I am considering one for my next truck...I have a Ford F150 now, if I could do it over I would have gone with a 250 diesel. Seeing as how I am slowly going from COlt to Bushmaster, I may take the leap (after 4 Fords) and Go with a 2500 Silverado diesel. Lots of mods available for power and towing.

Not sure have fuel efficient they are, but it cant be too much worse than 14mpg at approx $2 p/g

I want a diesel dual cab 4x4 hilux...

I like its fuel economy and torque.

<-------------F-350 Powerstroke

Quoted: What do you guys think of diesel powered 4x4 pickups in general?

Depends on your useage.  If you tow or keep a truck 10 years, it's probably worth going that way.

If your just looking at mileage issues, it's going to take a long time just to recover the 3K you spent to go diesel before you would actually get on the plus side.

Quoted: I want a diesel dual cab 4x4 hilux... I like its fuel economy and torque.

those are nice, but the Land Cruiser pickup is a better truck, and available with the 6cyl diesel in addition to the 4cyl you're stuck with if you get the hilux. You can also get dual tanks, and a snorkel with the LC... Dammit, I really wish they'd import them.

... Struggled with that question too a few months ago. My summary?

... I will not go back to gas in a truck.

... and another shameless plug for posting a pic of her:

You are three thousand dollars at the Banks dealership away from racing a Corvette...and winning. A diesel pickup can make almost 350 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels and still get decent mileage. And thats with almost 25 percent drivetrain loss.

Hawkeye, is that an 05? The markings on the front fender make me ask.

Quoted: <-------------F-350 Powerstroke

What he said!!!! Ford!!!!

Y'all got shorted!

You should have gotten 4 full size doors and a full size back seat on them tanks!

4 doors for more ...well this is a family site!

BigDozer66

Quoted: You are three thousand dollars at the Banks dealership away from racing a Corvette...and winning. A diesel pickup can make almost 350 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels and still get decent mileage. And thats with almost 25 percent drivetrain loss.

Can a composite/fiberglass driveshaft withstand the punishment of a Diesel's torque?  Would the weight savings help the drivetrain loss?

Quoted: Quoted: You are three thousand dollars at the Banks dealership away from racing a Corvette...and winning. A diesel pickup can make almost 350 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels and still get decent mileage. And thats with almost 25 percent drivetrain loss. Can a composite/fiberglass driveshaft withstand the punishment of a Diesel's torque?  Would the weight savings help the drivetrain loss?

I wouldn't try it. Maybe you could use it just for racing. I know an aluminum lightning driveshaft can put 600 ponies to the ground. At that point the block is toast, so no one knows how long they last.

Hawkeye, tell me about the new 05s. I know the specs, but how does it feel in real life? Esp. how are the brakes, and the ride.

Quoted: Quoted: I want a diesel dual cab 4x4 hilux... I like its fuel economy and torque. those are nice, but the Land Cruiser pickup is a better truck, and available with the 6cyl diesel in addition to the 4cyl you're stuck with if you get the hilux. You can also get dual tanks, and a snorkel with the LC... Dammit, I really wish they'd import them. home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/lcpickup.jpg

+1.  Ops

Quoted: Quoted: I want a diesel dual cab 4x4 hilux... I like its fuel economy and torque. those are nice, but the Land Cruiser pickup is a better truck, and available with the 6cyl diesel in addition to the 4cyl you're stuck with if you get the hilux. You can also get dual tanks, and a snorkel with the LC... Dammit, I really wish they'd import them. home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/lcpickup.jpg

+1

I'd very happily take either of them.  Its really annoying that the work horse landcruisers are not available here anymore, plus you can get them with window vents. Why the hell don't trucks here have window vents anymore? Is there a law against them or something?

I love our 2500 QC 2wd cummins 600. I driven the 4x4 too. They are awesome trucks. The powerstroke is awesome too. They are a toss up really.

Quoted: Hard to describe. It drives like a truck half its weight. Stops extremely well. Looks like they went to larger rotors. calipers, and pads for 05 vs 04, as 16 inch rims wont fit. Only 17 or larger. Ride is awesome to me. Nice and stiff, but I have the towing package and off road package mind you with the heavy springs and Rancho shocks.

I smoked the brakes on my brothers 04. I ran her through the twisties and when I came to a stop sing the smoke rolled off the brakes. Bigger brakes are definitely better

I ought to run down to the dealership and test drive one. If I do get another Ford, it would definitely be the 6.0 with the Torqshift. I hate the damn 4R100 in the previous trucks. Go to Banks for some go fast goodies, lift, 38s, gears, air lockers....I need to put in some overtime.

I would not go back to a gas pickup for anything. Had My Cummins/Dodge W250 for a while now and just love it. Wish I could use it for my everyday work truck but My company requires a van --- next van I buy will be Diesel --turbo Diesel if one of the big 3 makes one. Since I spend alot of time every day on the road all over SW PA the savings in fuel costs would be substantial not to mention the longevity and power gains of a diesel, would save me despite the higher overall maintenence costs ( not really an issue as I have to maintain the gas powered van too or eat repair bills if I neglect it) As a work truck a Diesel 3/4 or 1 ton truck or van for Me is a choice between pay more now for the truck/maintence or pay more later in fuel/repairs and earlier replacement.  Of course I have been seeing alot more Sprinters and Freightliner vans on the road lately....

There are some good deals to be had right now on the '04s. A dealer quoted me last week $23.6k for a loaded, single cab, XLT, Triton 5.4, F250, 4x4, 2004. It was brand new w/3.6 miles on it. MSRP $34,500. I was sitting on the idea, but decided the deal still wasn't good enough, and if I make the leap, I'm getting the Power Stroke.

The dealer called me monday to tell me a guy traded his '01 Crew Cab F350 for it. You snoze, you lose.

Dealers are trying to move their '04s. Also, the Power Stroke is a $5,000 option.

Quoted: ... Struggled with that question too a few months ago. My summary? ... I will not go back to gas in a truck. ... and another shameless plug for posting a pic of her: members.cox.net/winston_wolf/flare.jpg members.cox.net/winston_wolf/cat.jpg

Ummmm, someone stole your driver's side fender flares.

Quoted: Quoted: ... Struggled with that question too a few months ago. My summary? ... I will not go back to gas in a truck. ... and another shameless plug for posting a pic of her: members.cox.net/winston_wolf/flare.jpg members.cox.net/winston_wolf/cat.jpg Ummmm, someone stole your driver's side fender flares.

... The pics aren't in chronologic order. Also, the Cummins logo is in a different place

although i am a chevy guy, I think the ford diesels are better-  kinda noisy for me

why do you have a cat plate on the front of a truck with a cummins under the hood. I have a 2002 dodge 2500 with  the cummins. 55,000 and I will never own another gas burner.
Cummins Real Trucks Rattle

Chevy diesels scare me.

We are good friends with the family that owns the local Chevy dealership.  Their son-in-law has had two brand new Chevy diesels in the last three years.  Both have spent a huge amount of time in the shop.

I have been using a Chevy pickup for serious driving for almost two years now.  If I had a choice I wouldn't again.  I am talking about serious off the pavement use here.  They will not hold up well at all.
We are running 600-1000 miles a week and the Chevys are crumbling like you can't believe.

Quoted: why do you have a cat plate on the front of a truck with a cummins under the hood. I have a 2002 dodge 2500 with  the cummins. 55,000 and I will never own another gas burner. Cummins Real Trucks Rattle

... The new ones don't rattle bad, beside a truck sounding and smelling like diesel is nothing to be ashamed of. And when that turbocharger kicks in, it produces wood as a by-product.

... The CAT diamond-checker license plate just looked cool I thought, some symbology there.

I love diesels. They dont make then in Expeditions though unfortunately.
My grandfather uses a diesel to pull cattle trailers and his 5th wheel. Before that he had a Chevy 2500 with a 454 (201 or 02, cant remember). It pulled, but would downshift and wrap up to get moving. His new 2500HD diesel PULLS and you dont even know its doing it. Very smooth.
I personally am a Ford guy. But in the end I can assure you one thing. Any of the Big 3 diesels make gobs more power then you'll need. I'd look at other factors besides the rated hp/tq to make my decision.

And in case someone says diesels arent fast.... hows 11 seconds sound?

http://fusionwaste.com/Files/Video/Misc/F350%20drag.wmv

Very nice Hawkeye!

Quoted: You are three thousand dollars at the Banks dealership away from racing a Corvette...and winning. A diesel pickup can make almost 350 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels and still get decent mileage. And thats with almost 25 percent drivetrain loss.

What, a 1979 Corvette?

Please - I'm going to need some backup for that claim.


350 hp is LESS than the Corvette.  Yes, the torque is massive, but the vehicle is heavy and diesels don't rev fast.

So, got some backup?


(and don't tell me about their 222 mph race truck, that's a purpose built vehicle)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I want a diesel dual cab 4x4 hilux... I like its fuel economy and torque. those are nice, but the Land Cruiser pickup is a better truck, and available with the 6cyl diesel in addition to the 4cyl you're stuck with if you get the hilux. You can also get dual tanks, and a snorkel with the LC... Dammit, I really wish they'd import them. home.comcast.net/~c.duarte/lcpickup.jpg +1 I'd very happily take either of them.  Its really annoying that the work horse landcruisers are not available here anymore, plus you can get them with window vents. Why the hell don't trucks here have window vents anymore? Is there a law against them or something?

The landie is a better workhorse, but I dont need a workhorse.  I want a Hilux cos its cheaper, more available, can seat more people, looks better, etc.  You can also stick a snorket on a Hilux.

Do you guys think anyone will ever offer an F150/1500 size pickup with a diesel?

First let me say I don't have one...but I lust after one.

A friend just purchased a 4x4 Ford F-250 with the 6.0 and it is the most powerful truck I've ever ridden in.  When he hit the gas it was like riding on a damn rocket!

Very well appointed and quiet too.

He paid a pretty good chunk of change...but that is one nice truck.  When my Ranger 4x4 finally rides off to truck heaven one of those big ones is going to follow me home too.

2001 8.1L chevy 2500HD 96,500 miles, and somehow it's not crumbling apart.............

2004 duramax chevy 2500HD 27,000 miles and its all in one piece too, bully dog 95hp programmer, exhaust and intake work as well.  DO THIS!!!!!!!  the programmer has given the damn thing awesome power and UPPED the gas mileage by 3mpg!

Quoted: 2001 8.1L chevy 2500HD 96,500 miles, and somehow it's not crumbling apart............. 2004 duramax chevy 2500HD 27,000 miles and its all in one piece too, bully dog 95hp programmer, exhaust and intake work as well.  DO THIS!!!!!!!  the programmer has given the damn thing awesome power and UPPED the gas mileage by 3mpg!

Did your engine mods void the powertrain warranty?

Quoted: First let me say I don't have one...but I lust after one. A friend just purchased a 4x4 Ford F-250 with the 6.0 and it is the most powerful truck I've ever ridden in.  When he hit the gas fuel it was like riding on a damn rocket!

I love mine. 2001 Ford F-250, 4x4 auto trans.

I drive about 25K a year.

I get 13mpg with an 8, 000lb trailer, average 18mpg.

We just drove 2700 miles, Idaho to southern California, San Diego, Tiajuana, Vegas and then home to Idaho. 19.4mpg, no trailer

As others have mentioned it does cost a bit more to maintain a diesel. Oil change is every 5k, runs about $35 do-it-yourself

Quoted: Quoted: 2001 8.1L chevy 2500HD 96,500 miles, and somehow it's not crumbling apart............. 2004 duramax chevy 2500HD 27,000 miles and its all in one piece too, bully dog 95hp programmer, exhaust and intake work as well.  DO THIS!!!!!!!  the programmer has given the damn thing awesome power and UPPED the gas mileage by 3mpg! Did your engine mods void the powertrain warranty?

the beauty of a programmer is that if it ever needs to go to the shop you can put the factory program back in and they should be none the wiser................

Quoted: What do you guys think of diesel powered 4x4 pickups in general?

The 6.0 Ford Powerstroke has issues. It's not their best deisel effort.

The Cummins engine Dodge uses is just about bulletproof, and nicely strong. Dodge has had trouble keeping transmissions behind it though.

The Duramax is proving itself to be a good engine. It takes electronic power upgrades ("chipping it") better than any other engine. Couple it with the Allison transmission and you have an excellent combination. The Bosch fuel injectors are the only recurring concern I've heard, and it's not a common problem. The Dodge Cummins is now using this same Bosch injector system.

As for the rest of the truck, Chevy and GMC generally have a better ride and other ammenities. I also like their overall design quality, especially over the Fords which seem cheap. Dodges tend to be smaller inside, though I like their overall look. The front end of the Chevys is a bit weird - I like the styling of the 2000-2001 years better. I don't like the added height of the Fords - it makes it tough to reach over the rail into the bed.

I have a 2500HD, Duramax/Allison, crew cab, long bed. It's my first deisel, and I like it a LOT better than I thought I would. I went diesel because I had to, not because I wanted to. This big@ss truck gets over 20 MPG on the highway when I'm not towing, and 17.x MPG in city traffic. I do not have the 4x4 since 99% of my driving is on pavement. The Eaton locking differential has solved any traction problems I've had. For $650 I put a chip in it and this truck is now deceptively fast. Once you get past the turbo spool-up, it will out-accelerate most vehicles on the street. People driving riced-out imports hate losing to big "slow" trucks.

Quoted: Quoted: You are three thousand dollars at the Banks dealership away from racing a Corvette...and winning. A diesel pickup can make almost 350 horsepower and 650 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels and still get decent mileage. And thats with almost 25 percent drivetrain loss. What, a 1979 Corvette? Please - I'm going to need some backup for that claim. 350 hp is LESS than the Corvette.  Yes, the torque is massive, but the vehicle is heavy and diesels don't rev fast. So, got some backup? (and don't tell me about their 222 mph race truck, that's a purpose built vehicle)

The afforementioned Cummins Ford (custom job) runs 11.42 on the quarter--crew cab long bed on 36 inch all terrains. A Duramax with 900 pound feet, which is still in the bolt on category, runs around 12 seconds, according to ATS or TTS, forget who ran it. [email protected], Z06@12+, [email protected]+.

Anybody running propane? I want to hear about it.

somebody say propane?

Quoted: Quoted: <-------------F-350 Powerstroke What he said!!!! Ford!!!!

I work for International at the INDY plant where we build the powerstrokes for Ford, and I can tell you the new engine is awesome pretty much the best we have built to date.
The newest engine that is being tested and going through R&D right now is going to be even better.
Once we got past the growing pains it turned out to be a great engine The 6.0 liter that is.
 the milaege is pretty good on the 2004 6.0 a freind of mine just picked one up and is telling me that on the interstate he is getting 21 mpg with the chip upgrade.

Quoted: I love diesels. They dont make then in Expeditions though unfortunately. My grandfather uses a diesel to pull cattle trailers and his 5th wheel. Before that he had a Chevy 2500 with a 454 (201 or 02, cant remember). It pulled, but would downshift and wrap up to get moving. His new 2500HD diesel PULLS and you dont even know its doing it. Very smooth. I personally am a Ford guy. But in the end I can assure you one thing. Any of the Big 3 diesels make gobs more power then you'll need. I'd look at other factors besides the rated hp/tq to make my decision. And in case someone says diesels arent fast.... hows 11 seconds sound? http://fusionwaste.com/Files/Video/Misc/F350%20drag.wmv

Right now we are in negotiations with ford to build a V6 powerstrke that will be used in F150's as well as Expeditions and other lighter duty vehicles, with our new green Deisel technology they will also be more environmentaly freindly. We have already produced a few V6's for testing and are just waiting for the deal to put them out hopefully through Ford.  Our huntsville plant is already to start up production.

Quoted: Quoted: I love diesels. They dont make then in Expeditions though unfortunately. My grandfather uses a diesel to pull cattle trailers and his 5th wheel. Before that he had a Chevy 2500 with a 454 (201 or 02, cant remember). It pulled, but would downshift and wrap up to get moving. His new 2500HD diesel PULLS and you dont even know its doing it. Very smooth. I personally am a Ford guy. But in the end I can assure you one thing. Any of the Big 3 diesels make gobs more power then you'll need. I'd look at other factors besides the rated hp/tq to make my decision. And in case someone says diesels arent fast.... hows 11 seconds sound? http://fusionwaste.com/Files/Video/Misc/F350%20drag.wmv Right now we are in negotiations with ford to build a V6 powerstrke that will be used in F150's as well as Expeditions and other lighter duty vehicles, with our new green Deisel technology they will also be more environmentaly freindly. We have already produced a few V6's for testing and are just waiting for the deal to put them out hopefully through Ford.  Our huntsville plant is already to start up production.

Sweet

I also heard that Nissan plans on offering a turbo-dielsel in their Titans in 2007.  Any one know if that's true?

R

Quoted: I also heard that Nissan plans on offering a turbo-dielsel in their Titans in 2007.  Any one know if that's true? R

Nissan was in the Indy plant last week touring our facility. They are also a company we are in negotiations with for the V6. So it really depends on who jumps first on who is going to have it. Right now the company is trying to figure a way to sell to both.

If you tow/carry heavy loads/put on LOTS of miles you can justify a diesel and probably need one. The $4k that you pay for it is not justifiable for a grocery getter, unless you have the discretionary income and just WANT one. That same $4k will buy about 30,000 miles worth of gasoline at todays prices(assuming 13mpg ave for gas burner).Thats one to two years worth of fuel for the average driver .Fuel mileages/ consumption rates for diesels are often deceptively quoted or erroneously calculated by those who have spent the $4k( or are selling them) and are attempting to justify the expense.The last two trucks I've had  had onboard computers that calculate fuel mileage constantly. When towing, running empty,loaded or idling at a drive through window or in traffic. They both average(d) 14.5 to 15.5 mpg ( over the course of 100k mi)using this method. I consider this to be ACTUAL fuel mileage/consumption. Since I have not owned/driven a gas engine truck since before 1989 I can't quote any actual fuel consumption figures base on real experience for comparison. Moral of that story is you WON'T get your money back in fuel consumption unless you put on a hell of a lot of miles, regardless of what the salesman tells you. Additionally if you live in cold climates (which I thankfully do not) diesels can be hard to start and take a looooong time to warm up unless you plug them in. This is why they ALL come with a block heater. Even with that, fuel gelling in the return lines can still be a problem without proper additives (more $).

Filters, oil changes are condiderably more expensive with the diesels. The older Fords lost many engines because of deffective breather element box design, which has been changed on the 6.0l but the new element costs $50 +/-. Typical oil change at qwickie lube(generic terminology) for gas burner $29. Typical oil change at same place with diesel $59. That means you will spend about $1300 more maintaining a diesel than a gas in 150k miles( assuming you change oil at 3,500 mi intervals).

So now you have spent $5300 (unadjusted for interest paid unless a cash purchase) and if you don't NEED the extra torque or put on LOTS of miles you have just pissed this money away. Why?Because by the time you sell it you will not recover that money through mileage or elevated resale value for diesel.Disels do have an increased trade/resale value but onlt appreciably so at low mileage. Which means you have taken the HUGE hit in depreciation early on in the life of the vehicle and have to get out of it for some reason.Or you have more money than sense.

As for the new breed of trucks I think that from a purely engine standpoint that the Cummins is the way to fly. I understand from reliable sources( from which I formulate my opinion) that the 6.0l Fords are very problematic. The GMC/Isuzu is hell for stout but has experienced oil leakage problems as well as injector problems at relatively low mileage( under 100k). I think that as they turn these engines up to compete on the horsepower/torque playing field that durability and fuel mileage/consumption will continue to suffer and without these factors what good is a diesel?

I am 6'6" and am not uncomfortable in any of them in interior room. These are all personal preference and across the board a wash.

In proof reading this post I realise that it comes off as anti-diesel. This is not the case at all as I have driven nothing but diesels for 15+ years. I need them and use them.I recommend them for the purposes listed above. I also supose that they have practical use as a phallic extension, or to combat Napolean Syndrome as I commonly see them used for this purpose

All of the above is purely my opinion and quite obviously your opinion may vary. Most particularly if you sell pick up trucks for a living