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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/4/2003 1:02:24 PM EDT
You gotta read the crap coming from this article. But isn't this the same city run by Wellington Webb?? [url]http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1429540,00.html [/url] CRC
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:05:19 PM EDT
Well at least the perp won't suffer.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:05:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:06:53 PM EDT by Zaphod]
Really? What tanks do they need to engage from a mile out, or humans from 5 miles (to use the liberal claims)? Edited to add:
Well at least the perp won't suffer.
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[lol] You got THAT right! Maybe it's a tactic to save on court costs!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:09:42 PM EDT
In 1995, Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Tim Mossbrucker was gunned down outside an Albertsons store with a .50-caliber weapon.
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[BS] I call BS on this. More likely the perp used a Shotgun or a Desert Eagle.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:14:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:26:49 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
WTF not? LEO departments already get machine guns, flashbangs, APVs, C4 explosives, submachineguns, thermal imaging, etc.... all kinds of goodies us civvies can't get. Why not claymores? 30mm DU cannons? tanks? RPGs? Nukes? [i]If it helps one officer make it home safely that night...........[/i] I really don't object to them having the tools they need, but I do object to the double standard where they get tools we can't.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:19:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:19:48 PM EDT by kay9]
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Really? What tanks do they need to engage from a mile out, or humans from 5 miles (to use the liberal claims)? Edited to add:
Well at least the perp won't suffer.
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[lol]You got THAT right! Maybe it's a tactic to save on court costs!
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Hmm, although I dont agree, but many who posted in the "44 minutes" thread said they'd back way off and hit'em with a high powered rifle. How about EOD use? How about some terrorisms[size=1]TM[/size=1] taking over an airplane on the tarmac, claiming to have explosives planted throughout the airport and runway areas. There are several scenarios in which a fifty would be appropriate.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:25:05 PM EDT
POS webb is on his way out.. new mayor elected yesterday.. [url=http://www.9news.com/storyfull-co.asp?id=15065]Hickenlooper[/url] where does he stand? donno... but as I already mentioned, webb is a POS.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:41:37 PM EDT
I have no problem with them getting a .50 BMG, however I do have a problem with the claim that Deputy Mossbrucker was killed with a .50 cal weapon. I assumed it was a .50 AE, but in searching about the incident, all I came up with is that he was killed with a .30cal SKS (yeah, that's what they said). So someone is lying...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:50:55 PM EDT
I actually wish more police departments had .50's, APC's and even LAW's or 40mm grenade launchers! So long as they are trained to use them I have no problem with it. With the United States sitting in the center of the bullseye being targeted by Al Qaida and other groups, it just makes sense to provide police the tools they would need to deal with them. The threats they face today have changed somewhat from the perceived threats of 10 years ago. Now, on the other hand, I wish civilians had access to better weapons as well. I will be pleased if we can get this ignorant "1994 Assault Weapons ban" to sunset, never to return. Then we could once again have cool, hi-cap Homeland Security rifles and pistols!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:56:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 1:57:31 PM EDT by HKocher]
Ugh, the more I dig, the more pissed off I get. I found this piece of filth article on VPC describing the use of .50 BMG in the hands of criminals and terrorist. Here's the important bit of this shooting....
Criminal Use of the L.A.R Grizzly 50 Caliber Sniper Rifle—Cop Killer "Fifty Cal Al" On April 28, 1995, Albert Petrosky walked into an Albertson's Grocery Store in suburban Denver, Colorado and gunned down his estranged wife and the store manager. Armed with an L.A.R. Grizzly 50 caliber sniper rifle, an SKS Chinese semi-automatic assault rifle, a .32 revolver, and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, Petrosky then walked out into the shopping center parking lot, where he exchanged fire with a federal IRS agent passing by and killed Sgt. Timothy Mossbrucker of the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department.136 Petrosky, who was known to his friends as "50-cal Al,"137 fired all four weapons, including the 50 caliber rifle, during this murderous rampage.138 After the incident, investigators found three fired 50 caliber cases and eight live 50 caliber rounds outside Petrosky's van, along with four live rounds inside the van.139 Petrosky, a 36-year old auto mechanic, was wanted at the time on a felony warrant, but nevertheless was able to buy the 50 caliber sniper rifle from a gun dealer without a background check because the federal Brady Law did not apply to long guns at that time.140 The dealer who sold him the super gun was later reported to have said, "I feel real bad about what happened."141 It should be noted that Petrosky, who later committed suicide after having been convicted of three counts of murder,142 was not wealthy. He was an auto mechanic who spent a lot of time playing pool, had a criminal record, and was a wanted man. Yet he was able to afford his "toy for a big boy"—once again trashing the specious claim that 50 caliber sniper rifles are "too expensive" for criminals. When authorities test-fired Petrosky's Grizzly 50 caliber rifle, according to Jefferson County Chief Deputy District Attorney Peter Weir, it blasted through a manhole cover "like a hot knife through butter."143 Barrett Firearms Manufacturing dismisses such evidence of the 50 caliber's power by this sneering red herring, posted on its Internet web site: Capable of shooting through a steel manhole cover that is 3½ inches thick. (If a manhole cover existed this thick, it would weigh 475 pounds. Has anyone ever seen one of these? Who would lift it?)144 Clearly, the point is not the dimension or weight of any given manhole cover, however much Barrett wishes it were. The point is rather the power of the 50 caliber sniper rifle and its round. That power is well documented in—among other things—a U.S. Marine Corps demonstration for the Congress and Barrett's own promotional literature. It happened that each of Petrosky's victims were killed by other weapons in his arsenal.r However, most people would agree that this incident qualifies as "criminal use" of a 50 caliber sniper rifle.
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So apparently the .50 cal is SO deadly, that even though no one was hit with a .50 BMG round, the mere presence of the .50 BMG at the crime increased the lethality of the 'puny' SKS round... [rolleyes] [url]http://www.vpc.org/studies/rooftwo.htm[/url] Please don't read this unless you're ready to vomit...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:00:15 PM EDT
I wonder who they plan on confiscating it from? (Sorry, couldn't resist!) [beathorse] [;)]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:14:18 PM EDT
PD's get them while they outlaw them for civilian use....gotta love the way this country is going.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:17:23 PM EDT
There is actually a strong recommendation floating around LE circles about departments needing to re-consider whether or not they need a .50 cal rifle. Most places don't really need one. Denver, though, fits several of the criteria. I do remember that having an airport, major sports arena and syscrapers were all on the "you need a .50 caliber rifle" list.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:21:03 PM EDT
I got to hold an AR-50 once. I wish that I had one.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:21:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7IDL: POS webb is on his way out.. new mayor elected yesterday.. [url=http://www.9news.com/storyfull-co.asp?id=15065]Hickenlooper[/url] where does he stand? donno... but as I already mentioned, webb is a POS.
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Both Hickenlooper and Mares stated they would move forward with Denver's lawsuit against the new pre-emption law. I'd guess Denver voters simply traded one POS for another. Of course, Denver voters have a habit of doing that.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:24:59 PM EDT
Chief Gerry Whitman gave an example of its accuracy. "If we put this up on the helipad of the police headquarters, we could cap a guy on the top of The Denver Post building," he said.
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"Cap a guy?" Is that a technical term? [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:25:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kay9:
Originally Posted By Zaphod: Really? What tanks do they need to engage from a mile out, or humans from 5 miles (to use the liberal claims)? Edited to add:
Well at least the perp won't suffer.
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[lol]You got THAT right! Maybe it's a tactic to save on court costs!
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Hmm, although I dont agree, but many who posted in the "44 minutes" thread said they'd back way off and hit'em with a high powered rifle. How about EOD use? How about some terrorisms[size=1]TM[/size=1] taking over an airplane on the tarmac, claiming to have explosives planted throughout the airport and runway areas. There are several scenarios in which a fifty would be appropriate.
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I should have been more clear.... Of course it's okay in my book for the police to have those weapons and equipment they need to perform their demanding and, in the post-9/11 world, exceedingly diverse missions. I was poking fun at the mindset of the idiot politicians who are desperate to ban these things from law-abiding citizens. It's the idea that the cops should have it but not us that is laughable to me. Sorry for the confusion....
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:20:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:33:53 PM EDT
i'd be really interested in seeing a video of someone (one of us even) walk around with an sks, LAR .50bmg, and whatever those 2 other guns were and actually be able to walk straight and hit a target. pure bullshit. that's about 40-50lbs of guns or more..maybe this guy had 4 arms, one for each weapon. as far as a PD having a .50...how many of their engagements are outside 50yds? a waste of tax dollars for sure.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:18:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 8:35:56 PM EDT by AZCOP]
Originally Posted By Torf:
In 1995, Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Tim Mossbrucker was gunned down outside an Albertsons store with a .50-caliber weapon.
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[BS] I call BS on this. More likely the perp used a Shotgun or a Desert Eagle.
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It wasn't a desert Eagle or shotgun. The perp shot his wife and the store manager where she worked with a secondary weapon. He then set up a bi-podded rifle in the parking lot near his vehicle, and waited. Mossbrucker was first to arrive, only he never really arrived: The perp shot him through the windshield as he was turning into the shopping center parking lot: Mossbrucker never knew what hit him. I don't think it was a .50 cal. I think it was some russian or chinesse import. Jay
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:58:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZCOP: It wasn't a desert Eagle or shotgun. The perp shot his wife and the store manager where she worked with a secondary weapon. He then set up a bi-podded rifle in the parking lot near his vehicle, and waited. Mossbrucker was first to arrive, only he never really arrived: The perp shot him through the windshield as he was turning into the shopping center parking lot: Mossbrucker never knew what hit him. I don't think it was a .50 cal. I think it was some russian or chinesse import. Jay
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The articles I found said the POS shot the deputy with an SKS. However the shooter also had a LAR Grizzly 50 in the car, so in the minds of the anti-gunners (and apparently some less than honest Deputy Chiefs in this case) he was killed with a .50, even though he was shot with the SKS.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:06:39 PM EDT
I think that the Denver area ski patrols should fear for their jobs..... With a 50BMG in the arsenal the Denver PD could do avalanche abatement -- from base camp. [:D] Raufoss anyone?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:18:26 AM EDT
It is true that the average engagement for a PD sniper is about 82 yards, but with all of the CT stuff popping up, there may be the need to have engagements at greater ranges, and with greater penetration. These would really be useful at airports and for disabling vehicles (both occupied and unoccupied) to name two applications. Not everyone needs them. We thought about it but decided that there were many other things that we could use the money for that were much higher priotities. Much of SWAT equipment purchases are about coningencies; much of the gear we have has only been used once or twice for real, but it was absolutely critical that we had those items when we did need them. I can see lots of justification for a big-city PD to have a .50 caliber rifle.
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