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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/14/2004 6:40:11 AM EST
I’m curious if you guys have any further suggestions as to my situation. About 3 weeks ago I had to fire one of my maintenance employees because he tested positive for cocaine. He even knew we would be testing him in the near future so even the test shouldn’t have been much of a surprise. I had my office manager who has known him for longer than I have and is his direct supervisor give him the new we would be letting him go. When she fired him, he got upset and ranted and raved for a few minutes before leaving. During this rant, he told my office manager that he was going to “blow me away”. Although I take every threat seriously around here, I took his to be nothing more than a rant and when he calmed down it wouldn’t be an issue. However yesterday after hearing that he wouldn’t be receiving unemployment benefits, he called the office and again talked to my office manager. During that conversation he expressed how distraught he was and that he was considering just killing himself. However he told her that “before he went, I would go first”.

After the first threat, I mentioned it to the HPD officers that I see on a regular basis. Now that he has said it again, I have had them file a report on the issue. However, I’m being told there really isn’t anything they can do as far as pressing charges because it wasn’t said to me directly. I heard it all third party.

He still lives on property for the time being. He has been unable to pay his rent so we are filing eviction to remove him. However I’m still looking at 2+ weeks before he will have to move. I’m already pretty cautious about threats anyway. I’m always carrying my CHL with me. I’m planning on avoiding the area around his apartment until he is gone. I’m curious what other precautions or actions you guys would take if you were faced with this situation. Any suggestions would be appreciated as always.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:42:09 AM EST
Do you have family living with you?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:44:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Malpaso:
Do you have family living with you?



I live alone on the other side of Houston, roughly 25 miles from the complex.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:45:33 AM EST
Kill him?



No, seriously...every time he calls or even looks at you funny, call the cops and make a report. Then when you do finally have to smoke his ass, you have reams of paper showing what led up to it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:45:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 6:46:13 AM EST by macro]
Sounds like its time for a long vacation until this guy is on his way.
Stay armed and stay safe...good luck.

Wish I could give you better advice, but beyond looking over your shoulder, or leaving all together, there isnt a lot else that can be done until this guy actually tries something.

Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:49:47 AM EST
I would suggest hiring a couple extra security guards to keep an eye on your place, your car, and one to just follow him around. They don't make much over minimum wage so it shouldn't cost too much for a short term contract. Of course if your life isn't worth the $1,000 that it might cost to hire them for two weeks don't worry about. I'm sure all cocaine addicts who are fired, screwed on unemployment and are being evicted have a lot to live for and would never do anything irrational.

If you have staff in your office it's your duty to protect them as well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:52:33 AM EST

Slum -

I can't believe HPD didn't respond to this. I would have hooked this guy in a heartbeat.

I don't know Texas law, but in OR, he would have commited the crime of menacing, which is a Misdemeanor. I am sure that TX has an equivelant law. The basic elements are: by word or deed to put another person in fear of physical injury or death.

Look up the crime, contact the PD again, tell them that this person threated you. They should absolutely hook him up.

After that a restraining order should be no problem. I don't know if this means he would have to move out.

Legal options aside, stay armed and stay vigilent.

-Z



Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:54:06 AM EST
It sounds to me like you are taking the right steps so far. I would report ANY threats or statements that he makes to anyone, just in case you do have an altercation with him. At least then it would be documented that this has been going on, and you have been trying to do the right thing.
I would also make sure that I changed my "routine" a little. Park in different parking spots at work, use different entrances and exits, different routes home, just so you don't make it easy on him if he is actually going to do something. In my experience I have found that most people that say they are going to do something, are just talking. If he was actually planning to do something, I think that he would just do it and not say a word to anyone about it. Some folks may disagree with me, but those are just my thoughts. Good luck to you.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:54:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
I would suggest hiring a couple extra security guards to keep an eye on your place, your car, and one to just follow him around. They don't make much over minimum wage so it shouldn't cost too much for a short term contract. Of course if your life isn't worth the $1,000 that it might cost to hire them for two weeks don't worry about. I'm sure all cocaine addicts who are fired, screwed on unemployment and are being evicted have a lot to live for and would never do anything irrational.

If you have staff in your office it's your duty to protect them as well.



Yeah, I definately want to trust my life to a minimum wage security guard.......

Hell, I'd spend the grand on a good Kevlar vest and feel safer then if I had some rent-a-cop who's probably stoned anwyays wanderin around behind me and not running good security like he should be.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:54:42 AM EST
Maybe a ballistic vest?

If it was me, I'd go knock on his door and tell him to take his best shot or STFU. $50 syas he's all bluster. Just hope he's not jacked up at the time.

Seriously, the security guards sound reasonable to me. Just make usre you carry in such a manner as to be able to draw when seated. Ops
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:31:40 AM EST
Sounds like a real winner you've got on your hands there. From your "name" and the other posts I have read from you I am actually surprised that you havn't had to deal with this kind of thing sooner. In your chosen profession you should expect to have to deal with people who think like this asshat. His threats are probably idle ones but I wouldnt be willing to take that chance. If he is talking openly about murder/suicide something should be done about it before it gets out of hand. This is the problem we have in our society. Nobody does anything about threats like this until its too late. We play by the rules while those who wish us harm walk the fine line of the law until its too late to stop them. I would look into filing a restraining order against this guy. While he may not have threatened you directly, a sworn statement from the person (your office manager) that heard him say it should be enough to justify a restraining order. I dont know the details of the law on this issue but I would atleast TRY to get a restraining order. This guy didnt just threaten to kick your ass, he threatened to take your life. I would take that threat to heart and plan accordingly. Watch this guy like a hawk. Take extra precautions that are not normally necessary in your daily routine. Go out of your way to document the situation. Hopefully your Office Manager gave the HPD a signed statement as to what he said to her. Covering your ass is never a bad idea. If you ever have to use lethal force to protect yourself from this guy it will show a DA or a jury (if it were to go that far) that you tried to avoid any confrontation with him and tried to defuse the situation in a lawful manner. Good luck, watch six, be safe. - Nugz
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:42:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Crimson_Trace:
Slum -

I can't believe HPD didn't respond to this. I would have hooked this guy in a heartbeat.

I don't know Texas law, but in OR, he would have commited the crime of menacing, which is a Misdemeanor. I am sure that TX has an equivelant law. The basic elements are: by word or deed to put another person in fear of physical injury or death.

Look up the crime, contact the PD again, tell them that this person threated you. They should absolutely hook him up.

After that a restraining order should be no problem. I don't know if this means he would have to move out.

Legal options aside, stay armed and stay vigilent.

-Z



I'll be looking into the TX equivilant thanks, that should fit.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:44:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ops:
Maybe a ballistic vest?

If it was me, I'd go knock on his door and tell him to take his best shot or STFU. $50 syas he's all bluster. Just hope he's not jacked up at the time.

Seriously, the security guards sound reasonable to me. Just make usre you carry in such a manner as to be able to draw when seated. Ops



He probably is all hot air, but there is not way in hell I'll be knocking on his door. The odds are pretty good he would be in an altered state. The vest idea is an interesting one, but I don't think I'll take that step quite yet.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:45:43 AM EST
In Texas, any citizen can appear before a Grand Jury and ask for charges to be brought against another person. I served for 6 months on a GJ and found it to be one of the most informational experiences of my life. You go before the GJ and present your info. To get an indictment, you only have to convince a supermajority of the GJ.

We indicted a guy for making a terroristic threat. He had already been to prison twice, including a stint for murder. I wonder if he is still alive?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:46:24 AM EST
I'd go with the bullet resistant vest option.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:47:33 AM EST
Got kevlar?

I think you should be "walking heavy" for awhile.

Watch your 6 and good luck!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:47:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nugz:
Sounds like a real winner you've got on your hands there. From your "name" and the other posts I have read from you I am actually surprised that you havn't had to deal with this kind of thing sooner. In your chosen profession you should expect to have to deal with people who think like this asshat. His threats are probably idle ones but I wouldnt be willing to take that chance. If he is talking openly about murder/suicide something should be done about it before it gets out of hand. This is the problem we have in our society. Nobody does anything about threats like this until its too late. We play by the rules while those who wish us harm walk the fine line of the law until its too late to stop them. I would look into filing a restraining order against this guy. While he may not have threatened you directly, a sworn statement from the person (your office manager) that heard him say it should be enough to justify a restraining order. I dont know the details of the law on this issue but I would atleast TRY to get a restraining order. This guy didnt just threaten to kick your ass, he threatened to take your life. I would take that threat to heart and plan accordingly. Watch this guy like a hawk. Take extra precautions that are not normally necessary in your daily routine. Go out of your way to document the situation. Hopefully your Office Manager gave the HPD a signed statement as to what he said to her. Covering your ass is never a bad idea. If you ever have to use lethal force to protect yourself from this guy it will show a DA or a jury (if it were to go that far) that you tried to avoid any confrontation with him and tried to defuse the situation in a lawful manner. Good luck, watch six, be safe. - Nugz



This is not the first time this has happened, just the first time I actually felt like it was nothing other than hot air. Not to mention this guys has worked for me for a long time, he knows my general routines around the complex. Those routines have now changed. The signed statement from my office manager is a good idea, I'll definately get that done.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, any others are appreciated as well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:50:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:52:57 AM EST
well what ever you do don't let the "usual suspects" at the complex see that you are changing your plans or they will all start trying to intimidate you.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:55:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By Ops:
Maybe a ballistic vest?

If it was me, I'd go knock on his door and tell him to take his best shot or STFU. $50 syas he's all bluster. Just hope he's not jacked up at the time.

Seriously, the security guards sound reasonable to me. Just make usre you carry in such a manner as to be able to draw when seated. Ops



That's a really bad idea for several reasons, but I'd still be sorely tempted.

Slum, sounds like you're doing a good job of getting out ahead of this whole thing. A restraining order might help the paper trail a bit if something does happen, but i know some who say restraining orders just fuel the fire. I think you're probably doing what can be done with notifying the PD, jacking up your situational awareness, etc.

What you ought'a do though, with all these different problems you have, is start renting to arfcom members. You'd have your own posse!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:59:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By Ops:
Maybe a ballistic vest?

If it was me, I'd go knock on his door and tell him to take his best shot or STFU. $50 syas he's all bluster. Just hope he's not jacked up at the time.

Seriously, the security guards sound reasonable to me. Just make usre you carry in such a manner as to be able to draw when seated. Ops



That's a really bad idea for several reasons, but I'd still be sorely tempted.

Slum, sounds like you're doing a good job of getting out ahead of this whole thing. A restraining order might help the paper trail a bit if something does happen, but i know some who say restraining orders just fuel the fire. I think you're probably doing what can be done with notifying the PD, jacking up your situational awareness, etc.

What you ought'a do though, with all these different problems you have, is start renting to arfcom members. You'd have your own posse!



I already have my own Posse, they're called the Houston Crew!! Fortunately or unfortunately none of them want to come live down here.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 7:59:37 AM EST
Workplace violence is a serious issue. Talk to a detective now. Ask if they have a workplace violence specialist/detective you can speak to for further information. Now that a report is filed it shouldn't be to much to ask.

Good luck and do what you have to to protect yourself.

NorCal
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:02:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
well what ever you do don't let the "usual suspects" at the complex see that you are changing your plans or they will all start trying to intimidate you.



Nothing I've changed is really visible. I usually would check the A/C system first thing in the morning, now I wait until later in the day. I lock doors behind me when I walk into empty units or into the shop. That type of thing, some things I've always done, just now I'm just certain I do it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:05:41 AM EST
go kick his sorry ass
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:08:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Slumlord:

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By Ops:
Maybe a ballistic vest?

If it was me, I'd go knock on his door and tell him to take his best shot or STFU. $50 syas he's all bluster. Just hope he's not jacked up at the time.

Seriously, the security guards sound reasonable to me. Just make usre you carry in such a manner as to be able to draw when seated. Ops



That's a really bad idea for several reasons, but I'd still be sorely tempted.

Slum, sounds like you're doing a good job of getting out ahead of this whole thing. A restraining order might help the paper trail a bit if something does happen, but i know some who say restraining orders just fuel the fire. I think you're probably doing what can be done with notifying the PD, jacking up your situational awareness, etc.

What you ought'a do though, with all these different problems you have, is start renting to arfcom members. You'd have your own posse!



I already have my own Posse, they're called the Houston Crew!! Fortunately or unfortunately none of them want to come live down here.



yea. and it sounds like you don't want or need a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:13:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
yea. and it sounds like you don't want or need a permanent solution to a temporary problem.



Not to mention my preference would be that I spend no more time in court over this than just filing eviction.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 8:52:36 AM EST
Preemptive strike?
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:28:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Preemptive strike?



Unless you mean legally, I shouldn't even dignify this with a response.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 10:23:53 AM EST
We got your back BeYatch!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 11:36:51 AM EST
I need extra money dude! Hire me as your personal bodgyguard...oh and give me some of your new internet chicks!
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 1:44:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By jadams951:
I need extra money dude! Hire me as your personal bodgyguard...oh and give me some of your new internet chicks!



Your not cheap enough and I'm still finding the good ones. I have plenty of numbers if you want to try the rejects, or just the ones that rejected me.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 5:17:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By Slumlord:

Originally Posted By jadams951:
I need extra money dude! Hire me as your personal bodgyguard...oh and give me some of your new internet chicks!



Your not cheap enough and I'm still finding the good ones. I have plenty of numbers if you want to try the rejects, or just the ones that rejected me.



I had one reject me this week...damn and I'm sick too.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:18:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
I would suggest hiring a couple extra security guards to keep an eye on your place, your car, and one to just follow him around. They don't make much over minimum wage so it shouldn't cost too much for a short term contract.




I make plenty over minimum wage, thank you.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:25:15 PM EST
Graphically discuss how you want to violate his mother in the most sexaully disgusting manner you can think of. I he doesn't leave you alone after that, he'll probably attack and therefore you can be prepared to defend youself.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:30:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By Slumlord:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Preemptive strike?



Unless you mean legally, I shouldn't even dignify this with a response.



Acidents with fire happen, maybe he was so high on coke that he forgot that the burner was on cooking his top ramen? Just kidding, stay safe and take the high road. watch your back.

P.S. Austin is not that far away, just a "day trip". If you really feel in danger, send us the signal.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 9:40:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2004 10:07:58 PM EST by Misery]
Clearly some of you know how cocaine affects people? If this guys uses coke he might try something, and by this I mean serious shit. That's one drug where homicide, suicide, and fear in general doesn't just take a back seat. I'd really be concerned, and don't for a minute think it's BS tough talk. He probably thought he'd pass the test, but it stays in your system for a pretty long time. I'd try talking to the police again and watch your six!
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 12:03:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Misery:
Clearly some of you know how cocaine affects people? If this guys uses coke he might try something, and by this I mean serious shit. That's one drug where homicide, suicide, and fear in general doesn't just take a back seat. I'd really be concerned, and don't for a minute think it's BS tough talk. He probably thought he'd pass the test, but it stays in your system for a pretty long time. I'd try talking to the police again and watch your six!



Actually coke is gotten rid of pretty fast, it's water soluble and usually undetectable with the standard piss test within a week (folicle test is another matter). Now if he had prior warning he was to be tested soon and he still came up dirty he is a serious user.

I don't want to further alarm you, but he's without money for coke now and the withdrawal symptoms include big time depression. Now he's without a job, money and a place to live. Serious depression may give him a good case of "Life sucks, Fuck it".

Just curious, was he a good employee. Were it not for this failed test would you have been considering firing him?
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 5:01:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Hoppy:
Actually coke is gotten rid of pretty fast, it's water soluble and usually undetectable with the standard piss test within a week (folicle test is another matter). Now if he had prior warning he was to be tested soon and he still came up dirty he is a serious user.

I don't want to further alarm you, but he's without money for coke now and the withdrawal symptoms include big time depression. Now he's without a job, money and a place to live. Serious depression may give him a good case of "Life sucks, Fuck it".
Just curious, was he a good employee. Were it not for this failed test would you have been considering firing him?



This is what scares me. I deal with tough talkers all day long, but its the guys with nothing to lose that scare me. He knew a few days out we would be testing him, he just didn't know which day it would be. Small offices stink at keeping things quiet. As for whether he would have been fired without the positive result, he was close to that anyway. A positive drug test was just a clean way to end it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:37:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Kill him?



No, seriously...every time he calls or even looks at you funny, call the cops and make a report. Then when you do finally have to smoke his ass, you have reams of paper showing what led up to it.




I agree whith QuietShootr,

One of my friends who I played football with in college was in exactly the same situation a few months ago. Guy was causing problems, they tried to give him multiple chances but he kept failing. Well on the day of his last interview he got mad and left. He came back a few minutes later and started shooting.

As Kent (my friend) ran back in the building to help a secretary who had fallen down he was shot in the back of the head and killed, leaving several children and a young wife...

so take Quiet's advice. If he even looks at you weird, file a report. And make sure you are carrying, these things tend to spiral out of control and end badly.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 7:51:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Kill him?



No, seriously...every time he calls or even looks at you funny, call the cops and make a report. Then when you do finally have to smoke his ass, you have reams of paper showing what led up to it.




I agree whith QuietShootr,

One of my friends who I played football with in college was in exactly the same situation a few months ago. Guy was causing problems, they tried to give him multiple chances but he kept failing. Well on the day of his last interview he got mad and left. He came back a few minutes later and started shooting.

As Kent (my friend) ran back in the building to help a secretary who had fallen down he was shot in the back of the head and killed, leaving several children and a young wife...

so take Quiet's advice. If he even looks at you weird, file a report. And make sure you are carrying, these things tend to spiral out of control and end badly.



Thanks for the advice, I've already taken it. I haven't seen him in a couple days, but that doesn't mean I won't see him in the next 5 minutes. And yes, I am always carrying.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:05:08 AM EST
Have your employee file the "death threat" with the police.
Restraining order.
Carry.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:11:45 AM EST
No job, no place to stay, no money.
A man with nothing to lose is one of the worst kind of men to deal with.

I like the vest idea. You should be able to write it off as a legit expense.

To bad the cops just couldnt pay him a vist and let him know he is on the radar for threatening.
Do you have anyone who still speaks with him ? If so maybe they could let it slip that a report of his threats has been made to the cops and you are aware of them.

Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:11:48 AM EST
... I'd second the recommendation to do a restraining order. If for no other reason, he can quickly be nabbed should anything transpire (doubtful and remote I believe).

... Make damned certain the positive drug test results are mentioned too. That way there's formal documentation of his drug abuse history.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 8:23:30 AM EST


I would Say TRY IT PUKE
Let’s See You RUN 2300FPS…..





Link Posted: 9/15/2004 9:23:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By u-baddog:
No job, no place to stay, no money.
A man with nothing to lose is one of the worst kind of men to deal with.



Don't forget "coke addict" .....

Restraining orders are a good idea in THEORY, but the way MOST LEO's "handle" them leave MUCH to be desired, (at least IME and with regard to stories I've heard from reliable sources....) of course MOST instances I'm aware of are with regard to former boyfriend harassing/stalking/threatening ex-giirlfriend sorts of situations, PERHAPS that's what makes them most "useless" and it may be different w/former boss/employee situation. But in the situations _I_ mentioned, the restraining order was "attention", and therefore DID escalate the situation in all but one instance.

If it were ME, I'd take the "kill `em w/kindness" route. With him being a cokehead, it might not work... but it's hard to seriously consider killing someone who's being nice to you. However it's EASY to conmsider it when someone's being a "superior prick" (in HIS mind, I'm sure.... I mean it was HARDLY HIS fault he was fired, right? It's NEVER the addict's fault ;) Still, I don't KNOW what types of discresion you have.... but I'd kill him w/kindness. As thats LIKELY the easiest and safest route.... but you know him better than I, and if it MIGHT or might NOT be received well... Just a thought. YMMV.


Link Posted: 9/15/2004 9:59:03 AM EST
Coke is passe` these days. He's probably using it in the form of crack. Much more dangerous and results in far more irrational behavior.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:14:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By TacticalMan:
Coke is passe` these days. He's probably using it in the form of crack. Much more dangerous and results in far more irrational behavior.



Correct, the test results just show it as a positive for cocaine.
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:17:10 AM EST
Do not listen to the folks who say to confront the individual. You'll put yourself in legal liability if the event goes south. I would not waist my money on private security. Any that are any good cost far more then a 1000 bucks.
I'd have the cops do the eviction, carry my weapon and be aware of my surroundings. A vest would be nice, but I doubt it would help you very much.
The PD would not give you a restraining order? That way you could have him arrested for violating it in any sort of stalking attempts.
Remember, even a justified shoot will cost you a lot of money, heartache and time that this scumbag isn't worth.
People who tell you what they're going to do are usually full of shit. What makes this individual dangerous is he's going to be crashing.
-Steve
Link Posted: 9/15/2004 10:32:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By stevenb:
Do not listen to the folks who say to confront the individual. You'll put yourself in legal liability if the event goes south. I would not waist my money on private security. Any that are any good cost far more then a 1000 bucks.
I'd have the cops do the eviction, carry my weapon and be aware of my surroundings. A vest would be nice, but I doubt it would help you very much.
The PD would not give you a restraining order? That way you could have him arrested for violating it in any sort of stalking attempts.
Remember, even a justified shoot will cost you a lot of money, heartache and time that this scumbag isn't worth.
People who tell you what they're going to do are usually full of shit. What makes this individual dangerous is he's going to be crashing.
-Steve



Thanks...........I have no intention of confronting this guy. As I mentioned before, I have to deal with a lot of heavy talkers all the time. I can't let it be seen around the complex that I am intimidated by this. If that becomes public knowledge around here, I know I will only see more of this type of situation. That is not to say, I will be going along like nothing is happening. I have taken some of the extra precautions I have mentioned and others have suggested as well. Not only do I not want to be injured, I don't want to put in the situation of being forced to hurt him either. Not only would this become a legal nightmare, but I would have to deal with knowing I killed this guy who I have known personally for the last couple years. I don't want the mind screw, nor the legal bills of any of it. I just want it to be settled.
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