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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:03:40 AM EDT
A question for any police officers on the site regarding procedures for DUI checkpoints.

The Story: I was out to Dinner with the wife and some friends. Had a couple of beers over several hours. On the way home, I see a sign that warns of a checkpoint ahead. I only had a couple of beers, but these stops remind me of Gestapo tactics and are an infringement of your rights under the 4th amendment, so I made a right hand turn and found myself face to face with a patrol car on the same small street. He eyeballs me as I am going by. I get up to the next street, I see him backing up, next thing you know his lights are on and he is pulling me over. He comes to the window, asks for my papers, and i ask him what i did. He said my plate light was out. He asks me if I knew there was a checkpoint up the road, I tell him no. I should of told him yes but didn't. He asks if I was drinking. I told him I had a couple etc. He goes back to his car and comes back with a breathalyzer. He tells me and get this...I want to see if you are safe to drive home, not if you are drunk so I can lock your ass up. I tell him I don't know if I want t blow into it. he says if you do not, I'll make you walk the line etc. Didn't feel like doing that so I said i'm game. Well I blow into it and I rolled a ".030"...way below the limit. He then writes me a warning. The plate light was out.

A little long winded, but the question is. They have to allow you a turnround or an "out" so you don't have to run the gauntlet, but are the cops allowed to wait at that relief point? It seems to me that they would not be and it would fall into some kind of entrapment scenario.

Any one in the know have any clarifications?

Thanks ....Rick

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:08:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:12:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:12:38 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:12:14 AM EDT
Every DUI checkpoint that I have seen has police stationed on the "escape" avenues once you see it or the signs. They do that because basicly the only folks that will turn and avoid it are the exact same people they are looking for for. Seems like common sense to me.

Enough people die on the road every year due to drunk drivers (who statistically are repetitive drunk drivers) that something has to be done to curb the deaths. The police I have encountered have been professional and my delay was minimal. I'm not nuts about such checkpoints but I suppose its the price we pay for the many idiots that drink and drive and couldn't care less about the safety of others.

CWO
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:22:06 AM EDT
You have every right in the world to refuse field sobriety tests and the PBT (breathalyzer on the street) is NOT admissable during trial. No one can "make you walk the line" or blow into the PBT or any other such thing, including HGN/VGN.

Your license WILL be suspended for a longer period of time ONLY if you are convicted...which can be rather difficult if the officer has no field sobriety tests or breathalyzer results from the station.

In my experience, only two kinds of people refuse FSTs...those that have been through the system and those that know thier rights. Kind of like decling an officer's invitation to search your car. If I have to ask, I don't have probable cause. Of course, just because I am asking doesn't mean I don't already have probable cause.

99% of the time on a DUI stop I know the minute I make contact with the driver whether or not it's going to be a good DUI. The rest is just going through the motions. By the time I am done with HGN, I am 100% certain. I rarely use a PBT and I rarely lose a DUI case. The ones that I lose are where FSTs are refused and the suspect has a VERY good DUI attorney.


Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:35:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 4:50:07 AM EDT by Retched_Rick]
Sheep....Thanks for the enlightening information. I told him that I had a couple at dinner. Is that his probable cause?

If I refused, could he have arrested me and taken the test at the station?

I was not swerving or driving erratically he said he pulled me over for a burnt out light bulb.


CW...This is an erosion of your rights under the constitution. Using that theory, banning guns would also be acceptable to you because they would be banned for the public good.

I am not flaming you...that is just how I see it.

Now i have to go to the station tonight and show them i fixed the bulb. He told me it would be $120 if i didn't fix it in 5 days.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:43:51 AM EDT
I thought refusing a field sobriety test would land you in all kinds of hot water that was basically equivalent to getting a DUI.

At the very least, your license would be suspended, and your insurance rates would shoot up, I thought.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:47:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:50:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
I thought refusing a field sobriety test would land you in all kinds of hot water that was basically equivalent to getting a DUI.

At the very least, your license would be suspended, and your insurance rates would shoot up, I thought.



+1 That's what I've read here before time and again. News to me.

License plate light??? Why would there need to be a light unless someone isn't driving with their lights on?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 4:56:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:
Sheep....Thanks for the enlightening information. I told him that I had a couple at dinner. Is that his probable cause?

In and of itself, no.

If I refused, could he have arrested me and taken the test at the station?

Yes. But his PC would be VERY THIN and he'd better be a skilled DUI guy and VERY detailed in his narrative report as to why he hooked you, along the lines of:

Strong odor of alcoholic beverage or alcoholic liquor emanating from the suspect's breath

Glassy, red and bloodshot eyes

Slurred speech

Impaired fine motor control

Presence of clearly observable Nystagmus despite lack of HGN in the field

Swayed while standing

Stumbled while walking

Impaired decision-making - handed me his Visa card and a pic of his wife in naughty underwear when I asked for his DL and proof of insurance

etc etc etc


I was not swerving or driving erratically he said he pulled me over for a burnt out light bulb

Was it infact burnt out? If not, that's a bullshit stop. ETA: What you consider to be normal, safe driving is to me an all day invitation to stop you based on exceedingly minor traffic violations....i.e. failure to signal before turning - 250 ft - residential / failure to signal before turning - 500 ft - rural, failing to signal/yield when exiting a private drive, failure to make a COMPLETE and TOTAL stop (of all fwd movmt) at a sign/signal etc etc etc.

Sheep



Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:06:35 AM EDT
Sheep....Again thanks for the info.

I said to my wife on the way home "I bet you he made the light story up because we dodged the checkpoint", lo and behold, it was burned out....
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:22:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:
A question for any police officers on the site regarding procedures for DUI checkpoints.

The Story: I was out to Dinner with the wife and some friends. Had a couple of beers over several hours. On the way home, I see a sign that warns of a checkpoint ahead. I only had a couple of beers, but these stops remind me of Gestapo tactics and are an infringement of your rights under the 4th amendment, so I made a right hand turn and found myself face to face with a patrol car on the same small street. He eyeballs me as I am going by. I get up to the next street, I see him backing up, next thing you know his lights are on and he is pulling me over. He comes to the window, asks for my papers, and i ask him what i did. He said my plate light was out. He asks me if I knew there was a checkpoint up the road, I tell him no. I should of told him yes but didn't. He asks if I was drinking. I told him I had a couple etc. He goes back to his car and comes back with a breathalyzer. He tells me and get this...I want to see if you are safe to drive home, not if you are drunk so I can lock your ass up. I tell him I don't know if I want t blow into it. he says if you do not, I'll make you walk the line etc. Didn't feel like doing that so I said i'm game. Well I blow into it and I rolled a ".030"...way below the limit. He then writes me a warning. The plate light was out.

A little long winded, but the question is. They have to allow you a turnround or an "out" so you don't have to run the gauntlet, but are the cops allowed to wait at that relief point? It seems to me that they would not be and it would fall into some kind of entrapment scenario.

Any one in the know have any clarifications?

Thanks ....Rick




.

STFU. Stop whining, you turned around and got stopped. thats the whole reason they put those turn arounds at the check point. So when they see people turning around, they can say, amybe he's the type we're looking for.

You such a whiny little baby. Get over it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:25:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:


.

STFU. Stop whining, you turned around and got stopped. thats the whole reason they put those turn arounds at the check point. So when they see people turning around, they can say, amybe he's the type we're looking for.

You such a whiny little baby. Get over it.



Oh you're a genius.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:27:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CWO:
Enough people die on the road every year due to drunk drivers (who statistically are repetitive drunk drivers) that something has to be done to curb the deaths.



This argument is very hard to make. You can say, for example, that "1/3 of all traffic deaths are caused by legally drunk drivers" (pulling that number out of my butt), but what you don't know is whether that's because 1/3 of all drivers on the road are drunk (probably a pretty close guess in my area).

It's like saying that most highway fatalities are caused by speeders. That's an obvious and empty statement, because most people go at least slightly over the speed limit.

I'm not saying DUI is a good idea , I'm just saying it's too easy to start making statements like the antis: "100% of all bullet wounds last year were related to firearms!!!".
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:27:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
Your license WILL be suspended for a longer period of time ONLY if you are convicted...which can be rather difficult if the officer has no field sobriety tests or breathalyzer results from the station.



In the two states I've lived in (Texas and Illinois) if you refuse a breathalyzer, you lose your license for 6 months, whether you are convicted or not. In Illinois I had a friend who beat a DUI, but was shocked when he was pulled over weeks later and arrested for driving on a suspended license...
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:29:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SemperParatusEmt:

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:
A question for any police officers on the site regarding procedures for DUI checkpoints.

The Story: I was out to Dinner with the wife and some friends. Had a couple of beers over several hours. On the way home, I see a sign that warns of a checkpoint ahead. I only had a couple of beers, but these stops remind me of Gestapo tactics and are an infringement of your rights under the 4th amendment, so I made a right hand turn and found myself face to face with a patrol car on the same small street. He eyeballs me as I am going by. I get up to the next street, I see him backing up, next thing you know his lights are on and he is pulling me over. He comes to the window, asks for my papers, and i ask him what i did. He said my plate light was out. He asks me if I knew there was a checkpoint up the road, I tell him no. I should of told him yes but didn't. He asks if I was drinking. I told him I had a couple etc. He goes back to his car and comes back with a breathalyzer. He tells me and get this...I want to see if you are safe to drive home, not if you are drunk so I can lock your ass up. I tell him I don't know if I want t blow into it. he says if you do not, I'll make you walk the line etc. Didn't feel like doing that so I said i'm game. Well I blow into it and I rolled a ".030"...way below the limit. He then writes me a warning. The plate light was out.

A little long winded, but the question is. They have to allow you a turnround or an "out" so you don't have to run the gauntlet, but are the cops allowed to wait at that relief point? It seems to me that they would not be and it would fall into some kind of entrapment scenario.

Any one in the know have any clarifications?

Thanks ....Rick




.

STFU. Stop whining, you turned around and got stopped. thats the whole reason they put those turn arounds at the check point. So when they see people turning around, they can say, amybe he's the type we're looking for.

You such a whiny little baby. Get over it.



Yeah you pansy, quit whining about the death of our Republic!
Who needs liberty anway - safety is much more important.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:33:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:


If I refused, could he have arrested me and taken the test at the station?



Re-quoted 'cause I forgot to answer this. No one can force you to take a breathalyzer at the station, piss in a cup or give a blood sample. No one, unless your lawyer hands you a court-order from a judge, which isn't going to happen during the initial arrest.

Caveat Emptor: If you REFUSE to take FSTs and the Breath/blood/whizz test at the station AFTER you have been arrested and you are later CONVICTED.....that's when you get hammered with the manditory summary suspension. Some states vary on this, and the manditory summary suspension takes effect at the PC hearing if the arrest is found to be lawful. Without FSTs and/or biological data, a competent DUI attorney should sail through this, unless again of course, he's up against a cop who knows DUI backwards and forwards.

Just about the ONLY time that a biological sample (blood/breath/urine) can be taken from you by force is if the DUI is associated with a fatal/serious injury accident. Even then, it can be quite difficult to do since about 99% of ER staff have no idea as to what the law actually says, and even if you stand there and read it to them out of the statutes, they still look at you like you are the Gestapo. I have had docs and nurses flat out refuse to do it, resulting in a huge pissing match between the PD and hospital.

If it's that bad, odds are you as the intox. driver are probably going to the ER via EMS anyhow and we will just subpeona your records at a later date and ammend the charges.


Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:35:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
License plate light??? Why would there need to be a light unless someone isn't driving with their lights on?



Your vehicle equipment must be operational. The light is there so the plate may be read at night.If its not working, thats a violation of the vehicle and traffic law.Hence the stop.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:39:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 5:43:26 AM EDT by SheepDog_556]

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

In the two states I've lived in (Texas and Illinois) if you refuse a breathalyzer, you lose your license for 6 months, whether you are convicted or not. In Illinois I had a friend who beat a DUI, but was shocked when he was pulled over weeks later and arrested for driving on a suspended license...



I can still recite the Illinois Warning to Motorist in my sleep, and unless it has changed recently, you have to be convicted of DUI.

Your friend's attorney dropped the ball on the summary suspension.


Half-assed snipped version of Illinois Warning to Motorist (still looking for the "official version") -

From: Illinois DUI Laws

If you are arrested for Driving Under the Influence (alcohol, drugs or combination thereof) and test above the legal limit (.08%) or refuse to submit to a test, your license will be suspended starting 46 days after the arrest as the result of an action automatically taken by the Secretary of State. Before the suspension starts, you may request to have a hearing in court, which will stop the suspension. Also, you may be eligible for a Judicial Driving Permit license for work or medical reasons while your license is suspended.

If a person refuses to submit to chemical testing or submits to a test disclosing a blood alcohol concentration of .08 or more, his or her license will be suspended on the 46th day from the date of service with a notice of suspension (also known as the law enforcement sworn report).

The length of suspension is as follows:

1. Three months for "first offenders" (those without prior DUI's in the past five years) who have an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.
2. One year for persons with a BAC of .08 or more who are not first offenders.
3. Six months for "first offenders" who refuse any or all testing; and
4. Two years for those who refuse chemical testing who are not "first offenders."

Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:45:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By pliftkl:

In the two states I've lived in (Texas and Illinois) if you refuse a breathalyzer, you lose your license for 6 months, whether you are convicted or not. In Illinois I had a friend who beat a DUI, but was shocked when he was pulled over weeks later and arrested for driving on a suspended license...



I can still recite the Illinois Warning to Motorist in my sleep, and unless it has changed recently, you have to be convicted of DUI.

Your friend's attorney dropped the ball on the summary suspension.


Half-assed snipped version of Illinois Warning to Motorist (still looking for the "official version") -

From: Illinois DUI Laws

If you are arrested for Driving Under the Influence (alcohol, drugs or combination thereof) and test above the legal limit (.08%) or refuse to submit to a test, your license will be suspended starting 46 days after the arrest as the result of an action automatically taken by the Secretary of State. Before the suspension starts, you may request to have a hearing in court, which will stop the suspension. Also, you may be eligible for a Judicial Driving Permit license for work or medical reasons while your license is suspended.

If a person refuses to submit to chemical testing or submits to a test disclosing a blood alcohol concentration of .08 or more, his or her license will be suspended on the 46th day from the date of service with a notice of suspension (also known as the law enforcement sworn report).

The length of suspension is as follows:

1. Three months for "first offenders" (those without prior DUI's in the past five years) who have an alcohol concentration of .08 or more.
2. One year for persons with a BAC of .08 or more who are not first offenders.
3. Six months for "first offenders" who refuse any or all testing; and
4. Two years for those who refuse chemical testing who are not "first offenders."

Sheep




So no conviction nessisary then... just refuse and you'll be suspended?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:51:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 5:53:37 AM EDT by Johninaustin]
One note. Operating OTHER forms of transportation and refusing will suspend your license as well. (Texas)


Boating While Intoxicated for example, carries the same penalties and procedures as Driving While Intoxicated.

This usually comes as a BIG surprise to those guys with prior DWI's. I've had several enter the Felony range operating a bass boat.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 5:59:10 AM EDT
Here's something I heard about refusing to blow. Basically, you are pleading the 5th, and unless they have solid proof that you were under the influence, a good DUI attorney would get you off the hook. But then again, if they get a search warrant for your blood, breath, or urine while they are detaining you, then you're SOL. However, most states have a law that says if you refuse, there is a mandatory license suspension, which is usually around 12 months. But that usually beats having a DUI on your record. YMMV.

Hypothetical scenario. Let's say you do get pulled over, and you know you're SOL. If you crack open a cold one, right in front of the cop, and slammed it down real quick, wouldn't that negate a breathalyzer test? They wouldn't be able to prove your intoxication level at the time of the traffic stop.

I do NOT condone driving under the influence, I'm just throwing this out there.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:01:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:


If I refused, could he have arrested me and taken the test at the station?



Re-quoted 'cause I forgot to answer this. No one can force you to take a breathalyzer at the station, piss in a cup or give a blood sample. No one, unless your lawyer hands you a court-order from a judge, which isn't going to happen during the initial arrest.

Caveat Emptor: If you REFUSE to take FSTs and the Breath/blood/whizz test at the station AFTER you have been arrested and you are later CONVICTED.....that's when you get hammered with the manditory summary suspension. Some states vary on this, and the manditory summary suspension takes effect at the PC hearing if the arrest is found to be lawful. Without FSTs and/or biological data, a competent DUI attorney should sail through this, unless again of course, he's up against a cop who knows DUI backwards and forwards.

Just about the ONLY time that a biological sample (blood/breath/urine) can be taken from you by force is if the DUI is associated with a fatal/serious injury accident. Even then, it can be quite difficult to do since about 99% of ER staff have no idea as to what the law actually says, and even if you stand there and read it to them out of the statutes, they still look at you like you are the Gestapo. I have had docs and nurses flat out refuse to do it, resulting in a huge pissing match between the PD and hospital.

If it's that bad, odds are you as the intox. driver are probably going to the ER via EMS anyhow and we will just subpeona your records at a later date and ammend the charges.


Sheep



Around these parts, if you refuse, a judge can issue a search warrant and a blood draw can be taken by force. I've seen it. No wreck, injury, or other odd circumstances.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:01:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
So no conviction nessisary then... just refuse and you'll be suspended?



If your lawyer drops the ball and doesn't get a hearing in before the 46th day after the Law Enforcement Sworn Report is served, yes. I'll try an break it down for you:

1. I stop you for what I believe to be DUI, or during the stop I believe that you are DUI.

2. I ask you to perform Field Sobriety Tests. You can refuse. Refusing will not trigger the Manditory Summary Suspension.

3. I believe I have enough probable cause and I arrest you anyway.

4. At the jail, after completeing your booking information, I read you the Illinois Warning to Motorist, which has all sorts of dire warnings it it about revocations and suspensions. I ask you if you understand what I have just read to you. You can say "yes", "no","fuck off" or just stare blankly off into space. Or you can barf in your shoe. The law says I have to read it and ask you if you have understood it. It says nothing about you acknowledging that you understand.

5. I then ask you if you will constent and submit to biological testing (99% of the time the breathalyzer).

A: If you say "Yes" (which, in my frank opinion is stupid), then I fill out the Law Enforcement Sworn Report, listing my PC for the stop etc etc, your personal info, time the Warning to Motorist was read and begin a 20min observation period. This to let any "mouth alcohol" that is present dissapate. You are not allowed to smoke, chew gum, drink eat or suck on a tootsie roll pop during this time. At the end of the 20 minutes, I prep the breathalyzier (Intoximeter 3K in our case) and you blow into the little tube. If you fail to blow correctly, spit into the tube, pinch the tube or otherwise fuck about with the test, I will mark you down as a refusal. About 10 seconds after the test is done, I know if you are "officially" over .08. I mark the test results and the LE Sworn Report, issue you your Manditory Summary Suspension paperwork, a couple of tickets and you follow ing the bond procedure below. If you are smart, you will also be doing the lawyer bit real soon.

B: If you say "No" then I fill out the Law Enforcement Sworn Report, mark "Refused" on it and the Warning to Motorist, issue your your Manditory Summary Suspension paperwork, your citations, you post $300 cash (or $100 + DL) and wander out of the station. If you are smart, you will next call an attorney first thing and get him on the ball about staving off your impending suspension.

If you are not convicted of DUI, you should NOT be driving around on a suspended license, unless your lawyer is a total douche.

Mind you, this is all Illinois-realted here and has nothing whatsoever to do with Arizona, where I now work. the Manditory Summary Suspension (also called Statutory Summary Suspension) is something that a lot of folks dont understand, including guys that don't do DUIs often.


YMMV.



Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:01:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
'Turnaround? We don have to allow you no steenking turnaround!' ~ Federales

The Supreme Court used to rule that such roadblocks were ipso facto unconstitutional.

Now they have accepted the idea that almost anything can be done to protect the Public's safety!

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. I Thessalonians 5:3

Trust me, they shall not escape!



Eric The(ToTheWall !)Hun



This is the core point.

By interfering with the free travel of an allegedly free citizen, I am suspected of criminal activity that I must then prove I am not guilty of.

As an uppity citizen, in a land where the citizen used to be sovereign, I take offense at these checkpoints.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:02:21 AM EDT
DUI Checkpoints: The War on Alcohol continues
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:06:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
DUI Checkpoints: The War on Alcohol continues



I'm going to get sand-bagged by the tee-totaling ARFCOMMERs here but these days, 70% of my "DUI" stops are "Park it and pick the keys up at the district HQ in the AM.", unless the suspect in question is peggin' out my shitbag meter.


Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:14:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
So no conviction nessisary then... just refuse and you'll be suspended?



If your lawyer drops the ball and doesn't get a hearing in before the 46th day after the Law Enforcement Sworn Report is served, yes. I'll try an break it down for you:

1. I stop you for what I believe to be DUI, or during the stop I believe that you are DUI.

2. I ask you to perform Field Sobriety Tests. You can refuse. Refusing will not trigger the Manditory Summary Suspension.

3. I believe I have enough probable cause and I arrest you anyway.

4. At the jail, after completeing your booking information, I read you the Illinois Warning to Motorist, which has all sorts of dire warnings it it about revocations and suspensions. I ask you if you understand what I have just read to you. You can say "yes", "no","fuck off" or just stare blankly off into space. Or you can barf in your shoe. The law says I have to read it and ask you if you have understood it. It says nothing about you acknowledging that you understand.

5. I then ask you if you will constent and submit to biological testing (99% of the time the breathalyzer).

A: If you say "Yes" (which, in my frank opinion is stupid), then I fill out the Law Enforcement Sworn Report, listing my PC for the stop etc etc, your personal info, time the Warning to Motorist was read and begin a 20min observation period. This to let any "mouth alcohol" that is present dissapate. You are not allowed to smoke, chew gum, drink eat or suck on a tootsie roll pop during this time. At the end of the 20 minutes, I prep the breathalyzier (Intoximeter 3K in our case) and you blow into the little tube. If you fail to blow correctly, spit into the tube, pinch the tube or otherwise fuck about with the test, I will mark you down as a refusal. About 10 seconds after the test is done, I know if you are "officially" over .08. I mark the test results and the LE Sworn Report, issue you your Manditory Summary Suspension paperwork, a couple of tickets and you follow ing the bond procedure below. If you are smart, you will also be doing the lawyer bit real soon.

B: If you say "No" then I fill out the Law Enforcement Sworn Report, mark "Refused" on it and the Warning to Motorist, issue your your Manditory Summary Suspension paperwork, your citations, you post $300 cash (or $100 + DL) and wander out of the station. If you are smart, you will next call an attorney first thing and get him on the ball about staving off your impending suspension.

If you are not convicted of DUI, you should NOT be driving around on a suspended license, unless your lawyer is a total douche.

Mind you, this is all Illinois-realted here and has nothing whatsoever to do with Arizona, where I now work. the Manditory Summary Suspension (also called Statutory Summary Suspension) is something that a lot of folks dont understand, including guys that don't do DUIs often.


YMMV.



Sheep



Thanks! Good to know how it all operates. Oh, and I don't drink... at all... so my only concern is what my rights are if stopped.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:18:43 AM EDT
Semp...I am a whiny baby?

You should grow up and maybe someday you will realize that this is an infringement on your rights afforded by the Constitution.

In the mean time follow your own advice and STFU. Are you a troll for the DU crowd?

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:20:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
DUI Checkpoints: The War on Alcohol continues



I'm going to get sand-bagged by the tee-totaling ARFCOMMERs here but these days, 70% of my "DUI" stops are "Park it and pick the keys up at the district HQ in the AM.", unless the suspect in question is peggin' out my shitbag meter.


Sheep



Damn! You mean you exercise....discretion? How novel.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:33:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
DUI Checkpoints: The War on Alcohol continues



I'm going to get sand-bagged by the tee-totaling ARFCOMMERs here but these days, 70% of my "DUI" stops are "Park it and pick the keys up at the district HQ in the AM.", unless the suspect in question is peggin' out my shitbag meter.


Sheep




Damn! That's pretty decent of you. I'll bet you got "ran" out of Ill. for not being a hardnosed JBT, huh?

I remember the days when we were told "I think you boys had better go home." And you just knew it was a veiled threat with dire consequenses if you didn't and didn't stay there the rest of the night.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:42:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:
A question for any police officers on the site regarding procedures for DUI checkpoints.

A little long winded, but the question is. They have to allow you a turnround or an "out" so you don't have to run the gauntlet, but are the cops allowed to wait at that relief point? It seems to me that they would not be and it would fall into some kind of entrapment scenario.

Any one in the know have any clarifications?

Thanks ....Rick




I used to go through quite a few DUI checkpoints due to the hours I worked. If you turned off you were pulled over, end of story probable cause or not. I maintain my vehicles, so don't have any equipment issues. I was given a variety of reasons for being pulled over, from it didn't look like I had my turn signal on a sufficient distance from where I turned to my license plate "looking" like it was hanging lower then it should. Basically just .....<rumblings of a police state>.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Retched_Rick:
Semp...I am a whiny baby?

You should grow up and maybe someday you will realize that this is an infringement on your rights afforded by the Constitution.

In the mean time follow your own advice and STFU. Are you a troll for the DU crowd?




I think he meant to add a . I was going to ask if they shot your dog?, etc.

We have them here, 'tho I've never been stopped. I don't drink and drive, so no big deal. I'll blow until the sheep come out of the meadow. If they can thin out the lads into their 2nd bottle of tequila more power to them. We just initiated stops for DL/proof of Insurance. No havee no drivee. First outing the got 20 people off the road who didn't have one or both. Maybe they got one who would have run into me and boogied. Or killed one of my family. Driving is a privilege, not a right. As long as things are carried out by the laws on the books, I'm all for it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:48:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Damn! That's pretty decent of you. I'll bet you got "ran" out of Ill. for not being a hardnosed JBT, huh?




I was trained by a crusty old fart who held the exhalted rank of "patrolman" in the Chicago Police Department for nearly 37 years before he pulled the pin.

Wonder of wonders, we'd actaully park the squad and walk a footbeat. He's the one who taught me how to properly twirl a hickory nightstick. Upon completetion of FTO, he presented me with a hand-turned Cocobolo night stick, engraved with my name, badge # and class # number on it and a mini, silver CPD star set the the base of the grip. Sadly, I was the last recruit to get one as a result of training under him. He still makes them for new coppers though, if they know where to find him.

He knew everyone's name and expected me to know them as well. He'd stop and talk to people on stoops and on corners. He always knew who'd been on a winning streak in the local dice tourney.

He was a cop from a different era. He told me that respect and honor were only implied by the uniform, not automatically earned.

The first thing he ever said to me was:

"Treat everyone with the same amount of respect as you give your momma. When they get froggy, knock the shit out of them."

Not many cops get trained like that these days.



Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 6:51:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CWO:
Every DUI checkpoint that I have seen has police stationed on the "escape" avenues once you see it or the signs. They do that because basicly the only folks that will turn and avoid it are the exact same people they are looking for for. Seems like common sense to me.

Enough people die on the road every year due to drunk drivers (who statistically are repetitive drunk drivers) that something has to be done to curb the deaths. The police I have encountered have been professional and my delay was minimal. I'm not nuts about such checkpoints but I suppose its the price we pay for the many idiots that drink and drive and couldn't care less about the safety of others.

CWO



Well, that's wrong. I haven't had a drink since one glass of champagne at New Years -- and that's about all I ever drink. My total alcohol consumption wouldn't amount to one bottle of wine per year.

But I avoid sobriety checkpoints because:

1) They are a waste of time for me and do nothing but slow me down wherever I was going.

2) A cop pulling you over for anything cannot be considered your friend. 9 times out of 10 they are looking to write you a ticket for something.

3) I have a general feeling that cops ought to leave the innocent people alone. I don't agree with the concept that cops ought to inconvenience 99 innocent people to get the one guilty party.

4) The whole thing strikes me as tremendously inefficient -- especially in areas where the traffic flow wasn't all that great, anyway. The last one they did in my area had a waitiing line at least a quarter of a mile long. Hmmmm, I wonder how many people got pulled over because they just got tired of waiting and took another route.

5) Some cops (not all) are just plain dicks who will use any excuse to throw their weight around and screw with people. I know people who stood by the side of the road and got their cars tossed for no good reason. Such cops may be a minority, but I would like to avoid them, however few in number they may be.

6) Statements like "I suppose it's the price we pay" sound to me like those people who would accept fascism because "it makes the streets safer". Sorry, but I just don't agree with giving up any freedoms unless you can show me that it is
a) absolutely necessary and
b) the best approach to the problem.

Of course, whenever people come up with these ideas, they never consider whether it is necessary or the best approach to the problem. Has anyone ever done any actual scientific studies to determine whether sobriety checkpoints are either necessary or the best approach to the problem? No? I didn't think so.

Drunk drivers are some of my least favorite people in the world (as I have told my own family members when they had one too many to be safe on the road) but that doesn't mean that I agree with house-to-house searches or any other blanket method of searching the general public to find them.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:00:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

1) They are a waste of time for me and do nothing but slow me down wherever I was going.



Being in a wreck with a drunk will really slow you down. Maybe forever.


2) A cop pulling you over for anything cannot be considered your friend. 9 times out of 10 they are looking to write you a ticket for something.


If they have enough RS to pull you over, of course you face the prospect of being cited.


3) I have a general feeling that cops ought to leave the innocent people alone. I don't agree with the concept that cops ought to inconvenience 99 innocent people to get the one guilty party.

Try one out of ten drivers on the road a weekend during evening hours.


4) The whole thing strikes me as tremendously inefficient -- especially in areas where the traffic flow wasn't all that great, anyway. The last one they did in my area had a waitiing line at least a quarter of a mile long. Hmmmm, I wonder how many people got pulled over because they just got tired of waiting and took another route.


I've never seen a line a mile long created by a checkpoint.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:01:36 AM EDT


Strange. I work mids and was driving to work on a back road on a Tuesday night and ran into one set on a freeway overpass. I slowed down and drove right through while the cop was looking over the bridge at the traffic on the freeway. (Or maybe he was pissing on them as they went by) He never even turned around to look at me.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:03:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:

Originally Posted By Bumblebee_Bob:
Damn! That's pretty decent of you. I'll bet you got "ran" out of Ill. for not being a hardnosed JBT, huh?




I was trained by a crusty old fart who held the exhalted rank of "patrolman" in the Chicago Police Department for nearly 37 years before he pulled the pin.

Wonder of wonders, we'd actaully park the squad and walk a footbeat. He's the one who taught me how to properly twirl a hickory nightstick. Upon completetion of FTO, he presented me with a hand-turned Cocobolo night stick, engraved with my name, badge # and class # number on it and a mini, silver CPD star set the the base of the grip. Sadly, I was the last recruit to get one as a result of training under him. He still makes them for new coppers though, if they know where to find him.

He knew everyone's name and expected me to know them as well. He'd stop and talk to people on stoops and on corners. He always knew who'd been on a winning streak in the local dice tourney.

He was a cop from a different era. He told me that respect and honor were only implied by the uniform, not automatically earned.

The first thing he ever said to me was:

"Treat everyone with the same amount of respect as you give your momma. When they get froggy, knock the shit out of them."

Not many cops get trained like that these days.



Sheep



Hot Damn!! He sounds like one heck of a gentleman! One you'ld really like to know and share a pint with.

I agree with him regarding respect. The older generation gave the people respect, re: "Treat everyone with the same amount of respect as you give your momma", and they got tons in return. Now-a-days the younger cops are all skin headed "punks" demanding "respect my authority". (or however the South Park charcter says it. ) But so few of them give any respect to others. They don't seem to have learned that authority is earned, not demanded.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:15:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

I've never seen a line a mile long created by a checkpoint.




So? I've never seen a serial killer in my home so they don't exist!!!!

An elderly friend of the family spent over 3 hours trying to get to his home about 35mins away after they setup a checkpoint after a sporting event. Finally got home at 3am. But what's a little wait though.

Blanket dragnets to search for offenders should not be tolerated, and if we believed in the principles we were founded on (even when they make things harder), we wouldn't.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:17:03 AM EDT
Hey- I have an idea- Don't drink and drive!
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:20:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
I thought refusing a field sobriety test would land you in all kinds of hot water that was basically equivalent to getting a DUI.

At the very least, your license would be suspended, and your insurance rates would shoot up, I thought.


Nope.

'Hit the ground and give me 20, the cop says.....

Do you have to comply and do 20 pushups?

Nope.

This is NOT a 'police state.'

Yet.

Eric The(ButSomeAreWorkingOnItFeverishly)Hun




I think in NJ it used to be if you refused a breathalizer, your lisence was suspended for 6 months.
but this is just a dim memory.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:22:11 AM EDT

1) They are a waste of time for me

Agreed. The last one I suffered through took over two hours.

Now imagine trying to run a business that depends on picking-up deposits or delivering packages on a schedule when you sometimes have mutli-hour waits due to those random searches. My company lost about 1/3 of our customers in a three month period where the local police setup these random checks on the street in front of and the one beside our office. They only stopped after I called in favors with a former state senator, a former mayor, the uniformed patrol captain, and a retired state supreme court justice begging them to stop doing their searches so close to our office. If the police hadn't stopped delaying our trucks, we would have been out of business within a few months after they started their neighborhood harassment.z
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:28:04 AM EDT
...I can smell it coming.





Sheep
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:30:26 AM EDT
checkpoints are bullshit. It's a statistical fact that fatalities are mostly caused by people who are blowing twice the limit. Cops should out on the road looking for those people.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:32:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:33:06 AM EDT by LPDtactical]

Originally Posted By scoutabout:
checkpoints are bullshit. It's a statistical fact that fatalities are mostly caused by people who are blowing twice the limit. Cops should out on the road looking for those people.





Edit: nevermind I'm not even getting in this thread.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:36:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
Hey- I have an idea- Don't drink and drive!



Well, I never have -- so they can leave me the fuck alone, OK?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:42:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

1) They are a waste of time for me and do nothing but slow me down wherever I was going.



Being in a wreck with a drunk will really slow you down. Maybe forever.



Been there, done that. I still feel the same way.



2) A cop pulling you over for anything cannot be considered your friend. 9 times out of 10 they are looking to write you a ticket for something.


If they have enough RS to pull you over, of course you face the prospect of being cited.



Just note as a general rule that anyone looking to cause you any legal issues, for any reason, is not your friend. Not that they ever had RS to pull me over for DUI, anyway.



3) I have a general feeling that cops ought to leave the innocent people alone. I don't agree with the concept that cops ought to inconvenience 99 innocent people to get the one guilty party.

Try one out of ten drivers on the road a weekend during evening hours.



So if I suspect that there is one criminal on your block can I search your house?



4) The whole thing strikes me as tremendously inefficient -- especially in areas where the traffic flow wasn't all that great, anyway. The last one they did in my area had a waitiing line at least a quarter of a mile long. Hmmmm, I wonder how many people got pulled over because they just got tired of waiting and took another route.


I've never seen a line a mile long created by a checkpoint.



There are lots of things you have never seen -- including what I wrote above. Note the "quarter of a mile" in what I wrote.

But there is a good reason why you will never see a mile long line. So many people will be pissed off that they will be pulling out of line before it ever gets that long.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:46:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Being in a wreck with a drunk will really slow you down. Maybe forever.



Just for the record, I notice that you didn't bother to address my question of whether these stops were a) necesssary or b) the best way to solve the problem.

Until you can come up with some real evidence on that, your argument above means nothing. Do you have any evidence that these DUI checkpoints materially reduce the possibility that I will be hit by a drunk driver? Do you have any evidence that they are the most effective means of reducing that possibility?

No? I didn't think so.

Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:46:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/19/2005 7:51:00 AM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:


Hypothetical scenario. Let's say you do get pulled over, and you know you're SOL. If you crack open a cold one, right in front of the cop, and slammed it down real quick, wouldn't that negate a breathalyzer test? They wouldn't be able to prove your intoxication level at the time of the traffic stop.

I do NOT condone driving under the influence, I'm just throwing this out there.



I'll answer this, since I actually had this happen. A frat boy and junior year law student.

He was convicted. I was able to show that the one Fosters he drank (on video, the jury LOVED it and actually laughed.) was not the cause of his .26 BAC, and was certainly not the cause of the 7 minutes of of his driving on tape before I stopped him. Of course, being an arrogant ass on the video and witness stand certainly didn't help. Would YOU call the judge/jury on your case stupid motherfuckers?

Your hypothetical does not negate the actual breath test. After all, you can drink right up to the minute of the stop. (lots of folks do)
There is an observation and testing period, plus the time it takes you to get to the testing station. In my nitwit's case this came to about 45 minutes. Plenty of time for that beer to ADD to his intoxication level.

Lots of folks don't understand the process. It's not the number on the breathalyzer that gets you convicted. It's the totality of the interaction. Slurred speech, breath that could ignite, , inability to balance, mental confusion, (I wish someone WOULD hand me naughty pictures of their wife) The BAC reading is actually a minor part of it all, though lawyers usually try to play around with it because the general public does not know very much about the science involved.

That's why I still gain convictions on refusals. Video is a great tool. Your BAC might be marginal, or even under. But if the video shows you pissing during the SFST, or you claim to be unable to do something BECAUSE "I'm too drunk to do that" The jury is going to find you guilty.

My most famous DWI blew a .07. This woman fell out of the car before I even approached and screamed "rape!!" during the arrest.
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:48:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pistonman:
Hey- I have an idea- Don't drink and drive!



Ohhh..... There it is!! Always has to one of these. So will me not drinking (which I don't... at all) and driving prevent me from being delayed at checkpoints and stopped for no reason if I choose to go around one? Will it? Huh?
Link Posted: 9/19/2005 7:51:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SheepDog_556:
...I can smell it coming.


i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Shatner556/28886139.jpg


Sheep



I'll try to keep it down. I hate to see it go off the deep end.
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