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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/14/2005 12:30:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2005 12:42:26 PM EDT by odontia32m]
Denied for the following reasons from the so called SNAP committee (special needs adoption comm.)

1. My 16 yo son was not keen on the idea. They never inteviewed him as they have to do and demanded they would. They would have seen he was accepting but not liking the idea.

2. They made me take the ammo out of my safes and store it locked away from the guns in a locked closet. Not smart but I did it in protest. They never followed up with me and said I did not do it.

3. They said we had unrealistic expectations because we did not want a sexually abused child. We want the mentally healthiest child we could get.

4. They said we were culturally insensitive because we wanted a white child only. We are white, like they would give us a black child!.

5. During the mandatory classes an instructor stated it was child abuse to spank your children. I corrected her as well as her supervisor. She wrote a letter about me and said I was abusive. I feel like singling her out and suing her personally.

I do not think they would have approved Jesus Christ for adoption. These liberal bitches just want you to Foster care so they can keep their big budgets.


Help and advice please. We can not afford the overseas adoption as they run 20-30k plus bribes.
I have though about an attorney. I talked to one and he pointed me to their director who is an asshole. I have thought about calling my senators also.


Bob RN

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 12:51:32 PM EDT
Sounds like if you had just shut the hell up, you probably wouldn't have been denied.

The basic rule of bureaucracy is that when you give a bureaucrat power, he feels a need to exercise it periodically, and they'll look for reason to do so. Of the 5 things you listed, take a look:

1. Why was your son an issue if they never talked to him? Presumably you told them "he's not keen on the idea, but he's accepting".

2. When they told you to move your ammo, you probably said "That's a bad idea because..." which may have been correct, but no government servant making $16.24 an hour wants to be corrected.

3. You aren't sounding very loving and open when you start to set rules for the adoption.
4. See comment for 3.

5. You decided to correct the instructor AND her boss. Smooth move...

It looks like YOU gave them all the ammo for a denial. It isn't that you wouldn't make good parents (or that you would - I don't know you). It's that you gave someone enough of an excuse to exercise their power of veto on you.

I think trying to sue the instructor for saying that you are abusive is just going to convince SNAP that you are abusive...


Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:00:21 PM EDT
+1

When confronted with any government/law enforcement/due process the best policy is speak when spoken to and ALWAYS agree if you stand to gain from it.

ALWAYS agree.. and always appear agreeable...

your opinons arent going to win you any friends... keep them to yourself Agree with their opinions and they won't have a reason to deny you..
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:07:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pliftkl:
I think trying to sue the instructor for saying that you are abusive is just going to convince SNAP that you are abusive...





ok, so IF you can get approved and get the whole thing taken care of, THEN sue the bitch for libel.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:13:46 PM EDT
It doesn't sound like SNAP is too interested in having any of its children adopted.

It's probably just a big bureaucracy crying for more money from the taxpayers.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:16:17 PM EDT
The issue is far simpler than you think, boils down to this:

You own guns, no adoptions for you. Plain & simple.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:26:37 PM EDT
Sorry for your misfortune. Reaaply and try this, lie. Go to the DU website to practice your responses to assine questions. Okay I know that to not tell the truth is repulsive but remember you are adopting to help the child not out of some need you have.

I now belive in gun control, the supremacy of the demoncat mindset. I also am going to need welfare and WIC support. I hate my dead end job and I think the rich don't pay enough in taxes.

Wish I could say something to make you feel better but the only thing I can think of is to work the system. Good luck.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:28:35 PM EDT
I agree with pliftkl
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:28:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CS223:
The issue is far simpler than you think, boils down to this:

You own guns, no adoptions for you. Plain & simple.



That's news to me. Never came up except that the social worker doing our home study said "if you own guns, they must be kept in a safe". I said ok. Didn't question her, the rule, the legality, or whatever. I said "Ok" and that was all that was ever said about it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 1:57:02 PM EDT
Go with international adoption. Domestic adoption is too messed up.

My wife and I adopted a child internationally two years ago and are planning on doing it next year as well. The whole process is much better than domestic.

Also, adoption as with work and many other things is largely a matter of "playing the game". You can say things to your friends that you can't say to your boss. The same is true of adoption.

As far as firearms go. They are not a problem as long as you have a safe.

We adopted from China. It has the best of the international programs and also the healthiest children on the average.

You might want to think about the "white" only thing.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:01:45 PM EDT
Ditch your wife for a gay "partner" and you're all set.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:56:53 PM EDT
Did not ask for criticism, I ask for help... I did not correct her supervisor, her supervisor corrected her.

Bob
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:09:14 PM EDT
Hey, at least you're not out $8,000...a buddy of mine and his wife went the private adoption route. Same bullshit as you, execpt the day the kid was born, the mother goes..."you know, I think I'll keep it". After being approved, jumping through all the hoops, and paying out over $8000, they ended up with no kid, and no refund.
Link Posted: 9/14/2005 4:11:04 PM EDT
In CA fostering/adoptions are overseen by county agencies, but are frequently coordinated through private organizations. Basically the process is that you are approved by the private agency and that private agency sells you to the county that is looking to place a child.

It sounds like you are toast with whatever agency you were working with. It sounds like you went in with an attitude, and basically poisoned the well. All that shit they put you through is a kind of earnestness test. You are being evaluated on, among other things, you willingness to subvert your interests to those of the child.

My advice, drop it for 6 mo, or a year, and do some serious soul searching. Ask yourself why you want this? (no need to answer here, I don't care). Are you really prepared for the sacrifices it will entail? Recognize that they aren't called special needs children for nothing. They all have some problem that will require sacrifices above and beyond what a typical child requires.

If, at the end of that time, you are convinced that it is a commitment that you are prepared to make, start over in a new jurisdiction (what ever that means in your situation). Start demonstrating your commitment by checking the attidude and humbly accepting the requirements that are placed upon you. Never forget that you are asking them to give you a human child.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 11:07:47 PM EDT
Thanks for some good advice. I did not know or have any idea this was going to be a government ass kiss festival. If I would have known this I would have had a different attitude. I thought that the way of life we have, our profession as nurses and the money we make with our clean backgrounds we were in. How wrong I was. I can only Monday morning quarter back now.

There are other agencies around here. My employeer pays $2000 toward adoption. This took a year of our lives, thousands of dollars and only heart ache.

Any other advice please chime in.


Bob
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:40:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2005 2:42:35 AM EDT by FloridaConfederate]

Originally Posted By JacobusRex:
Go with international adoption. Domestic adoption is too messed up.

My wife and I adopted a child internationally two years ago and are planning on doing it next year as well. The whole process is much better than domestic.

Also, adoption as with work and many other things is largely a matter of "playing the game". You can say things to your friends that you can't say to your boss. The same is true of adoption.

As far as firearms go. They are not a problem as long as you have a safe.

We adopted from China. It has the best of the international programs and also the healthiest children on the average.

You might want to think about the "white" only thing.




We adopted domestically no issues so as with anything YMMV
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 3:44:39 AM EDT


We adopted domestically no issues so as with anything YMMV



I'm glad you didn't have any troubles and I'm sure that everyone’s own case is unique. However, in our own case. We did a lot of research and talked to almost 2 dozen people that had adopted before we started our process. The majority of people that start domestic adoptions have a lot of trouble. Also, custody lawsuits are common. Two of the people that I talked to had custody lawsuits down the road. One of the adoptions was a "foster to adopt", the other was a private adoption. One lost and the other is still in court, two years later.

I'm sure a lot of people do it all the time and don't have trouble. But a majority do have trouble. Domestic adoption agencies also LOVE to put out a lot of misinformation about international adoption. On the positive side, it is possible to do a domestic adoption for almost no money if you work through a foster program with an older child that has problems. However, private adoption of a healthy infant is another issue. It is typically more expensive than international. I known that some people have done it cheaply but TYPICALLY it is more expensive and you have the potential of custody trouble later. It really doesn't matter if the state says an adoption is "finalized". All it takes is one judge to reverse the custody ruling.

Custody issues are so rare with international adoption that it is almost impossible to find cases of it. Odontia32m seems to be considering the same type of adoption as us. We wanted a healthy infant. The domestic adoption agencies that we talked to ranted about how narrow minded we were.

My suggestion is that he talk to a lot of people that have been there and done that. Then decide what is best for him. There are a LOT of adoption resources on the internet. A great many discussion forums exist on the topic.

BTW, the agency we used was and will be again:

www.hfsadopt.com/

I highly recommend the agency that we used.

China goes as low as 6 months of age on adoptions. It takes on the average about 6-12 months to do an adoption. It can take as long as 18 months. The key facture is how fast you do the paperwork. Chinese adopted children have fewer mental health problems on the average than domestically adopted children. They are also physically healthier on the average than any other international program. I don't know how they compare to domestic on that issue. I do know that drug problems and fetal alcohol syndrome are much less common amongst the Chinese than Americans. Of course, as with having a birth child, health issues are possible in any type of adoption.

Our daughter was 9 months old when we got her 2 years ago. It cost a total of $18,000 for our adoption. There was a $10,000 tax credit afterwards so our net cost was $8,000. She has had no health issues and is doing great.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:50:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By odontia32m:
1. My 16 yo son was not keen on the idea. They never inteviewed him as they have to do and demanded they would. They would have seen he was accepting but not liking the idea.



Find out why he is not keen on adopting a child into his family...

Why would you want to do something that is going to affect your child for the rest of his life ?

I cannot believe you didnt dig farther on this...

They want the adopted children to be welcomed into their new families 100%. This definitely throws up a flag, actually it throws up two because you didnt recognize your son's position as a possible "problem" and did not actively pursue it.


Originally Posted By odontia32m:
2. They made me take the ammo out of my safes and store it locked away from the guns in a locked closet. Not smart but I did it in protest. They never followed up with me and said I did not do it.



This is where you have to be smarter than anti-gun people...

If they said you need your ammo stored in a "locked closet" ( I would consider MY SAFE a locked closet )
then I would have replied, "Good, it already is!"

I would have explained the lockable ammo cabinet that is secure inside the safe...........


If they persue it any further then they definitely have a seperate agenda.



Originally Posted By odontia32m:
3. They said we had unrealistic expectations because we did not want a sexually abused child. We want the mentally healthiest child we could get.

Thats what you get when you deal with the govt....


Originally Posted By odontia32m:
4. They said we were culturally insensitive because we wanted a white child only. We are white, like they would give us a black child!.

Thats what you get when you deal with the govt....


Originally Posted By odontia32m:
5. During the mandatory classes an instructor stated it was child abuse to spank your children. I corrected her as well as her supervisor. She wrote a letter about me and said I was abusive. I feel like singling her out and suing her personally.

KEEP YOUR PIE HOLE SHUT... YOU BOTH WERE SPOUTING OFF OPINIONS! Hers meant nothing to you and yours meant nothing to her... WHAT DID YOU ACCOMPLISH ? Oh yeah you got denied...



Originally Posted By odontia32m:
HWe can not afford the overseas adoption as they run 20-30k plus bribes.



How much are you looking to spend ? My wife and I adopted from overseas and it costs
a little under $15,000. NO STINGS ATTATCHED

Do you know about the AWESOME tax refunds you receive when you adopt ?

I believe it was just under $10,000....


I would defintiely iron out the problems your child has with you adopting... if he is not 100%
with it then dont do it OR wait till he is moved out... cant you wait a couple years ?



LB


Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:54:45 AM EDT
Again completely different experiences to many of the things you posted. I am not trying to fight with you because I believe we are same pro-adoption "team", however if I were reading your post as a prospective adoptive parent I would walk away with a sense that domestic adoption is very hard and problematic, when in my direct experience it was none of those things.

As an adoptive parent I am steadfast in my adovcacy and promotion of AMERICAN children as a priority.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:07:39 AM EDT

Kids are expensive. Buy another couple ARs instead!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:17:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 11:31:29 AM EDT
Don't adopt.

The government has made it a losing proposition because they will ultimately have the last word in everything. The government will remain the guardian and you will just end up being the bread winner and babysitter. Though you will be held responsible for when the child turns out spoiled, self-centered, and a basic thug.

And I agree about spanking. If you love your child, you will do what is necessary to correct them. however, if you do so with an adopted child you stand a good chance of going to jail. Don't adopt.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 12:10:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JacobusRex:


We adopted domestically no issues so as with anything YMMV



Our daughter was 9 months old when we got her 2 years ago. It cost a total of $18,000 for our adoption. There was a $10,000 tax credit afterwards so our net cost was $8,000. She has had no health issues and is doing great.



Our experience was very similar...

Our daughter was 8 months old when we got her a little over 3 years . It cost a total of $15,000 for our adoption. There was a $10,000 tax credit afterwards so our net cost was $5,000. She has had no health issues and is doing great. Here is a pic after Xmas:


Cant wait till she can fire her rifle on the range with me


LB



Link Posted: 9/15/2005 2:26:47 PM EDT
I would have to go along with USMC_LB and JacobusRex on this one since we have 2 Chinese daughters.

We got Molly when she was 8 months old, she will be 4 on December 24th. She is smart and beautiful with no health problems.

We got Shelby when she was 11 months old. She will be 2 on December 15th. She is also smart and beautiful with no health problems.

One of the main reasons we went to China is because there are no custody issues. No one is going to come and say they are the long lost parent and they want their child back. That was very important to my wife. They are our daughters and we love them very much.

We paid somewhere around $20k each. We also got the $10k direct tax credit for both of them.

I have heard good thing about Harrah's. They are out of Houston and a good agency.

We got ours from the same agency as USCM_LB. CCAI out of Denver Colorado.
http://www.chinesechildren.org/
CCAI is run by a couple that emigrated from China. Josh and Lily are awesome. CCAI does the most adoptions from China of any agency. I highly recomend them.

Rusty
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:42:42 PM EDT
Precious little girl in the pic! What a cutie!

Jacobus Rex's wife here. I'm a former teacher and I've dealt with the CPS social workers. They are a waste of oxygen, but that is another rant.

I definitely would see about appealing SNAP's decision. There has got to be some way you can petition for appeal, contacting your congressman isn't a bad idea at all. If they did not interview your teenager, how can they deem whether or not he was enthused over the adoption? Not many teenagers would be, or at least would never admit to it. Sit down with Jr. and discuss it with him that this is something that is very important to the family. Explain that this child will be his brother or sister and he will be a role model for them. They will be a member of the family, but in no way will his "place" be taken away from him. Make him a part of the process.

During our home visit from our social worker (who was really a very nice person), she did ask if we had any guns in the house. Hubby answered truthfully --" no, not at the present time. " What he did not mention was that he had taken everything to his parents home the day before. So no, there were no firearms in our home at the time of the visit. However, I would think that having a good gun cabinet would be sufficient for most. If you get the vibe that this is a social worker who is a real jerk, have a friend or family member babysit your gun collection for the visit. It isn't 100% honest, but people get forced into doing things like this.hinking.gif

Rethink the "white" thing. I've got to admit, I cringed a little reading that. When we went to a seminar for domestic adoption, we were asked what type of child we were looking for. I answered, "Under three years of age, relatively healthy, caucasion or hispanic." We were told we were not "open" enough. The reason we did not think it was a good idea to adopt an African American child was because we live in podunk East Texas. That child would have a life of hell in a community like the one we lived in. We would have loved him/her if he/she was purple polka dotted, but we know not everyone feels that way and my husband would have to spend way too much on bail money for the number of times I would have choked some idiot who made a crack about him. As it is, our daughter is Chinese. Yes, we have had a handfull of unkind remarks, but a lot fewer than I had anticipated. We occasionally run into people who could be put into the category of "dirt dumb", but for the most part, our kid is a little local celebrity. People will surprise you. The ones you think would be educated and accepting are typically the biggest bigots around. The plain ol' rednecks we live around are typically Brianna's biggest fans.

As for the "adopt American" view, I firmly believe a child is a child. They need homes and families to love them and it really doesn't matter where they come from. I applaud the people who make domestic adoption work, and I have known of some cases where it worked beautifully. However, in each case, the people had to "bend' to do some things I knew I was not willing to do. I'm specifically refering to "open" adoptions. In our case, international adoption was the way to go, and we will do it again. Our government has done a thorough job for years of screwing up the domestic adoption process and it has lead to more and more families adopting overseas. It is a shame, but that same screwed up system lead us to getting the most wonderful gift we could have ever gotten -- our daughter.

Good luck to you, whichever route you take!
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 4:54:31 PM EDT
It ain't Burger King.
Link Posted: 9/15/2005 5:18:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JacobusRex's wife:
Precious little girl in the pic! What a cutie!



Thanks !


Originally Posted By JacobusRex's wife:
Our government has done a thorough job for years of screwing up the domestic adoption process and it has lead to more and more families adopting overseas. It is a shame, but that same screwed up system lead us to getting the most wonderful gift we could have ever gotten -- our daughter.



+1


LB
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