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Posted: 4/17/2006 3:33:26 PM EDT
NY Police Told To Refund Overseas Pay


Updated: April 17th, 2006 10:37 AM PDT


New York police called to military duty after the Sept. 11 terror attacks have received huge bills telling them to return back wages collected while deployed.

Since the war on terror began, civil-service employees who are called up or sign up for military duty continue to receive their salaries even as the military pays them wages.

But they eventually are supposed to refund the lesser of the two salaries.

Because the city has figured "entitlement pay," a food and housing stipend, as part of their military salary total, in most cases they're being asked to return their police pay.

"In some cases, that stipend doubles the military salary," said Joseph Strong, Manhattan North financial secretary for the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association. "So their military pay, which would have been less than the city salary, is now more."

One police officer from Manhattan who was stationed overseas was asked to return $11,000 in city pay instead of $5,700 to the military.

"Guys feel like they're being cheated out of money and don't think that stipend should be included," Strong said. "It's funding meant to be spent to take care of their families."



Link Posted: 4/17/2006 3:35:46 PM EDT
Only taxable income should count.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:06:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Only taxable incomeNothing should count.


Fixed.

The police (along with fire, ems, etc) are not paid enough and the military is not paid enough.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:09:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Only taxable incomeNothing should count.


Fixed.

The police (along with fire, ems, etc) are not paid enough and the military is not paid enough.



+1

Bigger things to be worried about.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:11:01 PM EDT
In Before the Arfcom cop basher's club.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:12:54 PM EDT
Owing money after civil service AND serving your country is fucked up!
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:14:35 PM EDT
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:17:43 PM EDT
Bloomburg hates cops, the military, and guns. The trifecta of a flukwad.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:18:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 4:19:04 PM EDT by Charging_Handle]
What a bunch of crap. Those guys were the first to fight in this war on terror and first to suffer casualties, as they were at Ground Zero. Shit. They were fighting this war both on our soil and overseas. Let them keep ALL the pay. They deserve it.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:25:09 PM EDT
Wow.  That's extra special shitty.  



-K
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:33:31 PM EDT
NYC has serious budget issues - I can understand them not wanting to pay officers who are deployed and getting military pay.  However, this amounts to essentially giving EXTRA money to the city - and that is BULLSHIT.

There is a reason why "allowances" are not considered "pay."  NYC should respect that.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 4:44:32 PM EDT
I Hate NY
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:07:41 PM EDT
What a bunch of petty bullshit.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 5:16:11 PM EDT
I was in the Guard for my first three years on the job. When I went to AT or a drill weekend on military Leave, the city only made up the difference. I don't have a problem with that. Why should a guy get paid by the city when he isn't on the clock?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:19:44 PM EDT
The deployed cops will bring back to their jobs military combat experience that the city could or would never pay for.  

Bloomberg is a fruitcake.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:31:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Only taxable incomeNothing should count.


Fixed.

The police (along with fire, ems, etc) are not paid enough and the military is not paid enough.



Yet they are always the ones singled out by political whores for budget cuts in order to punish the "little people" for voting against tax increases.

Around here, we regularly defeat these tax hikes. The very next day, the government "miraculously" discovers missing funds, so all the bullshit Chicken Little catastrophes they predicted actually don't come true.  Imagine that.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:34:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/17/2006 8:34:55 PM EDT by Mercury]

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



Hey, I think I like you.
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 8:59:00 PM EDT
Our city tried the propaganda approach.  Proclaimed loud and long that they would make up the difference between military and city pay.  They stacked the deck by figuring things such as commisary priviledges, etc.

Did you know that as an E-8 I make 110K a year in the Army?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:06:44 PM EDT
Why does this bullshit not surprise me?
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:11:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mercury:

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



Hey, I think I like you.


+1
Link Posted: 4/17/2006 9:12:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:49:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Our city tried the propaganda approach.  Proclaimed loud and long that they would make up the difference between military and city pay.  They stacked the deck by figuring things such as commisary priviledges, etc.

Did you know that as an E-8 I make 110K a year in the Army?



Unbelievable.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 3:53:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 3:55:59 AM EDT by TomJefferson]
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:11:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Our city tried the propaganda approach.  Proclaimed loud and long that they would make up the difference between military and city pay.  They stacked the deck by figuring things such as commisary priviledges, etc.

Did you know that as an E-8 I make 110K a year in the Army?



I bet you dont make that in pay.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:29:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
I was in the Guard for my first three years on the job. When I went to AT or a drill weekend on military Leave, the city only made up the difference. I don't have a problem with that. Why should a guy get paid by the city when he isn't on the clock?


Can't speak for your state, but here in NYS, we municipal Guard members get about 30 military paid leave days per year.After 9-11, Pataki had a law passed that covered activated Guard members salary. of course, it was only for NY'ers.............
I agree that the city should only calculate based on base salary. I can't believe it took them this long to find out about BAQ, etc.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:35:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:37:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:42:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



Not I.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:47:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burley:

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



Not I.


At the least they should get a higher deduction, lower tax rate or some other bennie, and I'm not just talking tax free in a combat zone...EVERY AD military member. Heck, volunteer FFs here get a break on tax rates, you'd think a military guy should get a break in some way. Might even help recruiting to have a 10 % tax rate instead of a standard rate.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:50:33 AM EDT
This effects one of my squad leaders, who is NYPD. He recieved his full salary while mobilized, so now he has to pay it back? BS, they said he could have it and they gave it to him. You can't retro the friggin rules. These guys aren't millionaires.

Fuck NY politicians.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 4:58:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Only taxable incomeNothing should count.


Fixed.

The police (along with fire, ems, etc) are not paid enough and the military is not paid enough.



+1

Bigger things to be worried about.



Huge +1 here.  What a chickenshit policy, and whomever is responsible in the NYC Policy chain of command for this policy should hang their head in shame.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:04:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cleatus:
I bet you dont make that in pay.



He doesn't. But there are all sorts of accounting tricks you can pull to make it seem like he does, such as counting commisary privileges as "compensation".

Government pay stuff like this is most often nothing more than a shell game where one branch of government tries to get somebody else to foot the bill so they can keep the money.

Government is about money.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:05:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Great PR!  Screw the guys putting their lives on the line...

I wonder why they need the money back.  Social programs?



Social programs, union demands, you name it. New York City is the most heavily taxed place in the entire nation, and their government STILL runs around with its hand out all the time.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:20:01 AM EDT
Let's play devils advocate here for a minute.

If the cop's NYPD pay was 11,000 and his military pay was only 5,700 and he is being asked to pay back the lesser when military allowances are included then the cop made more than 11,000 in military pay and allowances.

So when tax time rolls around the cop won't have to pay taxes on the allowances (11,000(+) - 5,700) and since they're deployed to a combat zone they won't have to pay taxes on the 5,700 either. So essentially, they are getting 11,000+ in tax free pay and allowances.

We can debate the rightness or wrongness of the policy all day and whether or not it should include stipends. The article doesn't tell us if the policy spells out that allowances are to be included or not. However, by paying back the NYPD salary, if you can only keep one or the other, it looks like that would have some serious tax advantages.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 5:33:14 AM EDT
I think that changing the rules after the game has started is BS.  If the policy when the member was activated was base pay only then that's the rule that the city should stick with for that service member.  If it said all pay and allowances, and the city has been letting the member keep the BAS and BAH up until now, then it's their choice to start taking that out (but not to change their mind about past differential pay).

But let's remember one thing here, no employer is obligated to continue paying their employees while they are activated.  The only legal requirement is that they have a job for them when they get home.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:22:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stryker_11A:
This effects one of my squad leaders, who is NYPD. He recieved his full salary while mobilized, so now he has to pay it back? BS, they said he could have it and they gave it to him. You can't retro the friggin rules. These guys aren't millionaires.

Fuck NY politicians.


They start their people out at something like 35K and then complain that more of them don't live in the city they are policing.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:33:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2006 6:37:26 AM EDT by TxLewis]

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Only taxable incomeNothing should count.


Fixed.

The police (along with fire, ems, etc) are not paid enough and the military is not paid enough.




Although they were drafted for neither.

It's great when someone gets to keep their pay from a job when they get activated, but it is NOT and ENTITLEMENT!

If they are unhappy with their pay, there are other options.

TXL


edit to add, If NYC is doing this, I don't think anything above basic pay should be considered.  IOW,  baq and other stuff should not be in the comparison mix.  Neither should combat pay.

I do appreciate the folks who would voluntarily pay more in taxes to support these hero's.  However, part of the problem with our country is how easy some folks spend other peoples tax money. (The biggest problems with this are the morons elected to office).

Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:34:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
They start their people out at something like 35K and then complain that more of them don't live in the city they are policing.



I believe that making 35K in NYC is just about enough to afford a cardboard box behind a deli and to eat garbage.

Everybody wants great cops, but nobody wants to pay them.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:41:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



-1.

I would rather pay the same taxes, have the government make drastic cuts to welfare and other "nanny state" programs and then use the savings for the military personnel (or to build the Great Wall of Mexico).
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 6:43:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
They start their people out at something like 35K and then complain that more of them don't live in the city they are policing.



I believe that making 35K in NYC is just about enough to afford a cardboard box behind a deli and to eat garbage.

Everybody wants great cops, but nobody wants to pay them.



I think panhandlers in NYC pull in more than 35K, and it's tax free!
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:24:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hamel:

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
i'd gladly  and willingly pay higher taxes so that military people don't .



-1.

I would rather pay the same taxes, have the government make drastic cuts to welfare and other "nanny state" programs and then use the savings for the military personnel (or to build the Great Wall of Mexico).



How about we fire a few thousand useless bureaucrats too, and pay less taxes while giving the Military better pay?

Since someone posted about giving tax breaks for Military personnel - it's a good thought, but I'm against it. The whole reason our tax code is ridiculously complicated is everyone trying to give tax breaks for some class of people or other. I'd rather have a simple tax code with no breaks for anyone, so you don't need professional accountants to figure it out, and just pay the Military guys a decent wage in the first place.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:34:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
I Hate NY



Me too.
Link Posted: 4/18/2006 7:38:22 AM EDT
that is depressingly wrong...
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