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Posted: 9/8/2004 11:00:11 PM EST
I always thought they did until I saw this website, now I don’t know what to think.

www.ci.milpitas.ca.gov/citydept/police/faq.htm

Traffic is one of Milpitas' most pressing problems. You only need to try to drive through town during the commute, or at lunch time. The officers do not have "quotas" and, as a matter of fact, quotas are illegal. They are charged with writing citations as means of educating the motorist that they have done something wrong, just as if your boss disciplines you at work for a policy violation. If you receive a citation you have three options to take care of it. 1) Pay the fine. 2) Appear in court. 3) Attend traffic school. If traffic school is offered as an option, the citation will be dismissed and will not appear on your driving record. This might be important when your insurance renews. Will you win in court? Maybe. Our officers may be disciplined if they don't appear in court, so expect the officer to be there. Also, most officers have appeared a number of times and are good at making a presentation.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:02:20 PM EST
They have"acceptable levels of work".

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:04:48 PM EST
no
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:05:41 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:10:11 PM EST
Sometimes I write 2 or 3 traffic citations in a 10 hour shift.
Sometimes I write that many in about a month.
No quotas, I'm to busy taking out of control juvenile reports where the 13 year old girl has been gone for 3 days, or vehicle burglary reports or vehicle theft reports or residential burglary reports or traffic collision reports or "I lost my cell phone and need a report for the insurance" reports orspousal abuse reports or attempted murder reports or missing person reports or petty theft reports or under the influence reports or possession of Methamphetamine reports or unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor reports or battery reports or arresting people for any of these crimes and driving them to jail.

Don't often have a lot of time to write traffic citations.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:17:53 PM EST
some depts do
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:22:56 PM EST
How the hell do you think I got this stack of toasters????????
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:25:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
How the hell do you think I got this stack of toasters????????



You didn't earn the blender yet? Slacker....

S.O.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:25:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 11:26:28 PM EST by sherrick13]
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:27:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By repub18:
some depts do



Yup....and they get bitch slapped if they don't meet them
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:29:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 11:32:20 PM EST
Donut quota maybe....
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:37:05 AM EST
As was once said to me by a chp buddy, "no, I just LOVE giving out more tickets at the end of the month"

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:52:41 AM EST
Cops don't have quotas. But they DO have to look like they are enforcing the law. Whether LE admits to it or not, a lot of departments have an "expected" number of tickets they are supposed to write.

I get this from several officers I know. To advance, you must prove you are enforcing the law. This means giving tickets to a lot of guys....
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:10:46 AM EST
I know for a fact that a small town near me has "requirements" of 2 tickets PER DAY. (Yes, it's a speedtrap). My sister worked for that department as a dispatcher, and overheard the mayor and chief tell the two deputies that if there weren't 2 tickets per day, there would be a vacancy in the department because the village couldn't operate it's force without the ticket revenue.

What do you call that? Quota. Illegal, and a quota.

Do all departments have them? I suspect to some degree even if it's implied, but a traffic cop that doesn't write tickets will not be a cop for long.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:27:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By swingset:
I know for a fact that a small town near me has "requirements" of 2 tickets PER DAY. (Yes, it's a speedtrap). My sister worked for that department as a dispatcher, and overheard the mayor and chief tell the two deputies that if there weren't 2 tickets per day, there would be a vacancy in the department because the village couldn't operate it's force without the ticket revenue.

What do you call that? Quota. Illegal, and a quota.

Do all departments have them? I suspect to some degree even if it's implied, but a traffic cop that doesn't write tickets will not be a cop for long.



Just the way I've always been told by LEO buddies. Some department are more strict than others. The small township near My work is a BIT*H about them mid/end-month.

Tall Shadow
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:33:27 AM EST
Our standard traffic nazi answer: No, we don't have quotas. We can write as many tickets as we want.

Cute.

Officers assigned to our traffic branch are out there to write tickets first. They don't take runs. Since it is their job, it is not unreasonable to expect them to see one traffic violation an hour. That's their goal. 8 tickets a working day. So if an officer assigned to traffic works 20 days a month, they are supposed to have written 160 tickets. Yes it is a quota, just like a person working in a factory is supposed to turn out so many pieces for each hour worked.

The only difference is that the factory worker isn't stealing money out of your pocket to finance local government greed. Damn I hate traffic tickets.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:45:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:55:32 AM EST
DONUTS! only for DONUTS!
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:04:49 AM EST
We have no quotas. We have all of the officers arrests (criminal and traffic) posted on the board. Some people have 1 & 1, some have 10 & 9, it just depends. I think the average for August was 4.5 for traffic and 3 for criminal. I try to fall somewhere in the middle, but try to be above average. I work nights, so I make a lot more criminal arrests than traffic.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:33:22 AM EST
No Quota: I can give out as many as I want!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:58:09 AM EST
1 an hour??? the way some people drive around here you could fill a book a day.

Small towns it might be tough, even hicks learn after a while and if there isn't a lot of out of towners the locals are going to make sure the Mayor and the Chief get the message.

But if you live in at least a moderately sized city, keep yur eyes open see how many good ones you could write. Besides if we are employing a traffic officer we want to get our moneys worth out of him (oh yeah and out of you
)
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:06:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
"performance objectives" that show up in your evals...



Bingo....
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:12:16 AM EST
It's ridiculous of you even to imply that the friendly neighborhood traffic enforcement officer would have any motivation to pull you over other than public safety.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:21:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 3:22:49 AM EST by Merrell]

Originally Posted By swingset:
I know for a fact that a small town near me has "requirements" of 2 tickets PER DAY. (Yes, it's a speedtrap). My sister worked for that department as a dispatcher, and overheard the mayor and chief tell the two deputies that if there weren't 2 tickets per day, there would be a vacancy in the department because the village couldn't operate it's force without the ticket revenue.

What do you call that? Quota. Illegal, and a quota.

Do all departments have them? I suspect to some degree even if it's implied, but a traffic cop that doesn't write tickets will not be a cop for long.



yup, Ohio is notorious for "aggressive & creative enforcement" (as are certain townships in PA)

perhaps the worst offender was New Rome

WV has the well-known Summersville speed trap a town of 3000 writing 18,000 tickets a year and where Burger King employees are deputized to take down speeding grandmas.

I have nothing against citations for legitimately hazardous driving, "speed traps" and officers flaunting the law they are supposed to enforce (re: the PA troopers who were clocked time & time again transporting Gov. Rendell at 100 MPH+ when there was no emergency - did they lose their licenses or get a ticket? Not a chance) do nothing but destroy repsect the public has for law enforcement.

We have a local township that is considering disbanding their force because everyone knows the place is a speed trap and now they "don't generate enough revenue" to keep their force employed (people avoid the town altogether).

Speed traps & quotas are a sleazy way to collect taxes.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:28:00 AM EST

When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only. Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors.

My goal is one felony arrest a shift. Typically Possession of stolen property, auto theft, burglary, or narcotics sales, with an occasional domestic violence thrown in. It's not a quota, its a minimum performace standard I place on myself.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:32:33 AM EST
We utilize performance objectives, which consist of a tally of: tickets, arrests, civil papers, warrants executed, etc. You can have a slow month, but a prolonged trend of low numbers will get you on the carpet. This has been a slow summer for me ticket wise, so I need to pick up my activity level in the other areas soon or I'll be on the carpet.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:38:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
When I was a new guy, my goal was one arrest a shift. Felony, Misdemanor, or warrant, it didnt matter. that was too easy a standard. Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least. So I quit counting warrant arrests and decided street charges only. Well working midnights, it's awful damn easy to find a DUI every night, so I quit counting misdemeanors.

My goal is one felony arrest a shift. Typically Possession of stolen property, auto theft, burglary, or narcotics sales, with an occasional domestic violence thrown in. It's not a quota, its a minimum performace standard I place on myself.


Good to see an officer challenge themselves; just how big is your patrol area/ population base that you are that busy with that level of offense?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:38:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least.



while that may be true in practice, doesn't it run counter to presumption of innocence?

I have no problem if a motorist is pulled over for a legitimate traffic violation (the key here is legitimate, I know there are catch-alls that can be used an an excuse to pull anyone over), then if there is a warrant, great, toss him/her in the pokey.

What does trouble me deeply are random checkpoints (usually called "DUI checkpoints" to garner soccer mom support) which may be great PR, but utterly trample the rights to free and unimpeded travel. (btw, the last checkpoint I was stopped at was in rural Virginia at 2 in the afternoon last year, they never did say what it was for - all my papers being in order and nothing illegal on my person, in my car or bloodstream, I was permitted to go my way)

Nobody complains about a legitimate stop, (nobody should, anyway) but some places exist just to lighten the wallet of the unwary traveler.

One would think an officer's goal should be to apprehend those breaking the law, some days it might be ten, some days it might be zero. Cuffing one bad guy a day seems "quota-ish" Rather like a Doctor saying "I will save one heart-attack patient per day" After he saves the first one, does he knock off for the rest of the day? Does he go looking for likely victims and scare them "BOO!" if he has not saved anyone and his shift is almost over?

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:40:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least.



while that may be true in practice, doesn't it run counter to presumption of innocence?



He is saying thats the per centage of people with warrants he finds on traffic stops. He isn't talking about checkpoints, etc.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:58:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least.



while that may be true in practice, doesn't it run counter to presumption of innocence?



He is saying thats the per centage of people with warrants he finds on traffic stops. He isn't talking about checkpoints, etc.



Right. Criminals have to move from one place to another. A good way to intercept them is to use traffic stops. Unfortunately innocent people are sometimes stopped. People get pissed. I can't blame them, but criminals usually try not to stand out from every one else.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:00:53 AM EST
Depends on the department. Here in Wichita they must average 1 ticket a day, to show that they are keeping up with the practice of how to approach a car. But that is not a quota.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:04:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By rn45:
Right. Criminals have to move from one place to another. A good way to intercept them is to use traffic stops. Unfortunately innocent people are sometimes stopped. People get pissed. I can't blame them, but criminals usually try not to stand out from every one else.



Understood (and from a practical matter, probably as efficient as any method) but troubling in that rights are being sacrificed to meet a goal (ends justify the means argument)

Difficult problem.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:22:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By rn45:
Right. Criminals have to move from one place to another. A good way to intercept them is to use traffic stops. Unfortunately innocent people are sometimes stopped. People get pissed. I can't blame them, but criminals usually try not to stand out from every one else.



Understood (and from a practical matter, probably as efficient as any method) but troubling in that rights are being sacrificed to meet a goal (ends justify the means argument)

Difficult problem.



How is anyones rights being sacrificed by an officer conducting a traffic stop and determining that the driver or vehicle occupant is wanted?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:27:12 AM EST
My dad was a cop for a long time, and I asked him the same question once.

His answer was, in short, yes, but they aren't called "quotas". They are called "preformance standards" or something like that; i.e., an on the ball cop should write "X" amount of tickets, etc.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:29:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Stop 10 cars, two of the drivers will have a warrant, at least.



while that may be true in practice, doesn't it run counter to presumption of innocence?

I have no problem if a motorist is pulled over for a legitimate traffic violation (the key here is legitimate, I know there are catch-alls that can be used an an excuse to pull anyone over), then if there is a warrant, great, toss him/her in the pokey.

What does trouble me deeply are random checkpoints (usually called "DUI checkpoints" to garner soccer mom support) which may be great PR, but utterly trample the rights to free and unimpeded travel. (btw, the last checkpoint I was stopped at was in rural Virginia at 2 in the afternoon last year, they never did say what it was for - all my papers being in order and nothing illegal on my person, in my car or bloodstream, I was permitted to go my way)

Nobody complains about a legitimate stop, (nobody should, anyway) but some places exist just to lighten the wallet of the unwary traveler.

One would think an officer's goal should be to apprehend those breaking the law, some days it might be ten, some days it might be zero. Cuffing one bad guy a day seems "quota-ish" Rather like a Doctor saying "I will save one heart-attack patient per day" After he saves the first one, does he knock off for the rest of the day? Does he go looking for likely victims and scare them "BOO!" if he has not saved anyone and his shift is almost over?




I don't think that ignores the presumption of ignorance.

I think it is a statistic.

TXL
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:30:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By rn45:
Right. Criminals have to move from one place to another. A good way to intercept them is to use traffic stops. Unfortunately innocent people are sometimes stopped. People get pissed. I can't blame them, but criminals usually try not to stand out from every one else.



Understood (and from a practical matter, probably as efficient as any method) but troubling in that rights are being sacrificed to meet a goal (ends justify the means argument)

Difficult problem.



How is anyones rights being sacrificed by an officer conducting a traffic stop and determining that the driver or vehicle occupant is wanted?



Team jumping to conclusions, has ASS-U-me-d that 10 people are getting randomly stopped for NO reason.

You have to put a disclaimer in for the simpletons.

If an officer legally stops 10 people, based on PC, there is a likelyhood that some of those people stopped will have warrants, or be committing more serious offenses than just the traffic violation that the officer stopped them from.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:32:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By AbominableNo-Man:
My dad was a cop for a long time, and I asked him the same question once.

His answer was, in short, yes, but they aren't called "quotas". They are called "preformance standards" or something like that; i.e., an on the ball cop should write "X" amount of tickets, etc.



Name one job that doesn't have "performance standards"? Pretty tough for the boss to say we expect a certain amount of work from you. I can't define what exactly the word work means, or what certain amount entails.................................
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:35:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:46:38 AM EST
When asked, "Are you trying to make your quota today?" My reply is nope, I met it already and this one is just for fun.
We actually write up our own personal performance standard, so we can do what we like to do.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:47:53 AM EST
I always liked the old joke:

motorist getting a ticket: "What's the matter, haven't met your quota for the month?"

trooper: "Oh, we don't have quotas for tickets anymore...we can give out as many as we want to!"
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 5:36:17 AM EST
All departments have quotas, but it more sophisticated than a simple quota system to get around the legality issue. It may be hidden and disguised, but it is there.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 5:38:42 AM EST
Why aren't all you cops in this thread denouncing the gun confiscating cops working in the CAGE units in Illinois in this thread? www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=272383
Just a question.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:11:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By tcsd1236:

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By rn45:
Right. Criminals have to move from one place to another. A good way to intercept them is to use traffic stops. Unfortunately innocent people are sometimes stopped. People get pissed. I can't blame them, but criminals usually try not to stand out from every one else.



Understood (and from a practical matter, probably as efficient as any method) but troubling in that rights are being sacrificed to meet a goal (ends justify the means argument)

Difficult problem.



How is anyones rights being sacrificed by an officer conducting a traffic stop and determining that the driver or vehicle occupant is wanted?



Team jumping to conclusions, has ASS-U-me-d that 10 people are getting randomly stopped for NO reason.

You have to put a disclaimer in for the simpletons.

If an officer legally stops 10 people, based on PC, there is a likelyhood that some of those people stopped will have warrants, or be committing more serious offenses than just the traffic violation that the officer stopped them from.



Checkpoints do stop people at random. There is no PC when you set up a roadblock and everyone has to pass muster.

Maybe in your neck of the woods, several out of every 10 people stopped for a traffic violation have warrants. Depends on the neighborhood,

I hope your "simpleton" remark wasn't directed towards me. We were having a respectful discussion. We can disagree with each other without name-calling.


Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:35:24 AM EST
Provo, Utah boasts how well it's quota system for issuing tickets makes the roads safer.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:47:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
Sometimes I write 2 or 3 traffic citations in a 10 hour shift.
Sometimes I write that many in about a month.
No quotas, I'm to busy taking out of control juvenile reports where the 13 year old girl has been gone for 3 days, or vehicle burglary reports or vehicle theft reports or residential burglary reports or traffic collision reports or "I lost my cell phone and need a report for the insurance" reports orspousal abuse reports or attempted murder reports or missing person reports or petty theft reports or under the influence reports or possession of Methamphetamine reports or unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor reports or battery reports or arresting people for any of these crimes and driving them to jail.

Don't often have a lot of time to write traffic citations.



"unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor reports" does it happen that often?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:48:32 AM EST
The Bottle Rockets

Radar Gun

Straight from 12th grade into junior college
Buddy, buddy, buddy I passed my exam
They’re making me a law enforcement person
Got me a gun and a badge, I’m a man

Radar Gun, Radar Gun

43 from where I was sittin’
30 miles an hour is the law of our land
Please produce your license, find your registration
And what is the name of your insurance man?

Radar Gun, Radar Gun
I’m makin’ money and I’m havin’ fun with my
Radar Gun, Radar Gun
With my brand new Radar Gun

You know our Sheriff William Buckburger
Says our mayor’s got a master plan
A new post gun meets the cost of livin’
And one of them stoplights down on Grand

Radar Gun, Radar Gun
I’m makin’ money and I’m havin’ fun with my
Radar Gun, Radar Gun
With my brand new Radar Gun

Schedule 19 on a special election
Got our money problems right in hand
Droppin’ them limits like a hot potato
50 down to 30 oh man, oh man

Radar Gun, Radar Gun
I’m makin’ money and I’m havin’ fun with my
Radar Gun, Radar Gun
With my brand new Radar Gun
Brand new shiny Simmons Radar Gun

Me and my partner go patrol car crusin’
on the parking lots at the shopping malls
Scanning those dashes, those mirrors and visors,
the little detectors that ruin it all
Johnny got one on an ’86 T-bird,
Pull up slow just as close as I can
Milli-watt seconds on maximum output,
We’ll dust that puppy with one small blast from my

Radar Gun, Radar Gun
I’m makin’ money and I’m havin’ fun with my
Radar Gun, Radar Gun
With my brand new Radar Gun
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 7:56:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Me and my partner go patrol car crusin’
on the parking lots at the shopping malls
Scanning those dashes, those mirrors and visors,
the little detectors that ruin it all
Johnny got one on an ’86 T-bird,
Pull up slow just as close as I can
Milli-watt seconds on maximum output,
We’ll dust that puppy with one small blast from my

Radar Gun, Radar Gun
I’m makin’ money and I’m havin’ fun with my
Radar Gun, Radar Gun
With my brand new Radar Gun



buddy of mine (now deceased) was a radar operator at Ft. Bliss, the MP's had set up speed traps on the base, he brought the dish down to zero elevation, tracked over to the MP's vehicle (which he said was something like a mile away), blipped the power, then watched through binoculars as the MP tried to figure out why his radar gun didn't work no more... guess they kept this up for quite some time, lol

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:11:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 8:14:58 AM EST by Lightning_P38]
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:16:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By POWER03:
Why aren't all you cops in this thread denouncing the gun confiscating cops working in the CAGE units in Illinois in this thread? www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=272383
Just a question.



Maybe because the discussion is about traffic tickets, and I couldn't care less about Illinois?

I don't have a quota. I DO have a personal performance standard. Since 1983 I have never been told to increase my "productivity".

Tickets are EASY. If so inclined I could do NOTHING but traffic cites in a 10 hour shift. Heck, I could do the same with NON-traffic cites. (Yes Virginia, you can be ticketed for other things besides traffic laws)

My performance standard is not measured by individual arrests in the day to day, (I might make no arrests on Monday, 6 on Tuesday). But by the overall crime/accident stats in my assigned patrol area. You can SEE the difference.

Talk of "quotas" is simply another red herring put out by the usual anti-cop, anti-govt clowns who are attempting to justify their pathetic positions.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 8:17:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Cops don't have quotas. But they DO have to look like they are enforcing the law. Whether LE admits to it or not, a lot of departments have an "expected" number of tickets they are supposed to write.

I get this from several officers I know. To advance, you must prove you are enforcing the law. This means giving tickets to a lot of guys....



Bullshit, I don't believe that for a second.
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