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Posted: 10/3/2005 2:05:55 PM EDT
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

Here is what happened. I am telling the truth, with out trying to make it sound “emotional”.

Yesterday, October 2nd 2005 a friend of mine purchased a Glock .45 that he was going to take to Iraq with him(he is in the 101st airborne and is deploying in a few days). He asked me to show him how to operated it.

The place I usually shoot at (private land) was to dangerous today because of construction so we went to the closest range in my area.

In the past when I called this range gave me smart remarks to questions pertaining to LEGAL semi-auto military small arms.

For example about two years ago I called asking about a SAR-1 and got the line “We only have REAL guns here.” I replied that it was like a AK-47 and they replied “I don’t know nothing about no SKS, AR-15, or AK-47” and hung up on me.

I have been out there before with my WASR-10, SAR-2 and a SAR-3 and never once got asked to leave or smart remarks. I have even bump fired them before.

Now fast forward to today.

We arrived at the range around 10:45 am. We paid the range fee and shot pistol for about 2 hours.

When the users of the rifle range left we took my SKS and Ruger 10/22 to the rifle range.

I wanted to show my friend I could bump fire a 10/22 from the shoulder. I bumped one 10 round magazine off.

The range owner (or employee, not to sure) came out side the office and asked me if I had a full-auto. I told him No politely that I was just bump firing off the trigger.

He then stated, “Ok guys, 1 shoot per second please” and went inside.

Obeying the rules (in the past I was never told this) we took are time with the SKS and where hitting targets out at 200 yards.

About this time a Sheriff deputy showed up. He was walking along the line with the range guy (the one who told us 1 shoot per second) as we had just finished shooting pistol again.

We packed are gear up and departed (mind you there was about a 5-10 min period when the deputy was there talking to this guy).

About 2 mins after we got onto highway 46 I look in the mirror and see the Deputies cruiser with his lights on. We pull off the road and I was thinking all shit, we have all these guns in the car and now we are going to have to explain to them they are not Full-Auto.

I roll down my window and the Deputy has his hand ready to draw his gun on us.

He has us stick our hands out the window and told us no sudden movements. He has me open the car door from the outside on the left hand side and get out. Which I can not because the seat belt is on and I was afraid to take it off thinking I would go for a gun.

I told him what was wrong and he gave me permission to do so. Once I got out of the car he had me walk backwards about 30 feet from my vehicle and lay on the roof of the squad car while he frisked me.

He asked,

“How many guns are in the car and what are the locations”

I replied,

“6 sir, all in the back seat.”

He then got my friend out of the car and had him do the same thing by walking backwards.

He asked,

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”

I replied,

“No”

He then asked,

“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

I replied,

“I don’t have a full-auto weapon, it is semi-auto”

He replied,

“Well I have TWO retired police officers that say you do”

I replied,

“I was bumping my Ruger 10/22 off of my finder”

He replied,

“Well which case is it in”

I replied,

“The grey one”

He takes it out and is messing with and he asked again are you sure its full-auto.

I told him no and that I could show him.

He replied with a smart ass comment, or so it sounded to me.

“Well we sure are going to look at it!”

We then sat on the hood of the car for a good half hour or so while he was inside making phone calls and running background checks on us. My guess is he was having trouble getting some one to look at it.

About this time my gun slid off the top of the car onto the pavement of the hwy. I about blew a gasket inside, but didn’t want to start shit so I keep quiet. I had already been yelled at once for standing up off the hood of the car.

Then finally the detectives showed up.

The first thing he asked me was “Is it like the hellfire” and I stated yes similar because I am bumping the rifle.

He took my gun and consulted for about 10 mins between themselves.

The detectives got back into their car and drove off.

The officer then asked if we could check our other guns.

“I replied yes” since I was fearing if I said NO they could get me for some thing else. Plus I had nothing to hide.

After every thing checked out (it seemed like he was looking for drugs or open containers to inside) he informed us that under the legal definition it is not a machine gun.

But that it really could be if bumping but because it confirms to the law that we didn’t do any thing wrong and are free to go.

His tone sounded like he was hoping for a arrest but that didn’t happen. But once he had to let us go he became polite, but I could detect a since of sarcasm (then again my emotions where high so my perception may have been skewed).

So as an overview of what happened:

1. I lost about an hour or so by sitting on the hood of a cruiser on the highway with the gun out in the open on top of my car for every one to see.
2. I was frisked.
3. My car was searched.
4. They ran a background check on me.
5. I felt like I was being treated like a criminal when I was not.

Now the reason I am really pissed is why didn’t they confront us at the range and have us show them instead of going inside to call the law on us.

And when the law showed up they didn’t say any thing to us.

Perhaps its because the other shooters there saw that the range employees/owners call the police on law abiding users of the range because in there opinion as retired police that I have a full-auto.

Instead of settling it there like adults, they waited till we left and I spent one of the most embarrassing times in my life on the highway on the hood of a patrol car.

So because of Dietz’s passed remarks and treatment of military shooters I now consider them biased against those of us with semi-automatic carbines.

I don’t trust a range that calls the cops before investigating it themselves. They have a gunsmith why not let him come look.

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:09:38 PM EDT
Wow.

I think that while I was on the phone looking for a lawyer to explore my legal rights, I would probably post said gun range's phone number so others could call and verify this story and offer their own comments to the owners of the range.......
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:10:41 PM EDT
I'd sue the dept for the damage to my rifle. And for harrassment. And for anything else I could fucking think of. Dickheads like this are the reason why good cops are grouped in with JBTs
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:15:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By linx310:
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

...

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”
I replied,
“No”
He then asked,
“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.



What does a CHL have to do with it? Or even having an FFL? Just 'cause you have an FFL, that doesn't mean you're free to shoot Class III weapons, correct? I like nitpicking over stupid things.


That sucks you had to go through that. Make sure you post this in your Hometown Forum as well, if you haven't already. Major BS there.


Also, does your buddy plan on bringing his new Glock when he deploys? Not sure if that's a good idea... But maybe it is and I just don't know.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:16:57 PM EDT
First off, if I ran a range and thought a guy had an FA, I’d want to shoot it.

That being said, if I was a DA and had no idea about FAs and I thought a guy had one, I would not even touch the thing. Point is: If I think something is illegal, there’s NFW I’m going near it.

I shoot at Blackhawk - I live just east of SA - and I get told by the folks there that I shoot too slow.

That’s for the info...really. I had no plans of going there to begin with, but now the possibility is non-existent.

Did the 10/22 get damaged when it hit the deck?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:17:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Originally Posted By linx310:
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

...

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”
I replied,
“No”
He then asked,
“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.



What does a CHL have to do with it? Or even having an FFL? Just 'cause you have an FFL, that doesn't mean you're free to shoot Class III weapons, correct? I like nitpicking over stupid things.


That sucks you had to go through that. Make sure you post this in your Hometown Forum as well, if you haven't already. Major BS there.


Also, does your buddy plan on bringing his new Glock when he deploys? Not sure if that's a good idea... But maybe it is and I just don't know.

Lots of people take them. You can't bring them back though.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:17:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:17:34 PM EDT
Yep lawyer up and sue the Police and the range owner.

I would carry a hidden camera and talk to the range owner, this way he may say something that you could use in court.

Range owners should help and take care of gun oners, not try and rat them out to the police.

I would also ask for a copy of the police report and the car cam video(if they let you have a copy).

FREE
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:20:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 2:21:10 PM EDT by FREEFALLE7]
a Berreta 92 yes, Glock.. doubtful.

You would have to convince them it was issued.

FREE



Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Originally Posted By linx310:
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

...

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”
I replied,
“No”
He then asked,
“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.



What does a CHL have to do with it? Or even having an FFL? Just 'cause you have an FFL, that doesn't mean you're free to shoot Class III weapons, correct? I like nitpicking over stupid things.


That sucks you had to go through that. Make sure you post this in your Hometown Forum as well, if you haven't already. Major BS there.


Also, does your buddy plan on bringing his new Glock when he deploys? Not sure if that's a good idea... But maybe it is and I just don't know.

Lots of people take them. You can't bring them back though.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:22:53 PM EDT
I don't think my friend wanted to take the glock, he bought it just for fun and had never shot one.

I dont know the number to range. But I am not lieing...this really happend.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:26:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 3:03:58 PM EDT by NorCal_LEO]
Your experience is well within the realm of possible for anyone, sad to say.

Truthfully, that is why I don't bumpfire in public (let alone a range.) Too many cops have NO CLUE that it can be done without modification. Sorry, but I had no clue until I joined here.

Cops + auto fire = a good jamming up until someone figures out what is going on. Most cops assume "illegal machine gun" until you prove otherwise. Take 50 street cops (park rangers, fish/game) and I bet <5 can do a function check on an AR. As long as you have that in mind, you should be prepared to explain in detail what you are doing and how to do it. Sucks, but that is the nature of the beast unfortunately. Too bad you had to endure the shakedown. I sounds to me like you handled it very professionally, IMHO.

That scenario is foremost in my mind when I shoot BLM land, public ranges, etc. I would think TX would be a lot more understanding than CA, though.

I do like to dump a mag every so often, though.

NorCal

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:27:02 PM EDT
Damn. Sounds like Massachusetts.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:27:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
a Berreta 92 yes, Glock.. doubtful.

You would have to convince them it was issued.

FREE

The Reserve unit from my town (was my town, just moved)bought the shit out of Glocks before they deployed to the sandbox. With the CO's permission to take them. And he informed them that they probably would have to leave them. Turned out to be dead on. Over 100 went, none came back.



Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Originally Posted By linx310:
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

...

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”
I replied,
“No”
He then asked,
“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.



What does a CHL have to do with it? Or even having an FFL? Just 'cause you have an FFL, that doesn't mean you're free to shoot Class III weapons, correct? I like nitpicking over stupid things.


That sucks you had to go through that. Make sure you post this in your Hometown Forum as well, if you haven't already. Major BS there.


Also, does your buddy plan on bringing his new Glock when he deploys? Not sure if that's a good idea... But maybe it is and I just don't know.

Lots of people take them. You can't bring them back though.


Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:28:01 PM EDT
tag for more.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:30:21 PM EDT
Am I free to go now?

That is all any officer will get out of me besides my license/registration/name.

Bottom line. Give them any more info and you are asking for trouble. The less info they have the better off you are should their fishing expedition lead you to jail wether they are in the right or wrong.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:30:34 PM EDT
Well , assuming everything you related is correct , it was a very sucky day for you

Unfortunately , you probably can do nothing except boycott the range , and maybe write
a complaint to the sheriff.

The Deputy went " Fishin" , and the big one got away.

Since your local LEO's apparently have nothing better to do than Harass Law abiding citizens ,
you can take some comfort in the fact that your local "Homeland" must be secure from real
threats to peace and tranquility.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:30:39 PM EDT
Dude, that sucks! I think you were a lot more understanding than you had to be. Hope your weapon wasn't damaged when it hit the ground.

BTW, tell your friend taking privately owned firearms to Iraq is strictly verboten. I assume he is taking ammo, too? I'm sure it happens all the time, but I wouldn't want to be the example if caught. You might suggest he rethink this plan of his; for the children of course.

B_S
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:31:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Your experience is well within the realm of possible for anyone, sad to say.

Truthfully, that is why I don't bumpfire in public (let alone a range.) Too many cops have NO CLUE that it can be done without modification. Sorry, but I had no clue until I joined here.

Cops + auto fire = a good jamming up until someone figures out what is going on. Most cops assume "illegal machine gun" until you prove otherwise. Take 50 street cops (park rangers, fish/game) and I bet >5 can do a function check on an AR. As long as you have that in mind, you should be prepared to explain in detail what you are doing and how to do it. Sucks, but that is the nature of the beast unfortunately. Too bad you had to endure the shakedown. I sounds to me like you handled it very professionally, IMHO.

That scenario is foremost in my mind when I shoot BLM land, public ranges, etc. I would think TX would be a lot more understanding than CA, though.

I do like to dump a mag every so often, though.

NorCal


Your post gave me an Idea, Just teach them how to do it with their own rifle lol.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:39:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By linx310:


In the past when I called this range gave me smart remarks to questions pertaining to LEGAL semi-auto military small arms.

For example about two years ago I called asking about a SAR-1 and got the line “We only have REAL guns here.” I replied that it was like a AK-47 and they replied “I don’t know nothing about no SKS, AR-15, or AK-47” and hung up on me.

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.



Yep, that's Dietz's attitude alright. I've been by there twice looking for something or other - he acted like an asshat, so I went on my way. He'll never see any of my money.

If there's damage to your rifle, it's probably on video, so contact an attorney to get that tape asap.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:39:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
Unfortunately , you probably can do nothing except boycott the range , and maybe write
a complaint to the sheriff.



You can do more than that. Donate money and/or time to the guy who challenges the sheriff in the next election. Let the sheriff know why you are supporting his opponent. That will wake him up like nothing else.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:41:14 PM EDT
Talk to a lawyer, have them send the LE a bill for damages to property, and pay 10x what it cost to replace the items.

Sorry. This is the shit world we live in. A million illegal immigrants pour through the borders every month, another million child molesters and rapists are released from prison every year, yet the tunnel vision lives on.

Ask yourself why the BATFE and the DEA and the HHS (and now FEMA) are still being funded in spite of being monumental cluster-fucks of multi-decade failure in their roles. Oink! Oink! Oink!

And this is the best country in the world. JFC we could do so much better with 10% more effort and 3% less bitching.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:44:47 PM EDT
I had the some JBT's do some shit like that to me before. I was profiled as being black or hispanic-im white. I was delivering a pizza, so i had a couple hundred in cash on me-even worse since i was suspected of robbing someone.

I was going around a bend when i saw a black cruiser with its lights going hauling up behind me, the people behind me were pulling off the road so i did too, i figured they were in a hurry and i'd get out of their way. WRONG. They all pull in behind me, i thought, damn i wasnt even speeding. I look in my side mirror and they already have their guns drawn and approaching my vehicle.

The Oh Fuck light goes on.

And they HAD to go up the side of my car with the bushmaster sticker on it, nooo not the other side with a USMC sticker.

Did the same shit, hands out the window, open from the outside. I had the same problem with my seat belt. In rushhour traffic, they shut the whole road down to frisk me and cuff me against my car. Talk about fucking embarrassing, let alone bad for the companies shirt i was wearing.

Looking back on it, i wish i would have just drove away when they ran at me with their guns out. I had NO clue what the fuck was happening, and it was an unmarked car. I should have drove away and called 911.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:46:27 PM EDT
What is the reasoning behind waiting for you to leave instead of approaching you at the range.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:47:00 PM EDT
Dammit Linx! Quit wearing your turbin to the range
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:49:35 PM EDT
Can you post the phone number for the range???? I would like to call and have some fun with the owner.

Ring...ring...

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:50:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1BMF:
I had the some JBT's do some shit like that to me before. I was profiled as being black or hispanic-im white. I was delivering a pizza, so i had a couple hundred in cash on me-even worse since i was suspected of robbing someone.

I was going around a bend when i saw a black cruiser with its lights going hauling up behind me, the people behind me were pulling off the road so i did too, i figured they were in a hurry and i'd get out of their way. WRONG. They all pull in behind me, i thought, damn i wasnt even speeding. I look in my side mirror and they already have their guns drawn and approaching my vehicle.

The Oh Fuck light goes on.

And they HAD to go up the side of my car with the bushmaster sticker on it, nooo not the other side with a USMC sticker.

Did the same shit, hands out the window, open from the outside. I had the same problem with my seat belt. In rushhour traffic, they shut the whole road down to frisk me and cuff me against my car. Talk about fucking embarrassing, let alone bad for the companies shirt i was wearing.

Looking back on it, i wish i would have just drove away when they ran at me with their guns out. I had NO clue what the fuck was happening, and it was an unmarked car. I should have drove away and called 911.

It's illegal in Arkansas for an unmarked unit to do a traffic stop. Should be everywhere.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:50:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Can you post the phone number for the range???? I would like to call and have some fun with the owner.

Ring...ring...




+1

"Hey, ya should have seen the look on the cops face when i sprayed FA all down the highway"
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:52:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 2:55:43 PM EDT by A_Free_Man]
YOUR mistake was bumping in public, drawing unneeded attention to yourself. You knew the range owners were anal about "assault weapons" but did it anyway. So, you brought this on yourself.

Now the reason I am really pissed is why didn’t they confront us at the range and have us show them instead of going inside to call the law on us.

Because they didn't know if any of your friends were there, and you had your guns out and ready to go. He's not about to go up against you while armed, or possibly take one in the back from another gun owner who is fed up with JBT tactics. Smart on his part.

I don't think you are criminal. I just think you weren't thinking things through. Bump all you want... but don't do it at a public range, OK?

I was almost in a similar situation, and several LEO's mosied on over from the pistol range to watch me and my shooting buddy play with our AR-15's and his G36.

My friend says, looks like we have some interested observers. I said, Yeah, saw them coming. Should we tell them? Naw, he says, let's surprise them.

Then a guy with a big van finished up and drove away, revealing my friends DARE* car on the other side of the van. The LEO's relaxed and walked away. It's funny if you can get away with it. We could.

*In case you haven't figured it out, my friend is a Sgt with our S.O., and has his own LEGAL full auto G36.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:54:16 PM EDT
I wouldn't bump fire and do dumb things with my rifle at the range.

I save dumb tricks for more private locations.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:54:29 PM EDT
Memo for the next time this happens to you, stay calm and simply state "Call your supervisor. I'm not talking to you until you call you supervisor to come to the scene."
It might take awhile and you might get detained. Be prepared to wait, but if you know you have someone that is being belligerant or not on the up-n-up, it is worth your while to CYA.

By the way, they really don't have anyway to verify you have a legitimate registerred FA weapon. It takes access to IRS data based on the tax stamp that the ATF and other Feds have, but the local level does not, at least for now.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:54:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:55:55 PM EDT
I shoot at Dietz all the time. They have a sign on the front door that says "No Rapid Firing" You were breaking the rules. I don't know about the rest of it, but the folks at Dietz are nice and I intend to continue going there. And btw I am retired military.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:57:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:59:01 PM EDT

I shoot at Dietz all the time. They have a sign on the front door that says "No Rapid Firing" You were breaking the rules. I don't know about the rest of it, but the folks at Dietz are nice and I intend to continue going there. And btw I am retired military.



Well I must have missed it. And when they informed me to stop I did.

But does this consitute them calling the police on you?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:59:21 PM EDT
We are about to start running the Hays County range. It will be a membership type range and Class 3 and bumpfiring will be welcome.

Check out our website for location WWW.TEXASTACTICAL.NET

Join our mailing list on the home page, for updates and upcoming matches and events.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:01:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Take 50 street cops (park rangers, fish/game) and I bet >5 can do a function check on an AR.




You think MORE thna 5 can do a function check? I say less than 5.

(meethinks you got the greater than/less than sign backwards. REmember, the alligator eats the bigger number
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:02:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 11:27:48 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]
<Post edited to reflect new findings>

According to those in the know (more so than myself ), The Bullet Hole is a class III range and DOES allow rapid fire. My mistake. Carry on.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:03:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By linx310:

I shoot at Dietz all the time. They have a sign on the front door that says "No Rapid Firing" You were breaking the rules. I don't know about the rest of it, but the folks at Dietz are nice and I intend to continue going there. And btw I am retired military.



Well I must have missed it. And when they informed me to stop I did.

But does this consitute them calling the police on you?



How do you know it was them? Someone at the range could have done it. And..the police range is just a little further down the road. Maybe they heard your "automatic weapon". The only range I know around here that lets class 3 shoot is the Bullethole range
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:03:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NAM:

Originally Posted By NorCal_LEO:
Take 50 street cops (park rangers, fish/game) and I bet >5 can do a function check on an AR.




You think MORE thna 5 can do a function check? I say less than 5.

(meethinks you got the greater than/less than sign backwards. REmember, the alligator eats the bigger number



Yup. Color me dumbass. BTW it's "PacMan"
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:04:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 3:06:18 PM EDT by linx310]


How do you know it was them? Someone at the range could have done it. And..the police range is just a little further down the road. Maybe they heard your "automatic weapon". The only range I know around here that lets class 3 shoot is the Bullethole range



Because I was the only one out there...and the deputy told me it was him, a retired office.

I am not boycotting them because they where rude, or disrespectful. If you like shooting there then thats fine.

I just wont after this incident.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:05:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:
We are about to start running the Hays County range. It will be a membership type range and Class 3 and bumpfiring will be welcome.



Whaddya mean 'running' Mike?

HAHA! "bumpfiring will be welcome"
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:06:36 PM EDT
can you even take that .45 glock with you to iraq?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:07:17 PM EDT
Revenge is best served cold.



Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:09:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By linx310:
From this point forward I am enacting a internet wide ban on Dietz’s Gun range in Comal County (New Braunfels) off of Highway 46.

Here is what happened. I am telling the truth, with out trying to make it sound “emotional”.

Yesterday, October 2nd 2005 a friend of mine purchased a Glock .45 that he was going to take to Iraq with him(he is in the 101st airborne and is deploying in a few days). He asked me to show him how to operated it.

The place I usually shoot at (private land) was to dangerous today because of construction so we went to the closest range in my area.

In the past when I called this range gave me smart remarks to questions pertaining to LEGAL semi-auto military small arms.

For example about two years ago I called asking about a SAR-1 and got the line “We only have REAL guns here.” I replied that it was like a AK-47 and they replied “I don’t know nothing about no SKS, AR-15, or AK-47” and hung up on me.

I have been out there before with my WASR-10, SAR-2 and a SAR-3 and never once got asked to leave or smart remarks. I have even bump fired them before.

Now fast forward to today.

We arrived at the range around 10:45 am. We paid the range fee and shot pistol for about 2 hours.

When the users of the rifle range left we took my SKS and Ruger 10/22 to the rifle range.

I wanted to show my friend I could bump fire a 10/22 from the shoulder. I bumped one 10 round magazine off.

The range owner (or employee, not to sure) came out side the office and asked me if I had a full-auto. I told him No politely that I was just bump firing off the trigger.

He then stated, “Ok guys, 1 shoot per second please” and went inside.

Obeying the rules (in the past I was never told this) we took are time with the SKS and where hitting targets out at 200 yards.

About this time a Sheriff deputy showed up. He was walking along the line with the range guy (the one who told us 1 shoot per second) as we had just finished shooting pistol again.

We packed are gear up and departed (mind you there was about a 5-10 min period when the deputy was there talking to this guy).

About 2 mins after we got onto highway 46 I look in the mirror and see the Deputies cruiser with his lights on. We pull off the road and I was thinking all shit, we have all these guns in the car and now we are going to have to explain to them they are not Full-Auto.

I roll down my window and the Deputy has his hand ready to draw his gun on us.

He has us stick our hands out the window and told us no sudden movements. He has me open the car door from the outside on the left hand side and get out. Which I can not because the seat belt is on and I was afraid to take it off thinking I would go for a gun.

I told him what was wrong and he gave me permission to do so. Once I got out of the car he had me walk backwards about 30 feet from my vehicle and lay on the roof of the squad car while he frisked me.

He asked,

“How many guns are in the car and what are the locations”

I replied,

“6 sir, all in the back seat.”

He then got my friend out of the car and had him do the same thing by walking backwards.

He asked,

“Do you have a CHL, FFL, or Class 3 license?”

I replied,

“No”

He then asked,

“Where is the alleged gun that is full-auto?”

I replied,

“I don’t have a full-auto weapon, it is semi-auto”

He replied,

“Well I have TWO retired police officers that say you do”

I replied,

“I was bumping my Ruger 10/22 off of my finder”

He replied,

“Well which case is it in”

I replied,

“The grey one”

He takes it out and is messing with and he asked again are you sure its full-auto.

I told him no and that I could show him.

He replied with a smart ass comment, or so it sounded to me.

“Well we sure are going to look at it!”

We then sat on the hood of the car for a good half hour or so while he was inside making phone calls and running background checks on us. My guess is he was having trouble getting some one to look at it.

About this time my gun slid off the top of the car onto the pavement of the hwy. I about blew a gasket inside, but didn’t want to start shit so I keep quiet. I had already been yelled at once for standing up off the hood of the car.

Then finally the detectives showed up.

The first thing he asked me was “Is it like the hellfire” and I stated yes similar because I am bumping the rifle.

He took my gun and consulted for about 10 mins between themselves.

The detectives got back into their car and drove off.

The officer then asked if we could check our other guns.

“I replied yes” since I was fearing if I said NO they could get me for some thing else. Plus I had nothing to hide.

After every thing checked out (it seemed like he was looking for drugs or open containers to inside) he informed us that under the legal definition it is not a machine gun.

But that it really could be if bumping but because it confirms to the law that we didn’t do any thing wrong and are free to go.

His tone sounded like he was hoping for a arrest but that didn’t happen. But once he had to let us go he became polite, but I could detect a since of sarcasm (then again my emotions where high so my perception may have been skewed).

So as an overview of what happened:

1. I lost about an hour or so by sitting on the hood of a cruiser on the highway with the gun out in the open on top of my car for every one to see.
2. I was frisked.
3. My car was searched.
4. They ran a background check on me.
5. I felt like I was being treated like a criminal when I was not.

Now the reason I am really pissed is why didn’t they confront us at the range and have us show them instead of going inside to call the law on us.

And when the law showed up they didn’t say any thing to us.

Perhaps its because the other shooters there saw that the range employees/owners call the police on law abiding users of the range because in there opinion as retired police that I have a full-auto.

Instead of settling it there like adults, they waited till we left and I spent one of the most embarrassing times in my life on the highway on the hood of a patrol car.

So because of Dietz’s passed remarks and treatment of military shooters I now consider them biased against those of us with semi-automatic carbines.

I don’t trust a range that calls the cops before investigating it themselves. They have a gunsmith why not let him come look.

Please pass this on to every shooting board on the net. Do Not shoot at Dietz’s range.




4.they ran a back ground check on me.

you may have a lawsuit right there, consult an attorney. Im dead serious onthis too.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:10:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By linx310:


How do you know it was them? Someone at the range could have done it. And..the police range is just a little further down the road. Maybe they heard your "automatic weapon". The only range I know around here that lets class 3 shoot is the Bullethole range



Because I was the only one out there...and the deputy told me it was him, a retired office.

I am not boycotting them because they where rude, or disrespectful. If you like shooting there then thats fine.

I just wont after this incident.



Now you're sounding apologetic. Don't. You were publicly humiliated on a major interstate for an hour because you broke a range rule. The guy asked you to stop, you did, but he had to press the issue further.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:13:25 PM EDT
Well I talked to my lawyer guys. And since I am being professional I am not going to post phone numbers there and or emails addresses.

Harrasing some one on the phone is just causing more problems....
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:14:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 11:29:38 PM EDT by FortyFiveAutomatic]

Originally Posted By mushoot:
The only range I know around here that lets class 3 shoot is the Bullethole range



<post edited to remove falsehoods>

You sir, are correct, and I was wrong about The Bullet Hole not allowing rapid fire. They do indeed allow it.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:19:47 PM EDT
i agree its bullshit but you KNOW bumpfiring will freak people out. especially when you know going in that they are hostile towards EBRs anyway. i think you set yourself up for this one. you bumpfired somewhere you souldnt have and then you consented to a search. go look in the mirror and yell at that guy for fucking up your day.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:25:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 3:26:37 PM EDT by texastactical]

Originally Posted By Backstop:

Originally Posted By texastactical:
We are about to start running the Hays County range. It will be a membership type range and Class 3 and bumpfiring will be welcome.



Whaddya mean 'running' Mike?

HAHA! "bumpfiring will be welcome"



We have agreed with the landowner to a 5 year lease for our exclusive use. All ARFCOMers are more than welcome......including you Don

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:26:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Never....ever, consent to a search. Dang, people - there is zero reason to be shaken up & / or scared.





Yep.

The first part is to recognize that the LEO are playing their "role" as in a stage play.

The second is to deny them every legitimacy point possible by asserting your rights as enumerated in the Constitution:

#1 it makes them better LE, so they aren't used to everyone rolling over for them
#2 it protects your rights

Be civil, be polite, but deny every request. Name, address, serial number and rank. "Am I free to go, or are you placing us under arrest? My name is W, my address is X, my social security number is Y and my DOB is Z. I refuse consent to a search and I refuse to answer any questions without an attorney present." Soon they will tire and beat you senseless with a baton (so you can file for damages in the MM range ala the crackhead Mr. King) or let you go.

My brother is a criminal defense attorney. 90% of his callers guarantee winding up in PRISON for ADMITTING their involvement at the first contact. Duh?!?! Being ignorant and unprepared is no defense from the law.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:26:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 3:32:56 PM EDT by PeteCO]
No offense intended, but you should be pissed because you acted like a complete pussy. There are ways to make someone feel like a jackass for what they are doing without getting confrontational, and this cop was begging to be made to look like a dumb ass. As for allowing them to search, you should have told him to piss up a rope. Even if he wrote a BS ticket due to being pissed off, you'd at least still have your dignity.

Some things are still worth doing on principle, consequences be damned. You should have at least dressed him down for damaging your property, and made sure a report was filed so the PD can reimburse you for your damages. As far I know, informing someone they are a fucking idiot, even if they are a cop, is not illegal (not that I care even if it is illegal).

Any why tell him you were bumping? Unless you are 12 years old, you ought to know that the less information you volunteer, the better. A simple "nope, no full auto" would have sufficed.


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