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Posted: 4/23/2013 6:15:05 PM EDT
I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.

Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:16:48 PM EDT
Explain why it's bad?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:16:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:22:45 PM EDT
thuper
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:24:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
who fucking cares


They are assaulting Russia on all fronts and winning.  Seriously, this is a fight I don't give a shit about anymore.  Too many other big ticket items on the docket for the left that have to be fought.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:26:11 PM EDT



Originally Posted By CRC:


I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.





Lol wut? Libertarians want the government out of personal associations, not creeping further into people's lives.

 
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:43:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Originally Posted By CRC:
I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.


Lol wut? Libertarians want the government out of personal associations, not creeping further into people's lives.  


So what is the libertarian position on states legalizing gay marriage?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:46:27 PM EDT
Will employers be required to give spousal benifits (medical/dental) to gay couples?
Will churches be forced to conduct gay marriages?
Will wedding facilities be required to host gay wedding receptions?

if the answer to all of those is no then I have no problem with the state passing a gay marriage law.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:48:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Originally Posted By CRC:
I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.


Lol wut? Libertarians want the government out of personal associations, not creeping further into people's lives.  


So what is the libertarian position on states legalizing gay marriage?



1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.


looks like they oppose it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:55:20 PM EDT
The govt should stay out of the marriage business but it seems they want to creep further and further into it.

Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:55:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:56:36 PM EDT
I could really care less if anyone wants to get married, but as long as marriage is required for your partner to get health benefits, or to get the tax breaks that go along with being married then it should be allowed. The government really needs to get all the way out of it, but since that wont happen.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:57:25 PM EDT
Fabulous
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:58:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tribalgeek:
I could really care less if anyone wants to get married, but as long as marriage is required for your partner to get health benefits, or to get the tax breaks that go along with being married then it should be allowed. The government really needs to get all the way out of it, but since that wont happen.


An employer shouldnt be required to provide health insurance benifits to spouses, period. If he choses to provide spousal benifits they state should have no say in which spouses.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 6:59:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
The govt should stay out of the marriage business but it seems they want to creep further and further into it.



They are already IN the marriage business. They already can tell you who you can and cant marry. What do you think a marriage license is for? Not to mention the fact that they give married couples some nice tax breaks.

They are waist deep in the marriage business. However I agree, they should stay they hell out of it, meaning the government cant put restrictions on who can be married, you no longer get ANY tax benefits out of it, and you don't need a license from the government.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:02:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By x5060:
Originally Posted By CRC:
The govt should stay out of the marriage business but it seems they want to creep further and further into it.



They are already IN the marriage business. They already can tell you who you can and cant marry. What do you think a marriage license is for? Not to mention the fact that they give married couples some nice tax breaks.

They are waist deep in the marriage business. However I agree, they should stay they hell out of it, meaning the government cant put restrictions on who can be married, you no longer get ANY tax benefits out of it, and you don't need a license from the government.


Is this push about legalizing "gay marriage" simply an attempt by  folks to get the same benefits other people get?

Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:03:09 PM EDT
Instead of moaning about gay marriage, you should be worried about ALL marriage being government-sanctioned.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:04:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Originally Posted By x5060:
Originally Posted By CRC:
The govt should stay out of the marriage business but it seems they want to creep further and further into it.



They are already IN the marriage business. They already can tell you who you can and cant marry. What do you think a marriage license is for? Not to mention the fact that they give married couples some nice tax breaks.

They are waist deep in the marriage business. However I agree, they should stay they hell out of it, meaning the government cant put restrictions on who can be married, you no longer get ANY tax benefits out of it, and you don't need a license from the government.


Is this push about legalizing "gay marriage" simply an attempt by  folks to get the same benefits other people get?



I would say it is about a lot of things, that being one of them. Another would be putting strictly religious criteria on tax benefits. Another would be the government NOT sticking its nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:05:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By UberPhLuBB:
Instead of moaning about gay marriage, you should be worried about ALL marriage being government-sanctioned.


You, sir, get it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:07:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By x5060:
Another would be the government NOT sticking its nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.


BS.  Name the last time the government cared what two people do in a bedroom unless it involved prostitution, which gay marriage does not address.  That's a talking point, and not a very good one.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:10:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Is this push about legalizing "gay marriage" simply an attempt by  folks to get the same benefits other people get?



You know, it might just be that there are people who love other people of the same sex and feel really passionate about having the same protections under law that traditional married couples have.

But, ya know, if you just want to make it a "free money" kinda thing, you can do that too.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:16:50 PM EDT
Aren't protections a type of benefit?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:23:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flats:
Originally Posted By x5060:
Another would be the government NOT sticking its nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.


BS.  Name the last time the government cared what two people do in a bedroom unless it involved prostitution, which gay marriage does not address.  That's a talking point, and not a very good one.


http://theweek.com/article/index/242412/why-do-so-many-states-still-have-anti-sodomy-laws
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:24:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Will employers be required to give spousal benifits (medical/dental) to gay couples?
Will churches be forced to conduct gay marriages?
Will wedding facilities be required to host gay wedding receptions?

if the answer to all of those is no then I have no problem with the state passing a gay marriage law.


Yes
No
No

The whole reason to get married is for the fucking benefits.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:27:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By x5060:
Originally Posted By Flats:
Originally Posted By x5060:
Another would be the government NOT sticking its nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.


BS.  Name the last time the government cared what two people do in a bedroom unless it involved prostitution, which gay marriage does not address.  That's a talking point, and not a very good one.


http://theweek.com/article/index/242412/why-do-so-many-states-still-have-anti-sodomy-laws


List all the times they've been enforced in the last 20 years.
Explain how legalizing gay marriage will nullify them.

There are reasons to argue for gay marriage.  Claiming that it gets the government out of the bedroom isn't one of them.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:30:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Aren't protections a type of benefit?


Not sure where you're going with this.  Are you saying that the 14th amendment and Equal Protection are overreaching in general, or just in regards to sexual orientation?  Lawrence v Texas was a step in the direction of the latter, but there's been no substantive ruling that sexual orientation is currently protected.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:31:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Aren't protections a type of benefit?


I would say there are a lot of important benefits being withheld on strictly religious criteria, but benefits aren't the only reason. It has a lot to do with equality. Saying "Those people are allowed to be married because they love the right people, but you dont love the right people so you are not allowed to be married." is pretty bullshit. And this is where people bring up that stupid "Separate but equal" crap about civil unions. (Im not saying you were going to bring up that stupid argument, i figure you're smarter than that) If it didnt work in the civil rights department before, it isnt going to work this time.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:32:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 7:36:12 PM EDT by GarandM1]





Originally Posted By Slateman:





Originally Posted By AR15fan:


Will employers be required to give spousal benifits (medical/dental) to gay couples?


Will churches be forced to conduct gay marriages?


Will wedding facilities be required to host gay wedding receptions?





if the answer to all of those is no then I have no problem with the state passing a gay marriage law.






Yes


No


No





The whole reason to get married is for the fucking benefits.



Number three is already "yes", at least in Washington.  Number 2 is already on the gay-rights activist's list, as soon as it becomes politically feasible.





http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-18/national/38638587_1_sexual-orientation-flower-shop-lawsuit



ETA:  New Mexico, too:



http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557098/New-Mexico-photographer-loses-third-round-of-gay-discrimination-case-but-attorneys-vow-fight-isnt.html?pg=all





 
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:33:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Flats:
Originally Posted By x5060:
Originally Posted By Flats:
Originally Posted By x5060:
Another would be the government NOT sticking its nose into the bedroom of consenting adults.


BS.  Name the last time the government cared what two people do in a bedroom unless it involved prostitution, which gay marriage does not address.  That's a talking point, and not a very good one.


http://theweek.com/article/index/242412/why-do-so-many-states-still-have-anti-sodomy-laws


List all the times they've been enforced in the last 20 years.
Explain how legalizing gay marriage will nullify them.

There are reasons to argue for gay marriage.  Claiming that it gets the government out of the bedroom isn't one of them.


Does it matter if it is enforced? If it is illegal, then it is illegal.

It doesnt solve the issue entirely, no one has claimed it will. Its still movement in the right direction.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:33:33 PM EDT
Ok, I'm sure society will collapse and the world will end this time.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:37:57 PM EDT
Talk to me about taxes, the Patriot Act, the 2nd amendment and a republican that can win in 2016 and you'll have my attention.
Other than
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:37:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By x5060:

Does it matter if it is enforced? If it is illegal, then it is illegal.

It doesnt solve the issue entirely, no one has claimed it will. Its still movement in the right direction.


It matters because you're making the claim that legalizing gay marriage will solve this particular problem.  You can't show that it's a problem, and you can't show that legalizing gay marriage will take those laws off the books.  It's a BS claim.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:39:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
Talk to me about taxes, the Patriot Act, the 2nd amendment and a republican that can win in 2016 and you'll have my attention.
Other than


its suddenly become the issue of the moment in Democrat controlled states

They claim its a huge revenue enhancer
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:41:56 PM EDT
What if we just get the gov't out of all marriage?  Sign a contract with whoever you want.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:42:32 PM EDT
Well what the hell, why not let them do it, yes let the gays get married.  
You support all the other freedoms why all the gay hate.  

Look the lawyers need more business!
Gay divorce has already become a problem in one state that jumped on the homo marriage band wagon.
One of the first gay couples to be married wanted to split and the judge said no because they did not have a gay divorce law.

Also the flower shops, the wedding cake folks and all the rest of that bunch get rich, more jobs for everyone.

Lawyers will make more money too.

Remember when your GF gave you BJ’s, then you put a ring on it and years later you get nothing?  

I wonder for the gay ass rangers if the same thing happens when they get married?  

For the muff divers of the other gay side maybe she don’t lick the clit as hard as she used to?
Really make it harder than your nipple on a cold day, but now you only get the finger or vibrator?  

If you are on GD and gay just wondering if the ring and honey I have a headache happen to you folks too?
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 7:44:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Aren't protections a type of benefit?


yes.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:14:08 PM EDT
I'm from Delaware, and personally do not give a shit, as long as they do not force churches to allow the ceramonies. Aside from that, I don't see what's so wrong about employers having to give benefits to the gay employees spouse.

I've only ranted against friends still in Delaware who are for this because; they care more about that shit than the 2nd amendment issues.

If you care more about the legalization of weed, and gay marriage, than your 2nd amendment rights, you can GTFO.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:17:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
who fucking cares


This
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:32:15 PM EDT
Blue State, no suprise.
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:32:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cowboy1967:
Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
who fucking cares


This


x2
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:44:37 PM EDT



Originally Posted By AKengineer:





Originally Posted By CRC:

I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.





Lol wut? Libertarians want the government out of personal associations, not creeping further into people's lives.  
Gary Johnson disagrees with you,  he supports gay marriage.





 
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:52:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2013 10:21:50 PM EDT by Dunkelzahn]





Originally Posted By AR15fan:





Originally Posted By CRC:




Originally Posted By AKengineer:
Originally Posted By CRC:


I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.








Lol wut? Libertarians want the government out of personal associations, not creeping further into people's lives.  






So what is the libertarian position on states legalizing gay marriage?

1.3 Personal Relationships





Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships.
looks like they oppose it.
Wrong, the libertarian party is opposed to the federal government legalizing gay marriage but supports states legalizing it.... Like Delaware.






ETA: I think you are misinterpreting what you quoted.  They are saying the government shouldn't restrict homosexuals from being married.  As I said above though, they are opposed to federal legislation, but not state-level legislation.  
 

 
Link Posted: 4/23/2013 8:52:47 PM EDT
I was talking about with another libertarian friend of mine today, and the consensus that we reached that (many) republicans don't want gays to get married for the same reason many liberals want to ban assault weapons: fear of something that they really know nothing about, and will not have any effect on them outside of their emotions.  Personally homosexuality makes me uncomfortable, but they are people, no different from you or I, and in my beliefs people should mind their own business and butt out of things that don't concern them.  With that reasoning, I am unable to find a single legitimate reason that should prevent them from being married other than making ARFCOM uncomfortable.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 4:54:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wootizzle:
I'm from Delaware, and personally do not give a shit, as long as they do not force churches to allow the ceramonies. Aside from that, I don't see what's so wrong about employers having to give benefits to the gay employees spouse.

I've only ranted against friends still in Delaware who are for this because; they care more about that shit than the 2nd amendment issues.

If you care more about the legalization of weed, and gay marriage, than your 2nd amendment rights, you can GTFO.


Then you have a very, very warped view of freedom.  At least you recognize the simple fact that the power of the state will be used to force private individuals to recognize and endorse gay marriage.  The "it doesn't affect you" crowd is so ignorant they don't even see it.  You see it,  you're just OK with it.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 4:57:54 AM EDT





incremental communism




enjoy your chains serfs






Link Posted: 4/24/2013 4:59:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
I'm sure the libertarian wing of the Republican party thinks this a great thing that Republicans should be doing also.



What part of "separation of Church & State" do you not get?

Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:00:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Ok, I'm sure society will collapse and the world will end this time.


or it wont
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:16:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Keekleberrys:
who fucking cares


Exactly.  The people bitching about gay marriage get on my nerves more than the gays that want to marry.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:18:48 AM EDT
It's so funny to see the " govt needs to stay out of my personal life" and " I'm tired of unfair taxation and protections" types scream that govt needs to protect their marriage and their tax rate.

Legalize gay marriage and weed and the only things that will happen are gays and pot smokers have nothing left to talk about.


End single person non-breeder discrimination
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:19:10 AM EDT
Good.  This is a retarded thing for a party to hang up on.
Link Posted: 4/24/2013 5:20:22 AM EDT
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