of counter productive to allow your followers to be killed.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:53:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:
Is fighting to help your faithful against earthly enemies considered anti christian. Do the christian religeons preach to turn the other cheek on your enemies. It would seem to be kind of counter productive to allow your followers to be killed.



It really depends on the beliefs of your sect of Christianity. To some any violence is anathema, to others we have a duty, not just a right, to protect our lives.

The Catholic Church has recognized a right to self defense and while I may not be a Catholic, the Pope usually has a pretty good head on his shoulders.

I think the message in the Bible is unclear (people post verses that support their position, and ignore th e ones that weaken it)



Link Posted: 8/4/2005 10:59:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2005 11:00:34 AM EDT by bloodmoon]

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:
Is fighting to help your faithful against earthly enemies considered anti christian. Do the christian religeons preach to turn the other cheek on your enemies. It would seem to be kind of counter productive to allow your followers to be killed.



It really depends on the beliefs of your sect of Christianity. To some any violence is anathema, to others we have a duty, not just a right, to protect our lives.

The Catholic Church has recognized a right to self defense and while I may not be a Catholic, the Pope usually has a pretty good head on his shoulders.

I think the message in the Bible is unclear (people post verses that support their position, and ignore th e ones that weaken it)

It seems like a good idea to defend yourself but how about defending your faith.
It seems like the Catholic Church should send weapons and trainers into religeous warzones to help defend their flock.

Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:03:50 AM EDT
The US and Israel gave a lot a of guns to Christians in Lebanon during their civil war.

But I dont think that would count as a holy war.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 11:20:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:

It seems like a good idea to defend yourself but how about defending your faith.
It seems like the Catholic Church should send weapons and trainers into religeous warzones to help defend their flock.



Paul defended the faith with reason.

Sometimes he took a pretty good whuppin' for it, and he narrowly avoided a couple attempts on his life.

Within a contemporary context, we are indeed in a religious war. The enemy has made it so. I would readily take up arms to defend my nation and family, and my faith is woven throughout the big picture.
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 12:04:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bloodmoon:
Is fighting to help your faithful against earthly enemies considered anti christian. Do the christian religeons preach to turn the other cheek on your enemies. It would seem to be kind of counter productive to allow your followers to be killed.



don't underestimate our ally
Link Posted: 8/4/2005 7:23:13 PM EDT
I'll catch hell for it, but you asked.

Until recently, Roman Catholics in Irelend called for and carried out a
rather bloody Holy War in the UK.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:05:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
I'll catch hell for it, but you asked.

Until recently, Roman Catholics in Irelend called for and carried out a
rather bloody Holy War in the UK.



thats a vast oversimplification of the issue.

Its like blaming the Revolutionary War on conflicts between Anglicans and Congregationalists.

Link Posted: 8/5/2005 5:20:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2005 5:24:10 AM EDT by TexasSIG]

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By TexasSIG:
I'll catch hell for it, but you asked.

Until recently, Roman Catholics in Irelend called for and carried out a
rather bloody Holy War in the UK.



thats a vast oversimplification of the issue.

Its like blaming the Revolutionary War on conflicts between Anglicans and Congregationalists.




Not as much as you would think. And, the Catholics will be happy to hear that this one was
pretty much fueled by Protestants.

Read this from Martin Luther’s 1523 treatise, Secular Authority: “If your opponent is your equal, your inferior, or of a foreign government, you should first offer him justice and peace, as Moses taught the children of Israel. If he is unwilling, then use your best strategy and defend yourself by force against force . . . . And in such a war it is a Christian act and an act of love confidently to kill, rob, and pillage the enemy, and to do everything that can injure him until one has conquered him according to the methods of war . . . . Such happenings must be considered as sent of God, that He may now and then cleanse the land and drive out the knaves”.

Luther was of course not the first to endorse warfare as God’s instrument to “drive out the knaves”. Thanks to the earlier teachings of Sts. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas, the Catholic Church had long embraced the belief that a “just war” was in accord with God’s will. And as the above passage graphically illustrates, the belief in just war made its way unchanged from Catholic to mainstream Protestant Christianity. If anything, in calling the faithful to “rob and pillage” the enemy, not just kill him, Luther went beyond the teachings of Augustine and Aquinas. Thus, the holy war of the Crusades did not disappear in the West but was only transmuted into support for a so-called just war.

So there ya go, Christian sanctioned Holy War. That unfortunate mess certainly has morphed in
recent years into Catholic atheist vs Protestand atheist and by that I mean it moved from a
real Holy War into a war where all that mattered was what team you were on, with no
concept of God on either side. However, it did not originally start out that way, and is an
example of Church doctrine to some extent sanctioning a Holy War.

And the original post asked for churches that "still" call for Holy War. I am not certain
you can say they WON'T, just that right now they are NOT.
Link Posted: 8/5/2005 3:12:27 PM EDT
There IS a Christian Holy War!!!


It's a book by John Bunyan

And it's an allegory. It's about the struggle for dominance over the city of ManSoul. Great book and very helpful to read.
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