Poll to follow in a couple minutes...

Wondering how people are handling misbehaving children these days. I see quite a variety of it in my line of work as a police officer, and have even some parents get this abhorrent look on their faces when I suggest that maybe what their kid needs a good swift kick in the arse.

Gonna design the poll this way...
one answer for those who are opposed to physical discipline (we used to call it corporal punishment, or spanking, or the belt, or the backhand, boot in the ass, etc. etc.)

And the other answers for, at what age would you start it, if so inclined.

I'm not saying one way or the other is best, but my thoughts on the issue mirror several statements straight from the Bible
PROVERBS
13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
23:14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.

And Samuel Butler refined it into this line from a poem "Hudibras"
Love is a boy by poets styl'd;
Then spare the rod, and spoil the child

Always worked around our house.

Quoted: 49thvirginiainfantry.com/belt.jpg Always worked around our house.

Mine too. Mom was good at ear pulling too. They had a "PADDLE" that was designed for hitting KIDS. They bought it in a TOY store. It had HOLES in it so it would go FASTER when they swung it!! LOL what frickin masochist designed that thing?

All three of us got spanked.  I think it was extremely effective, seeing as how all three of us turned out just fine.

I will never hit my kids with my own hand or my belt. I believe the instrument of punishment should not be associated with a specific person. I'm working on devising a plan, a designated paddle or something similar.

Discipline should be started as soon as the child is openly defying your will.

Be consistent.

The worst thing I see is............."I'm going to count to 3.....1......2........2 1/2........2 3/4"   or  "Johnny mommy wants you to sit here and be still for 5 minutes while mommy takes care of this (important business) will that be OK?"  HELLO, who is the parent you or the kid? Why do parent's ask the child permission to tell the child what the parent wants them to do for the child's own good.

The younger you start the less you will have to discipline them.

Understand the difference between discipline and abuse.

Discipline is correcting a child that is willfully disobeying a command from a parent that is for the child's safety or best interest.

Abuse is beating them out of anger and frustration because you have not been consistent in your discipline and wait till you blow a gasket before you hit them with a lamp cord..........

npd223

I agree with all Scripture.

But lets look closely at the Scripure itself.

"The rod" may also refer to a "verbal chastening" such as: "Son, we need to talk this out." or "Princess Girl ... you don't wanna go there, and I'll tell you why."

NEVER spank a child to put marks on them. And one must keep their temper at bay when chastening.

I have 4 children ... and if there's a good point I learned is that WE OFTEN FORGET WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A KID!

Chasten, yes ... but use tact and common sence.

And here's another tip:

After chastening, wait a bit to let them know you're upset with them. Afterwards, GIVE THEM TWICE AS MUCH LOVE BACK.

Hope this helps.

Quoted: npd223 I agree with all Scripture. But lets look closely at the Scripure itself. "The rod" may also refer to a "verbal chastening" such as: "Son, we need to talk this out." or "Princess Girl ... you don't wanna go there, and I'll tell you why." NEVER spank a child to put marks on them. And one must keep their temper at bay when chastening. I have 4 children ... and if there a good point I learned is that WE OFTEN FORGET WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE A KID! Chasten, yes ... but use tact and common sence. And here's another tip: After chastening, wait a bit to let them know you're upset with them. Afterwards, GIVE THEM TWICE AS MUCH LOVE BACK. Hope this helps.

Wasn't looking for help. Don't have any younguns of my own. Just wondering what the general consensus was.

I was spanked as a child when I did something wrong, and you know what?  I don't remember a single spanking.  I do remember not becoming a juvenile delinquent, not getting hooked on drugs, and not knocking up some girl in high school.  You can't always reason with a small child.  The "rod" isn't about punishment so much as it is about getting the kid's attention.  It's a way of saying "yo, kid, get your shit together.  You've been told what's right; do it."  If the kid needs a spanking to get his attention, fine.  

My parents never laid a hand(or belt, paddle, brick, whatever) on me or my brother... we turned out just fine.

I'm not really for it or against it.  I probably won't do it if I ever have kids... just isn't my thing.

Please remember, it's not the pain that is inflicted, it's the psychological effect incurred by a non-painful "swat."

Time-outs, warnings, responsibility given with reprocussions, and a "tap" on the behind will work more effectively than anything else.

Also - NEVER get angry.  Always approach the situation with a cool head.  If you find yourself pissed, take a few moments to realize that you are dealing with a child - not someone who has grasped logic.

Be careful.

They are your children - not a discipline project.

If you can recall more spankings / disciplinings from your childhood than fun times with your parents, that should provide you with enough proof that these events stand out more than others in a child's mind.

Children are to be coached, not drilled like a recruit.

Quoted: Abuse is beating them out of anger and frustration because you have not been consistent in your discipline and wait till you blow a gasket before you hit them with a lamp cord..........

Coincidentally, last year I arrested a mother of a 13 yr old girl who was so afraid to go home she asked neighbors to go to her apartment door so her mother, seeing them, wouldn't beat her. Seems mother had been whipping her forearms with a rolled up extension cord leaving welt upon welt upon welt which had turned into scar upon scar. Mother forced her to always wear long sleeves to school. I wanted to do the same thing to the mother. The judge removed the child from her mother's care. F****D up case, but I'm glad I was able to handle it and help the kid out. When I asked her to tell me why she was so afraid to go into her apt, she spilled the beans and I took three or four full pages of notes. That for her response to one question. She grew up the hard way, and I hope she's doing better now.

I'm all for a good spanking if they deserve it.

Quoted: Also - NEVER get angry discipline your child while angry.  Always approach the situation with a cool head.  If you find yourself pissed, take a few moments to realize that you are dealing with a child - not someone who has grasped logic.

Fixed this for ya. You're GOING to get angry.

i was spanked (rarely) and i'm fine

Quoted: Quoted: Also - NEVER get angry discipline your child while angry.  Always approach the situation with a cool head.  If you find yourself pissed, take a few moments to realize that you are dealing with a child - not someone who has grasped logic. Fixed this for ya. You're GOING to get angry.

I do realize that.  And I have gotten angry.  I am just aware that I need to step away for a moment and gather myself.  Young children do not think logically.  Therefore, you must address the situation appropriately.

I spanked my monkey once... bad BAD little monkey.

Quoted: Quoted: Also - NEVER get angry discipline your child while angry.  Always approach the situation with a cool head.  If you find yourself pissed, take a few moments to realize that you are dealing with a child - not someone who has grasped logic. Fixed this for ya. You're GOING to get angry.

I just realized that I misunderstood your post.  You are correct.  You will get angry - just don't discipline your child while in that state of mind.

I only remeber spanking my son once and it made me feel like shit. But I'd do it again if I felt it were necessary. But gusess what. He never kicked the dogs water bowl again. Yes I gave him repeated warnings.

I don't count to 3,
I don't put them in Time out,
And I don't repeat my self.

If One of mine gets out of line, They get an ASS WHOOPIN. Plain and Simple

You have to realize though too that now the "Concerned" public takes things to extremes and if you spank your child because they almost darted out in the street, give a little whack on the behind, someone calls CPS about abuse... now get yourself out of THAT mess.

Schools are teaching that if your parents lay ONE hand on you for WHATEVER reason, Its OK to call the cops. My friend's kid did it and they had a hell of a time talking themselves out of that one. The father said "You bet I did!" of course the kid exaggerated and said that he was choking the living crap out of her.

Kid is a compulsive liar by the way. she has been that way for years. better now though.

OH I have a [sarcasm]funny[/sarcasm] one for you. I am talking to this guy I know on the phone one day and I hear his wife yelling in the backround... "Rich, you have to discipline your son... He used "Jesus Christ" while talking back to me and has to learn not to say things in a bad way" So this guy yells "TONY!! GET YOUR FUCKIN ASS ON THAT CHAIR AND WATCH WHAT KIND OF SHIT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH!!"

To this day I have no idea where the kid got that from.

Quoted: Kid is a compulsive liar by the way. she has been that way for years. better now though.

Soiunds like maybe she didn't get enough ass WHOPPINS

Quoted: I don't count to 3, I don't put them in Time out, And I don't repeat my self. If One of mine gets out of line, They get an ASS WHOOPIN. Plain and Simple

And people wonder why the Walls Unit is full.

I was spanked a total of three times in my life, and I am for spanking becuase it works. As long as there is no abuse and no weapons used (ie..belt, chain, pipe, pipe wrench, etc..). Sometimes saying no just isnt enough, hell I see alot of rugrats running around who completly disobey the parents and all the parts do is run after them saying dont do that. Children need to be taught that no means no and to respect their parents or their elders for that matter.

Give the KID a choice:

"Either you let me kick your ass for being STUPID, OR---

--- if you call the cops like your teacher told you to do, you'll NEVER live here again...EVER.  They'll take you away from Mommy, Daddy, Sister, Brother, the DOG, your room and all of your stuff.  You'll live with strangers, run away, become a drug-addicted prostitute and die from AIDS and needle infections...and nobody will give a shit."

It's a little harsh, but has the desired effect.

Quoted: Quoted: I don't count to 3, I don't put them in Time out, And I don't repeat my self. If One of mine gets out of line, They get an ASS WHOOPIN. Plain and Simple And people wonder why the Walls Unit is full.

Mine rarely get out of line.......And your remark is funny as I was a prison guard at one point....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't count to 3, I don't put them in Time out, And I don't repeat my self. If One of mine gets out of line, They get an ASS WHOOPIN. Plain and Simple And people wonder why the Walls Unit is full. Mine rarely get out of line.......And your remark is funny as I was a prison guard at one point....

Thank you for not mis-interpreting that.  It was not meant to be offensive.  It was meant as a joke.  

Quoted: Quoted: 49thvirginiainfantry.com/belt.jpg Always worked around our house. Mine too. Mom was good at ear pulling too. They had a "PADDLE" that was designed for hitting KIDS. They bought it in a TOY store. It had HOLES in it so it would go FASTER when they swung it!! LOL what frickin masochist  sadist designed that thing?

Fixed it for ya - a sadist enjoys hurting, a masochist enjoys being hurt.

[tangent] One day a masochist picks up a sadist in a bar.

They go back to the masochists place where they proceed to "get busy"

The sadist ties up the masochist, picks up a paddle, and steps forward.

"Oh yes, hurt me... hurt me" pants the masochist.

The sadist gets a cruels smile on his face, lights a cigarette, and says to the masochist:
"No". [/tangent]

I never had any reason to spank my 6yr old son.  Spanking is OK, I'm not going to tell others how to raise their kids.

It should be used as a last resort to get your childs attention if they're not obeying.  It's simply a tool in the tool box of parenting.

Hmmm....I have spanked, but not all of my children equally. My oldest son is the most head strong, and will argue and argue, he never backs down. I found that spanking is often the only way to get him to really listen. My second son is quieter, and a little dicipline goes a long way. We have rarely had to spank him.  My third son is a hellion (sp) and winds out of control pretty quickly. A really light attention getting spank will often make him stop and think about what he is doing, and we have to do this pretty frequently. My fourth, a girl, has had probably 2 or 3 little swats in her life, and cried and cried afterwards. Just a stern look to her is all that is really needed to gain compliance. The two others are too young to spank.  I would say that it depends on the child. My oldest is 15, and to this day requires the most dicipline.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 49thvirginiainfantry.com/belt.jpg Always worked around our house. Mine too. Mom was good at ear pulling too. They had a "PADDLE" that was designed for hitting KIDS. They bought it in a TOY store. It had HOLES in it so it would go FASTER when they swung it!! LOL what frickin masochist  sadist designed that thing? Fixed it for ya - a sadist enjoys hurting, a masochist enjoys being hurt. [tangent] One day a masochist picks up a sadist in a bar. They go back to the masochists place where they proceed to "get busy" The sadist ties up the masochist, picks up a paddle, and steps forward. "Oh yes, hurt me... hurt me" pants the masochist. The sadist gets a cruels smile on his face, lights a cigarette, and says to the masochist: "No". [/tangent]

Maybe he who designed it, was intending its use on himself.

I got a lot of whippings when I was a kid.  Now that I have a son (well, two of them now) I can see why.  He's just like me.  Son of a....

The only situations that require a spanking are gross, loud physical things.  Screaming and kicking things at a restaurant because he wants to go run around other people's tables instead of sit down will get a trip to the restroom and a spanking.  Hitting me because he doesn't want to take a bath gets a spanking.  In these situations, there is no such thing as reason.  The problem needs to be immediately dealt with or it will get worse.  You can't sit there pleading with the kid to be quiet and stop throwing his silverware on the floor for an hour.

On the other hand, some things are worse than a spanking.  If I say "Hey it's getting time for bed, let's clean up all your toys on the floor" and he goes and hides because he doesn't want to, out comes a garbage bag and all the toys go bye-bye (which seems to make him cry a lot more than a spanking!).

My wife won't let me spank the little bastard, but sometimes he really deserves it.

I can't bring myself to do physical punishment.  I don't look down on those that do, but I just can't do it.

That being said I love time out, no TV, no Video games, no anything.  I have been know to take my nephew and toss him into a cold shower with his cloths on after he hit my wife.  That pretty much took care of that situation.

"Beat them, they shall not die!"  

My Dad swears it's in the Bible somewhere

Wooden Spoon (a.k.a. Mr. Sad Spoon), my children meet him for specific offenses.  Example, Lying is an absolute spanking offense for most other offenses they will lose a privilege.  

spare the rod, and spoil the child...

i was a little prick growing up, and deserved every asswhipping i got... i turned out just fine...

i have my son trained well... he knows when hes fucking up, and he knows that when i start to raise my voice or curse that he had better damn well listen... in twelve years, ive only ever had to spank him once, and ive only had to really lay into him verbally once...

in his case, the threat of violence (my raised voice) works as well as actual violence...

If you have to physically discipline your child after 5th grade, something's wrong.

Kharn

I got whooped when I was younger.

My dad would sign the yellow permission slip that allowed the school to whip your ass if you acted up. I'd get it at school and when I got home I got another dose.

The teachers used to pull your hair and ears. I got put in a closet, led there by my ear, in class for six hours cause the teacher got up on a desk and I looked up her skirt. Plus, a whooping in the principals office and I got whoopin at home.

This did not affect me much as an adult

Oh, I have rarely had to use any physical force on my four kids.

I always got the 3 foot paint stirrer aptly named "Peter Paddle". Dad broke it on a table trying to get his point across to my sister one day. Then it was the doubled over belt. Mom always did the open hand or the fly swatter.

I am a strict disciplinarian.

But I NEVER hit my son in any way.

Hitting kids is wrong, and doesn't work that well anyway.

There are much better ways to discipline children.

Hitting kids just makes them aggressive and hard to deal with and screws them up in many other ways.

And just as an aside for those raising girls. Every girl who I have dated who loves to get the shit spanked out of her and be tied up and such, got lots of spankings as children. Is this what you want your little girl to be like when she grows up?  (Just imagine your daughter being used at the hands of Zen, that'll keep you from hitting her)


Zen





"This is my rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine"  

There is a lot of DROP and give me 20 around my place.

I'm all for spaking. It has its place and uses.

I've had to swat my little ones across the fanny on more than one occaision, and it has ALWAYS gotten their attention. That said, one swat is enough, and I always follow it up (one the point has been made) with a tender lesson of "Do you see why you have to obey Daddy?"

Whoever came up with the line, "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" was absolutely right, BTW...

Nothing wrong with a solid ass whoopin... I got mine, my kids will get theirs.

Remember, the kids have to earn an ass whoopin, its not like Daddy just had a bad day at work.


Oh, and I'm big on not using an object.... if your hand isn't sufficient, maybe its time to rethink your methodology....


my .02


- BG

The old saying is spare the rod and spoil the child.  A very firm believer in the adage.  I have seen too many young parents spend time "talking" to really young children.  Explaining inappropriate behavior.  What a crock!

If you wait till 16 you waited to long.  I have found that the #1 cause of disruptive children is the fact that their mothers work outside the home and are rarely there for their own child.


Sgatr15

I do count to 3. Well actually backwards to 1.

I do use time out.

I do use verbal discipline.

I do use physical punishment. Spankings.

All tools for parenting. All situations do not warrant a physical response.

As the children get older, Verbal takes the place of physical. You can discuss things with a 14 year old. A 3 year old is not mentally mature enough to understand.

IMHO

I would say that spanking is warranted, under certain situations.  It all depends on how it is used.  Punishment for punishment's sake is pointless and will do no good; the severity of the punishment is supposed to be proportional to the severity of the behavior that prompted the punishment in the first place.  If used rarely, spanking is a great way to get through to the kid that what they did was so far beyond the line of acceptance that they understand that what they did was extremely wrong.  If used often, then there is no way for a kid to know how bad/potentially dangerous their behavior/actions were.  Yelling is the same way; if you yell all the time, how is the kid going to be able to judge the severity of their actions?

Parents who substitute spanking/belting for other forms of punishment are doing their children a diservice.  For instance, I was in a grocery store a few weeks ago and this kid of about 4 was going crazy; he was running all over the place and crying that he wasn't getting what he wanted.  His mom alternated between pleading with him to be quiet to getting him something he wanted and back to pleading again.  Because she gave in a few times, every time she said no he screamed louder.  Finally I saw her in the parking lot screaming up a blue streak at him, telling him how embarassing he was and spanking him over and over.  

Here's how my mom dealt with my brother and I, and after 3 we never pitched a fit again.  We go to the store, mom says if you are good the whole time, you can get one kind of either cereal or juice that you want.  If you are bad, you get nothing.  Go to the store, and I pitched a fit, apparently.  She took me outside and told me that I had to sit in silence for 2 minutes.  Now, when you are 3, 2 minutes is forever.  One sound, and the 2 minutes would start again.  Go back into the store, and pitch another, mild fit.  Back to the car.  My mom did this with both me and my brother, spending a whole afternoon with each of us.  Yeah, it took a whole afternoon, but we were perfect angels ever since.  Needless to say, we did NOT get our choice of cereal.

In our house my mom took no crap; she said often that we did not live in a democracy, we lived in a dictatorship, and guess what, mom was the dictator.  I know that she did spank me, but not very often.  She also almost never raised her voice to us, so we knew that when she was pissed, we had done something REALLY bad.  

I do remember the one and only time that my pops gave me the belt, I was about 6.  Our house had the woods for our backyard, and there was a group of much older boys that I liked to sneak out and play with.  I'm a girl, and my father told me very clearly that under no circumstances was I allowed to play with them; I found out much later that he had very good reasons for telling me this.  I disobeyed him and went out to the woods to play, and my dad came home early, finding them trying to teach me how to jump a ramp.  He brought/dragged me home, silent the whole time.  He told me to go to my room, still silent.  I spent the whole afternoon wondering when he was going to blow, he was sooo pissed.  Later that night he came into my room with a belt, and gave me 5 good straps, right across the butt.  What I remember most, though, was that he was actually crying, and when it was all over, he told me to never make him have to do it again.  I never did; I actually felt like crap for what I put my DAD through!

I spank but I also explain why they get a spanking, what they did wrong and I take the time to explain why it is wrong and I make sure they understand. Very few repeat offenses they just keep looking for new ways to make me pull my hair. Yet my kids are polite and will sit down patiently when in a public place and to reward them for this I make lots of trips to the park. I believe that kids are they way they are today due to a lack of attention. Most of the time I don’t need to spank I just catch them right as they are about to do something, and ill say think about what your doing before you do it. Normally that solves the problem in its self.

Quoted: I only remeber spanking my son once and it made me feel like shit. But I'd do it again if I felt it were necessary. But gusess what. He never kicked the dogs water bowl again. Yes I gave him repeated warnings.

WRONG! The idea is to have the child obey. One command then obedience. If not, immediate correction. Otherwise you are not training to obey but to learn how mad you have to get before they have to obey. Check your volume. If you catch yourself having to raise your voice louder than necessary for the child to actually understand you are already behind. Consistency will yield resuslts. Children can be trained just like a pet. This is not a bad thing. It is the best for their own safety.