Well?

When we do a Form 1 or 4 do we still need the CLEO sign-off?

They are working on it

What made you think they stopped that?

you do realize you're talking about the ATF right?

IBTSS

Actually, they did AGREE to end CLEO signoffs in exchange for a few things.

DOJ still has to agree.

Mike

in on one!

Uh-oh, what few things are we giving away in exchange?


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Mike,



I never caught the "exchange" part.  What are we exchanging?



Nick



 

Yeah, do we have any reliable sources?

I haven't seen anything in writing whatsoever.

If the CLEO sign-off goes, there will be a lot of people with new toys.

There's been a thread in the Class 3 section for a little bit.  This is the first I've heard of any kind of "exchange" though.





 

Just a copy from a post on Subguns.com,NFA discussion board.

Folks,
Glad to see the enthusiasm building. I am the person who penned the original citation. I am not the President of NFATCA, though. I am the Executive Director.

We have been hammering away at this for years and have finally achieved enough traction to get this out of ATF and onto DoJ's desk. This has *never* happened in previous efforts and should be considered a milestone. While it is not a done deal, all signs are looking good. And I would not be surprised to see positive action by DoJ before the end of the year. Some background:

ATF had previously fought the removal of the signature requirement for a variety of reasons. Some of those made a little sense, some made none, and others were just statements of what is. Several things have happened between now and then. First and foremost is the Heller and McDonald decisions by SCOTUS. Situations that intentionally deprive people of their Constitutional rights are being scrutinized a bit differently these days. But for a signature, folks who are legally able to acquire these items cannot and have no recourse or due process. That's dicey in this day and age. More importantly, folks figured out that they could legally form trusts and other legal person constructs to eliminate the signature provision. There are still very good reasons for going this route, but we were able to prove that convicted felons and the like (otherwise know as prohibited persons) were coming into possession of both Title I ans II weapons by using this route. That put ATF in the unenviable position of approving transfers that they shouldn't have.

Now we have NICs and much better systems and the idea is to utilize the best systems that we currently have and not perpetuate a system that serves no purpose. Moreover, that federal requirement for the signature was not supported at the local level: "fulfill this federal obligation using your local resources" doesn't sit well with Sheriffs. So now the gist is to have the NFA form behave like an FFL form. The Sheriff gets notified and there's not a damn thing he/she can do about it. I doubt many Sheriffs are gonna go through the pain of setting up a shiny new filing system to track bad guns in their jurisdictions because the funds just are not there. The NICS thing being done on the physical transfer for a trust, corp, etc. is, IMO, a good idea.

This is not a done deal yet. But it is getting close. And the net result is that a whole lot of folks that have never been able to own these weapons are going to be able to do so without having to go kiss the ring of a CLEO. I think that is good for all of us. I'm happy to answer questions if I can...

Few pages about it here http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=334662&light=

Oh really?
IBLW303 get here to explain how this is a bad idea.

Cool.

Just use a trust, no sign off needed.

This is a bad thing. Trusts are great because of the privacy you get, but not with this "exchange". If The sheriff won't sign normally, why would you want him informed of who has NFA? Bad, bad idea.

Agreed. If the CLEO won't sign, he'd probably put you in the "high risk" database. SWAT will be sent the next time your alarm goes off by accident.

It would be bad for your dogs and your door hinges, at the very least.

So the ATF has the power to change Federal law.....law that has been in place since 1934 and y'all think this is a good thing. Those fuckers should be FOLLOWING the law, not making them.

Change the law or mandate the ATF to enforce the shit that is written. This is what gives the the power to make shit up as they go along.

In CT we have to fill out a DPS 3 for all NFA transfers and for pistols/longguns purchased from a FFL and for private sale of pistols within the state. So our LEOs are notified of these purchases anyways.

This seems like a win - win at least to me. Even though my CLEO signs while I wait and the fingerprinting is done on Sundays free of charge.

You must me new around here...

Kidding, I agree, but they (like many other agencies) have been given "rulemaking authority" by Congress. The rules are supposed to be consistent with the Code, but...

As of right now you still need it. Unless you do the trust or LLC, but that wasn't your question. They are working on trying to get rid of it. We shall see.

I realize that the present NFA transfer protocol antedates establishment of NICS, but I cannot for the life of me see why NFA sales cannot take place OTC with a call-in, tax stamps being handled by the merchant. They would (or certainly could) retain their de facto registration by having copies of the NFA form sent in to their headquarters in the Fyfe Memorial Building.

Have a significant number of people been cleared through NICS and later determined on the basis of a fingerprint examination to be disqualified?

I heard someplace that they were also talking of removing the need for a Demo letter in order to get a post sample?? Anyone have any info??

Those are changes that most everyone could live with.

What about fingerprint cards. If they don't do away with fingerprint cards too, it's still a trip to a LEO agency.

my CLEO is cool, he signs off on all my stuff within 24 hours.

Agreed with Rhude. Around here the first thing you have to be to become a sheriff is a politician. Some of us are not fortunate to have a sheriff who has their principles above their politics 100% of the time. I've seen many examples of this on a local level and is a prime motivator for my choice of a Trust/LLC. I don't care whether my CLEO will sign off or not. I don't want him involved or taking notes in my collecting of firearms, particularly things regulated by the NFA.




ETA: I do see this as a huge improvement for the person who just goes and does a sign-off though. Please leave the trust/llc's out of the notification though. If it's not done now why does it need to start now?





 

Crossing my fingers.

I think I would still go though the trust route as any member of my family that's on the trust will be able to access my class III stuff.