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Posted: 8/17/2005 2:12:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2005 5:44:02 AM EDT by chapperjoe]
UPDATE: Just in case you think your opinions don't matter - not only has arfkom picked my car for me, but now my carry pistol too. I got a Kahr PM9 off the EE. Thanks alot! Will report back with range results sometime next week.



Sig P232 vs. Colt 380 (not sure on Plus II or original pocketlite)
plus II


original


sig


I am not oncerned about double action versus traditional single action. No big deal. Colt can be carried cocked and locked safely (these are series 80 guns) and the sig can be carried hammer down. First shot will usually be single action anyway - if I don't have enough time to thumb back the hammer, then I'm probably dead or hurt already!

What concerns me:
size (30%), trigger (40%), performance of the 380 out of each (20%) price (10%)

I
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:15:19 PM EDT
No question: The Sig will go BANG every time you pull the trigger-right from the box.

Sig's quality is just so hard to top....

HH
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:24:00 PM EDT
Sig
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 2:26:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:23:18 PM EDT
What are you carrying now, out of curiosity?

And what is "deep" carry...do I even want to know?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:29:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:30:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 3:30:58 PM EDT by iroc409]
i own a p232 sl (all stainless), and i love it. although i haven't shot it more than 7 yards (not really a long-range gun anyways), it's scary accurate. and, it sends the empty brass into the next zipcode. if i do my part, it will hit exactly where i want it to. totally did not expect that out of such a tiny gun, very consistent. has more recoil than expected though.

the blued model would probably be nicer from a carry standpoint, it's a little lighter than the stainless models. not sure i'd like the finger grooves myself, but i think the factory plastic ones fit me fine.

i have no experience with colt or kahr. hear good things about kahr. but, my 2 favorite mfr's are hk and sig, and i usually compete with a p226.

edited to add, i hear the sig is one of the few .380's that can eat "really hot" .380 (is there such a thing?). i've heard of a couple rounds that don't fair well in other .380's, but apparently the sig with eat it with a smile.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:46:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:51:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Why use hot .380 ammo when you can run +p 9mm through a Kahr? I can't stress enough Joe... KAHR. I qualified on it for my Nevada CCW, which includes a B2 at 25 yards. I popped everything in the 8 ring or tighter rapid fire... and I mean as fast as I could pull the trigger through TWO mags. Both mags with reload in about 10 seconds. For all to end up inside the 8 ring at 25 yards in that time frame = damn accurate gun for a small package.



+1 on the Kahr, take a look at the PM 9 or .40 for a great concealable handgun, I have the P9 and the quality, dependability and accuracy are top notch
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:51:39 PM EDT
I tried the Khar and it shot well, and it sure as SH*T is tiny, but I really do prefer single action capability. Plus the Khar is a true two finger gun, and it seems I can pull two and a half with the sig or colt. Two and a half fingers on a 380 seems better than two fingers on a 9mm.....
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:53:24 PM EDT
I recommend a Micro Uzi.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:53:52 PM EDT
The Sigs are great, utterly reliable. If you ever had to replace the pistol, you could get a new Sig.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:55:06 PM EDT
my personal carry gun is either a Taurus PT145 SS Mil Pro or HK P7M13.....
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:56:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 3:57:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
By two finger do you mean on the grip? I use the pinkie extension and have no problem with a full grip with my big hand. As for single action, no thanks, I'll take the striker design over it any day. I don't carry cocked and locked, especially deep concealment where pulling the gun from under clothes might snag a safety. I like as simple a firearm as possible. Insert mage, chanmber round, aim and pull trigger.



I hear you. I hear you. the Khar certainly is small.

Whats the price on one with night sights, and how much are mags? and 'full grip' mags?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:03:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:04:50 PM EDT
I like the black one. Get it.

AB
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:07:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 4:09:16 PM EDT by California_Kid]
I have the Sig P232 (blued) and like it a lot. It fits perfectly in a strategic pocket on my mountain bike luggage.

I did not like the factory grips - too slippery for me, so I replaced them with the Hogue aftermarket one (one piece IIRC). That made a huge difference.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:08:57 PM EDT
I have a like new Colt Mustang I'll sell ya for $450. 2 magazines, original box.. probably 300-500 rounds through it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:10:53 PM EDT
Neither. Get a Kahr. Similar price, size, and weight, better trigger, and twice as powerful.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:12:23 PM EDT
The Colt will conceal much better than the Sig. It weighs a lot less, too. I had a co-worker who had the Colt (ten years ago), and it did have some reliability problems, though. I'm not sure if that's common.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:15:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I have a like new Colt Mustang I'll sell ya for $450. 2 magazines, original box.. probably 300-500 rounds through it.



which version?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:15:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:18:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I have a like new Colt Mustang I'll sell ya for $450. 2 magazines, original box.. probably 300-500 rounds through it.



which version?



It's stainless... here it is:

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:30:36 PM EDT
I've got to ask how reliability has been....
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 4:58:14 PM EDT
I've only shot some R-P ball and Win Silvertips through it, and it likes those.

One of the magazines doesn't push the slide stop up very far, but one only has to tweak the follower to remedy that.

It's decently accurate at 7 yards, and recoil is light due to the locked breech design.

I'm only selling it because I picked up a snub nose .38 for carry.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 5:06:06 PM EDT by MMcCall]
S&W 340PD fo life, y0.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:15:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:18:15 PM EDT
I read a first hand account of a LEO working the scene of an old man who was attacked by and killed a larger, younger assailant with a single .38 spl. The round was a 130gr FMJ, and penetrated enough vitals to kill the thug.


And we all thought .38 spl was weak.


I bet the .380 would do similar.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 5:26:35 PM EDT by Tirador223]
Another vote for the Kahr. Not my favorite pistol, but I do own and carry one and feel confident in the caliber and I can actually hit something with it when I have to.

I like to think of it as my Seecamp's big brother, and the stainless is the only way to go in a Virginia summer.

Joe, I guess you've found out something about Virginia summers here lately, and that is what prompted the "deep carry" part of your question.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:29:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:32:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I have a like new Colt Mustang I'll sell ya for $450. 2 magazines, original box.. probably 300-500 rounds through it.



which version?



It's stainless... here it is:

www.frayadjacent.com/pics/coltmustang.jpg



Wow. That's a lot smaller than I'd have though the 1911 frame could be. I'd figured SIG, but your picture right there makes me wonder.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:33:03 PM EDT
Of teh two, the Sig. (have you considerd the P239?)

Also, have you considered the Kahr P9??

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:34:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mauser101:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I have a like new Colt Mustang I'll sell ya for $450. 2 magazines, original box.. probably 300-500 rounds through it.



which version?



It's stainless... here it is:

www.frayadjacent.com/pics/coltmustang.jpg



Wow. That's a lot smaller than I'd have though the 1911 frame could be. I'd figured SIG, but your picture right there makes me wonder.




It is amazingly small and thin. I am impressed with it, but need to sell it to finance the wheel gun, and it will also pay for my CHL class, so I can get off my ass and get it!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:36:56 PM EDT
I have heard too many reliability issue stories about the Colt .380s, and my Sig 230 has never failed, so I'll go with Sig on this one.

But seriously, have you considered the Kahr in 9mm?

More punch, just as concealable. I didn't read too far down, so I appologize if I am the 50th person to say that.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:41:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
I have heard too many reliability issue stories about the Colt .380s, and my Sig 230 has never failed, so I'll go with Sig on this one.

But seriously, have you considered the Kahr in 9mm?

More punch, just as concealable. I didn't read too far down, so I appologize if I am the 50th person to say that.



When Kahr can launch a 9mm from a platform the size of the Mustang, I'll be able to lick my own balls. :P
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:43:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
When Kahr can launch a 9mm from a platform the size of the Mustang, I'll be able to lick my own balls. :P



Kahr P9.

Pucker up.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:46:37 PM EDT
Of those 2, I'd opt for the Sig.

That said, the Kahr P40 I picked up a few weeks ago is terrific. The polymer frame makes it decently light and it shoots terrific.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
Of those 2, I'd opt for the Sig.

That said, the Kahr P40 I picked up a few weeks ago is terrific. The polymer frame makes it decently light and it shoots terrific.



I wish I had gotten teh P40.

How is recoil??

My P9 is so light, I forget I got it. Eight times now I went and punched out people I could have just shot (in self defense of course) if I hadn't forgot I was carryin'.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:57:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 5:58:10 PM EDT by vanilla_gorilla]

Extended mag base


Standard mag base

I have medium sized hands and thin fingers, so I can actually get a full grip with either one.

Garandman, with full-house self defense type 40cal loads, you definitely notice it's there. The polymer frame seems to have deep and sharp checkering on the back, which I really begin to notice after a box of ammo. I don't mind though, since it helps me keep a grip on the gun, even with sweaty hands.


Edit: sorry about size and quality of pics. I was in a hurry.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:58:46 PM EDT

And what is "deep" carry...do I even want to know

There's open carry, concealed carry then "deep carry"?
Maybe it's sacrificing the ability to draw fast for better concealment?
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:58:57 PM EDT
Nope, the Mustang is still smaller. Maybe not by much, but it is.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:03:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Nope, the Mustang is still smaller. Maybe not by much, but it is.



But the Kahr is 25oz unloaded, and keeps 6+1.

And I'll take 40S&W over .380 anyday!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:08:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Nope, the Mustang is still smaller. Maybe not by much, but it is.



But the Kahr is 25oz unloaded, and keeps 6+1.

And I'll take 40S&W over .380 anyday!



If you didn't notice, I picked up a 38 snub nose which will handle +p loads. I'm selling the Mustang because I want a little more oomph in my pocket :)
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:10:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Nope, the Mustang is still smaller. Maybe not by much, but it is.



But the Kahr is 25oz unloaded, and keeps 6+1.

And I'll take 40S&W over .380 anyday!



If you didn't notice, I picked up a 38 snub nose which will handle +p loads. I'm selling the Mustang because I want a little more oomph in my pocket :)



That's why I got the Kahr. I was toting a Taurus 85 .38 snub with +P Gold Dots, but I wanted something a little more substantial, and with a quicker reload. The Kahr is slightly larger, but much thinner, so it still conceals better.

Mrs gorilla has claimed the .38 now.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:15:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Juntau:

And what is "deep" carry...do I even want to know

There's open carry, concealed carry then "deep carry"?
Maybe it's sacrificing the ability to draw fast for better concealment?



deep carry is your if you cant carry a gun, gun. ie something small and hideable. like a pocket pistol since its to hot to carry your 1911 or whatever.

also could be a backup piece for when it really hits the fan ie your main gun goes down. but mostly atleast for me its the formor.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:17:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
of those i'd opt for the sig.



+1
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:18:57 PM EDT
Deep carry meaning - ??


as in "ankle gun"? Won't likely have time to deploy it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:19:58 PM EDT
I had the colt mustang + 2 and liked it.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:20:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:

Originally Posted By scotchymcdrinkerbean:
I have heard too many reliability issue stories about the Colt .380s, and my Sig 230 has never failed, so I'll go with Sig on this one.

But seriously, have you considered the Kahr in 9mm?

More punch, just as concealable. I didn't read too far down, so I appologize if I am the 50th person to say that.



When Kahr can launch a 9mm from a platform the size of the Mustang, I'll be able to lick my own balls. :P



Start Licking.

Kahr PM9: 5.3 inches long, 4.0 inches high, 0.9 inches thick. Empty weight: 14 oz.
Colt .380: 5.5 inchesl long, 3.9 inches tall, 1.0 inches thick. Empty weight: 14 oz.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:22:44 PM EDT
SIG 239 or a MAK.
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