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Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:22:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial] [#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shokwav:


+1

Get your money’s worth on your way out the door
View Quote

Yeah, no shit.

Although to be fair, cashing your chips in vendetta-style over a 2-3 year sentence (prob less with parole and probably a facility for nonviolent convicts) seems a little dramatic.  Then again so does killing yourself.
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:23:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WoolRug] [#2]
Sounds like he beat the government.

Originally Posted By Spartikis:

Damn, not worth killing yourself over 2-3 years. Live to fight another day. Get out and dedicate your life to fighting the system, changing the laws, write a book and make millions, use your fame to rally people to your cause, use the money to hire lawyers. Make the ATF and everyone who wronged your regret they ever fucked with you. Be a thorn in their side until the day you die, knowing you made the world a better place for millions of honest law abiding citizens.
View Quote


And right after that you can go punch out God.
-Hartigan
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:24:36 PM EDT
[#3]
dang..
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:26:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JarHead94:



Who is he exactly?
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Originally Posted By JarHead94:
Originally Posted By BigBeluga:



Take his word for it dude.

He's not just some jackoff like you or me.



Who is he exactly?

Are you being obtuse deliberately? It's more than obvious that it's the OP that they were referring to.
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:30:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Sorry to hear that.  Prayers to the family.

Geez, .gov is responsible for taking more American lives than anything else combined.

I can't imagine the stress that's felt that my own government put on me to take my life over a rule.

Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:30:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Where's the ARFcommer douchebag that flipped and gave the ATF the testimony they needed to consider the solvent traps suppressors?
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:31:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigBeluga:


Are you a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigBeluga:
Originally Posted By vengarr:


I'm just a guy who knows some guys. I don't post bullshit.


Are you a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude?


It's kinda that way.
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:34:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MrHelper:
Guess he chose death by muffler . Oh the irony.
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There was a murder in my town a few years ago ,  dude beat his neighbor to death with a muffler
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:37:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Deceased owner's shop was in National City, MI. A backwoods, crossroads sort of location. Kind of area not to have car issues, especially after dark.

Guy that turned evidence against his friend/employer would not be welcome back to the area.
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:46:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Sad story
Link Posted: 9/21/2022 11:59:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Millennial:

Yeah, no shit.

Although to be fair, cashing your chips in vendetta-style over a 2-3 year sentence (prob less with parole and probably a facility for nonviolent convicts) seems a little dramatic.  Then again so does killing yourself.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Millennial:
Originally Posted By Shokwav:


+1

Get your money’s worth on your way out the door

Yeah, no shit.

Although to be fair, cashing your chips in vendetta-style over a 2-3 year sentence (prob less with parole and probably a facility for nonviolent convicts) seems a little dramatic.  Then again so does killing yourself.



It isn't just about the time in, he really has no future afterwards as a felon, years of parole restrictions, loss of rights, etc. Who knows what other affects this would also have on his family, finances, etc.

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:04:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wyomingnick:



It isn't just about the time in, he really has no future afterwards as a felon, years of parole restrictions, loss of rights, etc. Who knows what other affects this would also have on his family, finances, etc.

View Quote
Indeed.

Imagine being a lifelong sportsman/hunter and losing rights associated with firearm ownership.

Too, imagine being an outdoorsman and being confined in a cell. For some, it would be too much...
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:07:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Makes me think of the Soviet Union and its tyranny over its citizens.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:10:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Fuck the atf.
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:19:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dbrad197:

Dude(s), I thought you saw everything on arfcom.
View Quote


FIFY
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:21:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dbrad197:

Dude I thought you saw everything on arfcom.
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Originally Posted By dbrad197:
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Oof

Dude I thought you saw everything on arfcom.


Yes, quite surprised Aimless did not see that thread.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:27:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Goodn:



*Chickenshit*  I have a family. I cant go to jail!  *Chickenshit*

There's a Dem that ran over and killed an 18 year old republican simply because the kid is/was a republican near here.  He used the same sob story when trying to get leniency.  

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Goodn:
Originally Posted By ag04blast:
Originally Posted By Dog1:
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Fuck the atf.



This I won't say anything about the @%$#&% employee that was bragging about his testifying


The tech guy admitted on here to having a bunch of off book machine guns and suppressors.  He ratted to save his butt.



*Chickenshit*  I have a family. I cant go to jail!  *Chickenshit*

There's a Dem that ran over and killed an 18 year old republican simply because the kid is/was a republican near here.  He used the same sob story when trying to get leniency.  



The guy admitted to committing first degree murder, and was given only 50k bail.
The POS is now out instead of being in jail.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:34:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: olds442tyguy] [#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZMV:
Their tech support guy was in here last month bragging that he testified they were making silencers and thanks to him, solvent traps were considered silencer parts.
View Quote

At first I wanted to scream traitor.

But realistically, they were told “make our case or lose your life”. He was a pawn, the ATF rewriting their own “laws” is the reason the owner is dead.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 12:34:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 1:37:36 AM EDT
[#20]
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 1:40:22 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.
View Quote

Depending on industy and profession a felony conviction can also mean you are no longer employable.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 1:53:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

At first I wanted to scream traitor.

But realistically, they were told “make our case or lose your life”. He was a pawn, the ATF rewriting their own “laws” is the reason the owner is dead.
View Quote

Fuck that fucking rat.
I hope he is scorned and shamed everywhere he goes forever.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 1:57:20 AM EDT
[#23]
What an incredible fucking waste.

Fuckheads at the ATF probably high-fived when they heard he killed himself, too.

Fucking slime.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 1:57:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZMV:


They made "solvent traps, totally not silencers or anything" but then tested them as silencers and improved their designs. Did their own R&D to make them more efficient as silencers. Also had a bunch of full auto stuff, off form. Their tech support guy was in here last month bragging that he testified they were making silencers and thanks to him, solvent traps were considered silencer parts.
View Quote


You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Shall not be in-fucking-fringed…
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 2:04:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.
View Quote



Popcorn Sutton says otherwise
https://smokymountainnews.com/archives/item/2651-moonshiner-dead-in-apparent-suicide
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 2:08:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigBeluga:
Fuck the ATF.


Take heed folks, and learn.


If your only way out is death, then you might as well make it a good one.
View Quote


Don’t go alone?
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 3:13:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
What an incredible fucking waste.

Fuckheads at the ATF probably high-fived when they heard he killed himself, too.

Fucking slime.
View Quote


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 3:16:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
What an incredible fucking waste.

Fuckheads at the ATF probably high-fived when they heard he killed himself, too.

Fucking slime.


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 3:16:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PeepEater:

Depending on industy and profession a felony conviction can also mean you are no longer employable.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PeepEater:
Originally Posted By peacematu:
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.

Depending on industy and profession a felony conviction can also mean you are no longer employable.


I always wondered how felons find work when they get out.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 3:19:28 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:


I always wondered how felons find work when they get out.
View Quote
Unskilled or low skills manual labor is what Ive seen.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 4:35:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Fuck the atf.
View Quote

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:20:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:


I always wondered how felons find work when they get out.
View Quote

Ever see those guys on construction crews shoveling gravel? Or hauling lumber/electrical supplies up and down stairs or ladders?
Those guys.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:24:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CherokeeGunslinger] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MedmanKS:


You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Shall not be in-fucking-fringed…
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MedmanKS:
Originally Posted By ZMV:
They made "solvent traps, totally not silencers or anything" but then tested them as silencers and improved their designs. Did their own R&D to make them more efficient as silencers. Also had a bunch of full auto stuff, off form. Their tech support guy was in here last month bragging that he testified they were making silencers and thanks to him, solvent traps were considered silencer parts.


You say that like it’s a bad thing.

Shall not be in-fucking-fringed…

I've noticed for a while now that Arfcom has its share of bootlicker jackasses who support infringements like the infamous NFA and "prohibited person" bullshit. You'd think gun owners would be against such tyranny...

Supporting the 2A means opposing anything that places limits upon our right to keep and bear arms.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:43:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartikis:

Damn, not worth killing yourself over 2-3 years. Live to fight another day. Get out and dedicate your life to fighting the system, changing the laws, write a book and make millions, use your fame to rally people to your cause, use the money to hire lawyers. Make the ATF and everyone who wronged your regret they ever fucked with you. Be a thorn in their side until the day you die, knowing you made the world a better place for millions of honest law abiding citizens.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Spartikis:
Originally Posted By dskeet:

If I remember right, with the plea deal he was expected to get 2-3 years.  Final call was up to the judge, but that's what the prosecutors were pushing for with the deal.  He was seen as the ringleader and was getting the worst sentence.

Damn, not worth killing yourself over 2-3 years. Live to fight another day. Get out and dedicate your life to fighting the system, changing the laws, write a book and make millions, use your fame to rally people to your cause, use the money to hire lawyers. Make the ATF and everyone who wronged your regret they ever fucked with you. Be a thorn in their side until the day you die, knowing you made the world a better place for millions of honest law abiding citizens.

I couldn’t do time.  No way.  

Of course I wouldn’t suicide myself either.  Not in my DNA.  I would probably walk into the remote Alaska wilderness and never come back out.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:50:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
What an incredible fucking waste.

Fuckheads at the ATF probably high-fived when they heard he killed himself, too.

Fucking slime.


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.

@peacematu

He doesn’t deal with ATF agents in his FFL dealings. That’s not who handles that side of the house.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:52:20 AM EDT
[#36]
Killing yourself is so fucking lame  

Go out like a martyr
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 5:58:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CherokeeGunslinger:

I've noticed for a while now that Arfcom has its share of bootlicker jackasses who support infringements like the infamous NFA and "prohibited person" bullshit. You'd think gun owners would be against such tyranny...

Supporting the 2A means opposing anything that places limits upon our right to keep and bear arms.
View Quote

You do realize what covers prohibited person right? Nobody wanting convicted murderers, rapists, pedo's, and gangbangers armed. But if that's what you call as bOoTlIcKiNg, keep believing that false narrative then about absolutism.

We need a win, absolutism hasn't been winning for us. In fact, playing that is a very short game. play for the long run. That's better.

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:00:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dude84] [#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 2JokersWild:
Fuck the atf.
View Quote

And the shitface on here that testified against them. Rot in hell mother fucker
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:11:40 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

At first I wanted to scream traitor.

But realistically, they were told “make our case or lose your life”. He was a pawn, the ATF rewriting their own “laws” is the reason the owner is dead.
View Quote



Sounds like RogueHKMP5 made their case for them, and rather than a pwan, is likely one level removed from the ATF as the cause of the owner's suicide.

Might want to rewatch The Patriot and see what happens when someone on your side sells you out to the Redcoats.  

The traitor is far worse than the known enemy.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:13:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762] [#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:


Reading posts over time has given me the impression a lot on here don't like that agency.

My FFL does a lot of transfers. I asked if people from the above mentioned agency throw their weight around when doing whatever they do at the FFL. He said no.
View Quote



(Removed, CoC-6~guns762). Your statement is proven false with video evidence.

Click
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:15:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bprifle] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman:

You do realize what covers prohibited person right? .

View Quote



YOU do realize that the law striping gun rights for a felony included a provision for getting rights restored after your sentence was complete right?

Until sometime in the 90's I believe that non violent felons could request a background check from the aft  &  have their rights restored.  Dem's line item vetoed the funding for that background check........  Now it's a lifetime ban for all..... & most people today think its always been that way
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:16:38 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman:

You do realize what covers prohibited person right? Nobody wanting convicted murderers, rapists, pedo's, and gangbangers armed. But if that's what you call as bOoTlIcKiNg, keep believing that false narrative then about absolutism.

We need a win, absolutism hasn't been winning for us. In fact, playing that is a very short game. play for the long run. That's better.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman:
Originally Posted By CherokeeGunslinger:

I've noticed for a while now that Arfcom has its share of bootlicker jackasses who support infringements like the infamous NFA and "prohibited person" bullshit. You'd think gun owners would be against such tyranny...

Supporting the 2A means opposing anything that places limits upon our right to keep and bear arms.

You do realize what covers prohibited person right? Nobody wanting convicted murderers, rapists, pedo's, and gangbangers armed. But if that's what you call as bOoTlIcKiNg, keep believing that false narrative then about absolutism.

We need a win, absolutism hasn't been winning for us. In fact, playing that is a very short game. play for the long run. That's better.


I am an absolutist.  I believe if they are deemed not dangerous enough to keep locked up then they should have their rights restored.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:18:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By peacematu:
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.
View Quote


Most people probably don’t go from clean record to looking at 4 years. Most people looking at 4 years have been in and out of jails for years.  Being in trouble with the law, dealing with police, lawyers and courts are part of their life. They probably saw their parents deal with all those things when they were a kid.  They don’t give a shit they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are away, they never did while they were free.  

For someone who hasn’t dealt with those things all their life it can be a shock to the system, they don’t know what jail is like, they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are in there, and how will they when they get out and they have a record?  They probably lost everything they had on lawyers, and now they can’t even try to fix it for at least several years.  I can see someone in that situation feeling like they let everyone down and don’t deserve the air they breathe.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:19:19 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By glocktalk:
Sad story
View Quote


This.


FATF.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:23:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bprifle:



YOU do realize that the law striping gun rights for a felony included a provision for getting rights restored after your sentence was complete right?

Until sometime in the 90's I believe that non violent felons could request a background check from the aft  &  have their rights restored.  Dem's line item vetoed the funding for that background check........  Now it's a lifetime ban for all..... & most people today think its always been that way
View Quote

YOU do realize that I already knew that, right? Getting restored if proven to be rehabilitated and the crime wasn't heinous, I am all for.

In fact, a convicted felon who had his rights restored killed someone trying to murder a DPS trooper. And he was no billed.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:24:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Fuch the atf, more blood on their hands enforcing unconstitutional law.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:26:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman] [#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bronsonburner:

I am an absolutist.  I believe if they are deemed not dangerous enough to keep locked up then they should have their rights restored.
View Quote

And how has that game been working for us, eh?

We need a bipartisan resolution, not their way or our way or the highway approach. No more ground, take back some wrongfully taken grounds, and say this is where we at and what we want. Meet us in the middle or no deal.

Now forgive me, I fell into a thread slide trap.

Fuck the ATF, as always.
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:32:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ArizonaRifleman:

YOU do realize that I already knew that, right?.
View Quote



My bad,  You were just listing stereotypical groups of people you wanted to justify disarming. It didn't seem to be a stretch that you list might keep right on going ........
Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:38:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MHowski:


Most people probably don’t go from clean record to looking at 4 years. Most people looking at 4 years have been in and out of jails for years.  Being in trouble with the law, dealing with police, lawyers and courts are part of their life. They probably saw their parents deal with all those things when they were a kid.  They don’t give a shit they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are away, they never did while they were free.  

For someone who hasn’t dealt with those things all their life it can be a shock to the system, they don’t know what jail is like, they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are in there, and how will they when they get out and they have a record?  They probably lost everything they had on lawyers, and now they can’t even try to fix it for at least several years.  I can see someone in that situation feeling like they let everyone down and don’t deserve the air they breathe.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MHowski:
Originally Posted By peacematu:
I read the sentence would be up to 5 years. That means a little over 4 years to serve. I haven't heard of people offing themselves for that. Maybe I'm missing something.


Most people probably don’t go from clean record to looking at 4 years. Most people looking at 4 years have been in and out of jails for years.  Being in trouble with the law, dealing with police, lawyers and courts are part of their life. They probably saw their parents deal with all those things when they were a kid.  They don’t give a shit they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are away, they never did while they were free.  

For someone who hasn’t dealt with those things all their life it can be a shock to the system, they don’t know what jail is like, they won’t be able to provide for their family while they are in there, and how will they when they get out and they have a record?  They probably lost everything they had on lawyers, and now they can’t even try to fix it for at least several years.  I can see someone in that situation feeling like they let everyone down and don’t deserve the air they breathe.


Most people looking at 4 years also did something wrong, or something they knew, deep down, was wrong. Going to prison for murdering someone? Deep down, even subconsciously, there's an element of, "okay. I guess I deserve this." Being punished for something you DIDN'T do, or something you honestly DON'T believe is wrong, is totally different.

Link Posted: 9/22/2022 6:39:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: guns762] [#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bprifle:



My bad,  You were just listing stereotypical groups of people you wanted to justify disarming. It didn't seem to be a stretch that you list might keep right on going ........
View Quote

The short game is not winning, if you haven't noticed. You need to be talking to THEM and not ME because they are the ones you need to be convincing of your absolutism feelings. Plus trying to eat our own has never gotten past home plate.

And it is a very big stretch to assume that much of me, get your facts right first. (Removed, CoC-6 ~guns762)

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