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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/5/2002 6:00:44 PM EDT
Just watched a special about Marine tank school. The training took place last September, during the 9/11 attack. Very interesting. I think it airs again in 2 hours. Check it out if you can.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:06:20 PM EDT
Damn. I shit canned cable a half a year ago. I do miss the discovery channel, though.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:08:05 PM EDT
Sounds good,did they show anything about APC's... I love APC's!
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:09:25 PM EDT
Very good show. If I ever see one parked unattended with the keys still in, it I think I could get it's tracks smoking for a quick joy ride after watching! [:)]
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:16:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mk1iii: Very good show. If I ever see one parked unattended with the keys still in, it I think I could get it's tracks smoking for a quick joy ride after watching! [:)]
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Just in case you do see one unattended,dont worry they dont use keys.[thinking]
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:52:27 PM EDT
It was kinda funny seeing them fire the main gun. No trigger per se, the gunner twists a red handle with his left hand. I wonder if they make the tanks in a right-handed model. [;)] The 3 .50 cals were awesome, too. Wish I had one mounted on my Ford Explorer. [:D]
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 7:02:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Damn. I shit canned cable a half a year ago. I do miss the discovery channel, though.
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Doh!
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:05:09 PM EDT
That was cool. They were training at Fort Knox. I am way too claustrophobic for any of that!
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:14:01 PM EDT
Yet another reason to kick myself for not having cable tv!! Dammit!!
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:16:14 PM EDT
Just watched it....pretty good show. Now to figure out how to get me one of those 50's...hmmm medcop
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:20:22 PM EDT
3? Coaxial, Coupula, where's the third? pardon my ingnorance.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:22:16 PM EDT
Just saw it myself too,didnt see any APC's though but hell I guess I'll go watch the major news networks and get my fix.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:25:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2002 9:43:12 PM EDT by toaster]
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist: 3? Coaxial, Coupula, where's the third? pardon my ingnorance.
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Loaders weapon. M-60 machine gun. Edit: I thought the only .50 the m1 carried was at the commanders cupola position. The other two machine guns are at the loaders position @ the top of the turret and the coax are 7.62's. I could be wrong. Oops, I was wrong on the 7.62's model designation. They use m240s Not m60s. I'm a dumbass. [url]http://www.gdls.com[/url]
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:21:30 AM EDT
I enjoyed seeing the one tank break that sprocket and the other tank pull them out!!! Talk about power, that turbine engine sounds soooo awesome!!! With my best Tim 'the tool man' Tailor (Tim Allen) impression - ooohh ooohh ooohh!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:27:05 AM EDT
While an awesome display of power... it left me wondering. Why the loader position? Is there some way to automate the loading system in a reliable manner? I observed how the loader acts as an interface between the "magazine" and the chamber, which would help avoid explosions, but you would think there would be a speed benefit if the role was automated. Unless there is some element of loader that requires the human element... Viper Out
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:29:41 AM EDT
Marvl, That red handle you saw the gunner twisting with his left hand is called the master blaster and its used when the gunners and tc triggers malfunction. The 105MM and 120 MM rounds fire by a electric current/voltage sent to the round. If the triggers wont work you twist that small generater and it produces enough of a current/voltage to fire the round. BKVic
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:34:19 AM EDT
A auto loading system is just something else to break when you need it most. When you throw track, break a torson bar or blow a final drive you will love having that extra guy when your busting track![:)] BKVic
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 10:06:26 AM EDT
Why the loader position? He's usually the lowest ranking crew-member. He acts as ground guide and gets all the crummy details. He's also the one who gets LP-OP duty and the worst radio watch shift. If you need a KP or someone for weapons cleaning detail at the the end of Gunnery...."Gimmee all your Loaders!" As noted by BKVIC the red handle is the manual everything else is broken trigger. Usually the Gunner uses an H-shaped handle called the "Cadillacs". It is up and to the right of the Master Blaster. It traverses the turret, elevates the main gun, lases to the target and fires whichever weapon system is selected. The TC also has a single joystick by his right thigh that will do the same things along with override the gunners controls.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 10:18:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2002 10:25:46 AM EDT by marvl]
They showed a segment where one round failed to fire. The loader mucked with it a bit, opened the breech, and shoved the round home. Second try it fires. Another good reason to have a loader rather than an auto system, I suppose. I'm curious, does it get hot in those things when they're all buttoned up, or is there some climate control? I think dealing with heat in a small confined space would be difficult. I see the 3 MGs are 1 .50 and 2 7.62s... Why not make them all the same caliber?
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 10:48:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By marvl: I see the 3 MGs are 1 .50 and 2 7.62s... Why not make them all the same caliber?
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Just a guess here but .50BMG ammo takes up about 3 times the space as an equal number of 7.62.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 11:19:41 AM EDT
Holy cow! I had NO idea this was gonna be on. I'm about to enlist in the Idaho Nat'l Guard as a 19K M1A1 Armor Crewman. Fortunately, it's on again tomorrow evening at 7:00 EDT: [url]http://dsc.discovery.com/schedule/episode.jsp?episode=23635000[/url] I should probably get Tivo, for just such an occasion. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 11:33:12 AM EDT
While an awesome display of power... it left me wondering. Why the loader position? Is there some way to automate the loading system in a reliable manner? I observed how the loader acts as an interface between the "magazine" and the chamber, which would help avoid explosions, but you would think there would be a speed benefit if the role was automated. Unless there is some element of loader that requires the human element
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The soviets do this on their T-72/80 models. It eliminates a person, but Auotmation isn't everything, and I truly wonder which is faster. Benjamin
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 12:20:04 PM EDT
My son was an M1 crewman (19K), in 2nd AD, VII Corps. He spent about two years tearing up German real estate. After he returned, his regiment was assigned to the 2nd ID at Fort Lewis. While there we visited and he showed us the tanks. No key required to get underway...and the turbine is VERY quiet. The 120mm ammo is carried in an enclosed magazine in the turret bustle, in the rear. The magazine has blow-out patches in the rear turret roof so that if they are hit there, the explosion will vent up and out, rather than inside the tank, killing the crew. (We finally learned out lessons from the Shermans.) The three MGs are two at 7.62 NATO, one at the coax that fires whereever the main gun is pointing and one M-240 that the loader uses. The .50cal M-2HB is used remotely by the tank commander. It is a VERY effective weapon against almost everything but another MBT. Yes, the ex-Soviet tanks use only three crewman and have an autoloader system, while we still adhere to the fourth crewman philosophy. Our system was proven to be the more successful during the Gulf War. When the T-72/T-80 fires, the gun returns to the load position. The lack of interior room precludes anything like an ammo carrier/transfer tray assembly to following the gun around to any position, so it must return to a certain elevation to reload. This takes about 12 seconds. During this time, the gun is not available for another engagement. A well trained Abrams crew can pump out a round about every 6-10 seconds, while on the run, at a different target every shot, and the gun need not be returned to a load position. Just keep on driving...and shooting. The loader moves as necessary to keep pumping rounds into the breech. The American system is faster and more effective.
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 12:27:11 PM EDT
The loaders are voice operated. Did you notice in the sim-unit the TC asked how many Sabots he had left, he didnt have to take his eyes out of his periscope to do it. Loaders can be told 'heat' or 'sabot' as fast if not faster than an automated system. And I hear they make good track cleaners ;>
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 12:50:03 PM EDT
Kill-9, You'll have fun at Ft.Knox when you go for basic and AIT. When I went through in 89 I was a 19E"M-60A3" and they did what was called onestop traning where our basic and AIT was combined. I was transitioned to 19K right befor the Golf War. I had a hell of a lot of fun while I was at Ft.Knox, lots of bars and stripbars all the way along 31W to Louisville. The only bad part I had about being there was I went to basic at Ft. Knox, went to AIT at FT.Knox and ETS'ed from FT.Knox, I went nowhere while in the Army. Oh well, where else can you go and shoot the big guns for free? BKVic
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 1:27:06 PM EDT
i watched tank school last night. it ended at 12am this morning! very cool!!!!!!
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 3:07:47 PM EDT
All, Three MG's on an M1 or M1A1. 1 M2HB in the CWS (Commander's Weapon Station), and 1 M240 coaxially mounted to the breech of the Rheinmetal 120mm main gun (hence the nickname, "coax"). The other M240 is mounted on the "loader's station." It does a couple of things: first, it gives the loader something to hang on to when moving around at high speeds on rough terrain; second, he can engage troop targets at the tank commander's discretion, and third, it's a backup in case something goes wrong with the coax. Also, the "hopper" holds almost 12,000 rounds of 7.62mm 4-1 linked for the coax. I say again...12,000 rounds. I saw about 3 minutes of the show (channel surfing). The guys were doing "baseline" gunnery (really a familiarization fire, where each fledging crewman gets to fire a couple of rounds - which was practice HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) in this case. It's fun, especially after doing TCGST (Tank Crew Gunnery Skills Test) tasks over and over and over again, until it's like second nature to you. Hopefully everyone saw these guys struggling with the rounds - while they're not too heavy, the confined space on an M1's turret doesn't allow for a lot of room. The loader has a pretty tough job - and it's dangerous. Did anyone notice how fast the breech recoils? Let me tell you - it's kinda frightening the first time that huge thing flies past you - and, oh, before I forget - IT"S LOUD!!! The sound goes right through you. How loud? Put it this way - firing a .50 cal is like firing a pop gun after doing tank gunnery. Wish I'd seen the whole thing - hopefully it'll come on again very soon. Alas, I'll just have to wait until my unit's gunnery cycle starts anew :-) "Forge the Thunderbolt" and "Strike First!"
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:11:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2002 9:18:04 PM EDT by kill-9]
AndyTN: The show will air again Sunday at 7:00PM EDT BKVic: I did OSUT back in 1985 at Ft. Bliss, TX as a Light ADA Crewman. I spent a total of 11 years in the Ohio Guard before ETS'ing in 1995 (I opted to skip most of the Clinton years). This time around I'll be getting MOSQ'ed not on active duty, but right here in Boise with the Idaho Guard. And, at 37, I can't say that I mind a whole lot. ;) By the way, can anyone name this piece of equipment? [img]http://www.armormuseum.com/atb4035.jpg[/img] Crewing one of these was my initial MOS. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:14:56 AM EDT
[i]punt[/i] as a reminder that this show is on again this evening. -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 2:36:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kill-9: By the way, can anyone name this piece of equipment? -kill-9
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M-42 Duster. Umm, I chreated and checked the link for the picture.[:D]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 2:39:23 PM EDT
It was a very good program.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 4:09:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 4:15:52 PM EDT by kill-9]
[b]ARGH!!![/b] Well, I missed it again. I was out shooting my new AR (really) and lost track of time. For a little while I thought I was golden...until I remembered that I didn't set the clock in my truck ahead an hour. I don't suppose anyone taped this? I'd gladly pay for shipping. -kill-9
Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades: M-42 Duster. Umm, I chreated and checked the link for the picture.[:D]
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Cheaters never prosper. [smash]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 5:14:38 PM EDT
Please tell me that [b]somebody[/b] taped this. Please? -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:11:45 PM EDT
I don't have cable and have not seen it yet, but I called my mom before it came on and asked her to tape it. She is bringing it with her when she comes to visit April 13th. Let me know if you have not found a copy by then...
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:15:45 PM EDT
... just watched it, very kewl.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:25:58 PM EDT
Sorry to rub this in, but over the weekend when you guys were watching this on tv I was actually in, on, and around M1's all weekend. I am in a fire direction platoon for the MLRS system and some tankers from Ohio were drilling at the same time. While we were test driving our new tracks (basically a souped up M113 APC)ther were about 15 M1's in the woods with us. While I wasn't looking, my driver said "anyone told those tankers that its not polite to point?" I turned and two of the tanks were following our track with thier turrets...very intimidating! The turbine engines do sound cool, just don't stand in the exhaust blast! (Found out the hard way!)
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 7:52:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2002 7:58:19 PM EDT by NHRAMark]
If you can find it at a used PC gameing store or on E-Bay, everyone needs a copy of Microprose M1 Tank Platoon 2. Awesome PC game based on the M1A2 Abrahms. Was released in 1998 I think. You to can relive the 73 Easting battle during the Gulf War! Sabot up! There is one on E-Bay right now!
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:06:07 PM EDT
Unreconstructed: Thanks, man. Will do. NHRAMark: LOL I was JUST playing M1TP2. Very cool game, but I wish it had the "virtual cockpit" of some of the later fighter games. I wanna be able to look around the interior. :) -kill-9
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 8:14:20 PM EDT
Shortly after the "big sandbox" I volunteered to stay behind and load the freighters with vehicles.. I've driven almost every vehicle in the Army inventory.. The first time I drove an Abrams (never had any lessens as I was a "rotor head") I was thinking, "This thing weighs 60+ tons. I must have to hit the brake pretty hard to stop it... So I stomped on the brake.. (maybe 10 MPH) The tank stopped on a dime.. Thank GOD I had my helmet on because my head didn't stop moving till it hit the front of the hatch... OW!
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 9:10:56 PM EDT
I watched it at work. Slow night. Cool show. USPC40 ------------------------------------------------- [b][blue]NRA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.nra.org[/url] [b][blue]GOA Life Member[/blue][/b] - [url]www.gunowners.org[/url] [b][blue]SAF Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.saf.org[/url] [b][blue]SAS Supporter[/blue][/b] - [url]www.sas-aim.org[/url] [img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 10:41:41 PM EDT
Wish I had caught the show. Got to live it between '87-89. I remember that it was one hell of a machine. The Gunners would "eat sights" all the time if the driver was too aggressive. When that main gun went off, the dust would swirl through the air, and the blast and underpressure would make it feel like the end of the world. Also, the 105mm shell casing would deflect down to the floor, then spin around. The loader would be stomping it, plus bracing himself, plus loading another round, and staying clear of the gun breach, which is going up and down, then slamming back. That position really was hours and hours of boredom, punctuated by moments of sheer terror. I was proud to be the driver, got to smash and crush things, and hardly ever threw the track. Damn, I kinda miss those days, though these days are better.
Link Posted: 4/7/2002 10:54:29 PM EDT
The video is available through the discovery channel for $20 at: [url]http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10000&storeId=10000&productId=21551&langId=-1[/url]
Link Posted: 4/8/2002 11:27:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/21/2002 12:03:40 AM EDT
I got my tape from The Discovery Channel earlier this week and have watched it several times. Now I really can't wait to start tank school on May 1. :) -kill-9
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