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Posted: 6/18/2014 2:46:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 2:47:12 PM EDT by BSWilson]
So my old man went and had himself a stroke late last year at 64 year's old. His left side's entirely paralyzed, there's no family in the state and he requires full time care. I've been assigned his POA, so I'm looking at his incoming/outgoing finances trying to figure out how to make things last as long as possible.

I'm essentially playing a game called "Keep dad out of a rest home", but it's going to end eventually. Here's the score so far:

Assets
$70k Savings
$109k Stock
$170k House (paid off)
$10k Vehicles

Liabilities
$13k Credit Card Debt (out of $37k available)
$6k Medical Bills

Incoming
$2200 SSI/Retirement

Outgoing
$4700/mo Live-In Caretaker ($7hr/24/7)
$1400/mo Bills (Utilities, Phone, Internet, TV)

If nothing changes at the current burn rate (~$4k/mo), I'm estimating ~3.5 years before running out of resources, maybe 4. Then it's down to the house.

Possible Moves:

Relocate Family
Relocate Dad
Apply for SSI Disability
Reverse Mortgage (later)
????

I'm looking into scaling back expenses like the home phone and TV service while transferring the credit card debt to a 0% for 15/month offer to put that on hold a while. Beyond that, all I can think of is to uproot my family cross-country and move in, scaling the caretaker back to part time and picking up the slack myself. I'm not opposed to it, but it's a hard sell to the wife. I understand he's not eligible for Medicaid (or is it medicare?) until he's completely broke, and he was denied VA benefits on account of making $1k too much (possible grounds for appeal?).

Help me hive, how would you play this? Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:50:01 PM EDT
Can you bring him to where YOU live? Sell his house for more money.








Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:50:32 PM EDT
Instead of uprooting your family, why not uproot Dad & sell the house?

It's gonna have to go anyway, sooner or later.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:51:21 PM EDT
I feel for you and I hope for the best. My mom has Alzheimer's and no assets. I ended up having to sue her to get guardianship as the POA only goes so far, I would suggest you look into a guardianship as it may make it easier on managing the finances, especially if there are other siblings or interested parties. I would also look into a care facility as they will be less expensive than what you are paying now. My mom is in a memory care facility and a private room (Florida) and it sets us back $3100 a month. As her guardian, I'm struggling through a host of issues, including IRS collection. Look after your Dad and make sure his taxes are current and stay current. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:52:01 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dbmers:
Can you bring him to where YOU live? Sell his house for more money.
View Quote


That's an option I've been considering. He built the house he's in with his own hands, so it carries with it more value than most houses, but in the face of certain inevitability it's definitely an option.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:53:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 2:54:35 PM EDT by BSWilson]
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Originally Posted By Defender3:
I feel for you and I hope for the best. My mom has Alzheimer's and no assets. I ended up having to sue her to get guardianship as the POA only goes so far, I would suggest you look into a guardianship as it may make it easier on managing the finances, especially if there are other siblings or interested parties. I would also look into a care facility as they will be less expensive than what you are paying now. My mom is in a memory care facility and a private room (Florida) and it sets us back $3100 a month. As her guardian, I'm struggling through a host of issues, including IRS collection. Look after your Dad and make sure his taxes are current and stay current. Good luck.
View Quote


I recently learned about the differences between a guardianship (medical) and a conservatorship (financial).

I have insufficient credit to qualify for a conservatorship bond, which is required to be a conservator. POA's pretty much the only option, but I appreciate the suggestion. Sorry about your mom.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:54:26 PM EDT
You will need to do some research but a few glaring items...

Pay off the credit card bills immediately rather than transfer to another.

Contact Social Security right away. The differential between his regular SSI and Disability SSI may only be slight but it will take time to implement.

Be certain to include all family members in what you are doing since at some point a court will probably be requiring you to notify them.

See if your family would be willing to get a elder care lawyer involved. The services they can provide will save big bucks on taxes when other things start to occur...

Good luck! & God speed...
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:57:41 PM EDT
A little info incase your unaware, nursing homes will take his entire SS plus Medicare and Medicaid one of them, I'm not sure which one, will be available to him if he has less than 2,000 in the bank, one house and one car. They can go as far back as five years to see if he got rid of anything to qualify, if they determine he has they penalize you by not giving you the benefits and making you pay for them. Your looking at 4 to 6,000 dollars a month. The sad thing is he'll be treated like your paying 600 a month.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 2:59:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 4:48:37 PM EDT by BSWilson]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wpage:
You will need to do some research but a few glaring items...

Pay off the credit card bills immediately rather than transfer to another.

Contact Social Security right away. The differential between his regular SSI and Disability SSI may only be slight but it will take time to implement.

Be certain to include all family members in what you are doing since at some point a court will probably be requiring you to notify them.

See if your family would be willing to get a elder care lawyer involved. The services they can provide will save big bucks on taxes when other things start to occur...

Good luck! & God speed...
View Quote


Thanks for the tips.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:08:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
A little info incase your unaware, nursing homes will take his entire SS plus Medicare and Medicaid one of them, I'm not sure which one, will be available to him if he has less than 2,000 in the bank, one house and one car. They can go as far back as five years to see if he got rid of anything to qualify, if they determine he has they penalize you by not giving you the benefits and making you pay for them. Your looking at 4 to 6,000 dollars a month. The sad thing is he'll be treated like your paying 600 a month.
View Quote


Who do you talk to about navigating these kinds of rules to take fullest advantage? All I've heard is that once you're in this spiral, there's not a lot you can do to try and preserve anything, and if you do, they'll just penalize you for it later.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:10:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
A little info incase your unaware, nursing homes will take his entire SS plus Medicare and Medicaid one of them, I'm not sure which one, will be available to him if he has less than 2,000 in the bank, one house and one car. They can go as far back as five years to see if he got rid of anything to qualify, if they determine he has they penalize you by not giving you the benefits and making you pay for them. Your looking at 4 to 6,000 dollars a month. The sad thing is he'll be treated like your paying 600 a month.
View Quote



This. I work for a private ambulance company and we deal with nearly all nursing homes in our area. Out of 15+ that we deal with I can only say one has staffing that seems to actually care. The ignorance of nursing home nurses is astounding and terrifying.


Keep him out of a nursing home at all costs.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:11:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 3:14:51 PM EDT by Defender3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BSWilson:


I recently learned about the differences between a guardianship (medical) and a conservatorship (financial).

I have insufficient credit to qualify for a conservatorship bond, which is required to be a conservator. POA's pretty much the only option, but I appreciate the suggestion. Sorry about your mom.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BSWilson:
Originally Posted By Defender3:
I feel for you and I hope for the best. My mom has Alzheimer's and no assets. I ended up having to sue her to get guardianship as the POA only goes so far, I would suggest you look into a guardianship as it may make it easier on managing the finances, especially if there are other siblings or interested parties. I would also look into a care facility as they will be less expensive than what you are paying now. My mom is in a memory care facility and a private room (Florida) and it sets us back $3100 a month. As her guardian, I'm struggling through a host of issues, including IRS collection. Look after your Dad and make sure his taxes are current and stay current. Good luck.


I recently learned about the differences between a guardianship (medical) and a conservatorship (financial).

I have insufficient credit to qualify for a conservatorship bond, which is required to be a conservator. POA's pretty much the only option, but I appreciate the suggestion. Sorry about your mom.


You may want to consult an elder care attorney in the state where your dad resides. I had to go that route as mom is in FL and our CT POA was not accepted by the FL. The attorney can guide you through the pitfalls and advise on a guardianship, and represent you in the proceedings (about $1500). In my case, the guardianship included me being the conservator and I did not have to post any bonds.

ETA - Another reason for an attorney and a guardianship is to insulate you and your assets from any liabilities your dad may incur.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:12:41 PM EDT
My heart goes out to you and yours, prayers inbound.

That said, I accepted the position of Executor of my fathers estate.

I had no idea how a very small estate could divide brothers.

The original trustee has passed away, and according to my Dad's wishes, I appointed his wife as the trustee.

This has involved the court and a lot of additional expense and time, I am now being accused of utilizing the estate for my advantage.

Again, my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family,

Be aware of what you say and of what you agree to.

Family can be a royal pain in the behind.

Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:13:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2014 3:20:44 AM EDT by Defender3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
A little info incase your unaware, nursing homes will take his entire SS plus Medicare and Medicaid one of them, I'm not sure which one, will be available to him if he has less than 2,000 in the bank, one house and one car. They can go as far back as five years to see if he got rid of anything to qualify, if they determine he has they penalize you by not giving you the benefits and making you pay for them. Your looking at 4 to 6,000 dollars a month. The sad thing is he'll be treated like your paying 600 a month.
View Quote


I'm going to add that this will only occur if the dad is indigent. The state will take the proceeds from SS to offset the costs of care. These type facilities are truly where people are warehoused and receive minimal care. Your dad has assets and can afford his care.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:17:27 PM EDT
Dad moves to where the money is. If your making money and you will need to help care for him dad moves to you. If you can make money any where then it could go either way. I have discussed this with my mom and its already a done deal. When she can no longer care for her self i have room here in my home for her. No way i let our family pay out the ass to take shitty care of my loved ones. Ill do it.

Good luck to you man. You have a long hard road ahead.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:43:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By delemorte:
Dad moves to where the money is. If your making money and you will need to help care for him dad moves to you. If you can make money any where then it could go either way. I have discussed this with my mom and its already a done deal. When she can no longer care for her self i have room here in my home for her. No way i let our family pay out the ass to take shitty care of my loved ones. Ill do it.

Good luck to you man. You have a long hard road ahead.
View Quote


This is the right way to do it in most circumstances. However, personal care issues can make it tough to care for an elderly person in your home. Not impossible, but difficult. My wife had to take over all financial and personal matters for her mother 7 years ago. We sold everything and moved her from Lafayette, La to live near us in western Pa. We tried putting her in her own home, but she needed to be in assisted living (dementia, etc). She's paying about $3000 per month for assisted living. We're very lucky, she has a pension and an incredible long-term health care policy with no termination, cost of living adjustments, etc. Her pension is going in the bank, the policy covers almost everything else. I strongly advise you to make it as easy as possible on your family, which means he moves, not you. We're not at the nursing home point yet, we really hope she'll pass in assisted living (very obese, had cancer, lots of other stuff not good).

My MIL fought us on this, we had to take her to court to get guardianship (that's a whole story on it's own, can share if anyone wants to hear the gory details.) That cost the estate about $20K. We set up a revocable trust for all her assets because there is an indigent/addict brother who will have to get help from the trust down the road. We also had to "fix" her Will, she had really stupid stuff in it. The siblings are all sacks of shit, and we expect litigation with them down the road over the estate assets (ie, why isn't there more, what have you been doing with it, etc). We have to file an annual report with the court outlining all income and expenses, which will help with any lawsuit....
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:48:12 PM EDT
Just a word of note, do not forget to 1099 the caretakers if you are paying them personally and not through an agency. In fact if the company isn't a corporation you are supposed to 1099 them.

God bless, my wife's grandmother had the same and my wife's mother took care of her every weekend for 10 years and paid a full-time caretaker during the week.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 3:53:55 PM EDT
If I were in your exact position, I would hire a lawyer.
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:04:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 4:05:15 PM EDT by mattellis2]
I'm not sure where he is, but $1400/month seems like a lot for single guy that is basically a shut in with no mortgage. Where is that going?
Link Posted: 6/18/2014 4:42:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2014 4:42:41 PM EDT by BSWilson]
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Originally Posted By Bigshot64:
If I were in your exact position, I would hire a lawyer.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigshot64:
If I were in your exact position, I would hire a lawyer.


I'm with you, but for what exactly?




Originally Posted By mattellis2:
I'm not sure where he is, but $1400/month seems like a lot for single guy that is basically a shut in with no mortgage. Where is that going?


$250 Credit Card Payments
$130 Utilities
$350 Electric Bill
$85 Internet/Home Phone
$80 Cell Phone
$140 Satellite TV
$180 Insurance
-------
$1215, plus miscellaneous expenses (Prescriptions, Supplies, etc)
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