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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:17:22 AM EDT
Just recently saw Saints and Soldiers which informed me of this event that I don't recall being aware of before.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:26:10 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:27:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Thought about a link after I posted but figured if they cared enough they could figure it out themselves  I would think the year should aid in figuring out what it might be about. I should know better. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:39:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Thought about a link after I posted but figured if they cared enough they could figure it out themselves I would think the year should aid in figuring out what it might be about. I should know better. Sometimes, though, posting a link is useful in helping get a message out to people.... 
In this case, I thought your intent was to educate folks on this horrific event. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:40:52 AM EDT
[#4]
You've never seen the classic movie "Battle of the Bulge"?
That's required viewing. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:47:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: You've never seen the classic movie "Battle of the Bulge"? That's required viewing. I am aware of the Bulge but don't believe I have seen that yet. I'll add it to my Netflix queue. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:50:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
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You've never seen the classic movie "Battle of the Bulge"? That's required viewing. I am aware of the Bulge but don't believe I have seen that yet. I'll add it to my Netflix queue. Thanks. Get the Bluray version if you have a PS3, it's worth watching |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:51:41 AM EDT
[#7]
A well known character actor, Charles Durning, was actually at the Malmedy Massacre and was one of the 20 US soldiers that escaped alive.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001164/bio "Was one of a few survivors to the infamous massacre of American POWs by German SS troops at Malmedy, Belgium, during World War II. The surrendering engineering battalion, captured behind enemy lines when the main American forces retreated, were gathered together and brought to a large field. As the German guards backed away from the prisoners, machine guns that were hidden in trucks opened fire on them. Approximately 88 US soldiers died, a good number of them by a single shot at close range through the head, indicating that those who survived the initial volley were subsequently executed. Only about 20 of the group of approximately 100 managed to escape the massacre and make their way to American lines." |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:53:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
You've never seen the classic movie "Battle of the Bulge"? That's required viewing. The one with M47 Patton's that looks like it was filmed in Spain instead of terrian resembling the Ardennes? Entertaining but not really accurate. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 7:56:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Saints and Soldiers is an incredible movie––-even moreso because it's more of an "indie" film. And one of the better WWII movies to come out in a long time, as it still had character development as part of the plot.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:14:49 AM EDT
[#10]
How can you not know about the Malmedy Massacre?
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:16:02 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:16:30 AM EDT
[#12]
This also happened on a smaller scale near the villages of Krinkelt and Rocorath (sp?) which was in the 99 Div area.
I don't have the details at my finger tips but my Grandfather was an Inf Officer in the 99 Div and we have a lot of books on the battle. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:18:42 AM EDT
[#13]
The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though....
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:41:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: How can you not know about the Malmedy Massacre? Because WWII history taught in schools is limited to it "Happened there, and there." An alternate answer is we went and saved Euro-Ass, not the other way around.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:47:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler My uncle (RIP) helped liberate Dachau. He was a war hero in both WWII and Korea and retired a Lt. Col. About Dachau, he told me that: "the men tore those camp guards to pieces. I could not have stopped them - even if I wanted to." I later discovered that most of the surrendering guards were carefully gathered together in large groups near a wall & 30 cal Brownings were then set up for the killing. Not defending them at all, though the event was hardly as spontaneous as I once thought. Never forget. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:02:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler True, but in both cases they were part of bad units. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:02:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler If I recall correctly most of the SS lined up and shot at Dachau were from a Waffen SS unit trying to escape the Russians. Most of the douchebag guards got away. Leave it to the Leibstardarte Hitler loving assholes to run away and leave a line unit to take the brunt of their atrocities. Can't say I blame the GI's for shooting all SS units, enough douchebags in the SS ranks ruined their chances of surrendering peaceably through massacring Allied troops in Malmedy fashion. All those Germans who volunteered for the SS deserved to swing by the neck, inhuman fucks!!!!! |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:03:27 AM EDT
[#19]
God doesn't anyone study History anymore.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:14:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
God doesn't anyone study History anymore. Its easier to teach about how bad the U.S. in in schools, and other countries history these days. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:19:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
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God doesn't anyone study History anymore. Its easier to teach about how bad the U.S. in in schools, and other countries history these days. Actually back in high school we spent more time learning about the Holocaust than the actual battles of WW2. Not too bad overall, but we spent a lot of time reading Nights, watching Schindler's List and doing reports on that. Even had to do a diary where we would assume the role of a german civilian who had to witness the persecution of the jews, Kristallnacht, etc. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:34:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler If I recall correctly most of the SS lined up and shot at Dachau were from a Waffen SS unit trying to escape the Russians. Most of the douchebag guards got away. Leave it to the Leibstardarte Hitler loving assholes to run away and leave a line unit to take the brunt of their atrocities.[/ Can't say I blame the GI's for shooting all SS units, enough douchebags in the SS ranks ruined their chances of surrendering peaceably through massacring Allied troops in Malmedy fashion. [b]All those Germans who volunteered for the SS deserved to swing by the neck, inhuman fucks!!!!! You should read some of the books listed as sources on the wiki page. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:45:21 AM EDT
[#23]
For those not familiar with the movie: http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi1652883737/ Great movie, filmed in Utah. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:45:25 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler If I recall correctly most of the SS lined up and shot at Dachau were from a Waffen SS unit trying to escape the Russians. Most of the douchebag guards got away. Leave it to the Leibstardarte Hitler loving assholes to run away and leave a line unit to take the brunt of their atrocities.[/ Can't say I blame the GI's for shooting all SS units, enough douchebags in the SS ranks ruined their chances of surrendering peaceably through massacring Allied troops in Malmedy fashion. [b]All those Germans who volunteered for the SS deserved to swing by the neck, inhuman fucks!!!!! You should read some of the books listed as sources on the wiki page. The SS isn't easy reading, what a mess trying to comprehend that evil organization with its multiple realignments and absorption of Waffen field units. You then have Hitler loving Volunteers also have Officers and Enlisted who were conscripted and NOT given much choice in the matter. The book Soldat had a piece where the author and other Soldiers were lined up and picked by SS or Wehrmacht branches. The SS had first dibs and refusal not to go wasn't an option. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 9:55:26 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Saints and Soldiers is an incredible movie––-even moreso because it's more of an "indie" film. And one of the better WWII movies to come out in a long time, as it still had character development as part of the plot. this is one of my top 5 war movies. i cant say enough good things about it. low budget, good actors, great scenery and awesome gear / equipment, alot of people DONATED time and equipment to make the movie. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:14:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler If I recall correctly most of the SS lined up and shot at Dachau were from a Waffen SS unit trying to escape the Russians. Most of the douchebag guards got away. Leave it to the Leibstardarte Hitler loving assholes to run away and leave a line unit to take the brunt of their atrocities.[/ Can't say I blame the GI's for shooting all SS units, enough douchebags in the SS ranks ruined their chances of surrendering peaceably through massacring Allied troops in Malmedy fashion. [b]All those Germans who volunteered for the SS deserved to swing by the neck, inhuman fucks!!!!! You should read some of the books listed as sources on the wiki page. The SS isn't easy reading, what a mess trying to comprehend that evil organization with its multiple realignments and absorption of Waffen field units. You then have Hitler loving Volunteers also have Officers and Enlisted who were conscripted and NOT given much choice in the matter. The book Soldat had a piece where the author and other Soldiers were lined up and picked by SS or Wehrmacht branches. The SS had first dibs and refusal not to go wasn't an option. It is not as much of a mess as it seems, you just need to find legitimate books on the subject and avoid the internet nonsense. The top three books on the SS, all written using primary research: The Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War, 1939-45 by George H. Stein The Black Corps: The Structure and Power Struggle of the Nazi SS by Robert Lewis Koehl Anatomy of the SS State by Hans Buchheim, Martin Broszat, Hans-Adolf Jacobsen, Elizabeth Helmut Krausnick |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:24:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler If I recall correctly most of the SS lined up and shot at Dachau were from a Waffen SS unit trying to escape the Russians. Most of the douchebag guards got away. Leave it to the Leibstardarte Hitler loving assholes to run away and leave a line unit to take the brunt of their atrocities.[/ Can't say I blame the GI's for shooting all SS units, enough douchebags in the SS ranks ruined their chances of surrendering peaceably through massacring Allied troops in Malmedy fashion. [b]All those Germans who volunteered for the SS deserved to swing by the neck, inhuman fucks!!!!! You should read some of the books listed as sources on the wiki page. The SS isn't easy reading, what a mess trying to comprehend that evil organization with its multiple realignments and absorption of Waffen field units. You then have Hitler loving Volunteers also have Officers and Enlisted who were conscripted and NOT given much choice in the matter. The book Soldat had a piece where the author and other Soldiers were lined up and picked by SS or Wehrmacht branches. The SS had first dibs and refusal not to go wasn't an option. It is not as much of a mess as it seems, you just need to find legitimate books on the subject and avoid the internet nonsense. The top three books on the SS, all written using primary research: The Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War, 1939-45 by George H. Stein The Black Corps: The Structure and Power Struggle of the Nazi SS by Robert Lewis Koehl Anatomy of the SS State by Hans Buchheim, Martin Broszat, Hans-Adolf Jacobsen, Elizabeth Helmut Krausnick Thanks, I'll look these up, it will save me a lot of time searching around for a good quality book not put out by a 88 or sympathizer. 
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:25:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Just recently saw Saints and Soldiers which informed me of this event that I don't recall being aware of before. You never heard of the Malmedy Massacre? |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:27:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Another good book is called "Panzer Aces".............has alot of stuff in it about the Battle of the Bulge and Waffen SS units, specifically armor units
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Posted: 12/17/2010 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just recently saw Saints and Soldiers which informed me of this event that I don't recall being aware of before. You never heard of the Malmedy Massacre? cut him some slack... the amount of events in WW2 is extensive... ive considered myself a WW2 fanatic since i was a child, and at 28 years old, im still learning something new every day, or every time i watch a documentary. its not like the OP didnt know about Pearl Harbor or something. and im not trying to minimize the Malmedy Massacre. what percentage of people do you think know that there were German U-boats sinking ships daily in the Gulf of Mexico? how many people know there was a Jap sub sunk before the attack at Pearl Harbor ? How many people know we brought German POW's to the U.S. camps? or that Japs were put into internment camps ? alot of this isnt taught in high school, college... or even spoken of for the most part. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:15:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
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Just recently saw Saints and Soldiers which informed me of this event that I don't recall being aware of before. You never heard of the Malmedy Massacre? cut him some slack... the amount of events in WW2 is extensive... ive considered myself a WW2 fanatic since i was a child, and at 28 years old, im still learning something new every day, or every time i watch a documentary. its not like the OP didnt know about Pearl Harbor or something. and im not trying to minimize the Malmedy Massacre. what percentage of people do you think know that there were German U-boats sinking ships daily in the Gulf of Mexico? how many people know there was a Jap sub sunk before the attack at Pearl Harbor ? How many people know we brought German POW's to the U.S. camps? or that Japs were put into internment camps ? alot of this isnt taught in high school, college... or even spoken of for the most part. I know all of that and yeah, most probably don't, but the Malmedy Massacre was a pretty significant event. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:22:19 PM EDT
[#32]
For those really interested read: A Time for Trumpets: The Untold Story of the Battle of the Bulge by Charles Brown MacDonald (Mar 19, 1997)
MacDonald not only wrote this book by aslo fought in the battle; one of the best. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
I know all of that and yeah, most probably don't, but the Malmedy Massacre was a pretty significant event. Yeah, cut them some slack. There is no time in High School to teach real history. They need to spend the valuable time teaching Black History, Diversity, Tolerance, and the like.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:48:37 PM EDT
[#34]
My Grandfather drove past that site, In late January, 1945, on his way to Germany.
I have his photos of the area. I'll see what I can find and post them. In fact, I'm pretty sure one of the pics is of a burned out Sturmgeschütz from Kampfgruppe Peiper. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:49:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Started by a shot fired by a man named 'Fleps'...he fired, then the rest of this squad/platoon opened up...
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:50:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Thou speakest the truth....though.Quoted:
The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler
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Posted: 12/17/2010 1:57:26 PM EDT
[#37]
I hope you don't mind but I will post a few photos
 Four Spearheaders were among the 84 murdered.  Above #40 is the body of Tec. 3 James McGee, and behind and to the right is #38, the body of Lt. Thomas McDermott. Also uncovered in the snow were the bodies of Lt. Lloyd Iames and Pfc. John Klukavy. All four men were with 32nd AR, Recon. and were part of group of American POW's that were slaughtered in a Belgian field by a German SS unit during the Battle of the Bulge.    |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:01:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
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The SS bastards got a little bit of payback during the liberation of Dachau. Not that I condone killing POWs though.... Thou the SS guards at Dachau got what they had coming......few if any would have had much to do with Malmedy. That would have been 1st SS LSSAH under Pieper. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_SS_Division_Leibstandarte_SS_Adolf_Hitler I recommend the book, "The devil's adjutant |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:06:11 PM EDT
[#39]
In other Dec 17th news... My first child was born this morning.
(Sorry to derail your thread but I had to after seeing the date in the title)
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:09:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: In other Dec 17th news... My first child was born this morning. (Sorry to derail your thread but I had to after seeing the date in the title)http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr170/neawalker/dcae70ad.jpg Red baby is red.... J/K Congrats |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:12:05 PM EDT
[#41]
My dad was one of the guys that ended up behind enemy lines during the BotB. Whenever the word 'Malmedy' was mentioned in a movie, WWII commentary, etc. he would start to choke up and just stop talking altogether. Never did find out why.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:12:47 PM EDT
[#42]
We got to visit Bastogne and the Malmedy site, years ago when I was serving in Germany
It was quite moving. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:17:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
In other Dec 17th news... My first child was born this morning. (Sorry to derail your thread but I had to after seeing the date in the title)
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr170/neawalker/dcae70ad.jpg Congratulations! Beautiful child! |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:21:04 PM EDT
[#44]
I once had the duty of denying an account application of a prospective member who chose the name "1SSLAH". Unfortunately for him, I knew my history, and that his cryptic name stood for !st SS Divisione, Liebstandart Adolf Hitler. That's the outfit that perpetrated the Malmedy Massacre. I denied it out of hand, of course, and sent him an e-mail with the reason why..
He e-mailed me back complaining why my name was "raf", the outfit that comitted bombing raids on Germany. I replied that I deliberately did not capitalize my name (actually my initials) so to avoid being confused with the Royal Air Force. No response. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:23:09 PM EDT
[#45]
My great uncle served in the Ardennes sector during the war, and he never really talked about his experiences to me, but my father told me a friend of his was killed in a mortar attack..........he also told stories about the intense cold and snow.
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:23:40 PM EDT
[#46]
My father in law was with the US 30th Division during the Bulge....payback was given
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:32:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
I once had the duty of denying an account application of a prospective member who chose the name "1SSLAH". Unfortunately for him, I knew my history, and that his cryptic name stood for !st SS Divisione, Liebstandart Adolf Hitler. That's the outfit that perpetrated the Malmedy Massacre. I denied it out of hand, of course, and sent him an e-mail with the reason why.. He e-mailed me back complaining why my name was "raf", the outfit that comitted bombing raids on Germany. I replied that I deliberately did not capitalize my name (actually my initials) so to avoid being confused with the Royal Air Force. No response. My FIL told me that he stayed away from the fires the guys would start at night. the guys near the fires warmed up, the snow melted, refroze and caused frost bite issues. he would just lay in the snow on a poncho under a blanket. They had no winter camo but would divvy up gear when they captured Germans. one guy would get a top,,,the other the pants... |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:36:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: My father in law was with the US 30th Division during the Bulge....payback was given Exactly. Both sides shot prisoners on occasion. It depended on the units and the circumstances. Perhaps the American shooting of prisoners wasn't as organized or sanctioned as perhaps the Malmedy Massacre, but, from what I've read, we shot as many prisoners as they did. Much worse on the Eastern Front and in the Pacific. |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:36:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In other Dec 17th news... My first child was born this morning. (Sorry to derail your thread but I had to after seeing the date in the title)
http://i480.photobucket.com/albums/rr170/neawalker/dcae70ad.jpg Red baby is red.... J/K Congrats Lol yeah that was pre bath. I snapped him up and said "quick take a picture!" |
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Posted: 12/17/2010 2:38:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
It is not as much of a mess as it seems, you just need to find legitimate books on the subject and avoid the internet nonsense. The top three books on the SS, all written using primary research: The Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War, 1939-45 by George H. Stein The Black Corps: The Structure and Power Struggle of the Nazi SS by Robert Lewis Koehl Anatomy of the SS State by Hans Buchheim, Martin Broszat, Hans-Adolf Jacobsen, Elizabeth Helmut Krausnick I enjoyed: Steel Inferno: I SS Panzer Corps In Normandy by Michael Reynolds and Sons of the Reich: The History of II Panzer Corps by Michael Reynolds Neither really discuss the political crap much, just the day to day warfare. Quite literally the day to day warfare, using the logbooks and such of the units involved in the various battles. |
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