User Panel
Posted: 1/1/2003 11:34:30 AM EDT
Okay, let's try this one again without the personal attacks okay? Liberals with guns need not participate.
Quoted: (snip) huh? Or, could it be possible that we can't always assure our own safety and that we daily rely on the forebearance of others for our lives? (snip) If you think that you can assure your safety as a total individual, with no help from anyone else, such a simple mindset will quickly lead you to hypocrisy. No man is an island. View Quote What is this crap about depending on other people for your own protection? Why, then, is it not okay for people to depend on the [b]State[/b] for protection? Guess you just don't see your hypocrisy... Quoted: Not coming to the rescue of someone in need is exactly whats wrong with this country. Not the only thing but a big one. Too many people just turn their heads and say it's not their problem. Well, someday it could be. I am just a military cop but I treat everyone with respect until they start becoming disrespectful. If an individual wants to ruin his/her career or life over a speeding ticket so be it. I will always come to the aide of anyone that needs it. Regardless of possible legal ramifications. View Quote You are so right, but do you honestly expect people to come to the aid of strangers when they can be [b]prosecuted[/b] for doing so, or worse, shot by responding officers? That's what the problem is with this country: laws that discourage self-defense of others and cops that shoot first. You're saying you would do it and risk the consequences, or even your very life, for a stranger? All the responses here deal with people coming to aid of people or cops that they [b]know[/b]. Nobody has as yet stated that they would defend a complete stranger with a firearm. |
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I take it you don't consider yourself a member of the militia.
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Nobody has as yet stated that they would defend a complete stranger with a firearm. View Quote Well then let me be the first. |
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ND state law says that it is lawful to use deadly force to defend yourself, someone else or an officer of the law from death or great physical harm. Maybe ND law was set up by people who didn't need to cover their asses all the time and would help others out. Think about that for a minute Kroagnon.
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Doing ones best with whatever tools are on hand to defend someone under criminal attack is simply a matter of decency. I suppose I would even come to your aid if it was needed although I might later find it distasteful.
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I am one of those people that conciders part of being a gentlemen protecting and standing up for the defenseless and weak. Old fashioned and dangerous but I have enough faith in mankind (and a jury).
I know the limits on the use of deadly force in the city, county, and state I live in and know what I'm comfortable with. |
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Let me ask you this:
Who is the LAST to arrive at a crime scene? Perpetrator, Victim or Officer? And why do we call the Police? Because they are the ones with the guns. Now it also depends on WHO we are saving? Woman about to be raped. You witness this going on and you have a firearm. I would definitely use a firearm to save her. Man just robbed a store, bunch of kids tackle him and beat the shit out of him to no end... I doubt it... STRONGLY. |
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I would defend a complete stranger with a firearm. Damn the consequences. I would rather spend a few years in jail and know I saved someones life, then spend the rest of my life watching them die over and over when all I had to do was cinch up my nuts and prevent it.
And I do not think YOU see your hypocrisy. The whole point of this country is to help and defend one another. Liberty doesn't mean "remove all decency". It means take responsibility and do the right thing, even if the consequences are not exactly enjoyable. It means to go about your life, and when you see someone violating anothers liberty, you go DEFEND their LIBERTY. |
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Not everyone is capable of defending themself, as you imply, [b]Kroagnon[/b]. I too would do whatever possible to defend someone else, including strangers. I could not live with myself if I did not. I routinely stop to assist motorists who are broken down too. Perhaps I will pay for it someday, but so far I feel good about it. If I stop, I [b]know[/b] they will be okay. I would hate to read of someone attacked along the road later, that I passed by today.
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I carry for defense of my family, my self, and my friends, and rank thier safety in that order. That is the only reason I carry.
In todays society, there are only certain situations worth risking my future on. Help a stranger, end up being sued or dead (if you have the ability to retreat, and choose not to, you have upped the danger to yourself and removed yourself from a position of being able to defend your family if they are with you). help a cop, end up getting shot by other cops (when the police are answering an officer down, anyone they see in plain clothes armed is going down). The only other situation is if a LEO specificly asks me to help..... once they do that in this state I am entitled to the same medical and legal coverage they have from the government. Winning the gunfight is only the first step on a looooonnnngggg battle that will be fought in the courts. Before you pull your weapon, you had better be prepared to realise that once you pull that trigger you may lose everything you own, and possibly your freedom or life, for doing what you think is teh right thing. Each person who carries must ask themselves eaxactly who they are willing to go through this for. For me, it is family, myself, and close friends. Nobody else is worth sacrificing my or my families future, period. |
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Thread from Brothers of the Shield:
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=76&t=160921[/url] Scott |
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Quoted: ND state law says that it is lawful to use deadly force to defend yourself, someone else or an officer of the law from death or great physical harm. Maybe ND law was set up by people who didn't need to cover their asses all the time and would help others out. Think about that for a minute Kroagnon. View Quote Sounds great to me. Don't get me wrong, I agree with many of you on [b]wanting[/b] to defend someone. You make me out like somebody who couldn't care less if somebody gets assaulted right in front of my house or out in the big bad world ("Corporal Upham" was one reference). You couldn't be more false. But given the state of the laws and the probability of being shot by the police I dare say few people would actually do it. I'm not afraid of being shot by a perp but by a cop who would get away with it legally - and if I shot back I'd be charged with a crime! |
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I wouldn't think twice about defending a complete stranger with a firearm. What kind of a pussy would just stand by and let something bad happen to someone just because they didn't know them?
I came to the defense of a kid once, probably 10-12 yo, from an abusive father. We were out fishing and they were sitting down from us. The dad had been yelling and cussing at the kid all day and then he got his line tangled on something. The dad commenced to yelling and screaming and wildly beating the kid. I calmly walked over to the guy and told him flat out that if he laid another hand on the kid in front of me that we would get sideways. He was speechless and just stared. I took down his license plate as he packed up and I gave it to the police when I got back in town. I wish I could have done more for the kid, but what can you do? That was one son of a bitch that I wouldn't have thought twice about shooting had it come down to it. |
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Quoted: Sounds great to me. Don't get me wrong, I agree with many of you on [b]wanting[/b] to defend someone. [red]You make me out like somebody who couldn't care less if somebody gets assaulted right in front of my house [/red]or out in the big bad world . . . View Quote Um, I believe you did that to yourself, without the assistance of others. [>:/] Edit to fix board code error. |
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City Ordinance, Arlington, Texas:
Section 1.04 Refusing to Assist a Peace Officer A person commits an offense if he knowingly or intentionally refuses to assist a person he knows to be a peace officer from making an arrest, conduct a search, prevent an escape or suppress any disturbance when requested to do so by a peace officer who meets with resistance in discharging his duties. |
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For me, it boils down to a question of conscience. If I intervene to help somebody and get arrested, convicted, and sentenced for my efforts, I have the opportunity to appeal the conviction.
If I stand idly by and let somebody get hurt or killed when I could step in and stop it, I've got the rest of my life to live with that guilt. There is no appeal for a guilty conscience. |
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Quoted: Doing ones best with whatever tools are on hand to defend someone under criminal attack is simply a matter of decency. I suppose I would even come to your aid if it was needed although I might later find it distasteful. View Quote But my defense plan doesn't envision any help of any kind, so I don't expect any help that wouldn't come anyway. If I can't defend myself effectively I die, that's how it works in life. Quoted: What's interesting (and sad) is the original topic came up in the Brothers of the Shield forum. Coming to the aid of an officer under attack. And some people actually seemed to be in favor of just sitting and watch it happen. View Quote An interesting read and yet another reason why defending a stranger with a firearm is discouraged: personal liability in the form of lawsuits. Defending yourself from a lawsuit requires money, often lots of money. Has there ever been a documented case where a victim ever helped out with the legal payments? |
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For those of you who would agree with
Nobody else is worth sacrificing my or my families future, period. View Quote Can you really make such a blanket statement with 100% certainty? Can you tell me that you would not use your firearm in the defense of say a 6 year old from an armed adult because you don't know the 6yr old? That you are totally devoid of compassion for your fellow man? |
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I would defend another person's life in a second. I would employ my firearm to do so.
To NOT do everything in your power to prevent the injury or death of another when you are clearly ABLE to do so, smacks of the rankest cowardice or a distinct and reprehensible lack of concern for your fellow man. In either case, the person who walks away or watches safely from afar is a blot on our society and definitely NOT one whom I would want in a fighting hole with me. Clearly that person's self interest is placed so high on the totem pole as to put all around him at risk when the chips are down. Many years ago, my brother, in his mid-twenties, watched as a large doberman savaged a young woman. I would have drawn my pistol and shot the mutt dead on the spot. I would have done the same if the perp had been human rather than canine. My brother is a disgusting coward (And a flaming liberal anti) who has always run from a conflict of any sort. He knows it and so do the rest of us. That is how I would catagorize those who, "...don't want to get involved" in order to safe themselves from personal injury or legal proceedings. In my county, I suspect that the sheriff would look with favor on my actions if I wasted a perp in the act of a violent crime on a fellow citizen. In any case, I know that my need to protect human life would quickly overcome any nascent fears I might harbor of legal or personal retribution for my actions. I don't consider taking such action as necessary vigilantism either...rather the mark of a good society. This is what I was taught by my parents and my leaders in the military. That is one of several reasons I choose to carry a firearm with me at all times. Finally...I DON'T depend on the state for my protection. That is why I do carry a firearm. Hey...Kroagnon...I'd even come to your aid. Go figure. [:X*] |
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I would like to think that I am a good enough person to come to the aid of those that can't defend themselves. Two of my best friends are police officers. I would hate to think that if they needed help the only people around would think as Kroagnon does.
I bet the family of this girl wishes someone had helped her. [url]cspd.ci.college-station.tx.us/events_news/02-014298u.pdf[/url] |
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Kroagnon,
All the people who have died defending America must have been real chumps then. What was in it for them? I guess they weren't looking out for number one. |
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Quoted: For those of you who would agree with Nobody else is worth sacrificing my or my families future, period. View Quote Can you really make such a blanket statement with 100% certainty? Can you tell me that you would not use your firearm in the defense of say a 6 year old from an armed adult because you don't know the 6yr old? That you are totally devoid of compassion for your fellow man? View Quote No, I can't say it with 100% certainty, indeed nobody can say 100% how they would react in such a situation. But that is how my self defense "attitude" is written in my head. Perhaps I am being cynical, but I have seen up close and personal the results of a good deed turned against someone. He never faced jail time or criminal charges, but the "perps" family sued him for all he was worth. He ended up not having to pay them a dime, but the lawyers, expert witness's, and everything else took him for all he owned. He went from owning a sucessfull business that was growing well, and a home, to working in a local plant on the assembly line and renting a trailer... everything was sold to pay the lawyers. He is a proud man, and refuses to take a dime from anyone.... and I have no doubt he will work his way back up and own his own business again..... but 15 years of hard work were wiped away when he pulled that trigger. The "victim" he saved..... the "perps" ex GF, with a long line of arrests for bad checks, shoplifting, and drug cahrges. |
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Quoted: I carry for defense of my family, my self, and my friends, and rank thier safety in that order. That is the only reason I carry. In todays society, there are only certain situations worth risking my future on. Help a stranger, end up being sued or dead. The only other situation is if a LEO specificly asks me to help..... once they do that in this state I am entitled to the same medical and legal coverage they have from the government. Winning the gunfight is only the first step on a looooonnnngggg battle that will be fought in the courts. Before you pull your weapon, you had better be prepared to realise that once you pull that trigger you may lose everything you own, and possibly your freedom or life, for doing what you think is teh right thing. Each person who carries must ask themselves eaxactly who they are willing to go through this for. For me, it is family, myself, and close friends. Nobody else is worth sacrificing my or my families future, period. View Quote I feel exactly the same way. |
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I would most likely defend someone if I felt it reasonable; it would be a situational decision obviously.]
However, if you don't want to risk your life for someone, that is your choice. You are NOT obligated to be your brother's keeper. But it just may be a good idea. |
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I just have to wonder if there are really people who carry a weapon without liability insurance to go with it?
That not withstanding, note to self. Kroagan neither wants nor needs any help if he's caught in a bad situation. |
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"If I can't defend myself effectively I die, that's how it works in life."
how old are you? |
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Guarantee me full and total protection from civil suit by the turd's family and I would not hesitate to use deadly force to protect a stranger. Otherwise forget it.
If you use deadly force to protect yourself or your family when it is perfectly justified under criminal law you are still going to get sued in civil court. But in the case of protecting myself or my family I would accept that as part of the price for survival. It makes no difference that you were in deadly peril. Some scumbag of a civil lawyer is going to represent the family of the person you shot and try for some big money. He will paint you as a vigillanty that was carrying a gun and just looking for someone to shoot. And represent the dead thug as a model citizen who was on his way to bible study when you wrongfully shot him. They will pay everyone from his neighbors to his families church members to testify to his good character. Why risk being sued motherless for a total stranger? Who is going to help you find a new job when your employer finds some reason to let you go due to pressure from political correct types after you cap someone? Who will provide for your familie's future wellbeing when you are totally broke from being dragged through the civil court system? Until the civil court system is fixed I will consider the use of deadly force to protect a stranger as the height of foolishness. The one exception would be if directed by a police officer to assist him. In that situation I would not hesitate. If the officer was unable to ask for that assistance I would just have to swear later that he in fact did ask. Believe me when I tell you that I know how police reports are written. |
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Quoted: City Ordinance, Arlington, Texas: Section 1.04 Refusing to Assist a Peace Officer A person commits an offense if he knowingly or intentionally refuses to assist a person he knows to be a peace officer from making an arrest, conduct a search, prevent an escape or suppress any disturbance when requested to do so by a peace officer who meets with resistance in discharging his duties. View Quote I wonder when this ordinance was enacted and is even enforced today. Are there any ordinances that makes this a Catch-22 (aka if you use force you can be criminally liable for excessive force, etc)? Quoted: I would defend another person's life in a second. I would employ my firearm to do so. To NOT do everything in your power to prevent the injury or death of another when you are clearly ABLE to do so, smacks of the rankest cowardice or a distinct and reprehensible lack of concern for your fellow man. In either case, the person who walks away or watches safely from afar is a blot on our society and definitely NOT one whom I would want in a fighting hole with me. Clearly that person's self interest is placed so high on the totem pole as to put all around him at risk when the chips are down. View Quote But if your financial situation is such that you can either support your family or defend yourself in court, what choice would you make? And if you go to jail what would happen with your family? See, there are so many things that can go wrong with an impulsive decision. Okay, we have some people that state they would risk their livelihoods to defend strangers. BUT it seems that you are all rural folks where there is significantly different enforcement of laws then there are in the city. How many are city folks? |
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Why risk being sued motherless for a total stranger? View Quote If your parents didn't raise you with the answer that question No one here can help you. Sorry..........very very sorry. |
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How many are city folks? View Quote I live and work in Tallahasse, Florida. Guess that makes me City folk. |
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Quoted: Kroagnon, All the people who have died defending America must have been real chumps then. What was in it for them? I guess they weren't looking out for number one. View Quote Just what the hell is that supposed to mean? Are you actually trying to compare this topic with soldiers fighting in a war zone? For starters they were not subject to the kind of liability "ordinary citizens" like us are. Clarify this statement because as it stands it is totally irrelevant. Quoted: That not withstanding, note to self. Kroagan neither wants nor needs any help if he's caught in a bad situation. View Quote I may very well need it in a given situation but I wouldn't expect you or any other stranger to come to my aid because it wouldn't happen. |
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SGB
"If your parents didn't raise you with the answer that question No one here can help you. Sorry..........very very sorry." Who appointed you as spokesperson for everyone here? To answer your question, my parents did not raise a fool. |
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On that link I posted for the similat topic from Brothers of the Shield:
Some localities (here in Virginia) promote their officers doing the following: 1) Telling citizens they will lose their gun if they help a police officer 2) Telling citizens that they have been trained to shoot armed civilians on sight 3) Telling citizens they have been trained to refuse help if they are being murdered All that is really sad. I can see people being reluctant to help if they live in a locality with the police taught that mindset..... Scott |
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Kroagnon,
It is obvious that if the founding fathers of these United States had had your attitude, we'd all be saying God save the queen (king) right now. I can't risk loosing my farm and income by rebelling over something as small as a little tea tax... |
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Quoted: SGB "If your parents didn't raise you with the answer that question No one here can help you. Sorry..........very very sorry." Who appointed you as spokesperson for everyone here? To answer your question, my parents did not raise a fool. View Quote I wouldn't call you a fool, but I definately can't call you a person of strong moral character. |
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Quoted: How many are city folks? View Quote I live and work in Tallahasse, Florida. Guess that makes me City folk. View Quote Jacksonville FL. Largest city landwise on the east coast. Population 1 million +. All I can say is what I HAVE done in the past. I see a concurring theme here. The placement of material possessions over moral conscience. I could be rich beyond imagination, and yet I could not live with a heavy conscience. I cannot stand idly by, and not do all within my power to stop/prevent something bad happening to my fellow man. Everyone is free to make their own choice. I have chosen my course in the past, and the reprecussions that some speak of that they say WILL absolutely positively happen, have not. If they had, I would face them with my head held high, and my conscience clear. Why do men choose to become firefighters and rush into burning buildings to resue a complete stranger, knowing that they could easily be killed, widowing their wife, orphaning their children, financially devestating their family should they be severely injured and no longer able to work? Because its their job? Because they want to be rich? Last time I checked, firefighters chose to do that of their own free will, and I have not seen many become rich from it. Yes, I will help. In the eyes of my fellow man and God, consequences come what may, I will know I did what I could. I will teach my sons the same, as my grandfather taught my father, and my father taught me. You have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. The world is bigger than just me. [edited cause I caint spell] |
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Quoted: SGB "If your parents didn't raise you with the answer that question No one here can help you. Sorry..........very very sorry." [red]Who appointed you as spokesperson for everyone here?[/red] View Quote I don't believe that I answered as a spokesperson for everyone here. I answered on my own behalf, it's my opinion. To answer your question, my parents did not raise a fool. View Quote And that would be [b]your[/b] opinion[;)] |
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Quoted: It is obvious that if the founding fathers of these United States had had your attitude, we'd all be saying God save the queen (king) right now. I can't risk loosing my farm and income by rebelling over something as small as a little tea tax... View Quote Uh, no, no, no, you're not going to label me an unpatriotic Communist. I will gladly jump into any armed struggle against a tyrannical US government with the rest of you regardless of the personal or legal consequences, but I won't do it if I'm the only one. Just say the word. That situation would be far more important that one's own personal life. I doubt very much you can state the same thing. You still haven't clarified your earlier statement. Too scared to back it up? |
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Kroagnon,
What do I have to be scared of from you? You can read, I assume (might be a bad assumption). People fighting for this country have died saving people's lives and liberty they have never seen or met. You on the otherhand wouldn't cross the street to help someone getting beaten or worse. You wouldn't do this because you might get sued and loose all your money. How shallow is that? How pathetic is that? Have sad is that? It's not my problem, so I'll just turn away. Pathetic. |
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As for the question of would you defend a stranger with a gun, the answer is a no brainer.
HELL YES! I have already more than once! Thank God, no fired weapons, close but nope. I'd do it for you and maybe I'm stupid but I would expect the same from any other citizen. The war against crime is just that a war and you are in it like it or not. I will not stand by and watch someone killed, raped, or hell even their property destroyed. The people that feel otherwise only encourage the crime rate to climb higher. |
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Quoted: I carry for defense of my family, my self, and my friends, and rank thier safety in that order. That is the only reason I carry. In todays society, there are only certain situations worth risking my future on. Help a stranger, end up being sued or dead (if you have the ability to retreat, and choose not to, you have upped the danger to yourself and removed yourself from a position of being able to defend your family if they are with you). help a cop, end up getting shot by other cops (when the police are answering an officer down, anyone they see in plain clothes armed is going down). The only other situation is if a LEO specificly asks me to help..... once they do that in this state I am entitled to the same medical and legal coverage they have from the government. Winning the gunfight is only the first step on a looooonnnngggg battle that will be fought in the courts. Before you pull your weapon, you had better be prepared to realise that once you pull that trigger you may lose everything you own, and possibly your freedom or life, for doing what you think is teh right thing. Each person who carries must ask themselves eaxactly who they are willing to go through this for. For me, it is family, myself, and close friends. Nobody else is worth sacrificing my or my families future, period. View Quote I'm forced to agree 100% with Garand Shooter. |
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a few years ago..
on a lake far, far away.. we were loading the boat at the ramp, when at a campsite next to the ramp a guy around 6'3 250lbs got out of a car with a ball bat (wooden) and hit a guy at the campsite once... right before the 2nd hit..the ruger came out..from the boat console. i jacked the slide and said "drop the bat" he looked up at me and IMMEDIATELY dropped the bat when he saw a very serious person..aiming a 9mm at his X. my friends said the look on his face was priceless and a look that they would never forget. if a person, any person..takes on the responsiblity of carrying a weapon for self-defense. he or she carries a moral obligation to protect ANY individual that is in danger of physical harm. thats what seperates humans..from animals lower on the down the genus chart. its called MORAL RESPONSIBILITY. i question the rationality and testical characteristics of MAN..who would say differently. just my opinion.. i had a girlfriend that was stabbed in the face in college and i wish someone had been able to help her out.. she lived..with a couple of plastic surgeries..is back to normal. |
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Without question I would indeed defend a third party person with my firearm. It is for the very simple reason that [b]it's the right thing to do.[/b]
Perhaps one day of of my family members or friends (or myself) might need help. I would hope that another decent pistol packin' citizen would help them/me. CMOS |
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Quoted: Without question I would indeed defend a third party person with my firearm. It is for the very simple reason that [b]it's the right thing to do.[/b] Perhaps one day of of my family members or friends (or myself) might need help. I would hope that another decent pistol packin' citizen would help them/me. CMOS View Quote Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If my wife, kids, friends, family, etc. were ever in a bad situation, I sur ehope someone would help them out. I cant want that though and not be willing to do the same myself. |
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What I find absolutely amazing is the fact that some people who have spoken out here think more about the fact that they may get sued and MAYBE lose some money, than they do about helping out a FELLOW human being.
Some of you people are very sad indeed [:(] What if the person you failed to help out (who died because of your lack of involvement) turned out to be a relative of someone you know, a neighbor that you didn't recognize, or any one of a million other variables? How can you HONESTLY say that you could look yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life and feel you did nothing wrong? If you hear a neighbor screaming in the middle of the night, what would you do, roll over and go back to sleep, because you are worried about being sued? And the point about being shot by any LEO's coming to back-up the call, is utter nonsene. What are the odds, about 1 in a billion? Have you actually been in any high adreneline situations? The senses become very high and things DO slow down in your mind. The overall view is very accurate. What I have seen written here by a select few is absolutely pathetic. |
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Help a stranger, end up being sued or dead View Quote Or in jail even if you do what any reasonable person would consider is the right thing to do. South Carolina, and as I understand it several other states, uses a "stand in the shoes" (also called "alter ego") defense doctrine. In other words, if you intervene on behalf of someone, then legally, you are treated just as the person you are protecting. From one textbook I have, "[if the person you are defending] had the right to defend himself, then the intervening party is also protected by that right. If, however, the party had no right to use force...then the intervening party will also assume the liability of the person on whose behalf he interfered." SC also adds a "without legal fault" clause to the defense of others law. The person you are defending must be without fault in bringing on the situation. The instructor of our CCW class gave several examples he personally saw where men, who had come to the aid of woman, ended-up in jail in South Carolina, because the person they were defending were not without fault in the situation (e.g. started the argument, didn't retreat, were legally drunk, were mentally ill, etc.). Legally speaking, it is very risky in some states to defend someone else. With that said, I'd still do it, because how would you live with yourself if you didn't and should have?z |
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Kroagnon, you failed to respond in the original thread. Let's not let this get too far from what you said about the type of person you are which is what opened this can of worms...
Quoted: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: since when is it not every citizen's responsibility to defend or protect our fellow americans? Police officer or not (most of which are good- take off the tin foil hat!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since when IS it your responsibility to protect others, especially strangers? It's every individual's own responsibility for their own safety - or don't you people believe your own arguments for concealed carry laws? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quoted: I see your point... Hell, why jump in if you see a woman being attacked, she may be a bitch or laughed at your advances one night. Pathetic comment. Pathetic mindset. Pathetic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And a pathetic response from you. I'll ask it again: why would you come to the cop's aid when he and his backup will order you to drop your weapon or just shoot you right there? Why would you put yourself in that position? So none of you have ever paid attention to the real life stories told in this forum on this very subject? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reply: ARDOC stated "My first reaction would be to help the officer with my weapon. Regardless I dont think I could sit there and watch an officer get gunned down." Says alot about him that that was HIS FIRST REACTION! He never said it was his RESPONSIBILITY. Some people RISE to the occasion, some slither under a rock and make excuses. Shit, help the guy. When backup arrives put your gun down and your hands up, or get on the fing ground. Are you afraid of getting your shirt dirty? You are talking about a man's life. But hey, if your position is "every man for himself, screw anyone else" then have a good life, Lone Ranger. Your first response is "Fuck that cop. He may be a JBT." Plus your quote, "Since when IS it your responsibility to protect others, especially strangers? It's every individual's own responsibility for their own safety ..." says alot about you too Bud. I say again, "PATHETIC." (DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: NOTE TO MODS; I AM REFERRING TO HIS ATTITUDE, NOT HIM.) |
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I think some people are just being very realistic under current stupid circumstances that politicians and lawyers created. I won't say anything bad at them. Because I trust if not for those crazy law suits, they would certainly help any people being harmed in their sight.
That said, I will gladly help if I have my firearm in my possession. But I would make sure of this - A person that I'm helping is going to live if I help him/her. I don't want to get into any damned lawsuits if I effectively have saved no one's life. A person that I'm determined to shoot to stop... has got to be lying down on the floor quietly without any movement. I don't want any rhetoric perp's parents crying over the court in order to sue me. One thing I've learned from Gun board is that when you are determined to shoot someone, its shoot to stop for police and shoot to kill for us. And no sir, I don't want media reporting fine citizens like you or me "a person charged with murder with deadly assualt weapon (AR-15 or pistols)" crap. They will deliberately omit "while trying to rescue an downed officer". [Edited for grammar and replaced word "dead"] |
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In Minnesota, we have what's known as the Good Samaritan clause in which you CAN BE PROSECUTED IF YOU DO NOT TRY TO HELP in some situations. If I were armed, and I saw a girl getting raped, I wouldn't kill, but I'd kick the living shit out of the guy if he were unarmed. If armed, he's dead. This world is a really messed up place, and if you YOURSELF do not take measures to protect YOURSELF, then you *ARE* an idiot! (I admit, I'm an idiot at times as well)
However, ponder this thought: What if a person who has been a long-term enemy of yours due to him physically threatening your safety, is being forcefully mugged? Do you help your enemy? This question arose today. I was told a guy I know of, loathe, and despise, was violently mugged/robbed. I'm sorry, but I LAUGHED! Here's this "Bada$$" guy who threatens me, often did the shoulder-clashing rude behavior to me, getting beaten & his mugged! I'm sorry, but that was instant KARMA right in his face... I hope I never get a taste of instant KARMA, but I hear Microwave KARMA isn't too bad. CYA's Carefully so you can cover someone else's if necessary. |
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I ... do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of The United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God. View Quote I feel this oath includes the implied task of defending the *people* of the united states, whether I know them personally or not. |
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