Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/29/2004 10:15:07 AM EST
I remember reading a thread about a year ago that described a permit one can obtain through the ATF that permits the holder to possess "destructive devices". I'm assuming this refers primarily to explosives (grenades, mines, etc)

Does anyone know about this, what goes into getting a permit like this, who is eligible, and what is permitted?

I'm wondering, first of all, where would a civillian purchase for example a hand grenade, and second, where would you be allowed to use one? I'm thinking it would make for a pretty fun July 4th! The story I read suggested that collectors of military surplus get these permits so that they amy legally obtain some pretty fun things.

Anyone here have this permit?
Would love to hear about some collections....my black rifle is cool, and fun at the range.....but damn, grenades? that is just some serious fun on camping trips!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:18:26 AM EST
Does the SAM launcher on my roof count?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:19:18 AM EST
i made the mistake of eating at macdonalds recently. man my ass was a destructive device after that.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:19:26 AM EST
I got two 200 Kilton Nuclear warheads in my garage do they count. They go boom
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:20:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:20:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I can't imagine anyone ever getting a permit for hand grenades. Not that I'm against it - I just don't see it happening.




yeah talk about some nasty accidents!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:23:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I can't imagine anyone ever getting a permit for hand grenades. Not that I'm against it - I just don't see it happening.




I MIGHT see it happening< ok n t really.... but maybe> ... but where the hell is he going to buy one?

just looked thru gunbroker.... no luck.


might be harder to find one for sell then to get a permit for it..



are hand gernades even serialized<sp>?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:25:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I can't imagine anyone ever getting a permit for hand grenades. Not that I'm against it - I just don't see it happening.





Actually I remember in the paper a few years back they listed the number of registered grenades in the State of Florida and it was in the thousands! I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was around 2 or 3 thousand. But I imagine this would include mortars too.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:26:15 AM EST
I am really interested to know exactly what this permit is and what it specifies.
I cant picture the US government giving up access to things like land mines, hand grenades, RPG's, or bigger rocket type weapons. 2A doesnt say we can have rifles, or pistols...it says arms....and we all know WHY we gauranteed the right to protect ourselves. In a land that challenges our right to defend our lives on a regular basis, I cant imagine that same government giving us "power tools"....its hard enough to just carry a "hammer".

But damn, a civilian SAM range would be a kick...i think we would all be broke!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:28:05 AM EST
Yes, it is possible to get them but the prices are prohibitive. Not just the launcher is a DD but anything with more than a certain amount of explosive in it counts as a seperate destructive device. So each grenade, each mortar shell, etc. is a seperate DD. Guns over .50 caliber can be declared destructive devices if they are no deemed "sporting" by the ATF. So a .600 nitro express or similar gun would not be a DD, but a WW1 anti-tank rifle would be. Not counting shotguns of course, although there are a couple shotguns arbitrarily ruled to be DD's, I can't remember which ones.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:29:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:31:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 10:34:19 AM EST by GUNGUY1911]
Originally Posted By Steve_T_M:
Not counting shotguns of course, although there are a couple shotguns arbitrarily ruled to be DD's, I can't remember which ones.

Striker 12 ga., USAS, SPAS, etc. were some.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:33:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By GC456:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I can't imagine anyone ever getting a permit for hand grenades. Not that I'm against it - I just don't see it happening.





Actually I remember in the paper a few years back they listed the number of registered grenades in the State of Florida and it was in the thousands! I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was around 2 or 3 thousand. But I imagine this would include mortars too.



That is amazing. That really is amazing.

So, how many'd ya get?




LOL! I wish I had the cash for somthing cool.... but if your going to dishout X number of Dollars, why would you waste it on a grenade? I would rather get an M16 or a BAR.

The local machine gun shoot always has atleast one WWII era mortar, they use inert rounds. But, WOW do those things go high


My question what happens when you have a mortar round with the tax stamp and all..... then you use one at the range (if that is even possible) then what? Do you have to report to the alphabet boys and tell them you "Used" it?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:33:50 AM EST
Yes you can get a 40mm grenade launcher with approval but each grenade for it is also a DD.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:34:21 AM EST
" Not counting shotguns of course, although there are a couple shotguns arbitrarily ruled to be DD's, I can't remember which ones."

USAS-12
Streetsweeper
Stryker

All banned by Executive Order thanks to your hero and mine, William Jefferson Clinton....
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:35:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:44:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
After eating chili and downing some tequilla, my farts are considered WMD's Does that count???



They would in NC.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:45:52 AM EST
If I had a destructive device, I could legally carry it concealed with my CCW permit here in The Great Commonwealth.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:46:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By blueshockey:

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
After eating chili and downing some tequilla, my farts are considered WMD's Does that count???



They would in NC.



get you a lighter and you got yourself a flamethrower!! wait, no that's an AOW isn't it?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:47:05 AM EST
Flame Throwers are not DDs or AOWs.

Neither are molotov cocktails.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:50:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Yes you can get a 40mm grenade launcher with approval but each grenade for it is also a DD.

CRC



But what if the grenades only carry paint or are solid plastic, with no explosive in them?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:51:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Yes you can get a 40mm grenade launcher with approval but each grenade for it is also a DD.

CRC



But what if the grenades only carry paint or are solid plastic, with no explosive in them?



I still believe anything 40mm is a DD no matter what.

But 37mm I dunno.

CRC
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:54:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 10:55:49 AM EST by AR-15Fan]
I believe I've read you sometimes don't have to pay the individual DD tax on all grenades. I've heard you can actually pay it on a case of ammo, such as 40mm nades. That would seem to make a little more sense, so that's probably wrong of course, lol...

Someone had a transferrable Mk19 40mm auto grenade launcher for sale on Gunbroker or Auction Arms in the last month. It was like $200,000 I believe... I'm sure you could get some non-explosive training rounds or something non-DD to shoot too I'd think. That would be run, lobbing 40mm solid rounds in bursts at targets 1000 yards away, lol
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 10:57:16 AM EST
http://www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:10:49 AM EST
Here is a vid of a friend's 60mm mortar he built on a Form 1. The most useless NFA weapon but a lot of fun to bring out to the shoots.

60mm Mortar Video - 4.5mb wmv file
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:12:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:23:20 AM EST
I can think of a few around here who would pay that amount for such a device.


Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:26:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By GC456:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
I can't imagine anyone ever getting a permit for hand grenades. Not that I'm against it - I just don't see it happening.





Actually I remember in the paper a few years back they listed the number of registered grenades in the State of Florida and it was in the thousands! I don't remember the exact number but I believe it was around 2 or 3 thousand. But I imagine this would include mortars too.



Not shocking. Each flashbang is listed, by serial number, on an agency's NFA records. EVen after they are exploded.

Bangs typically come from the manufacturer on one Form 10 (or was it a Form 5; I don't remember) for the entire order, with a serial number range listed. The posessor is supposed to send NFA Branch a destruction letter a couple times a year to let them know which DDs they have expended in training and operations.

Bangs are fun. 40mm launchers are also DDs, though there is a fair amount of non DD-ammo available for them.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:32:51 PM EST
So what is the milit on what can be legally owned?
Assuming money was no object, can a civillian have RPG's, land mines, SAM's?
Where is the line drawn....a nuclear suitcase is a pretty damn destructive device.....if a person had the money to buy/build one can they?

What permits / licenses / stamps etc are required to obtain a DD ?
Hell, I would pay $100 for a grenade if i could legally use them somewhere.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:36:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
Here is a vid of a friend's 60mm mortar he built on a Form 1. The most useless NFA weapon but a lot of fun to bring out to the shoots.

60mm Mortar Video - 4.5mb wmv file



pretty sweet
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 2:37:20 PM EST
I was just wondering about flamethrowers, would they work their way into the category of Destructive Device, or is there another category that these better fit into?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:11:35 PM EST
I have a friend that registered a 37mm flare launcher as a DD so he could shoot less leathal rubber ball rounds out of it. I thought it was pretty funny he had to register it to shoot less than leathal ammo.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:22:44 PM EST
My wife often expresses that my butt is a DD. Get a hold of Mike Dillon of you know RL 550 fame. He would probably know where to get stuff we have only seen pictures of. Take care. Coondog
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:26:49 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:37:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 3:42:05 PM EST by ArmdLbrl]
www.autoweapons.com/products/destructivedevices.html

So the 40mm rounds listed here are NOT DD's?

The Canadians are lucky in this respect, their goverment does not even consider the M203 or M70 A FIREARM because they velocity is below 450fps!

They practice shooting with reloaded shells throwing cylinders of some sort of white plastic.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:44:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
A grenade itself may be relatively cheap (I'd estimate 15 bucks or so each) but as individual DDs, they're going to cost you an additional 200 bucks each. Not many people want to pay over 200 bucks
for something you only get to use ONCE...and if you're smart, you don't even dare WATCH it when it explodes!

Very limited interest in that market.

CJ



Why? I would pay the extra tax for a M72 or AT-4- or a Spike SR. So you only use them once- you only NEED them once! How many armored bulldozers- or stolen tanks- will one meet in ones life time?

But if EVERYONE bought just ONE- think of what kind of Militia THAT would be...
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:27:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:
Flame Throwers are not DDs or AOWs.

Neither are molotov cocktails.

CRC



WRONG, Molotov Cocktails are DD's, check the BATF website.

Flame throwers are totally unregulated.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:27:36 PM EST
Actually, the process for reloading the 40mm sponge rounds, like DefTech's eXact iMpact rounds, is pretty easy. Anyone with a .38 caliber set up can do it, and the projectiles are reusable (and accurate) as long as you don't crack the plastic base. They are not DDs though the launcher is.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:31:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By CS223:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Flame Throwers are not DDs or AOWs.

Neither are molotov cocktails.

CRC



WRONG, Molotov Cocktails are DD's, check the BATF website.

Flame throwers are totally unregulated.



Beaker is right
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:34:34 PM EST
I really want a flamethrower.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:35:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By blueshockey:

Originally Posted By lordtrader:
After eating chili and downing some tequilla, my farts are considered WMD's Does that count???



They would in NC.



get you a lighter and you got yourself a flamethrower!! wait, no that's an AOW isn't it?



No, no restrictions whatsoever on flamethrowers. Kinda cool..........
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:46:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By natez:
Actually, the process for reloading the 40mm sponge rounds, like DefTech's eXact iMpact rounds, is pretty easy. Anyone with a .38 caliber set up can do it, and the projectiles are reusable (and accurate) as long as you don't crack the plastic base. They are not DDs though the launcher is.



Oohh...
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:51:50 PM EST
I lost all my grenades in a fishing accident.
It was horrible.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:59:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Yes you can get a 40mm grenade launcher with approval but each grenade for it is also a DD.

CRC



But what if the grenades only carry paint or are solid plastic, with no explosive in them?



I still believe anything 40mm is a DD no matter what.

But 37mm I dunno.

CRC


Not all 40mm are DD I don't belive a guy was selling HE pratice rounds at $200 a pop. He was a Class 3 dealer but said the round could goto your house.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:08:52 PM EST
Anything that accepts 40mm grenade bodies is a DD and must be registered as such. The 37mm launchers are not DD and are not even firearms. You can ship them right to your door. If you wish to shoot more than flares you can register them as DD'. If you have a 37mm-12 gauge adapter or are in possesion of 37mm dd shells before its registered you are in deep shit. Theres a badass adapter called the hornet that shoots 18 .22lrs at once.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:11:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 9:12:29 PM EST by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By LHD:
Anything that accepts 40mm grenade bodies is a DD and must be registered as such. The 37mm launchers are not DD and are not even firearms. You can ship them right to your door. If you wish to shoot more than flares you can register them as DD'. If you have a 37mm-12 gauge adapter or are in possesion of 37mm dd shells before its registered you are in deep shit. Theres a badass adapter called the hornet that shoots 18 .22lrs at once.



I think we cleared it that the 40mm Launcher itself is a DD, the question was is there SOMETHING that can be shot from it for practice that isn't registered as a DD. I live in a NFA state so it just a matter of deciding to spend the extra 200 bucks on the launcher- but spending 200 bucks A ROUND would be prohibative.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:19:58 PM EST
So can one walk into a store an canada and buy a M203 over the counter?

Jerad
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:21:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jerad:
So can one walk into a store an canada and buy a M203 over the counter?

Jerad



Yes but there could be complications buying the AR to hang it on..
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:33:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By Jerad:
So can one walk into a store an canada and buy a M203 over the counter?

Jerad



Yes but there could be complications buying the AR to hang it on..



Well other than a hunting trip that's the first good reason I've found to go up there.

Any Idea what they cost or what the shells run, I would love to go up there and get one with a few shells and blow the shit out of the canadian country side.

Jerad
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:36:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 9:37:31 PM EST by FanoftheBlackRifle]

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:
Here is a vid of a friend's 60mm mortar he built on a Form 1. The most useless NFA weapon but a lot of fun to bring out to the shoots.

60mm Mortar Video - 4.5mb wmv file




SWEET!

What the hell were ya using for ammo? (Meaning, who reloads, and how?)

Also....if'n he built it....where did he get the plans, or did he just 'wing' it?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:38:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By LHD:
Anything that accepts 40mm grenade bodies is a DD and must be registered as such. The 37mm launchers are not DD and are not even firearms. You can ship them right to your door. If you wish to shoot more than flares you can register them as DD'. If you have a 37mm-12 gauge adapter or are in possesion of 37mm dd shells before its registered you are in deep shit. Theres a badass adapter called the hornet that shoots 18 .22lrs at once.



I think we cleared it that the 40mm Launcher itself is a DD, the question was is there SOMETHING that can be shot from it for practice that isn't registered as a DD. I live in a NFA state so it just a matter of deciding to spend the extra 200 bucks on the launcher- but spending 200 bucks A ROUND would be prohibative.



I've never seen DD rounds on sale before. Everyone I know that shoots them reloads thier own. Obviously if you have a 12 guage adapter you dont have to register every shotgun shell you have. Same if you shoot .22s in it.

You can get more info over at 37mm.com. They have links to launchers and the reloading equipment. You can do a variety of starbursts and other visual spectacles reletivly easy with out DDing it.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top