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Posted: 9/7/2004 7:18:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 7:29:19 PM EST by NYPatriot]
Heard this in passing on the Bob Grant show earlier today, but I didn't hear a source for the info.

Is this true, and if so how can he justify this position on either moral or practical grounds???

I mean he is unambiguously saying that a fetus is a living human baby, but it is perfectly all right to kill that child at the discretion of another person?!?!?!

How is his position not the advocacy of murder? How is it no one is bringing this matter up?

If true, Bush REALLY needs to bring this up during the debates... Kerry will be toast!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:22:13 PM EST
Yes it is true.

Of course, it is a perfectly logical position...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:49:32 PM EST
Yeah and he is pro-second amendment too.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:55:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:22:59 PM EST by NYPatriot]
I don't know if I'm late to the game on this issue, but I find it INCREDIBLE that any legitimate presidential candidate could hold this as his stated & documentable position on the subject of abortion!

I mean the man's official stance is that killing children is morally & legally permissible?!?!?! He knows they are innocent living human beings, yet he sees nothing wrong with a doctor dismembering them, and discarding their body parts as medical waste.

He doesn’t hide behind the "they are only fetuses & not babies yet" argument! He actually knows they are children & he STILL advocates their MURDER?!?!?!

I guess I shouldn’t be in shock, but I am...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:56:11 PM EST
Flip Flop
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:01:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
He actually knows they are children & he STILL advocates their MURDER?!?!?!



What can you expect from someone who turned against his own people in a time of war?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:02:37 PM EST
Well this isnt the only issue kerry has two positions on. Remember "I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it."
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:14:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
Flip Flop



+1
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:15:37 PM EST
Flip\\|//Flop
Flip\\|//Flop
Flip\\|//Flop
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:17:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:24:23 PM EST by NYPatriot]
I hear you WI_Rifleman, but this goes WAY beyond election year politics... it goes to the heart of who John Kerry is as a human being!

He advocates the MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDERN!!! There is no other reasonable or logical way to interpret his stance. The man has no soul, and possesses the cold heart of a monster... there is no other explanation!!!

As a man, he is on par with murderous sub-human Muslim insects who slaughtered those Russian children in their classrooms!

This is not hyperbole on my part. This isn't me slinging mud in hopes of getting my preferred candidate elected president. This is a genuine awakening on my part... an epiphany if you will.

I see John Kerry with new eyes, and what I see utterly & completely disgusts me!

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:18:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
He actually knows they are children & he STILL advocates their MURDER?!?!?!



What can you expect from someone who turned against his own people in a time of war?



Several times...

I was for the Vietnam war, before I was against it...

I was against war in Iraq, then I was for war in Iraq, and then against it again...

I support the 2nd Ammendment, but I want to ban guns...

Is there ANYTHING this man doesn't have 2 positions on?

Maybe John Edwards sees BOTH Americas for a running mate (one where Kerry is for an issue, the other where he is against it)???

Flip-Flop Flip-Flop Flop-Flop!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:20:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
He advocates the MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDERN!!!



I agree, I hate to see the murder of childern. Of course, some of those childern might grow up to be liberal presidential candidates, so in those rare instances I support abortion.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:21:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

I see John Kerry with new eyes, and what I see utterly & completely disgusts me!




It's funny how different people get ticked off by different things. For me, it was reading Unfit for Command. Set me off in all kinds of ways.

Not that this little comment of his escaped my notice....

He is a complete scumbag, unworthy of ......... ANYTHING good.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:36:14 PM EST
You heard it right. Maybe he is trying to appeal to the religious vote, and appeal to the Demo base like "safe, legal, and rare" did. Hey, it worked for Slick.

More ominously, perhaps he means what he says. Back in the day I used to get into the prolife/choice thing, and I started hearing and reading more of that "yes, it is a life. Kill it if you wish" way of thinking. It is a drastic thing to admit, but at least it is intellectually honest.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:37:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By pogo:
You heard it right. Maybe he is trying to appeal to the religious vote, and appeal to the Demo base like "safe, legal, and rare" did. Hey, it worked for Slick.

More ominously, perhaps he means what he says. Back in the day I used to get into the prolife/choice thing, and I started hearing and reading more of that "yes, it is a life. Kill it if you wish" way of thinking. It is a drastic thing to admit, but at least it is intellectually honest.



So do you think JK could be intelectually honest in saying, "I believe in the 2nd amendment but I want to ban all rifle ammunition."
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:39:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

He doesn’t hide behind the "they are only fetuses & not babies yet" argument! He actually knows they are children & he STILL advocates their MURDER?!?!?!

I guess I shouldn’t be in shock, but I am...



ANyone with 1/2 a moral knows that abortion is ALL about killing babies.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:45:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By WI_Rifleman:
Well this isnt the only issue kerry has two positions on. Remember "I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it."




Yeah, he's trying to be everyone for everybody. If you're a gay transexual Jewish nun from Asia, why, John Kerry has a platform to fit your views.


Although personally, I view HIS view is worse than any basic pro-abortion view.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:49:39 PM EST
Democrats are WHORES>

They will say WHATEVER they think will get them elected.

As opposed to running on principle


- BG


PS. They are worse whores than gun mag writers
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:54:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Democrats are WHORES>

They will say WHATEVER they think will get them elected.

As opposed to running on principle


You mean like Alan Keyes?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:57:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
Democrats are WHORES>

They will say WHATEVER they think will get them elected.

As opposed to running on principle


You mean like Alan Keyes?



Hey if keyes says i can own a machine gun he has my vote.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 2:38:03 AM EST
Kerry never ceases to amaze me. Life begins at conception, but we should still be able to exterminate that life?

That makes him WORSE than the rest of the abortionists. They at least don't "think" they are killing a new life when they support abortion.

There is NO justification for someone who thinks the child IS a life and yet still wants them dead...
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:00:51 AM EST
fairly simple for some out here.

Well, not everyone is a god fearing person, you, go and have your beliefs, don't impose them on the rest of us.

No one forcing you or yours to abort the unwanted pregnancy in your families time, Why would you force your ideals and religion on them?

Amazingly the ELF destroys property and they're a terrorist organization.
The AOG murders people and make bombs and performs assasinations But don't make the terrorist group list.
go figure.............................

Chris


Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
I hear you WI_Rifleman, but this goes WAY beyond election year politics... it goes to the heart of who John Kerry is as a human being!

He advocates the MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDERN!!! There is no other reasonable or logical way to interpret his stance. The man has no soul, and possesses the cold heart of a monster... there is no other explanation!!!

As a man, he is on par with murderous sub-human Muslim insects who slaughtered those Russian children in their classrooms!

This is not hyperbole on my part. This isn't me slinging mud in hopes of getting my preferred candidate elected president. This is a genuine awakening on my part... an epiphany if you will.

I see John Kerry with new eyes, and what I see utterly & completely disgusts me!


Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:01:32 AM EST
the guy is a fricken scumbag
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:02:57 AM EST
He said that a few months ago. He's also Catholic (or says he is). All I see in him is a confused mind full of contradictory statements.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:28:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
fairly simple for some out here.

Well, not everyone is a god fearing person, you, go and have your beliefs, don't impose them on the rest of us.

No one forcing you or yours to abort the unwanted pregnancy in your families time, Why would you force your ideals and religion on them?

Amazingly the ELF destroys property and they're a terrorist organization.
The AOG murders people and make bombs and performs assasinations But don't make the terrorist group list.
go figure.............................

Chris


Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
I hear you WI_Rifleman, but this goes WAY beyond election year politics... it goes to the heart of who John Kerry is as a human being!

He advocates the MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDERN!!! There is no other reasonable or logical way to interpret his stance. The man has no soul, and possesses the cold heart of a monster... there is no other explanation!!!

As a man, he is on par with murderous sub-human Muslim insects who slaughtered those Russian children in their classrooms!

This is not hyperbole on my part. This isn't me slinging mud in hopes of getting my preferred candidate elected president. This is a genuine awakening on my part... an epiphany if you will.

I see John Kerry with new eyes, and what I see utterly & completely disgusts me!





??

Are you agreeing that if life begins at conception someone still has the right to exterminate that life?
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:37:02 AM EST
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:39:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
He said that a few months ago. He's also Catholic (or says he is). All I see in him is a confused mind full of contradictory statements.




CINO - Catholic in name only.

He is the best friggin candidate the Republicans have had to run against in years. Fritz Mondale and Dukakis look like members of the Moral Majority compared to this idiot.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:41:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris




That's one hell of a belief. You oughta check out a neo-natal unit in a hospital sometime.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:44:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 3:50:56 AM EST by NYPatriot]
Virginia22, WTH are you talking about???

Who said anything about forcing one's moral or religious beliefs on YOU? I'm talking about Kerry, who subscribes to the belief that life begins at conception (his own words, nobody forced him to say or believe this), yet he favors the killing of what he admits are unborn CHILDERN.

Don't you see a logical disconnect in his stated positions?



Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:52:24 AM EST
Do you wish to make abortion illegal NY patriot?

then yes, you are.

And this statement
"Don't you see a logical disconnect in his stated positions? "

I see a person of religion who will not inflict that view on to other free Americans based on his personal religious beliefs.
as one who doesn't follow god or view the bible as more than just a book. I appreciate it.



Bay eagle, they are living outside the womb, are they not?



Chris
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 3:58:35 AM EST
Virginia22, it's obvious you are itching for a fight on this issue & I'm not going to scratch that itch for you.

Good luck in baiting someone else into a heated little flame war.

Just one question for you however... who are you voting for this November???
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:07:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris



Ok. First of all, the smart a$$ quotient on that is off the scale.

Second, freedom is something I love. Cheif among these freedoms is the right to LIFE. All other rights stem from that one.

You are certainly entitled to think that the child is not "alive" until outside the mother's womb. But what, praytell, justifies that position? What significant biological or mental development happens in that last few inches of birth canal at 9 months that transforms the "blob of flesh" into a child?

Anyone who has studied human development knows the answer to that question.

Your concept of "fanatacism" based on your statements in this thread and others:

Thinking illegal drugs are a detriment to society and should be left illegal
Thinking that Christ represents freedom
Thinking that when we define an innocent human life, that we should not take it

Simply AMAZING.

You can believe whatever you want. That the sky is green and the grass is blue, and that the Easter Bunny really killed JFK. Knock yourself out.

But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook.

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:10:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Do you wish to make abortion illegal NY patriot?

then yes, you are.

And this statement
"Don't you see a logical disconnect in his stated positions? "

I see a person of religion who will not inflict that view on to other free Americans based on his personal religious beliefs.
as one who doesn't follow god or view the bible as more than just a book. I appreciate it.



Bay eagle, they are living outside the womb, are they not?



Chris



What I see is a person who thinks that what happens in abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, and is just fine with that.

That is the moral equvalent of saying it is OK to walk up to a stroller and blow away an infant on the day he/she is born. Life is life, and taking that life is murder.

If we can't "force" morality about not killing innocent people "down people's throats", then what exactly DOES government have a right to enforce?
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:10:24 AM EST
Does NOT surprise me, Kerry has his head up his A**, no doubt about it!

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:10:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Virginia22, it's obvious you are itching for a fight on this issue & I'm not going to scratch that itch for you.

Good luck in baiting someone else into a heated little flame war.

Just one question for you however... who are you voting for this November???



DU strikes again....
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:16:54 AM EST
Not itching for anything. BUT your religious overtones seem to suggest your reasoning, and you CAN NOT make that decission for the rest of us out here.

Kerry seems to think when he seperates his religion from the job being sought. some can do that, some MUST interject that on others to save them.

Now,
Why should I answer your questions, you've not answered mine.

it won't be Bush or kerry.

Chris
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:22:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

He doesn’t hide behind the "they are only fetuses & not babies yet" argument! He actually knows they are children & he STILL advocates their MURDER?!?!?!

I guess I shouldn’t be in shock, but I am...



ANyone with 1/2 a moral knows that abortion is ALL about killing babies.

SGatr15



Killing babies for birth control---a heiness crime!
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:22:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 4:23:58 AM EST by NYPatriot]
Virginia22...


Blah, blah, blah, blah...


Naw... you're not itching for a fight in the least.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:24:47 AM EST
No smart ass remark at all. my firm and just opinion in fact. just as yours.

"But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook."

only gods path is ok, correct? be honest. My outlook is freedom, nothing more.my outlook may in fact be "warped" but at least I'm no fanatic.

You don't believe in abortion. Fine, don't go have one performed. but do not tell the many others out here, NO, just because of your stance and where it comes from. neither side should be "forced" especially for some religious belief.
So far, NOONE has ever tried to force you and yours to have one, why is it fine for you to force others?
freedom huh?

for some I suppose.


and you never answered the question on your religious "preference"

Chris

­

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris



Ok. First of all, the smart a$$ quotient on that is off the scale.

Second, freedom is something I love. Cheif among these freedoms is the right to LIFE. All other rights stem from that one.

You are certainly entitled to think that the child is not "alive" until outside the mother's womb. But what, praytell, justifies that position? What significant biological or mental development happens in that last few inches of birth canal at 9 months that transforms the "blob of flesh" into a child?

Anyone who has studied human development knows the answer to that question.

Your concept of "fanatacism" based on your statements in this thread and others:

Thinking illegal drugs are a detriment to society and should be left illegal
Thinking that Christ represents freedom
Thinking that when we define an innocent human life, that we should not take it

Simply AMAZING.

You can believe whatever you want. That the sky is green and the grass is blue, and that the Easter Bunny really killed JFK. Knock yourself out.

But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook.


Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:25:52 AM EST
Ahhh, the never ending DU comparison.
SIGH

try again

Chris


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Virginia22, it's obvious you are itching for a fight on this issue & I'm not going to scratch that itch for you.

Good luck in baiting someone else into a heated little flame war.

Just one question for you however... who are you voting for this November???



DU strikes again....

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:26:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Not itching for anything. BUT your religious overtones seem to suggest your reasoning, and you CAN NOT make that decission for the rest of us out here.

Kerry seems to think when he seperates his religion from the job being sought. some can do that, some MUST interject that on others to save them.

Now,
Why should I answer your questions, you've not answered mine.

it won't be Bush or kerry.

Chris



No, the facts of human development dictate that the form of life growing in the mother's womb is HUMAN. And that at any point in the process of development, the product of HUMAN reproduction isn't a SQUIRREL.

Within the 1st trimester, the child develops all the major structures of life, including a beating heart, the Central Nervous System, and measureable brain waves can be picked up in the 4th week of development. (If our equipment was more sensitive, we could pick up brain activity even sooner...)

So looking at the product of human reproduction with brain waves and a beating heart, as well as other distinctly human features, I come to the conclusion that what I am looking at is a human being. Since no human female has ever given birth to a condor or an armadillo, I think it is safe to make that deduction.

Religion, in this instance, has nothing to do with defining what I am looking at as a human life. Religion DOES dictate that since this is a human life, and the weakest and most innocent form of it at that, that I should not kill the little person.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:26:52 AM EST
Nope,
I guess you were when you started this thread?

Or just a back slapping fest?

Chris


Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Virginia22...


Blah, blah, blah, blah...


Naw... you're not itching for a fight in the least.

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:30:05 AM EST
So, you don't.

fine, I have no problems with that, BUT not everyone follows your "belief" bottom line IMHO
it's not a human til it can survive outside of the mother. til then, even the mothers own body can be rid of the "parasite" that it is until it is born.

you're Not going to convince me.


Chris


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Not itching for anything. BUT your religious overtones seem to suggest your reasoning, and you CAN NOT make that decission for the rest of us out here.

Kerry seems to think when he seperates his religion from the job being sought. some can do that, some MUST interject that on others to save them.

Now,
Why should I answer your questions, you've not answered mine.

it won't be Bush or kerry.

Chris



No, the facts of human development dictate that the form of life growing in the mother's womb is HUMAN. And that at any point in the process of development, the product of HUMAN reproduction isn't a SQUIRREL.

Within the 1st trimester, the child develops all the major structures of life, including a beating heart, the Central Nervous System, and measureable brain waves can be picked up in the 4th week of development. (If our equipment was more sensitive, we could pick up brain activity even sooner...)

So looking at the product of human reproduction with brain waves and a beating heart, as well as other distinctly human features, I come to the conclusion that what I am looking at is a human being. Since no human female has ever given birth to a condor or an armadillo, I think it is safe to make that deduction.

Religion, in this instance, has nothing to do with defining what I am looking at as a human life. Religion DOES dictate that since this is a human life, and the weakest and most innocent form of it at that, that I should not kill the little person.

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:31:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/8/2004 4:37:44 AM EST by LadyLiberty]

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris



But that's not what John Kerry said. He said he BELIEVES that lives begin at conception, but he thinks it's okay to kill them anyway. He didn't say he doesn't believe it's alive. He said he DOES believe it's alive. Isn't that scary to you?

Edited to add:

Oh, wait. Aren't you the guy who was defending the Chechen/Arab childkiller terrorists on another thread? And linking to a socialist website? That tells me all I need to know about you.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:33:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
No smart ass remark at all. my firm and just opinion in fact. just as yours.

"But truth does not bend to what you think, and do not expect the rest of humanity to govern itself by your warped outlook."

only gods path is ok, correct? be honest. My outlook is freedom, nothing more.my outlook may in fact be "warped" but at least I'm no fanatic.

You don't believe in abortion. Fine, don't go have one performed. but do not tell the many others out here, NO, just because of your stance and where it comes from. neither side should be "forced" especially for some religious belief.
So far, NOONE has ever tried to force you and yours to have one, why is it fine for you to force others?
freedom huh?

for some I suppose.


and you never answered the question on your religious "preference"

Chris



You are defining freedom as the right to take an innocent human life. You assert that it is fanatical to want to use the force of government to stop the taking of innocent life.

Your belief system is too warped to debate. If you think that a child in the birth canal about to be born is a blob of flesh, while a second later it becomes a human life, then you are too blind to see anything else. In your mind it is more acceptable to kill an 8 month pregnancy than to try and stop it. Nothing is worse than being a fanatic...

Again, the darkness in your heart that makes life all about what YOU want to do without having to face the consequences makes you blind to the truth. Thus there is no point wasting my effort in trying to show you anything.

I don't have a religious "preference". I follow Christ and Him crucified.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:33:48 AM EST
virginia22, as much as some of us don't like it abortion is ok by the law. I for one don't agree with it for religious and personal reasons. I also don't really like the people who stand on the side of the road with dead baby pictures. I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.

That being said. Since it is legal you need to be honest with yourself. If you do it, you are killing a human being.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:36:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
So, you don't.

fine, I have no problems with that, BUT not everyone follows your "belief" bottom line IMHO
it's not a human til it can survive outside of the mother. til then, even the mothers own body can be rid of the "parasite" that it is until it is born.

you're Not going to convince me.


Chris


Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Not itching for anything. BUT your religious overtones seem to suggest your reasoning, and you CAN NOT make that decission for the rest of us out here.

Kerry seems to think when he seperates his religion from the job being sought. some can do that, some MUST interject that on others to save them.

Now,
Why should I answer your questions, you've not answered mine.

it won't be Bush or kerry.

Chris



No, the facts of human development dictate that the form of life growing in the mother's womb is HUMAN. And that at any point in the process of development, the product of HUMAN reproduction isn't a SQUIRREL.

Within the 1st trimester, the child develops all the major structures of life, including a beating heart, the Central Nervous System, and measureable brain waves can be picked up in the 4th week of development. (If our equipment was more sensitive, we could pick up brain activity even sooner...)

So looking at the product of human reproduction with brain waves and a beating heart, as well as other distinctly human features, I come to the conclusion that what I am looking at is a human being. Since no human female has ever given birth to a condor or an armadillo, I think it is safe to make that deduction.

Religion, in this instance, has nothing to do with defining what I am looking at as a human life. Religion DOES dictate that since this is a human life, and the weakest and most innocent form of it at that, that I should not kill the little person.




If dependency upon the mother is the test of life, then no child is truly "alive" until they can provide their own food, water, shelter, clothing....

All children are not "alive" because they are inherently dependent.

Leave an infant in a room for a few days with no care, and the child will die. Thus according to your definition, if someone walked up to a stroller with a shotgun and blew away an infant, they were just exterminating a "parasite".

I am unable to debate someone who thinks that way.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:36:20 AM EST
Not really. As I firmly believe in what I've posted on the abortion issue.

as to kerry, what I hear is he can seperate his personal religious beliefs from our freedoms.

As it should be.

Chris




Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris



But that's not what John Kerry said. He said he BELIEVES that lives begin at conception, but he thinks it's okay to kill them anyway. He didn't say he doesn't believe it's alive. He said he DOES believe it's alive. Isn't that scary to you?

Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:36:48 AM EST




Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:38:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
I always feel like just veering off the road a little whenever I drive by them.



Why? Because they are showing the very real consequences of what is going on in the abortion clinics? Pictures of mangled babies are certainly unpleasant. But wouldn't your ire be better reserved for the people who legalize, support, and make a living mangling babies over those who merely show the consequences of such actions?

I really don't get that.
Link Posted: 9/8/2004 4:39:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Not really. As I firmly believe in what I've posted on the abortion issue.

as to kerry, what I hear is he can seperate his personal religious beliefs from our freedoms.

As it should be.

Chris




Originally Posted By LadyLiberty:

Originally Posted By virginia22:
Nope, I don't believe it's alive til it can breath outside of the mother on its own.

I firmly believe in it's none of my business or yours when this decission is made by THAT family or woman.
I can mind my own business, and not force my "fanatacisms" on another.
Can you? or is this part of your crusade too? << Just asking, not being a smart ass.

Have your beliefs,Is it really to much to ask to allow others to have our own too?
What are you catholic, baptist, etc etc. curious.

Chris



But that's not what John Kerry said. He said he BELIEVES that lives begin at conception, but he thinks it's okay to kill them anyway. He didn't say he doesn't believe it's alive. He said he DOES believe it's alive. Isn't that scary to you?




What I hear is that he lacks the moral fortitude to decide between right and wrong. And he lacks the intellectual honesty to decide ANYTHING.
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