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Posted: 9/14/2004 2:44:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:02:59 PM EST by panzersergeant]
"Senior Airman John Miller, a member of the 613th Security Forces Squadron, 613th Contingency Response Group, 36th Air Expeditionary Wing, based at Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, evades enemy fire by taking cover in tall grass as he provides security for a Humvee escort during a convoy training exercise. The unit is training with Sim-munition rounds, which are detergent-based 9mm rounds fired through a modified M-16 receiver and which provide a more realistic training environment. The rounds travel 400ft per second and leave a small color marking when a target is hit."

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:45:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 2:46:02 PM EST by Specop_007]
Makes laundry easy I guess. Hell, where can I get some. I can target practice my dirty clothes then just toss'm in the machine. Thats 2 birds with 1 stone right there!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:45:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 2:46:03 PM EST by TheRedHorseman]
detergent based=paintball fill

he's using simunition

ETA: duh, need to read more gooder

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:46:40 PM EST
Paintballs sting at 300 ft/sec. I'll bet these things leave a welt.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:47:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Groovinator:
Paintballs sting at 300 ft/sec. I'll bet these things leave a welt.



For extra fun, leave the paintballs in the freezer overnight. But I wouldnt recommend shooting your friends with them.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 2:55:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By The_Groovinator:
Paintballs sting at 300 ft/sec. I'll bet these things leave a welt.



For extra fun, leave the paintballs in the freezer overnight. But I wouldnt recommend shooting your friends with them.



Famous last words, “you don’t have a snow balls chance in hell to beat,”..... aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!

thump as the body hits the ground
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:03:11 PM EST
400 feet per second my ASS! The "official" literature lists them as going around 300 fps. The ones shot from the M4 uppers move out at around 600, as chronographed by various sources, and hurt like all get out. I consider myself somewhat of a connosieur, having been shot with several THOUSAND sim rounds over the last few years. Luckily, I have some seniority and rank now and have gladly handed off the getting shot up part of Simunitions training to newer, dumber people, and now I just stand around and critique people from screaming like little girls when the sims start flying.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:06:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:07:35 PM EST by Mauser101]
You've got to take into account the mass. Now, I don't know the mass of either a paintball (think it's 2grams) or a 9mm sim round, but you can get an idea by thinking of the diff from the size of a pball and a sim.

Paintball = .68caliber = 17.2mm
Sim = 9mm = .35caliber

So, you'd think that a Sim traveling at 400fps will hurt a hell of a lot less than a Paintball traveling at 400fps.

I've gotta find a joule calculator. That'll work it.

As reference the safe zone for airsoft is about 400-500fps. Airsoft bbs are 6mm. I think somehwere from 1-1.5 Joules is considered a pretty dang good hit.

EDIT: Are my conversions up there right? I'm working off a weird conversion table that I googled.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:17:13 PM EST
I will admit these do work for the intended application but, they are still for a feminine caliber.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:19:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:21:50 PM EST by 1Andy2]
what kind of eye protection do they wear? just regular paintball stuff?

eta: who makes that upper? I wonder if they sell to civvies. If so where can i get one!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:31:26 PM EST
getting tagged by simmunition sucks it hard


if anyone decides to use them for training, i reccomend you all take atleast one round first. after that you will treat it as very very real as nobody wants to get hit again


those little b**tards hurt more then when I got tagged for real
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:31:51 PM EST
CavArms was doing some testing/training with these awhile ago.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:32:23 PM EST
oh and wear a cup, full head, face and neck protection

then put on a couple of parkas
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:36:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:36:55 PM EST by nilatS]
.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:45:31 PM EST
The simunition projectiles are harder than paintballs so they will survive being fired.

Kharn
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 3:46:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 3:47:52 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
I tried getting Simunition FX products for the local PD almost a year ago. Simunition would not sell to me or let me pay for the shipment to the PD. They are real careful for liability reasons.

SIMUNITION

MT
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:39:24 PM EST

Bummer for you ^ ..........I got a bunch
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 4:41:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By The_Groovinator:
Paintballs sting at 300 ft/sec. I'll bet these things leave a welt.



My partner actually had one go through her t-shirt... She had a bit of blood. They do sting a fair bit, but nothing to sweat over. Good trainning aid when does properly (ie: doesn't turn into a paintball war, which has happened a few times.)
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:22:47 AM EST
I imagine they're wearing body armor and helmets like the guy in the pic. It'd probably have to thwack you pretty hard to get your attention.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:24:11 AM EST
His Aimpoint on Backwards?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:29:12 AM EST



The blue rifle is catching on!

Oh, and the face protection the airman is wearing is actually a gas mask.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 11:23:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2004 11:25:13 AM EST by natez]

Originally Posted By mac130:
cache.gettyimages.com/comp/51304407.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE7F9CD95D1136523250C1C5F2404AD­616621B2AC3A62513D3


The blue rifle is catching on!

Oh, and the face protection the airman is wearing is actually a gas mask.



Not a gas mask. That is the standard "FX8000" protective mask. If one attempte to use normal paintball-type masks with sims, you get the occasional "leaker" that splits lips, lays cheeks open or leaves scars on forehead (not to mention what it could do to an eye).

Here is a picture, with a quote from their website about those helmets.



The only approved FX® 8000 Protective Mask



Simunition® designed, tested and approved for use with FX® Marking Cartridges, the FX® 8000 Protective Mask provides excellent protection for eyes, ears, chin, face and back of the head and still allows the user to communicate during exercises.
This radical new design allows 280° peripheral vision through the scratch-resistant polycarbonate anti-fog coated visor. The shell is made of high-quality super-tough nylon. Both visor and shell are guaranteed to withstand the impact of 9 mm and .38 Special /.357 Magnum FX® Marking Cartridges . The one-size-fits-all design is lightweight, easy to adjust, remarkably comfortable and can be worn with eyeglasses. Available in black and blue. Simunition®policy requires users to wear the only approved Simunition® FX® 8000 Protective Mask when training with 9 mm FX® Marking Cartridges .


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