My wife and I are having problems. She's hardly spoken to me in two days, which in and of itself may not be considered a bad thing, except that it comes on the tail of over a year of stress and strife.

We've had money problems, intimacy problems, and differences concerning career choices and child rearing. She's a great mom to our two little ones (2 and 3), but she can be a PITA sometimes.

As for me, I'm far from perfect, but I've never laid a hand on her, I've worked hard, never strayed, and always wanted the best for my family.

I'm terrified she may be considering a divorce, not only because I love her but also because my kids adore us both and I don't want to give them a broken home.

Can anyone recommend a marriage counseling service in Miami, or a national organization that may have affiliates here? I want the counselor to be of the type for whom divorce is the absolute final option, and who will be frank and direct with us BOTH.

I'm at my wits end. I've even had evil thoughts about doing something to myself, but my children need me, so I can't do that.

If you don't know the answer to my question, then I ask for prayers. You and the Lord are all I have left.

God, Help me!

Since you have mentioned God, have you tried your pastor?

Amen

Perhaps instead of , or in addition to counseling you should consider getting away and spending some time alone together away from kids , jobs , stress , etc... a short vacation , or even just a night out can really make a difference or at least get the ball rolling.....


That being said , good luck man , this stuff is never easy.....



t

Good grief, Zaphod!  I'm sure sorry to hear all of this.

Of course I will pray for you and your family.  I don't live in your area and can't help you with your question, but I imagine if you contacted your church the pastor would have the names of marriage counselors available.

In the mean time, don't give up on your marriage or do any harm to yourself.  Tell your wife you love her and try to listen to her concerns.

Ask God for help.  He will hear and help.

"Call upon me in the day of trouble:  I will deliver thee, and thou shall glorify me."  Psalm 50:15

I am praying for you.  IM me if you need to talk to someone.
Don

Immediately make a "date" when the two of you can get together for dinner without the kids.  Go there and talk!  Tell her what she means to you, what your family means to you, and how you are feeling about the way things have been.

I second the talk to the pastor suggestion as well, but get together and talk first!

Prayin for ya
Scott

[lol]

Sorry for laughing, but WHAT pastor?

I've been a life-long Catholic, but never go to church. I thought I had found the Lord a few months ago, but either He left me or I left Him (the latter, I'm sure. I'm also sure I'm being carried right now, but it sure doesn't feel that way...).

Point is, I don't even know what fucking church to go to....




I suppose, but I'd have to get her to speak to me first. I'll certainly consider it, though...

The only real trouble with a "getaway" is the problems are waiting for you when you get back.

Have you tried sitting her down to see what's bothering her?  If you have and she's refused, tell her how much this is bothering you and how worried you are about HER, and you can't see her go on like this and you'll do what it takes to help her through whats bothering her.

I'm sorry to bring this up as well, but have there been any tell tell signs of her straying?  I mean, women do it all the time nomatter how well we think we know them.  They'll love you just the same but the guilt from it ruins the relationship just the same as them telling you about it.  Most likely this isn't the case, but I always like to cover my bases, and if you do suspect it maybe a little, don't lead on to it.  Just incase she's not you don't want her thinking your thinking that...

How old are you two?(sorry, not being nosey but it helps determine what might be the problem.)

Just ask her. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I'm not familiar with the area of Miami, but I am with the area of prayer.  Got your 6, Bro.

Virtually every marriage has its rough spots.  The key is in agreement between the spouses.  Agreement in commitment for it to work, agreement to cooperate, and agreement on a common foundation.  The common foundation is the most important in my book.  My wife and I have built our relationship on the Rock of the Christian faith and it has us trying to put the needs of the other first.  In other words, our marriage is not a 50/50 proposition.  If you're giving 50% you're holding the rest back.  Rather, it's 100/100 (Well, that's the goal and I'll admit we generally fall short of it).  The point there is that if each person is giving, neither has to worry about what they're getting because it will be there.  I'm no expert, but I can say that this has worked for us.

I hope these words give you some encouragement.  

One thing I've realized over the past year (after she gave me the "shape up or I'm out of here" speach) is how much baggage I've carried from my childhood. I'm exactly like my father, who I swore I'd never be like. When my mother died something inside me died and I've never been the same since.

I've become dour, obsessed with money (being up to your eyeballs in debt will do that to you), and extremely critical of myself (my resume reads like an entry in Who's Who. I'm no friggin slouch hick uneducated dirtbag) for allowing myself to have dropped this far. I've expected my 3 year old to snap-to like a seaman recruit. If there's a dark cloud within a light year of a silver lining, I can assure you I'll find it.

....the pathetic thing is that I've gotten better over the past year, though she doesn't think so. She says I improve after she bitches me out then a month later slide back into the rut again.

I can't change her without changing myself. Unfortunately I've done a pretty shitty job of that, so the cycle continues.

You need to be talking to her in a no-shit atmosphere.  Somethings bugging her and you need to air it out or it will eat you and your marriage alive.

Go in with ears and mind open to what she might have to say and leave your ego home.  Sometimes our very dedication to providing the best for our families is our biggest problem, we spend so much time working that we don't have enough time for each other.  

If you spend a lot of time online while at home, PULL the PLUG.  The old Internet Addiction kills relationships like slow poison. If you need to waste time, waste it in a family building activity.

Take date nights with your wife, you are married, not buried. You need to give yourselves some time to fall in love again.

Get a relative to take the kids for a couple of nights and take a long weekend alone together.  Make time for that sort of stuff.

Avoid the B.S. anti-marriage attitudes that flow like sewer scum on macho Internet boards.  Marriage isn't about barefoot, pregnant and "it's my fucking money so shut up about it," attitudes.  A marriage is a partnership, and like it or not, your wife has a say in what you spend the money on, especially when money is tight.  Money issues can really aggravate things.

Most importantly though, you've got to open up the lines of communication or your marriage will be dead.  

I wish I could tell you where to go. Is just randomly picking a church and visiting the pastor out of the question? Usually they have literature or phone numbers on their roladexes that are quick to hand out. Would the fact that you are making an attempt to save the marriage by doing this be appreciated by your wife?

I am definitely not a saint or a bible thumper, hell not even really that smart. I rarely go to church, but I do pray every time I need help. I feel it helps even if I am only listening to myself. I will defenitely pray for you and your family.

I concur with the recommendation for communication.  If you guys aren't talking about the problem it just continues to fester.  Instead of "Would you like to talk?", I'd say you should arrange some quiet, uninterrupted time (No kids, unplug the phone) and say, "We need to talk."  Be open to what she has to say and don't go on the defensive if she says something critical.  The first thing is to get it out in the open.  Then you can deal with it.

Still praying...

I know what's bothering her, the problem is that I've been unable to fix it, and she hasn't been supportive because she said she was trying alone for too long (I didn't know about it back then.). Bringing it up will simply be a repeat of endless previous conversations that ended up in fights. Neither one of us takes criticism very well, I'm afraid...



No indications whatsoever. Unfortunately, I've been sufficiently shielded my whole life that I probably wouldn't notice them if there were. Still, I highly doubt it.



I'm 35, she's 37. Daughters are 2 and 3.

You can't change her and she can't change you. That's the first thing that you both must acknowledge.

Your search for a counselor is a good step. Find one and go- alone at first if you must. If you don't like the first one, find another.

And let her know that you want things to work out and will do what you can- but that it will not happen overnight and it isn't a one-way street.

Flowers are usually a good start.

No matter what, they always like to receive flowers.

Wish I had more time to help. Will keep you (and 50% of the guys on this board who seem to be in your shoes) in my prayers.

--LS

Recognizing the baggage from the past is the first step in getting rid of it.  I have a brother who is almost 40 and makes excuses for how none of his problems are his fault, it's because of our parents splitting up, our Dad being gone, etc.  You're far ahead of him on getting a grip on the situation.

A thought (Do with it what you think best) could be to ask her to help you putting your past behind and building a future together.  Be a team.  

That's what I'm looking for. Someone who will read us BOTH the riot act and smack us back into line. A Dr. Laura type...  



Actually, I spend a lot of time online at work, but never at home. However, I DO stay late often enough to surf along with you guys.



I was told to do that by a cousin whose marriage collapsed. Never listened. "What does SHE know?" was the attitude. Apparently more than I do.

We never dated after we got married. Too busy working, or worrying about money, or dealing with the kids.



Shouldn't be too much trouble. My in-laws take care of the kids during the day anyway.



You ain't kiddin'. All I want is to restructure the debt so we can BREATH, and even that she's having some trouble with.



I hate arguing. She goes nuts trying to understand how I'll engage with rightous ferocity anyone who challenges my political views, but will not engage her. I grew up in a home where Mom and Dad argued TIRELESSLY and ENDLESSLY. It scarred me for life. Some might say I've become quite the pussy. They'd likely be right.

I would start with sending her flowers with a Pablo Neruda poem.  Maybe one of his "100 Love Sonnets" that he wrote for his wife.  That might get the ice to thaw a bit.  Then invite her out for dinner, but DO NOT place any expectations on the event.  Make it as low key as possible.  Treat it like a first date, like  you're getting to know her again for the first time (if that makes any sense).

Just my 2 cents.  Flowers always seem to break the glass a woman can put up.

Hang in there man. Leave her a note or smething letting her know you love her and want to get conceling. NOT A LETTER. Just a note. For the record I just shitcanned a 10 year relationship so my advice ain't worth squat.

Go to Church and get with God! And be serious about it.  Does she pray, is she religous?  The family that prays together, stays together.  Seriously.  "God works for the good of those who love him."

Also, live for each other.  If you both live for the other 100%, then you can't go wrong.  The problem arises when one or the other doesn't give 100%.  Then it gets out of balance.  The wife and I don;t succeed 100%, but we really try.

Best advice I can give.  Hope all works out well for you.

I know a guy in Hialeah, goes by the name "Frankie the Fixer"... if he could be of any assistance.  [BD]


Seriously bro, sorry to hear that and hope y'all get it worked out.

Good Luck

Roger THAT!

Send her some flowers with a note that says "Just want you to know I'm thinking about you and I love you."

Now, you mentioned that you both know what the problem is and every time you try to talk about it, you end up fighting.

So...if I may ask, what's the problem?

I still say you should take her out alone to talk, and when you do, make sure you are doing more listening then talking.  When you want to say something, hold back, think about what you are going to say, and whether it will be helpful or hurtful.  Then revise, and speak.  Be honest, but not too blunt that it hurts.  Look for new ways to attack the problem.

If you'd like to IM me with more detail, I may be able to help you out, or if you just want to put it out in the open here, fine.

One thing about your relationship to God and your wife, and the differences in opinion you both have re: career choices/child rearing etc.:
Your spirituality will inform your worldview.  If the two of you are not observing the same (or at least very similar) religion, there will always be those differences and they are difficult to overcome.   (plug for church) Try contacting a congregation of the Lutheran Church-Missourri Synod.  It's not a PC church driven by culture.  If you need suggestions, I can help ya there too.(/plug for church)

hope this helps.
Scott

You should be able to find a counselor within the Catholic church to whom divorce is a last resort.  The Jesuits and Franciscan priesthoods are more likely to have degrees in psychology and counseling.  

Money problems are often the tipping point in relationships.  For women they create security issues and often marriage was meant to mean "security" to them.  I'm guessing you married later than the average so you and her were more set in your ways.  

It's just a guess on my part but it seems partners subtly subvert a marriage if it isn't living up to their expectations.  Unfortunately the expectations are sort of an unwritten thing that neither side has yet acknowledged or clarified for the other and sometimes those expectations are at bottom vain and selfish.....hence a Therapist is able to help you negotiate the more important issues if they still remain and separate perception from reality.

Working on getting you some names in the Miami area as soon as my wife comes back from my kid's school party.
Hang in there...

DD

Zaphod,

You've described my situation to a tee.  Only I've got different religions and her parents living 6 blocks away to deal with.   (They came out from NJ when we got pregnant so they could help with my daughter... and promptly shit all over our marriage). That last issue has killed my marriage.  Your wife clams up and doesn't communicate with you, but mine drives to her mom's house and reverts to the emotional maturity of a 15 year old.  Like your situation, I saw it coming for a long time; and, like your situation, my dark and dour attitude -- and skeletons from events past -- have contributed to the problems.

I'm filing for divorce this week or next.  After finally getting her to talk about things, I realized that she's wanted to leave for about a year now, but she hasn't have the strength to be the one to do it  (and was just as happy to keep having 1/2 of my pension accruing to her benefit).  So, its on me.  For my part, I took a long time to decide what to do because I love my daughter very much and do not want to lose her or deprive her of a "family..."  But, frankly, my opinion is that kids pick up on this kind of strife and its better for them to be able to avoid that situation than to have a "family" where there is all this tension just below the surface.

I too have had silly thoughts.  Its a defense mechanism in part, and a profound weakness too.  But screw that man.  This too shall pass!   It sounds like you're doing a lot more to try and make things work than I was able to.  It also sounds like you became aware of what happened a lot earlier.  But no matter what happens, stay strong... because your kids need that, and any other result is letting selfishness hurt the ones you love most.  If you ever need to talk, IM me and I'll be on the phone in a heartbeat.  

Every marriage has it's rough spots. You at least seem to care enough not to throw in the towel. Men are fixers, we become aware of a problem, and do our best to find a solution. women don't care about a solution, they just ant to discuss it, and want to feel that you're listening to them. Get away for a few hours, ALONE. No kids, no bills, no job, and no in laws. Whatever she perceives as being the problem (s), were not created overnight, and won't be solved overnight. take one step at a time. work as a team. whatever caused you to get married in the first place, and have two children, may still be there somewhere buried under life's problems. Good luck!!!

Guys,

I want to thank everyone who has responded either here or IM. I'd like to respond to many of the questions asked since my last post, but I've got to run home and take care of the [baby][baby]. The wife is going to her cousin's HS graduation tonight, and the LAST thing I want to be is late.

I will log on again tonight or tomorrow and answer your questions, and continue to read your advice and encouragement.

Thanks again and God bless. You guys are the greatest!

Talk to her, tell her what you told us. Communication is the key to any relationship. Women want to be listened to and feel like they are the center of our universe.

But you really shouldn't be taking relationship advice from me, I've been divorced twice!

Gonzo- Your in-laws sound like they could be on Everybody Loves Raymond.  My wife's parents and mine stay out of our business.  I guess I'm blessed there.

Zaphod- Another one of my principles: Just because you're married is no reason to stop dating.

I really hope it works out.  You sound determined to do whatever it takes.

Zaphod,

I am saddened to hear of your current troubles and I am sorry I do not have a magic bullet solution for you.

I am your age, married to an older woman, our kids (hers from a previous marriage) are out of the house, but I can certainly remember how it goes.

The bottom line question to ask yourself, then ask her (depending on your answer) is, "Do I WANT to be married to my wife/husband?" A little hint, the answer should ALWAYS be yes, but sometimes selfishness intrudes and the answer gets messed up. Forget all of the other issues when answering this question, deal only with this one question. Answer it yourself, then ask your wife to answer it as long as your answer was 'yes'. This is gut-check time but we hope she will say yes and we assume that you will so we now have two people interested in being married to each other.

If you have made it to this point with both saying 'yes', then move on to the next step of identifying the problems in the marriage. These problems are not fodder for discussion and neither one of you is wrong or right because if you do not fix the problems, your marriage is going to collapse. The key here is to REALLY fix the problems but if the problem is a key character issue that cannot be fixed without changing your core values, then you should not have married each other in the first place! That is intentionally harsh as simple truths often are.

I am here for you if you need anything at all. I mean it, anything and anytime.

Matt - 505-821-6723

I'm back.

Well, it turns out that we were BOTH going to that graduation! Went OK. Things are marginally better at home. She actually looked at me and smiled last night. Boy that felt good.

Part of the problem is that none of this is new. Last April she asked me to separate for a while, a request that came in completely from the blue. I knew we'd been having problems, but I had no idea she had gone that far. She had even contacted her cousin, a family lawyer.

I refused to leave, saying that we would either remain as a family or not be one at all, none of this middle-of-the-road crap. I bought Dr. Phil's book "Relationship Rescue" on the advice of a good friend (Who's also my boss) who had gone through something similar not too long ago. Believe it or not, that book is awesome.

At any rate, I tried to change, and I definitely have changed in many areas, and as you can imagine, I have a ways to go. Some of the things that Mrs. Zaphod (i.e. - Trillian) bitches the most about is how a) when she talks, I either don't listen or soon forget what she says, b) when we agree on something, I soon forget or decide to do something else, c) when I decide to do something, I rarely carry through with it to the end in the manner a man would, and d) I'm "too rough" with the children.

Examples? Well, a) is easy. I really don't understand it. I can remember things from 20 years ago with unbelievable clarity, but ask me what she said yesterday and I draw a complete blank. Pisses her off to no end. Can I blame her? NO.

b) We are looking at refinancing the house to pay off the debts (we are fortunate to be in a VERY good situation in that area). I offered Plan A, she countered with Plan B, and I agreed to it despite the fact that Plan B costs $500 more per month than Plan A (family issues - don't ask). Well, I begin the process, and when I calculate the $500 difference, I begin to ask around for Plan A and let her know. You can imagine the (justified) response. This is what triggered this last round of trouble for us.

c) I decided to re-tile the house and rebuild both bathrooms........over a year ago. Well, one bathroom is done, the tile is done (by someone we hired), and I'm still working on bathroom #2. I work slow, and it always costs more and is more of a pain than you expected. You can imagine her frustration at having the house a ess for that long! Word of advice: STAY AWAY FROM HGTV! Bob Vila and Norm Abram have a tool YOU DON'T HAVE: EDITING! My days of playing This Old House are OVER after I finish this...

Finally, d) The kids. I was raised by a very strict father and a mom who was no slouch, either. I was always a good boy. Hell, I didn't even rebel in High School! However, I went to 4 years of Catholic, all-boys, military boarding school between 5th and 8th grades, two years of JROTC in HS, then straight into the Navy. My upbrining was, therefore, predominantly military. My sister and I both turned out QUITE well, thank you.

So, I expect a certain level of discipline in the house. Granted, a year ago I was uncosciously expecting my then-2-year-ol to snap-to like a plebe. I've mellowed out some since then, but it pisses me off (and depletes the little patience I have almost immediately) when I tell my little one NO and she does it anyway. I get ticked, the wife gets ticked at ME saying "She's only 3 for Christ's sake!". Spanking? HA! I've done it twice and all hell broke lose.

This isn't to say that my wife lets them run roughshod, either. She just has a different take on it. IMO, it is the classic male-female dichotomy. We simply do things differently. She doesn't seem to be willing to see that, accept it, or recognize that there are benefits to receiving BOTH as a child.

So, there it is.

I've received several e-mails and IM's from guys offering their help, and I want to say here in public that I don't have the words to thank you for your support. At first I was scared to post such personal information here, but I knew that this was the response I'd get, so I decided the hell with it. Thanks also to all those who have posted their support. I will eagerly read every single post made here, so if you still have ideas and suggestions, I'll be listening.

God bless....

Thinking of you and Praying for you as well.

Best Wishes...

MM419

Parents have to be in agreement regarding the kids, also.  For example, if my wife tells them "No", I won't tell them "Yes", even if I disagree with my wife's decision.  I may take her to a private place and discuss it away from the kids, but in the end our daughters can expect consistency out of us.

On spanking, there is a huge difference between a swat to focus their attention and abuse.  I recommend Dr. James Dobson's book "Dare To Discipline."  My philosophy is that spanking was not meant as punishment, as in "You crossed the line and now you're going to pay for it."  Morally, that's like whipping a slave.  The goal is to correct inappropriate behavior.  

To me, age is not an excuse for ignoring disobedience or rebellion in kids.  Parents need to establish and maintain control, but your response has to be commensurate to the age & understanding of the child.  

There is 6 years difference between my two daughters.  When the elder one was 12 I expected a higher level of performance from her than from her 6 year old little sister.  She complained about it not being fair, but I told her to pay attention as time went by.  As little sister got older the bar was raised for her, too.  

One thing I've learned is that there is no such thing as a perfect parent.  We make mistakes and learn as we go.  There are things I've done differently with No. 2 because of mistakes I made with No. 1.  Likewise, I lightened up in some areas with No. 1 to correct previous errors in my judgment.  We just do the best we can.

Keep your eyes on the goal.

Prayers sent.

Sorry to hear about your situation Zaphod.  My wife and I had some serious problems only a year into our marriage.  We both were to blame for the situation.  I hope that we have resolved the causes of the problems, as I never want to go through that hell again.  Its very sad to see so many guys on here going through these tough times.  I'll keep you in my prayers and wish you good luck on your efforts.  Hang in there!

Get off this board and get some therapy from a Marriage Counselor now. Both of you go, if she won't, go by yourself.

It'll be a lot better than the mish-mash advice you are getting here. Do it now if not sooner.

So this is why you never come to IDPA! [;)]

All kidding aside, you've gotten some great advice, and their is not much I can add.
I agree wholeheartedly that you amd Mrs.Zaphod
need to pick one of our MANY Catholic churches and go talk to the Priest. Our local Archdiocese puts on great Marriage Retreats. If the two of you [b]WANT[/b] things two work out, going to a retreat will give both of you some great tools to start putting things back in order.


echo6  

I intend to go first regardless of her opinion. I was going to go last year, and actually did see someone at work for a bit (we have a program), but never followed up. See Issue C above).



Actually, I've found the help and encouragement here quite comforting. I may pay a visit to my local church this very afternoon.

[lol] Yep. No money for ammo, no time because of the kids!

Prayers!

I wish you and your wife good luck and you'll be in my prayers. One thing for sure is you both have to communicate. Sometimes it's things we don't like to hear, and it hurts, but as long as the other person didn't say it out of spite , but to point out to you what they want fixed. All mariages have their rocky spots and you wonder whether you'll be able to ride out the storm, but if you both really love each other you will. I've been married 20 years, and we always back each other up as far as our son goes and for discipline. I always vowed I would not be like my parents, and I can say for the most part I'm not, but I am the stricter one. I always tell my son and husband that I love them. We have always maintained that we are not to go to bed mad. That we will always talk things out and try to fix things together. Try to get some alone time just the 2 of you so you can talk without interruptions or the kids. I have never been one for flowers or jewelry, but a nice evening out always works. Make time for just the two of you often,little kids zap alot of you're energy. Make one night a week time for just you guys, even if it means staying home, and having grandma or grandpa babysit. Some of the others hear have given you good advise too. Good luck and you'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

Prayer sent. Good luck with your situation.