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Posted: 10/2/2005 9:58:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:59:49 PM EDT by bubba99]
Just got a call from the landowner of my lease in Alabama. Our biologist suggests the following for 6200 acres:

Cull 125 does.
Harvest 25-30 cull bucks.
Harvest 10 mature bucks.

I could live with the buck harvest but the does are gonna be a major PIA. Only 4 hunteres on the lease and me and Msbubba are 2 of them. Killing the does is no problem but DAMN that is gonna be a lot of work after the fact and the process fee is about $25 bucks each. They will be donated to a food bank.

10 weeks to kill 80 deer... (our half)

I had planned to spend 2 weeks in Texas and another 10 days in Arizona for my Coues. I am not sure what to do? Damn that is gonna be a ton of work...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:01:55 PM EDT
Sounds like a good target practice session to me
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:17:04 PM EDT
We had the same problem several years ago. On 1300 acres we were supposed to kill around 40 deer a year but we only had 5 people hunting. The most I ever killed in a season was seven (five of 'em does), by choice, I would see deer almost everyday. Cleaning and processing gets old as well. There was no shortage of people I knew that wanted to come shoot a doe though, and we always brought a lot of guests out during the year or let people bring their kids out who had never killed a deer before.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:28:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
We had the same problem several years ago. On 1300 acres we were supposed to kill around 40 deer a year but we only had 5 people hunting. The most I ever killed in a season was seven (five of 'em does), by choice, I would see deer almost everyday. Cleaning and processing gets old as well. There was no shortage of people I knew that wanted to come shoot a doe though, and we always brought a lot of guests out during the year or let people bring their kids out who had never killed a deer before.



I really, REALLY wish I could take guests but EVERY single time I have tried to host someone it has gone bad. Had a guy two years ago shoot a 1 1/2 year old 9 point. Tired of searching for wounded deer. Someone shoots a button or a spike instead of their allotted doe. Litter, usually Cigarrette butts. Drunks. People argue with me about what stand they want. Just a ton of horseshit that I don't want to deal with. I may take my nephew, I can still knock him sensless if needed. (joke)

I really do wish I could find some friends who understand modern deer management, and respect my requests.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 10:32:02 PM EDT by FNC80]
How about building a cooler, ageing them, and butchering them yourself to avoid the processing fee? Invite some friends to help out. Lots of meat for friends and family. Steaks, roasts, chops, jerky, summer sausage, hamburger...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:32:36 PM EDT
Need help?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:32:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:37:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FNC80:
How about building a cooler, ageing them, and butchering them yourself to avoid the processing fee? Invite some friends to help out. Lots of meat for friends and family. Steaks, roasts, chops, jerky, summer sausage, hamburger...



I already do that with the first 10 or 12 does. The cooler will be full by the third day of season...
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:39:27 PM EDT
Forgot you were talking about 80 deer...Damn.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:40:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Will work for deer meat.



I would happily trade you a Alabama hunt for a south Texas hunt. Seriously.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 10:41:05 PM EDT by FNC80]
.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:06:35 PM EDT

Next time some numbnutz says "You can't hunt deer with a machine gun", I'm pointing them to this thread.

Jim
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:09:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bubba99:
I really, REALLY wish I could take guests but EVERY single time I have tried to host someone it has gone bad. Had a guy two years ago shoot a 1 1/2 year old 9 point. Tired of searching for wounded deer. Someone shoots a button or a spike instead of their allotted doe. Litter, usually Cigarrette butts. Drunks. People argue with me about what stand they want. Just a ton of horseshit that I don't want to deal with. I may take my nephew, I can still knock him sensless if needed. (joke)

I really do wish I could find some friends who understand modern deer management, and respect my requests.



Check the area Hunter Education Instructors, they are used to teaching about ethics, responsibility etc.
I would guess these unpaid volunteers who give so freely of thier time and effort would very much appreciate getting invited to shoot a couple does.

I am also guessing they would not litter or argue with you about what area to hunt.

(Yes I am a Hunter Education Instructor)
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:10:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 12:11:18 AM EDT by Specop_007]

Originally Posted By bubba99:

Originally Posted By LANCEMAN:
We had the same problem several years ago. On 1300 acres we were supposed to kill around 40 deer a year but we only had 5 people hunting. The most I ever killed in a season was seven (five of 'em does), by choice, I would see deer almost everyday. Cleaning and processing gets old as well. There was no shortage of people I knew that wanted to come shoot a doe though, and we always brought a lot of guests out during the year or let people bring their kids out who had never killed a deer before.



I really, REALLY wish I could take guests but EVERY single time I have tried to host someone it has gone bad. Had a guy two years ago shoot a 1 1/2 year old 9 point. Tired of searching for wounded deer. Someone shoots a button or a spike instead of their allotted doe. Litter, usually Cigarrette butts. Drunks. People argue with me about what stand they want. Just a ton of horseshit that I don't want to deal with. I may take my nephew, I can still knock him sensless if needed. (joke)

I really do wish I could find some friends who understand modern deer management, and respect my requests.




Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:13:54 AM EDT
Maybe you should hunt at night with a rifle equipped with a suppressor and thermal scope
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:57:15 AM EDT
For the first time in 14 years, I don't belong to a hunting club, so I was planning on sitting out this season.

However, if you really need the help, I live in North Alabama, like to kill does only and leave places where I am a guest cleaner than I found them.

Merlin
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:19:35 AM EDT
this is where i get in trouble for saying you need to shoot them and leave them lay.
we do this with hogs all the time in Texas. sure you waste meat but if you want to have an
effective system you WILL have to get this situation under control. .

you are 150 deer over on your 6000 acres. at four hunters that is 37 deer per hunter. or if you are up there for 4 weekends in a row you each have to shoot 10 deer every weekend. so every doe you see must be shot! can you EACH skin, clean and quarter 5 deer a day? i can but i don't want to. now do you have a place to put almost 2000 pounds of deer meat? can you eat or give away that much in a year?

back to shooting and leaving them lay. the first year will be bad. a lot of dead deer on the property. the next season will be back in balance. it sucks but i don't think you can do it any other way.

i don't think you could run a boy scout troop or two in there without it becoming a nightmare.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:30:57 AM EDT
Avid reliable bow hunter available! Send PM for details!

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:06:30 AM EDT
Wow, tough situation.

As much as I hate shooting and leaving them lay, it might be easier and definitely safer than bring 20-30 people you barely know or don't know to help you out.

I would normally volunteer for something like this (can't this year, no time) but I wouldn't expect my offer for help to be accepted, because you don't know me from Adam. And you have to trust me not to do stupid things with firearms, take directions, etc.

Of course if you can come up with a hunter army, that's the right thing to do. Can you find people that will take deer to skin and process? Probably not since it sounds like you've got plenty of deer around, but on occasion when we harvest more deer than we want in our party, we have no problem with giving them to others for processing.

Hope you find a suitable management strategy. And who says hunters don't care about conservation? THis just gives you proof that we do.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:48:09 AM EDT
I fail to see the trouble here.....

J/K
ARCOM deer hunt?

CH
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:05:19 AM EDT
6200 acres? I'll bet you could fit at least 2-3 more hunters on that.

- Tactical, from the lands of 1 hunter every 10 acres or less.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:24:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Next time some numbnutz says "You can't hunt deer with a machine gun", I'm pointing them to this thread.

Jim



Greatest quote ever.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 1:50:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Illinigunner21:

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
Next time some numbnutz says "You can't hunt deer with a machine gun", I'm pointing them to this thread.

Jim



Greatest quote ever.



Lmao...I might even set claymores...
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:02:06 PM EDT
It may not be as bad as I made it sound.

Alabama has a 10 week season, roughly. I'll probably spend 6 weeks there. I don't disagree with the leaving them laying theory but I will donate them to the food banks. (they only accept processed deer. )

I am considering let some of my hired hands kill a couple of does, but the main reason I hunt so much is to get away from them...

I normally kill 25 or so deer a year, but never in such a short time frame. I wish the anti-hunting crowd could see a decimated whitetail due to malnurishment and overcrowding.

And I can't argue with the biologist. In the past four seasons our trophy potential has grown at an outstanding rate. I killed two 160 class bucks last year and let numerous (a lot) immature 8 and ten point deer walk. I really expect to see some B&C class deer soon. So maybe it is well worth the hassle of killing 125 does. Who knows?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:03:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 2:04:09 PM EDT by Tango7]

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Need help?



+1... Deer camp in the U.P. is probably gonna be too expensive this year... but the inlaws are in StL...
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:32:53 PM EDT
Whatever you do, don't kill them and let them rot in the woods.

Unethical.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:35:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By entropy:
Whatever you do, don't kill them and let them rot in the woods.

Unethical.




I won't waste any. Would Starvation be more ethical?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:41:58 PM EDT
I process my own, saves lots of money and really isn't that hard to do. I usually don't take any more than 2 or 3 a year.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:08:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By entropy:
Whatever you do, don't kill them and let them rot in the woods.

Unethical.




And most likely illegal.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:02:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 4:03:34 AM EDT by Older_Crow]
I'm retiring in late Janurary. If ya still need assistance after that drop me an IM.

(I work for venison!)
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:06:53 AM EDT
I have never understood what a cull buck is. As a general rule I won't shoot a buck if it has less than eight points. The spread must be at least 16" on the 8. I have seen people shoot decient 6 pointers and say that it was a cull buck- same thing for a spike. Truth is you really don't know for sure how old the deer is until you look at the teeth.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:14:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
I have never understood what a cull buck is. As a general rule I won't shoot a buck if it has less than eight points. The spread must be at least 16" on the 8. I have seen people shoot decient 6 pointers and say that it was a cull buck- same thing for a spike. Truth is you really don't know for sure how old the deer is until you look at the teeth.



Deer can be aged on the hoof rather accurately. If he is 3 1/2 and not producing antlers that are a 8 point typical with at least an 18 inch spread, I cull them because it is not the genetic quality I want on the property. It works to improve the trophy potential of the herd and the culls are eaten also.

And for you naysayers, I have only misjudged the age of one deer in the last for years. And he looked old...
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:19:59 AM EDT
Where in MO?

I know a hunter who had to miss the season last year do to a hidden badger hole.

He has a truck and is used to driving long distances for fishing comps.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:39:40 AM EDT
Why not contact some local National Guard units and see if any returning soldiers would like to do some hunting down there. I'm sure they'd be a bit better behaved than your previous guests.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:22:26 AM EDT
Deer being aged on the hoof is a myth. You cannot even accurately age one by looking at the jaw bone or teeth, the only way to accurately age a deer is to cross section the tooth itself.
The Robert S. Kerr research facility (which has been doing research on live deer in OK) took a board of jaw bones (50) down to Texas A&M to a deer seminar with the leading experts in the field and several experts whom wrote books on aging deer and had them age the jawbones in questions. NONEof the experts came close to the real ages of the deer harvested.
These deer were harvested on the research facility and the biologists knew how old the deer were because they were all tagged as fawns.
Something else that was discovered, that cull spike may grow into the next B&C or P&Y entry and that yearling 8 point may never get any better.
There was one deer in the study that was a button buck as a yearling and a spike as a two year old. As a three year old he scored 150 and as a 4 year old 175 and as a 5 year old 195.
You never know.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:10:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Whitepitt:
Deer being aged on the hoof is a myth. You cannot even accurately age one by looking at the jaw bone or teeth, the only way to accurately age a deer is to cross section the tooth itself.
The Robert S. Kerr research facility (which has been doing research on live deer in OK) took a board of jaw bones (50) down to Texas A&M to a deer seminar with the leading experts in the field and several experts whom wrote books on aging deer and had them age the jawbones in questions. NONEof the experts came close to the real ages of the deer harvested.
These deer were harvested on the research facility and the biologists knew how old the deer were because they were all tagged as fawns.
Something else that was discovered, that cull spike may grow into the next B&C or P&Y entry and that yearling 8 point may never get any better.
There was one deer in the study that was a button buck as a yearling and a spike as a two year old. As a three year old he scored 150 and as a 4 year old 175 and as a 5 year old 195.
You never know.



I understand and agree with your statement to a degree but when I see a swayed backed, roman nosed, gray faced 120 class deer, He is dead. I don't want him in my genetic pool. It works for me. Here. I realize other feel differently but I choose to cull poor genes and it works for me, rather well.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:15:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:21:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigscrun:
I wonder if a Tannerite Block would taste like a salt lick?..........................



My new sig line
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:38:59 PM EDT
And I was all ready to volunteer my time helping with that 80 deer in 10 weeks bit since you were in MO...then I saw the bit about the land being in AL -- which is a bit too far for me to drive.

Best of luck to ya though!
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:52:12 PM EDT
Look at it this way: You could be a suburban hunter who grew up with a hunting tradition,but now has no land,no lease to hunt, and only sparsely deer populated public land with terrible habitat as eligible hunting area in your home state.
Life could be worse!
There are probably many suburban, non-landowning, weekend warrior hunters who would kill for the chance to harvest a reliable doe or two in a weekend's time on a dense populated tract of habitat.


Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:57:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bubba99:
Just got a call from the landowner of my lease in Alabama. Our biologist suggests the following for 6200 acres:

Cull 125 does.
Harvest 25-30 cull bucks.
Harvest 10 mature bucks.

I could live with the buck harvest but the does are gonna be a major PIA. Only 4 hunteres on the lease and me and Msbubba are 2 of them. Killing the does is no problem but DAMN that is gonna be a lot of work after the fact and the process fee is about $25 bucks each. They will be donated to a food bank.

10 weeks to kill 80 deer... (our half)

I had planned to spend 2 weeks in Texas and another 10 days in Arizona for my Coues. I am not sure what to do? Damn that is gonna be a ton of work...

Sorry, no sympathy here.

I live in one of those wonderful states with several million deer, and no one will give you permission to hunt their land. I have bucks crossing my bumper and all over the fields. But all I get to hunt is a postage stamp of a friend's land (for which I am grateful), or a ten-times-over-hunted "Conservation Area." I put out call s for a guide service... NOTHING.

Hunting is a great sport. Too bad I can't participate.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:11:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By bubba99:
Just got a call from the landowner of my lease in Alabama. Our biologist suggests the following for 6200 acres:

Cull 125 does.
Harvest 25-30 cull bucks.
Harvest 10 mature bucks.

I could live with the buck harvest but the does are gonna be a major PIA. Only 4 hunteres on the lease and me and Msbubba are 2 of them. Killing the does is no problem but DAMN that is gonna be a lot of work after the fact and the process fee is about $25 bucks each. They will be donated to a food bank.

10 weeks to kill 80 deer... (our half)

I had planned to spend 2 weeks in Texas and another 10 days in Arizona for my Coues. I am not sure what to do? Damn that is gonna be a ton of work...

Sorry, no sympathy here.

I live in one of those wonderful states with several million deer, and no one will give you permission to hunt their land. I have bucks crossing my bumper and all over the fields. But all I get to hunt is a postage stamp of a friend's land (for which I am grateful), or a ten-times-over-hunted "Conservation Area." I put out call s for a guide service... NOTHING.

Hunting is a great sport. Too bad I can't participate.




The exact reasons I choose to lease...
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:12:25 PM EDT
We were going to have a shoot in early November here in Bama among some members here. We will be willing to go to your Bama property and solve some of the problem for you
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:12:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 1:15:37 PM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
If you have more meat than you know what to do with, may I suggest Hunters for the Hungry? A good cause, and no wasted meat.

ETA: Where in Alabama is the land?
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:19:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
We were going to have a shoot in early November here in Bama among some members here. We will be willing to go to your Bama property and solve some of the problem for you



Thanks to all that have offered. But there is no way I can take unknown guests on this property. After mucho problems in the past, the land owner laid down the law concerning guests. I can not even take all of my family. If anybody wants to lease their own land, I will be glad to hook you up with landowners and available property.

I did not intend to sound like I am whining but I am simply overwelmed by the amount of deer that need to be harvested. I'll donate the meat but it is gonna cost me a lot of money to process and deliver that many does.

I am very grateful to have this deer "problem", as I remember the hard years as well.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:20:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 1:22:19 PM EDT by Whitepitt]
It isn't my "statement", it is a fact from 30+ years of research, I was fortunate enough to go to their last seminar before they move to a bigger research area. We were able to get 30+ years of info.
There are three ages of deer; young, mature and old.
Open it up for a supervised youth hunt.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 1:25:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Whitepitt:
It isn't my "statement", it is a fact from 30+ years of research, I was fortunate enough to go to their last seminar before they move to a bigger research area. We were able to get 30+ years of info.
There are three ages of deer; young, mature and old.
Open it up for a supervised youth hunt.



This is not a thread about management policies.

Manage your land as you wish.

I plan to take a couple of young relatives but there is no way in hell it will be "opened up for a supervised youth hunt."
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:05:00 PM EDT
Did you not like my idea of Hunter Education Instructors or the other idea of returning Veterans?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 3:39:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
If you have more meat than you know what to do with, may I suggest Hunters for the Hungry? A good cause, and no wasted meat.

ETA: Where in Alabama is the land?



we tried H for H in the Houston area several years back with poor results. when we were on our lease one of the rules was that we were each required to shoot two does. and they must be taken before the first half of the season was over. Texas has long seasons. so the second weekend dad and i each pop two does. one haunch goes into the pot and we feed the other hunters. the Deer are gutted, skinned, quartered, boned and on ice that morning. we had a list of telephone numbers for several meat markets that would take deer for H for H. called them up and each one of them wanted between $45.00 and $65.00 to take the deer and that they were charging a processing fee. it seems they expected to have to skin and bone out the deer themselves. so we told them what we had for them but they refused to take the meat without the money as they would still have to cut it into strips so they could put it in a meat grinder. my dad said no problem we would cut the meat up and all they would have to do is grind it. so they said the charge per deer would still be $45.00.
i can hear dad getting annoyed and he says how about if we grind the deer up and give you the whole damn thing and you can stick it up your ass? (he didn't say it exactly that way but we didn't donate any deer either. one of the other guys calls back a couple hours later and says he has a deer that he wants ground up. the guy that answers says sure. just gut it and bring it in with the skin on and they will take care of it. Cost? $45.00. i just think the meat processor should donate a little bit of their time when you give them something for free.

it's sad when you try to donate to a cause only to find those your donating to see it as a way to make money.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:48:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
Did you not like my idea of Hunter Education Instructors or the other idea of returning Veterans?



It sounds like the landowner has said "NO" to having guests hunt his land.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 6:55:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 6:57:43 AM EDT by bubba99]

Originally Posted By FanoftheBlackRifle:

Originally Posted By sum-rifle:
Did you not like my idea of Hunter Education Instructors or the other idea of returning Veterans?



It sounds like the landowner has said "NO" to having guests hunt his land.



I have an agreement with the other 3 leaseholders that we will all be 100 % percent responsible for any guest. I am not willing to risk my lease due to some other moron. I do take a very few guests a year, but I can not take a stranger, no matter what his credentials. It took 10 years to get on the lease and another 4 years to finally get rid of the problem members.

BTW, I sat in on a Hunter Saftey Course last year when Msbubba took the class. The instructor was a typical weekend hunter. I appreciate his dedication, I am thankful for willingness, but do not want to spend my vacation with him nor finance his hunt.
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